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Roadmap Update - 15th June 2021

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Jun 15, 2021.

  1. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I think the answer to this lays in a huge back catalogue. Yes you may get six or seven things with a DLC, but they're things which were made a few years back so nobody cares much any more
    In TSW they do seem to be remaking the same (or very similar) thing time and again and if they're using their train artists for every edition of the electrostar I can see why we don't have what I would consider "british staples" such as class 153/156/158/170 etc etc
     
  2. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    That could happen to be honest. Heck, the motor sounds on the m7 weren´t even fixed even though the update for lirr was supposed to be fixed. DTG know how to make bugs but can´t fix them in a quick amount of time resulting in more work to be done just to fix issues that coulde been prevented prior to release. It is better to take time to fix an issue then to just rush out an update that doesn´t fix the main issue though.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
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  3. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Rush hour could be released in September since autumn doesn´t start until September 22. The summer season starts on June 20 and ends on September 22.
     
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  4. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    They changed that in the UK years back so each season starts on the 1st, and I am going back to previous years where it was always late August release (for example TSW2 was August 20th)
     
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  5. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but they did not finish fixing the problems with the previous UE version update and now they are adding another UE version update on top of that... The number of DLCs keeps increasing.

    Do you see where this is going?
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2021
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  6. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    Engine updates when you haven't finished the last one...hmmm. I wonder what will happen if there are DLCs which cannot be played on day 1 of rush hour. The obvious thing would be to launch rush hour routes but not launch the core update, meaning only those 3 routes are running in 4.26. Very unclear if this is possible though. If it isn't they might be stuck.
     
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  7. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    I do not think this is an option.
     
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  8. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I understand this but also understand the GWE route has so much potential but is being ignored by DTG so much so there is only a third of the route to play. IMO it should be shown the respect it deserves, Paddington to Cardiff.

    The roadmap for me was disappointing. It all seems nowadays 'we have fixed the problem but can't release it', Great. They just release Cathcart Circle where you cannot see at night and they are not fixing it as a prority. No-one wants things rushed but when there are updates that are over 6 months old, some of which have supposedly been fixed, which still haven't been fixed it starts to wear a bit thin no?

    I said before GCC that I was looking forward to the 313 and won't buy anything untill that gets released and I am sticking to it and as I'm playing less and less TSW2 these days I can wait. I'm still waiting for Raildriver support for GWE, HST and the 166. And now they have said they are going to release updates at the time with Rush Hour or afterwards. I'm not planning on getting Rush Hour so will these updates be affected by that and if not why don't you release the updates now with thee core update?
     
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  9. RailRoadEngineer

    RailRoadEngineer Member

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    show me some news on editor or it is dead forever?
     
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  10. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Unless anything gets announced, GWE will always be set in that period so there’s not much you can do about that.

    Paddington to Cardiff? Please tell me you’re joking because there’s no way DTG can build such a long route like that without several extensions, being sold separately. Even if they did do that, it wouldn’t happen for years.

    I think you just have to bite the bullet and accept GWE will never change. You’ve just got to hope DTG build another part of the GWML, in a more modern period.
     
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  11. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    It’s been dead for a while now. It’s officially not happening.
     
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  12. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    I’m not even sure that DTG will ever do an extension they always talked about it but nothing more and yeah forget about any update on GWE it will stays in its state since day one as much as people has to forgot and stop asking for the electrification of Peninsula Corridor
     
  13. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I'm under no illusions that DTG will actually make a route people will like. You think I'm joking? DTG have said many times they are open to doing long routes if they are interesting, even Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads would be good, wasn't that in TS1?, all basically in a straight line to boot. Unless of course DTG is saying everything past Reading is not interesting? They would have to redo the route of course and like I said I highly doubt they will do that.

    You seem to think there is nothing you can do with how the GWE is set at the moment, on my route I have all the overhead cables removed, weathered track, old posters ETC even got the all Blue 101 in the Diesels pack. So there are limited things you can do thanks to mods.
     
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  14. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it is quite that blue and red, or "clear cut", "non-discretionary" or whatever the current politically correct phrase is....:

    In general, I'd agree with you on postponing major development as a long-ranging policy (example: building out the remaining two-thirds of Oakville).... but not immediate fixes for Cathcart, which is a very recent DLC ......(but of course, *cough* ..... the more the hot-fixes for audio and train lighting are stalled for Cathcart, *cough* .. the "less recent" they become.......).

    Here is another way to look at it...... what happens if.......:

    1. Cane Creek is released before Rush Hour; and,
    2 Cane Creek is launched with lots of vicious game-breaking bugs that should be hot-fixed.....?

    Are you saying that your take from the stream is that Cane Creek would be frozen for fixing immediately after release, and that any issues would be taken across to 4.26, and then only fixed long after Rush Hour is released..... say, when it hits the Preservation cycle in a few years....?

    Is this a TSW 2020 to TSW 2 moment....? Are our expectations being "managed"....?

    So, if something like Cement Circle occurs in Cane Creek, then anyone buying Cane Creek might have to wait for years for it to get it fixed, with the possible threat that it might never ever get fixed, because, you know.... Cane Creek is a "pre 4.26" DLC".....................?
     
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  15. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    The download page for Unreal Engine is here:

    https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/download

    You can make anything you want with it. You don't even need to give Epic any royalties until you have made your first $1 million of sales.

    If you are hoping for Dovetail to launch an Unreal Engine Editor for TSW........ then you will have to wait a bit longer....... until they buy-out Epic.... so they just need to make about $30 billion profit from TSW, and then you'll get the Editor. You never know, it might happen.... because everyone loves trains, right...? ;-)
     
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  16. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Adam stated on the roadmap (a few times actaully) that everything has already been rebaked, so any new fixes will be in 4.26

    Yes, but then Cane Creek preview has been dropped this week, so they know there ARE bugs there, but we also now know that all 3rd party stuff will need rebaking too so... read into that what you will. I guess we find out what's going on with 3rd party DLC next roadmap

    I don't think this can be the case.
    What's more likely the case is it'll be released in 07/21, then rebaked in 08/21 possibly with a whole new set of bugs and issues...

    But then we don't know about the incremental update possibilities that Adam spoke about so who knows we may be able to get one line of code fixed without megabytes of download...

    Who has expectations nowadays? I mean really...
     
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  17. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Okay - this is not my interpretation, because not even I am that cynical......... (although I might well be wrong to be more trusting and hopeful........ I genuinely think that DTG has the capacity to learn.... and surely they have some organisational memory.....?).

    Even though it happened with Cement Circle, I cannot believe that DTG would release Cane Creek, and in the event that it is seriously bugged, leave it frozen in a broken state until long after Rush Hour releases..... Surely they wouldn't do something like that again.....?

    Surely DTG have left some resource available to fix the issues on Cathcart now.... and have contingency available for Cane Creek....? How could they expect anyone to buy Cane Creek, say, on pre-order, if people know that the 4.26 upgrade might seriously stuff them up....? Perhaps all DLCs that are released between TSW versions should be avoided like the plague.... if they always fall into this "version gap"....?
     
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  18. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Cement Circle on TSW2020 was a bit of a unique case. This was a game breaking bug on a piece of software that was no longer being supported
    And DTG said so
    Repeatedly...
    Then because people complained they went back and found a botch solution
    I believe TSW2 cement circle WAS fixed (even if not that quickly) which did leave TSW2020 standing

    That's not the case here. TSW2 will still be TSW2 in October, so everything that works NOW will work THEN (to whatever extent (cynical I know)) and will be supported into the future.
     
  19. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    GCC will already be on route to RH. so any resource would be better used for that

    That's one way of looking at it, but then that's what happens in this form of software. But then if you look at other software with DLC you get big releases with no updates in between and the updates basically override or supersede all that come before it. In TSW2 each route is almost standalone and anything they do to SEHS doesn't effect ECW until Adam's team go and put that change IN to ECW

    Of course assets work slightly differently, but even there they're bound to the route so changes to any assets mean an update to the route involved.

    I think people will have to think about buying anything between Easter and Summer if they feel bugs may not be addressed between those dates
     
  20. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Okay... wow... that is actually what you are saying.........

    So - DLCs that launch before new versions are basicaly zombie DLCs.... Cathcart and Cane Creek are zombie "fire and forget" DLCs.... although they might be "remembered" by Adam's team in a few years.... but not if TSW 3 comes first....

    So, if what you are saying is correct - then..... in that case I completely reverse my strong recommendation that people should buy Cathcart Circle - it should now be absolutely avoided, because there is a high chance that the audio and lighting problems in Cathcart will never ever be fixed, because the DLC is potentially already obsolete.

    And Cane Creek should be avoided at all costs, because, in essence, it could become a "supposedly unsupported" DLC (but funnily enough, a DLC that will remain on sale....).... as it could well become obsolete before it is even released......

    Scary stuff. Maybe someone from DTG would like to clarify exactly where people stand with Cathcart Circle and Cane Creek, without using any weasel words or pseudo communitying speak.... just answering the following questions:

    1. Will Cathcart Circle be patched before Rush Hour releases...? YES/NO

    2. Will Cane Creek receive a patch, if needed (after it has been tested by the Community), before Rush Hour releases....? YES/NO
     
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  21. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    not really.. depends on how Adam's team works going forward. Hopefully the "zombie" here will be how updates have worked in 2021 because it's been appalling, with comments on roadmap streams saying what's finished and what's ready for release, then nothing being released for months on end (or then being told after six months of assurances something's fixed being told that Lewes is missing)

    Or... the lighting and sound issues could be core issues which get fixed in the annual update anyway, and we have no details as to what's in the annual update at all EXCEPT for the update to UE4.26
    so rather than chucking out the baby, the pram, the sweeties and everything else...
    Take a deep breath, realise that you're paying for what exists when you buy the product and anything that comes after is a bonus.
    And if you want to talk about obsolete DLC look at GWE... At least with Cathcart there is little to BE updated until they release other EMUs that worked in the area. Fixing lighting and sound isn't what I would call an update, but the PIS works (in a fashion), there are no level crossings so the only other things to fiddle with would be the duff signalling setup, but that's a core issue so again, might get sorted by the core update anyway

    Answers to your questions :
    1 - NO
    2 - NO
    Any patches or changes that aren't day one will be after RH, subject to what they say on the RH:RM in two weeks about third party revisions, because it may well be that no fixes are going to happen on third party anyway
     
  22. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    So, as a representative of DTG (or as someone that is in a position to know), are you saying that:

    1. Will Cathcart Circle be patched before Rush Hour releases...? NO

    2. Will Cane Creek receive a patch, if needed (after it has been tested by the Community), before Rush Hour releases....? NO

    So - with the information at your disposal, are you confirming, on behalf of DTG, that Cane Creek will not get any absolutely necessary (if necessary) patches after it is released, until after Rush Hour is released, and even then it is just a maybe.....?
     
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  23. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    you know I don't represent DTG (or the company who's actually making the DLC), bu going by what they said on the stream on Tuesday I would say it's a no
     
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  24. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    I don't know who you are, or what your relationship is with DTG - I think you have said that you were networked with their beta play-testing team in the past......? So you might welll have access to information that others don't. I dunno. When I pointed a pair of questions at DTG for DTG to answer, you immediately and confidently answered them ..... but now it is looking more like an opinion than an official position. Fair enough....

    So, regarding the questions on patches for current DLCs, before Rush Hour (and UE 4.26) are released, then perhaps DTG Natster could provide a response on behalf of DTG. It's a fairly big issue.

    1. Will Cathcart Circle be patched before Rush Hour releases...? YES/NO

    2. Will Cane Creek receive a patch, if needed (after it has been tested by the Community), before Rush Hour releases....? YES/NO
     
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  25. tibomatthijs

    tibomatthijs Active Member

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    looking forward to that, from the WIP it looks already so good! Good job :)
     
  26. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Nope, just some grunt on the forums...
     
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  27. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    When was the last time any DLC received a Month One patch? DTG simply don't do that, unless a bug is absolutely game-breaking (in the literal sense, not the drama-queeny sense in which "unplayble" is too often used on these forums).
     
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  28. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    I understood them as "no standalone updates before Rush Hour but (a lot?) of fixes already implemented then".
     
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  29. tibomatthijs

    tibomatthijs Active Member

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    they are trying to group everything, thats why it takes that long
     
  30. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    That is the impression I had from the stream too.
     
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  31. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    That's the way I understood the stream.
     
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  32. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    What I took away from the stream is that many Preserved Collection routes have already been ported to UE 4.26, or are in the process of being ported, and that means that the code is necessarily locked in until after they are all released together with the summer update. They can't make changes to the existing UE 4.24 builds between now and then, without having to re-port the revised versions. However, the forthcoming updated DLCs include all of the fixes that Adam's team have done since the cycle began.
     
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  33. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    To clarify, I don't mean they're not WORKING on releases, just that we won't see them until after 4.26 is released
     
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  34. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    This did make me laugh...! Thank you...!

    So, how's the Bakerloo Line for you at the moment.... the route that you yourself said, quite a few times, is...., um.... "completely unplayable"....? LOL.... ;-)
     
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  35. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    So, um... is Cane Creek expected to release before or after Rush Hour.... and what version of UE will it be released under.... do you think.....?
     
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  36. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    I just wonder about all the testing QA are going to be doing between now and the Rush Hour releases.

    Presumably:
    • ALL the preserved collection/released routes to ensure they are baked correctly and nothing is seriously broken on 4.26.
    • The three new rush hour routes.
    • The core TSW 2 update.
    • ALL the preserved collection/released routes to ensure they work properly within the next generation console versions of the game.
    This is a massive list of tasks that’ll only get bigger with each engine upgrade.

    What could possibly go wrong?

    :o:o:o:o
     
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  37. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I can't drive Bakerloo the way I would prefer (and I think realistic) without encountering the train-killing bug. I can however drive it by pretending I'm a sadist who likes injuring his passengers. That one is therefore a borderline case, but from DTG it isn't "game-breaking", since it can be played in the most literal sense. A closer case would be the Clinchfield Journey service in the snow, which can be just barely played, if one doesn't mind creeping at half a mile an hour for 45 minutes or so. Yet DTG haven't fixed that either, nor the shunting jobs in pitch darkness.
     
  38. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I have a notion that the notorious QA logjam resulted in part from testing all the routes which have already been ported to 4.26. This apparently has been going on since before Rush Hour was announced.
     
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  39. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    Aaaaah, so you've never been on the London Underground in real life then.....? ;-)

    (Actually - the tube is nowhere near as harsh to ride on as the Paris or Rome metros, in my experience.....)
     
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  40. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    If it's released before RH, 4.23 but then will have to undergo rebaking as per the roadmap streams

    Mine too. I mean it CAN be a throw about ride, but that's usually when there are holdups and you're constantly stop starting. The DLR however... smooth as
     
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  41. EfficientAMV10

    EfficientAMV10 New Member

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    When is Cane Creek coming out? im excited
     
  42. tibomatthijs

    tibomatthijs Active Member

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    (problly) this Thursday 24th June
     
  43. tibomatthijs

    tibomatthijs Active Member

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    they've hired a few new people to work in QA, and they are already testing Rush Hour (passengers) and Cane Creek is is almost done too, and om Rush Hour there are a lot of people (i think the whole TSW crew) is working on that so i think there won't be a lot of bugs etc
     
  44. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Seems unlikely, as the preview stream was delayed. I'd say another week or two before we see Cane Creek
     
  45. 59321747

    59321747 Active Member

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    It looks like it will be released in July
     
  46. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    do they? What's your source?
     
  47. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    So Cane Creek must be coming after UE 4.26 then, and after Rush Hour, or alongside it. Because.... it would take an impossibly large amount of work ro convert Cane Creek 4.23 to Cane Creek 4.26, right......?

    And in any case, isn't there some sort of undefined moratorium on releasing anything in UE 4.23, which somehow prevents Cathcart Circle from being patched now.... isn't that the word on the street......?

    But, whatever happens, I am sure that it will be wonderful.
     
  48. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Highly unlikely to release on the 24th, more likely to release July 8th or 15th.
     
  49. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Nobody has said how much work is involved in rebaking (or fixing after that's done). I would presume such things will be addressed in the upcoming RH roadmap streams (which I am surprised Adam won't be involved in given the almost 30 DLC he's moving over as part of the update but what do I know?)

    Not undefined. Watch the roadmap stream from Tuesday just gone
     
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  50. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

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    I don't recall seeing a release date for Rush Hour.
     

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