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Roadmap Update - 27th July 2021

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Jul 27, 2021.

  1. Mkdog45

    Mkdog45 Well-Known Member

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    D49EA400-C59C-4227-9CA4-6D4C18A46CBB.png The 313s also have different PIS boards, instead of text like the 314, they use dot matrix like 377. Also the livery isn’t the easiest to do.
    1BE97596-BF84-4B47-9401-54CA94D6B3C4.jpeg EA6B0D2B-474F-4043-9D53-90A5AE9D4E61.jpeg
     
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  2. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I think "the saga of the 313" is another case where the community oversimplifies (probably because they just want the darn thing now) and DTG overcomplicates (because they want to "do it right" (even though they'll find some way to mess it up))
    The 313 HAS been months and months going nowhere fast and that doesn't necessarily mean it will be a world beating experience when it (finally) arrives.
    Personally a slightly rehashed 314 with the extra sounds for the changes between panto and third rail power gubbins would do me fine, but then I know a few people on here (and other forums) would be aghast if it isn't picture perfect
     
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  3. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    Well if you consider the BR 155 als an "old" loco, germany has one. But of course that's not very much. While I can see that maybe a historic german route wouldn't be the best idea considering player basis and layering-system, more vintage loco are indeed a good idea. People from TS20XX love the old-school locos made by VirtualRailroads. They are - as I guess - pretty popular and I think there is much money to make out of vintage locos. I'd pay so much for a e.g. 103, 120, 110, 141 etc. And they could be layered into other routes as well. I really hope DTG goes more into vintage german locos. Their 363 in oceanblue-beige from the Bundesbahn is a second little step (after the 155) into that way.
     
  4. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Didn't DTG say that there wasn't a huge call for 'historic' routes in the EU, whereas the UK does and I think the US but not 100% on that.

    As for the 313 I hope we see it soon as it seems to be the first thing to be put on the back burner.
     
  5. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Well-Known Member

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    I think the 313 is a Hoax. It has been almost a Year and we have had no pics or anything of the kind come up. Its the only DLC from the first roadmap that has not been released. Even Hamburg - Lubeck never took this long. It even went back down in the roadmap to In Production around the time that Cathcart Circle Line was being demoed. Maybe that means they are allocating everything to rush hour? Lets see how long after rush hour this thing will release. It should be the next one
     
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  6. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The 313 will probably be the next dlc released. The 313 was basically announced too early. Not a suprise whatsoever
     
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  7. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Well-Known Member

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    That is true. Even before Train Sim World 2 Update, which became rush hour, was put on the Roadmap, the 313 was already in the roadmap for 5 months. It has been almost a Year and at this point is, besides Rush Hour, one of the most anticipated DLC add ons for TSW2 since GWE and NTP became Preserved Collection
     
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  8. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Well-Known Member

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    This might end up like the Editor
     
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  9. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    Do you want just a 313? Or do you want a good 313? They should take ALL the time they need. There is no need to rush anything.
     
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  10. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Well-Known Member

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    I want a Semi Decent 313. This has taken longer than the best routes have taken
     
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  11. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    The F7 was decently popular when it came with Clinchfield, and alot of people would like to see the GP7 added as a loco DLC for the route too. There is a market for Vintage US equipment in TSW2.
     
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  12. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    You're right. I guess I was being a smarty pants. Apologies. I'm on a bit of a crusade for NA content and I can get a little over excited.
    Cheers!
     
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  13. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    The 313 is already 75%-ish done because we have the 314. The few differences between the 314 and 313 could easily have been done by now. The 314 was very good anyway; it's not like they're starting over (or at least I hope they aren't).
     
  14. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Well-Known Member

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    Dovetail have said that they rebuild trains from scratch every time(which makes sense given the 101 in DLOTGW is not the same as NTP/TVL)
     
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  15. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    I think it isn't "just" a "small" thing to change. Every change means massive amout of reworking. Also they said every time that right now everything is concentrated on rush hour. There is no work on other DLCs. Understandable as three routes need three times of (wo)menpower to develop this. A loco addon is for sure no priority. It is indeed frustrating, i understand this totally if that is your loco. But you have to see it from another perspective. More people will be pleased with a new route + loco than just one loco for an "old" route. At the end it's just maths.
     
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  16. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    What you said it's true. DTG even say that loco dlc's tend to sell less than route dlc's.
     
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  17. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    Most of the Class 313 is already ready. The model is ready, and the seats can be taken out of the 377 and 375. The only major things left to do are the updated cab and the camshaft traction system. Major work? Maybe, but certainly not one year's work...
     
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  18. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    How long it takes isn’t the issue, it’s having the time when they aren’t working on something else. They weren’t going to remove dev time from the big release of the year to add extra time to the development of a loco DLC. The 313 was actually finished and had gone into testing, but it wasn’t right and it needed more time added for the development, but none was available as the whole team were working on Rush Hour, which is more important than the 313.

    It hasn’t been in production for a year, the dev time for it would have been the same as any other loco DLC. The first roadmap it appeared on showed things that were going to be developed at some point in the future, not only things they had started working on. There was a lot to get through before they got round to the 313. Then, as I have said, it was developed and there were issues. That’s why it hasn’t been released yet.
     
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  19. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    Exactly what I was thinking. Sounda like a very logical reason why.
     
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  20. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    I think as someone who doesn't work in this industry and has no knowledge about DTG's interna, it is impossible for us to predict when what should be ready. Another big problem, you might have not thought of: Every small change means that the whole thing goes through the complete QA-process. Because it's always possible that something else is broken because of one change. And it SHOULD go through the whole process, because I don't want to buy something that is broken.
    But then again: Not only the development, but also the bottlenecked-QA is focussed on Rush Hour as it should be, im my opinion. Neither has the 313 priority in development, nor has it in QA and honestly? That's fine. That's just reality. And it's totally understandable.
     
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  21. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

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    Im sorry but that’s a complete lie. If that were the case we’d probably see the 375 without the weird front. In some cases all they do is change the livery *cough* GWB 52 *cough*
     
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  22. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    When does the Update come out, with the new start screen and updated preserved trains and routes?
     
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  23. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Well-Known Member

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    Probably either whenNEC2 Releases or the week prior. I think it will be before NEC2 as TSW summer update moved to Upcoming while NEC2 stayed in Production
     
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  24. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That's really not indicative of anything, save that the update had been completed and begun QA as of 27 July and NEC hadn't. It says nothing about release dates.
     
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  25. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    We'll find out Thursday. DTG have said (repeatedly) that the summer update is out when NEC Boston is out, and the preview for that is Thursday night
     
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  26. 50001

    50001 New Member

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    Has anything been said about producing a wider variety of passengers? I always think of Logan's Run when I play this - there seems to be no-one over the age of thirty on the trains in this world!

    There are also no children, no people with luggage and no people in business clothes going to work. They also travel alone. In real life people travel in small groups, sitting and standing together. Also, different types of people travel at different times of the day.

    These seem like small things, but it would improve the immersion if the passengers exhibited realistic appearances and behaviour. Would it be hard to do?
     
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  27. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    They're doing what they've called "dioramas" on station platforms which will be tableaux of people doing whatever they do, but limited to specific locations on platforms, around the station (and hopefully in future trackside as well)
    This will mean a greater variety of "things and people to see" without needing to write extra passengers (what we know as this now)

    What will be coming in the summer update (whether you buy the rush hour pack or not) is additional passenger variation in the form of differing heights, clothing colours, clothing styles and patterns, and also temperature related changes (so coats and scarves when below 12 degrees etc)

    So passengers shoudl be a bit more varied in some ways, and the dioramas add more in other ways
     
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  28. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    So bascially different passengers wearing different clothes and doing certain things but the models themselves don't actually change. That was my understanding after watching last week stream at least.

    Please do quote me if I am wrong
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
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  29. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I think it was said quite definitively on stream that they couldn't currently include children, elderly people or people with canes, walkers etc or wheelchairs. The explanation given was rather technical, but reasonable.
     
  30. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I believe the skeletons are the same (so same bodies as now) but they've been able to adapt the tallness of them by some degree
    There are still 8 heads, and they haven't changed the hairstyles
    What they have adapted is texture, colour and pattern of clothing with some randomization
     
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  31. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Ah ok. It would've been nice to see older folk though. Games like bus sim and OMSI 2 have old folk. I could understand why children probably can't be in the game even though OMSI 2 has kids. Whilst it would've been nice to see different looking passengers for me it's not too big of a deal since I play alot of OMSI 2 and is used to seeing the same passengers over and over again but I could understand why potentially some could be annoyed that the models of the passengers haven't changed.

    Hopefully in the future dtg will actually make different models. It would increase immersion even more in my opinion. I originally thought when rush hour was announced that we would see different variety of passengers in terms of different modeled passengers. Seems like a missed opportunity to not include different looking passengers
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
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  32. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    From what Matt said on stream the issue isn't having different characters, it's how they interact. A solitary old person walking at the same speed as a solitary young person wouldn't look right. A solitary child with no "attached adult" wouldn't look right. A person in a wheelchair using the stairs...
    So having the right kind of person interacting with the right kind of other person as well as the scenic assets and so on is the technical difficulty, but some of this will be "solved" by the tableaux / dioramas where you CAN have families or engineers or an old couple, because it's kind of an animated situation that is separate from the rest of the scene, so you could have old, young, families, couples etc. without needing to have them do much other than "be there when the train rolls past"
     
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  33. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Wheelchairs are completely understandable as to why they can't be included. The kid part as well but can't they just adjust the speed in which certain people walk
     
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  34. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I think it's a case of they can and maybe they will but as usual DTG have a limit as to how much dev time they're able (or willing) to put into an individual aspect of development at a time.
    I'm sure it's more than possible at generation time (which from the dev stream seems to be when the player enters the tile that the station is situated on) to generate the passenger, assign the passenger a VMAX and maybe even a "stutter value" which would be how often they stop and so on. Maybe even a max distance from the entrance (I doubt many pensioners go to the ends of the platforms or too far from the station buildings, or platform seating...)

    So although we can come up with a lot of different things passengers MIGHT do, putting in the effort to make sure the bases are covered isn't exactly a small thing
     
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  35. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Every constant you convert to a randomized variable means additional CPU cycles = slowdown.
     
  36. trainsimfan94

    trainsimfan94 Member

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    ..........
     
  37. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, and that just means more for the CPU to do every time a tile loads, therefore stutter
     
  38. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Then wouldn't the "jetpack" passengers on the Bakerloo line cause stutters? When i see the passengers shoot up to the sky, I don't get stutters. Sometimes I'll have instances of passengers not really moving and walk extremely slow when trying to pass people and I don't get stutters. So I don't think passengers that walk slower than normal (elderly passengers) would affect the performance of the game unless it isn't well optimized
     
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  39. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    The only thing that's changing when they jet pack is velocity (including direction)
    When working out which face, hair, clothing, colour, (add in age, max speed, location etc etc) you're doing a bit more... and doing it for a few hundred (maybe) people at one time would also mean more CPU time
     
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  40. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    But I don't think adding a few new models would affect peformance unless the game isn't that well optimized.
     
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  41. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    It's not just "adding a few models"
    What they've done is allow variation in the models which is done automatically at load time to give the game a "pot of people" to choose from and when the tile boundary with a station is reached the game loads that tile and then refers to how many people are needed and "goes to the pool" and loads them
    SO each tile boundary where people are required will involve the CPU going from "what's the passenger doing?" to "What's upcoming that I need to load now"

    Many people won't notice the difference, after all SSDs and CPUs are faster now than they were when TS1 was devised, but still there IS a load there
     
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  42. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of CPU's and optimization etc., you know we often talk about the difference between PC's and consoles in terms of horsepower. But we forget that there's an almost infinite spectrum of PC power, too. Some people, I'm sure, have lower end PC's which might not be much faster than a PS4 and others are playing on rocket ships. I'm about in the middle, and as time goes on, I find my performance gradually deteriorating. In the not too distant future, I'll have to upgrade, just as console players will. I think I can handle it this year, but beyond that.......
     
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  43. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    My RIG is very outdated so I am very happy about the 4.26 update which is a noticeable improvement in performance \o/
    Waiting for a Steam release... :)

    PS And the fact that the game now takes up less space. I have to juggle DLCs because I don't have enough space on the disk.
     
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  44. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to buy a 3060 to update my rig but I can't get one anywhere.
     
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  45. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    And as of Dec 9 2021 California is banning the sales of high end gaming computers!

    How ridiculous.
     
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  46. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    :mad:
     
  47. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Well, they have to be certified as energy efficient, at least. And it's not just California, other states with energy problems are doing the same thing. The way around it is to build your own rig or only buy from companies which have prequalified.
    Much more serious is the bacon issue. Californians don't like the way pigs are treated, so they may have a pork shortage.
    Are we going off topic again? :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2021
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  48. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    California has an energy crisis, yet still trying to build that HSR between Bakersfield and Merced, great priority state....

    But enough about that....
     
  49. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    This is the same state, mind you, that wants to shove all their road transportation onto the electrical grid.
     
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  50. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    With all the wildfires going on in that state and them trying to be more energy efficient, it doesn't sound suprising.
     
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