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Roadmap Update - 4th May 2021

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Jamie, May 4, 2021.

  1. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    If I remember correctly, the delay for the LIRR PIS was because they needed an artist to design and render the information appropriately for LIRR/American passenger displays.

    However this is a carbon copy of SEHS/British PIS so were they not able to find an artist to do this work?
     
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  2. Luke8899

    Luke8899 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but we come back to the time old argument of 'better to have something than nothing', right? This route was launched and sold without PIS, there was no expectation for it until the preservation crew said they would implement it, and even now, what we have is more authentic than a line of blank screens, right? So have we moved in the right direction? Yes, I would say. Has it gone as far as people wanted? No.
     
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  3. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Making something new always requires more man-hours. That means either more men or more hours, or both.
     
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  4. Nielsen

    Nielsen Well-Known Member

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    Depends on who you ask. For example, I'd say they shouldn't have developed Hamburg - Lübeck if they knew they weren't going to model authentic passenger coaches for the route.

    We have moved from one state of incorrect (missing PIS) to another state of incorrect (UK-esque PIS).

    Indeed, but that's DTG's concern. Not something we have to keep in mind before raising an issue.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2021
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  5. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    And thus the problem of the internet. We don't have to worry about what's possible, we can just spout what we think it "required" and then not worry about anyone else's concerns in the meantime. Hopefully your bosses do this at every appraisal you have.
     
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  6. YASUKE

    YASUKE New Member

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    There is an issue with the S6 that terminates at Leipzig Messe, we cannot reach the last check so the service can be finished… I drive this train for nothing
     
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  7. Nielsen

    Nielsen Well-Known Member

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    On this very matter no one asked for the impossible though. People saw and issue and pointed it out politely and constructively.
     
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  8. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Oh, who decides what criteria "possible" is based on? We don't know what resources are being assigned to this route, so what you think is possible and what actually is (with those resources) are likely very different things. Hence, waiting to know what's being given to us (yes, hate the fact that we have little decision making in this, but that's the case) is better than jumping in with base assumptions and then getting annoyed
     
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  9. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    So bascially when pis is added to MSB, they should just copy the one from sehs and put it to ska because it's better than nothing? I'm certain that would cause many German players to complain about that. They added the wrong dostos to hbl and I think we all know what the reaction to that was like.

    I disagree with that mindset. When dtg said that the pis would have to be made for lirr, it took longer because it doesn't use the same system as the ones in Germany and the U.K as well as finding an artist to design it because the LIRR uses a different design. So when they said that, it made some people think that it would come as it would be in reality. But instead it's just a carbon copy/paste from sehs which is innacurate for a game that claims to make things as authentically as possible.

    Yes people's expectations are different. There's probably one person here who wouldn't care if a pis system from the U.K was put into a German route but when they said they needed a artist to design the pis since it's not the same as the other routes and that the pis needed to be redone, some people were not expecting a copy paste job but a accurate representation of the pis on the MTA Long Island Railroad from a company that claims to make things as close to accurate as possible. You can't be suprised by all the complaints.

    I am curious to hear why they couldn't make the correct pis system for LIRR when the next roadmap stream comes. There are images of how it looks online and it was delayed as well. I hope they will adjust the system to make it more accurate the next time they work on lirr.
     
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  10. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    We have moved from one state of criminality (murder) to another state of criminality (shoplifting)

    You are seriously positing that all deviations from perfection are exactly the same? Proposition: a functioning PIS is better than a non-functioning PIS. I'm pretty sure Aristotle would be with me on that one.
     
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  11. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Didn't you know? Programming is magic. Wave a wand, perfectly represented PIS appears. All you have to do is care.
     
  12. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    The list of fixes is so long i get a headache just reading it and wonder what really got fixed and didn't get fixed plus did they just add some random things to the list just make it look impressive to everyone.

    O i almost forgot one what's now broken that wasn't.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2021
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  13. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Well in that case dtg should just then make a route in the Netherlands since it's been asked for so many times and use a Southeastern Class 375, a Budd M3 EMU, a Bombardier M7 EMU and a class 101 dmu because making a route with any train is better than not having the accurate train and no train at all but at least we have a dutch route

    SMH
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2021
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  14. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Again: shoplifting is not murder. Are you seriously equating a PIS with an inaccurate format to using British and American trains in the Netherlands? You might want to go back to the shop to get your proportionality circuit checked.
     
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  15. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Look your the one saying that people have high expectations for expecting the accurate pis system for lirr which what some have expected from what was said in the streams and why it was delayed. Your also saying that it's better to have something rather than nothing. In that case, dtg should make a dutch route and add a class 375, the m3/m7, class 101 and maybe a 166 because at least we have a dutch route. Like you say, it's better to have something rather than nothing. It's better to have a Dutch route with a train rather than without a train

    (Also I know shoplifting isn't murder)
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2021
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  16. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I am finally happy that this update has finally been released hopefully the next one will not be as long to get to us.
     
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  17. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully the msb update will come soon. Wouldn't be suprised if they got the pis wrong though
     
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  18. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully in a couple of weeks this time.
     
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  19. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I like playing msb but using the 146 makes me feel like my brain is gonna explode
     
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  20. Nielsen

    Nielsen Well-Known Member

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    Let’s agree to disagree on this whole thing. Point of criticism was raised and noted by DTG staff. All that really matters.
     
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  21. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    How strange that people are complaining about shoplifting (the PIS boards) but not about murder (the unrepaired, totally bollixed-up signaling system). The route on that basis remains every bit as undrivable as before. (Oh, sure, you can rely on the HUD, but that's riding your bike with training wheels).
     
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  22. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Yes the signaling system is broken but the update doesn't fix the ATC system and adam has explained why. Do I wish it was fixed, yes because we would get extra services on the Ronkonkoma and Hempstead branches. The timetable is already innacurate as is and they are aware of that. They did say that the next time they go back to lirr, they "could" work on the in cab signaling system. Also in real life the railroad does have speed limit signs across all their lines but when dtg made the route at the time, they decided not to add the speed limit boards which makes no sense
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2021
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  23. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Come on, now. Are you suggesting that anyone (in this case, probably most players) who uses the HUD is a child or a sissy. Sorry, that's not right.
     
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  24. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It isn't just the ATC; the trackside signals are broken too. That's why I quit playing this route all the way back in TSW2020 and never returned to it: the signaling system is like PZB interpreted by Franz Kafka.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2021
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  25. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Okay, didn't mean to imply that or to denigrate anyone. I use the HUD too sometimes (Clinchfield night services can't be driven without it, for example). But having to turn it on is rather like having to turn PZB off: it takes most of the fun out of it, it ruins the immersion, the illusion of driving a train "just like the real engineers do."
     
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  26. Luke8899

    Luke8899 Well-Known Member

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    See this is where is all goes off every time. You pick a completely different hypothetical example and suggest it is the same thing. Your example would clearly be worse than having nothing. In contrast the implementation of PIS on LIRR fulfils the brief as an orange dot matrix LED display that gives times for trains and is more realistic than the static black screens that were in the line from release up to this moment. Could it be better? Yes. Is it worse than before? No.
     
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  27. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    My example though still implies that having something is better than nothing which is what some have said. It's the same thing. Just add the sehs pis display for msb because it's better than not having it at all. Or add a class 166 to a Dutch route because it's better to have a Dutch route with a train than without a train
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2021
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  28. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I don't get why the trackside signals weren't fixed especially for scenarios. Makes no sense
     
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  29. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    MSB is one of favorite routes as well
     
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  30. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if the DB BR 425 can add services to that route as it runs on it in reality. That would be cool
     
  31. Luke8899

    Luke8899 Well-Known Member

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    If the Dutch route is free like this update was, then sure I'll take it with a 166. Good idea. Can we also have the East coast mainline for free with a 377? Better than nothing I totally agree.
     
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  32. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Yep and new players who may be intrested in it would have to pay $30 for it but hey having something innacurate is better than nothing at all
     
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  33. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Not all speed changes on LIRR have signs.
     
  34. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I know that but they are speed limit boards
     
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  35. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if does run on that route but it would nice if it could.
     
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  36. Nielsen

    Nielsen Well-Known Member

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    As mentioned, we knew those weren’t going to be fixed for now. On the other hand, with the PIS boards we were first told they wouldn’t make it this time around because it required additional work. Then we were told they were actually coming, but ultimately turned up without additional work put into them. Not strange the latter wasn’t too well-received.
     
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  37. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It's a matter of mimetic distance.
     
  38. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    My point is still valid
     
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  39. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Your point being, I take it, that having a 112 with the wrong size headlight is equally as wrong as having a GP38 on Hamburg-Lubeck instead. Wrong is wrong, and anything that deviates from perfection is a complete failure.
     
  40. Nielsen

    Nielsen Well-Known Member

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    Putting unrealistic PIS and signalling on LIRR aside for a second, sorry to say the big preservation update released today didn't really turn out great overall. The technical reports section of the forum is flooded with glaring issues that honestly seem worse than anything these routes suffered previously, especially Rapid Transit. Just today the community has found several issues which the testing seemingly didn't catch over several weeks. If testing caught all these issues, surely it shouldn't have been released today. Not to disregard the long list of fixes, but some obvious problems really overshadow most of the effort. :(
     
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  41. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Yes wrong is wrong. I also stated my point on the matter already so I won't repeat myself
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
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  42. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The audio on the M7 when outside cuts out in the middle of the train when it passes by and then pops up again. I thought that issue was supposed to be fixed but it clearly wasn't. The alerter on the M7 seems quiter as well. All they had to do was get the audio for the m7 up to tsw2020 standard. I had passengers when opening the doors at Hempstead when starting a service walk on the track and their bodies would glitch through the platform so their bodies would be underneath the platform glitched. Unbelievable
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
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  43. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Now this is a major mistake- far more than PIS layout:

    [​IMG]
     
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  44. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    When I first saw that when I was playing, I was baffled. How did they miss that?
     
  45. Paulo_1997

    Paulo_1997 Active Member

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    "Departure today on platforms 2 AND 3!"
     
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  46. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It gets better:
    [​IMG]

    Maybe not murder, but it isn't shoplifting either
     
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  47. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    More like a safety hazard. In real life someone controlling those switches would be suspended and possibly even fired
     
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  48. MYG92

    MYG92 Well-Known Member

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    Common that’s ridiculous I mean why not looking twice when putting assets so it can’t go through the train…
     
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  49. Eugenio

    Eugenio New Member

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    Hello,

    I tested the newly introduced LZB on the 182 on the Cologne-Aachen route.


    So far so good, but when I leave the LZB shortly before Cologne's main train station, the locomotive brakes to a standstill, no matter what I do.

    Is that the same with you?


    That doesn't happen to me with other locomotives, e.g. the DB BR101 or the ICE BR406.
     
  50. mrcharliemiggins2.0

    mrcharliemiggins2.0 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the BR 182 has a bug where it will not let you acknowledge LZB Ende, which after a short while the emergency brakes are applied.
     
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