Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Nov 24, 2020.
The specialist spoke
Yeah for routes it makes sense because you're receiving a route+locos. But for loco add-ons when necessary like the 101, I find they should be detached from routes. With the 182 and 155 it's okay, because they only substitute in for pre-existing services on other routes, but the 101 will add new layers to other routes. That's the difference.
Perhaps the DTL team should worry about getting DTL working first before adding other features.
Anyway, are you seriously suggesting that they could offer nothing to prospective work on the core of the game? Even if it’s not their specialist area I’m sure they would be able to contribute significantly.
It’s a question of priorities. Sorting out long standing, immersion breaking, graphical problems should be a big one. Mastery is not.
No the reason is the community complained that the BR1010 does not normally run on SKA, (or was it HMA?) so they changed it. HRR definitely will be a bit more interesting in near future....
It seems the core really only gets a ‘proper’ update annually. So when a big (potentially payware) update comes out. That’s a long time to wait for improvements to the core engine.
As mentioned, some of these issues have been here from the launch of TSW, and it really isn’t acceptable. Yesterday, in the livestream, Sam bought up the question of “why can’t you just increase the shadow draw distance” and Adam shot that question down pretty quickly by saying “hmm, it’s complicated, there’s a lot of things to consider.”
Please tell me what things need to be considered? TSW’s ‘ultra’ settings are an embarrassment without manually changing the ini values. Obvious popping a scenery (specifically trees), textures not loading in fully unless you’re right up close to them, track sleepers drawing out right in front of you etc. The list goes on.
The anti-aliasing flickering gives a poor experience too. Unless you turn up your screen percentage, which will tank your FPS, you’re stuck with it. I’ve seen other games utilise UE4 and they don’t have half these anti aliasing flickering issues. Why does TSW fare so badly?
Finally, the lighting. After all these years, why can we still not have a decent night time driving experience? Night time trains glow, but towns and cities sit in darkness. Ironic much?
For the previous roadmap update I commented that fixing issue sis going to slow. This roadmap confirms that.Even for Sandpatch not all issues are ready for release yet.
As far as I hear DTG representatives say, is that a number of fixes are done, but waiting somewhere in the release queue. I really wish DTG makes improving the release process and download size top priority. If releases are easier, you can make them smaller, less risky to break things and it will be far easier to manage the process. I know from experience. In the company where I worked we changed a release process form a painful monthly procedure on Sunday morning to something that can be done daily if needed without disturbing anyone. Toe be honest, it took two years of development to make this possible, including an automated approval process.
Amen. My job is very complex and can be complicated and mentally taxing as hell sometimes but it’s my job, and I get on with it to the best of my ability.
I like what DTG are doing but I really do question their priorities.
We, the customers, don’t care if it’s complicated or difficult. We see many many other games that don’t suffer these issues, and we want to see some progress in this regard.
Please raise these issues in your priority list. It is far more important than finally fixing a scenario that was released with the original CSX 4 years ago and most people have long since forgotten about.
It was originally down as being for SKA, where it doesn't run. It does run on Munich-Augsburg, so I am really hoping it does add a layer to add some intercity services for this route. It would make HRR better, but I'm not sure the IC services that the DB BR 101 does stop at Bochum, so would it just be a Essen-Duisburg run? That's very short.
Well, I don't want to be a negative nancy but technically we don't know whether it will add layers to other routes. For all we know it may just have services on HRR and that's it. I hope it's not the case but it's possible.
I checked on the Bochum Hauptbahnhof Wikipedia page and it lists the intercity lines 30, 32 and 55 which according to that page all three stop in Bochum Essen and Duisburg.
This is basically my custom Ice scenario. It is about 30 minutes per run. Not very long, but it opens up options for more available stations and thus more traffic which could be really nice.
München has three IC lines that stop at München and Augsburg.
Wuppertal has two lines that stop at Wuppertal Hauptbahnhof and Hagen.
I guess the HMA runs would not differ as much from ice runs, but it would be nice to have an express route for RRO.
There is no base game. Knowing DTGs history with Train Simulator, the package of routes available changes every year. So while Köln-Aachen might be in the standard edition you can buy now, in a year that will have changed. Similarly how TSW started out with a bundle with CSX:HH + GWE + RT, and then got changed to CSX:HH + LIRR + MSB + NTP in the current TSW2020 package.
So while you extra DLC is required for those people who've bought the current TSW2 package, everyone who jumps in next or later, will need to buy Köln-Aachen as an extra DLC in order to use the loco.
It would definitely make HRR nicer. I would hope it gets layers for both HMA and RRO as well. Maybe they could even add some ICE layers for HRR and RRO at the same time the 101 gets released.
Before any ICE or IC goes on RRO, the gradients need some smoothening. That would be a bumpy ride.
I agree, that takes time and shouldn't be the case. Also we should be allowed to do return journeys in scenario planner. Like if i made a scenario for the lirr from hempstead to penn station, i should be able to do the return journey.
Well it actually makes sense because a loco add on may only run on that specific route in real life and not on another route.
Not sure about Ray Tracing, that tech is still young and requires a lot of power. I’m cool with the game not having Ray Tracing in terms of reflections, but Ray-Traced shadows would be great.
It seems like we’re going to be waiting a while for any big graphical improvements. They’re still focused on making the game work on last-gen consoles, which is a good thing, but let’s be honest, in 1 and a half - 2 years, the old consoles will be phased out, and TSW will still be running with old architecture. They continue to say that they aren’t working on them to make any improvements, but when will they start?
Next year? The year after? The longer they wait to make Next-Gen upgrades to the next Gen consoles, the longer the PC version and the base game will stay in the past. Why’s this? Because they don’t want to have the console and PC versions differ from each other in any way.
TSW is basically a console game ported to PC, not the other way around. Whatever they do, relies on what power the consoles have. Only recently have they started to change that, like the layers issue with HMA. But now that they have the opportunity to make a big leap with all platforms, they decide not to take it.
Something is going on with the way they optimize the game as well. I understand it is a simulator and it takes up lots of resources but something has to be done. There are many other games that use the Unreal Engine able to make giant worlds with ultra high levels of detail on console at a stable 30 fps, yet TSW constantly drops to 20-25, major freezes and all that. Not to mention the various game crashes and stuff like that.
No it doesn't. Because you need to buy Ruhr-Sieg Nord just to be able to use the DB BR155 on Main-Spessart Bahn and Rhein-Ruhr Osten.
The problem isn't that trains aren't available on some routes. The problem is that they will only be available on other routes when you own their "home" route.
Yep, TSW desperately needs a Quick Drive mode. Or make "off the rails" work for timetable services as well.
I'd like to take the Class 101 on a run on the West Somerset Railway. Fits right in the Diesel Gala theme set for the route, the platforms are long enough, and the Class 101 has enough power to run the timetable in time. So let me just run one of the services with the 101, without the need to manually set up all these AI trains.
But we shouldn’t be bound to a certain route for a Loco. We should be able to purchase a Loco and use it ANYWHERE on timetable mode, the scenario planner, or the livery designer.
the 422 doesn't run on ska in real life? I would assume it would since the s19 services are part of the Detusche Bahn S-Bahn Rhein Rhur network
The fact that they are working on pis systems and not the audio issues is quite baffling and not a good decision. I don't even use a lot of the preserved collection routes because of the problems it has. I think they should work on the audio issues before adding pis into the game
Apparently it doesn’t, and I can kinda see it with the way the stations are in game. I think I seen someone also say the 420 is supposed to be on SKA as well.
Facts. It’s upsetting how many sounds are just WRONG, yet they start work first on something most people aren’t going to be paying attention to anyway.
They need to hurry up and sort out track noise, and traction motor noise. The M7 starts to sound like a bullet trains as soon as it hits 25 mph in the game for some reason.
Even though I’m such an advocate for PIS, the audio issues should really take priority above everything else where possible.
They say it isn’t a game breaker, as we can still play and complete the services, but who really wants to play a game with broken sounds and can say they enjoy it?
But if you were to buy a loco that wouldn't run in the route in the real life timetable, it would be unrealistic. Now for the scenario planner I agree since you can add whatever you please as well for livery designer. But for timetable mode that should not be the case if that specific train doesn't run in that specific route in real life. That's like saying if I buy the 465, then I should be able to use it on the offical Koln Aachan timetable mode which would be extremely unrealistic
The discussion isn't about being realistic or not. The current system is giving unnecessary limitations, even when you remain realstic. Read my abovementioned example of the DB BR155. Realistic as it can be, because it's already possible to use the loco on these routes in game.
Okay, but if I buy the BR 420, I should be able to use it on RRO, HRR, SKA, and HMA. Yet it’s only available for HMA. It should be unlocked for all trains, like the original Train Simulator.
TSW2 sitll does have some issues graphic wise witch is a joke since they are suppossed to be utilizing a "new engine" (it's a updated version of the same ue4 engine) and I don't understand why the game still has these issues. These issues should've been resolved because the constant flickering issue is annoying espicially on consoles
Sam also said they are starting to look at new ways to draw in the track and catenary.
The regional db trains, 143, 146 make up regional express services on rro so we already technically have express services on rro if you own msb and rsn
How would you know that. Apart from the release route and some 3d model pictures there is no information about the br 420. Maybe it will come as a substitute train for other routes. But unless we get some official info I wouldn't just assume something.
At some point they are gonna have to make next gen upgrades for tsw2 otherwise the game will look dated and I agree that tsw is a console game ported to pc as well. DTG can't wait to make upgrades to the game in 3 years from now. I think they should start in early 2021 with upgrading the game
How ironc, well I wonder why they would add a train to a route that doesn't run on it in real life
Odd how it came out on PC first if it was made for consoles and then ported to PC?!
As for the layering issue, it is a pain but maybe it is not so easy to sort out as it seems.
Overall I am pleased there are many fixes on the roadmap, I would like to see what routes are coming next, after the current crop.
I think pis would be cool but the fact that they are putting something that really is a minor feature in and not fixing audio issues is wrong in my opinion. Also them saying that the audio issues is not a game breaker is stupid and ignorant of them because of course it's a game breaker. With the amount of complaints about it I can't see many people enjoy playing with broken sounds
That would be cynical but I don’t think it’s the case. If it was they would have planned it for that route in the first place.
Historically, DTG have never added layers to older routes when new DLC comes out. Layers have also only been added to later routes for locos that came with previous routes and not for loco DLC. Loco DLC have only ever added a layer to the route they are released for, and everything else is done by substitution. I would expect that this will continue to be the case.
Having loco DLC, and possibly all locos, separate to the routes wouldn’t necessarily add any content to other routes in terms of gameplay. It would likely only result in players being able to buy loco DLC without already having the route it is tied to and therefore any or the playable content. Without a consist builder for the scenario designer and added functionality to the scenario designer, freedom to purchase loco DLC without owning the route it is currently tied to would result in locos with no uses. There isn’t the function to allow the community to fill in the gameplay gaps either with no shareable scenarios yet.
Even with that extra functionality it would potentially lead to newer players, casual players (the extended player base outside the traditional train simmer) buying the loco DLC and then finding no gameplay with it which could lead do disappointment and possibly anger towards the company.
For things to change from how they are done now, there is a lot of this background work for DTG to do to allow more flexibility when purchasing add-ons before they can detach the locos from their routes. I doubt it's going to change soon, so we are probably stuck with how things are for a long while to come.
Because the dev said they were only making the Munich version of the BR 420. Going off of what DTG already did with making the Munich version of the BR 423 and not allowing use of it on SKA, it’ll probably be the same for the BR 420.
Yeah, it would be pretty stupid to wait too long to make some upgrades.
It is a game breaker. If they want to claim that the game makes you FEEL like you’re actually in the game, but then they don’t include the real sounds, it’s game breaking, as it’s supposed to be an immersive experience.
But you shouldn’t have to own two other routes to get Exp services on a whole different route.
I agree if said train runs run on that route in real life. I do agree that trains should be standalone dlcs like in ts2021. It doesn't make sense to have to buy a train and then a route to use that train if that train runs on another route in the game in real life. To me it sounds like dtg are being greedy and I'm pretty sure they can take away that requirement espically if that's not in ts2021
If the train runs on the route IRL, it should have that version as well, and more services for the other routes. If it doesn’t, then just let us do off the rails in timetable mode.
I agree but if you own tsw2020 collectors edition which I and I assume a lot other people do, it would not be a issue since it comes with msb and rsn
I don't think off the rails should be in timetable mode because it would be unrealistic. Maybe if they allowed the player to make a custom timetable for a route kinda like how scenario desinger is and add whatever trains we want then I think that would be a good compromise
I have the original TSW 2018 version for PS4. Had to go through the living hell of the Preserved Collection because of that too.
If they can let us make a timetable that can be as expansive as the Munich timetable, I’d be cool with that.
Any updates to the roadmap today?
The stream yesterday made it sound like there was a good chance of an update today.
Also the 420
DTG, you see this? Remove the 422, put in the 423. Thank you for your cooperation.
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