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Roadmap Update - 9th February 2021

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Feb 9, 2021.

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  1. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I think a redesign is needed because the roadmap does get confusing so hopefully Roadmap V2.0 will be much more clearer
     
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  2. jevan-dean

    jevan-dean Active Member

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    I can't help think that is because DTG can't deliver on the bug fixes they are promising.
     
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  3. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Dovetail Special Projects Staff Member

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    That's exactly the point. Some of the fixes that were on the roadmap weren't listed in the patch notes. Some others didn't go in at all. Bug fixes change state too fast for the roadmap to give you a reliable picture of what's happening. We want to avoid that.
     
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  4. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Please reconsider this point. Knowing what bug fixes are included shouldn't be something we find out when the patch releases. A lot of players have certain issues that they want addressed. We now have no clue if this is the case until the patch drops.
     
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  5. schorni

    schorni Well-Known Member

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    That means in sum that they don't want to do a roadmap anymore? At the beginning of the year, you only bring a rough list of the tracks and locomotives you are working on and the next months there is nothing more because you only want to bring fixes in patch notes, which are only available when the patch is finished? So there is no more information in advance about what improvements are being worked on and what players can expect? Interesting approach. It seems like a reduction of information for players waiting for bug fixes. Bug fixes to unfinished products that have been released. I don't think that's a good idea.
     
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  6. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    I think you are completely missing the point here. People like consistency and for things to stay the same. They don't like change, especially when it is not communicated to them in advance. A lot of us look forward to these roadmaps every other Tuesday and this was supposed to be a very important one with new routes, an update on fixes for SEHS and the 377 livery designer. Instead we get blurb about how they are changing it but not for the better. Now we won't be told about bug fixes or improvements until they are ready for release.

    So many of us welcomed DTG's more open approach since TSW2 came out and are worried this is a step back.
     
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  7. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    You haven’t answered what I and others have asked in this post. Why wait until the exact moment when many people are waiting eagerly for the road map to tell us? If there was not going to be a proper road map this week, that decision was made before 4pm today. We could have been informed in advance not to expect a proper road map this week. People would be disappointed but I think would understand and I’m sure you wouldn’t have got the backlash that you have. By just dropping it on us at the time when we were all tuning in in anticipation, you have caused a lot of ill will in the community.

    Yes, I look forward to a revamped format (though I was quite happy with the old one) but not informing us until the usual reveal time is bad communication, something that I’m sure you wish to avoid.
     
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  8. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Or they have the fixes ready but oddly they don't make it to the latest update of the game
     
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  9. SprattyHeath

    SprattyHeath Well-Known Member

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    What else were you expecting me to say, I don't work for DTG so I cannot tell you more details about it...
     
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  10. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks thanks the clarification I understand the whole situation better now. I agree the differences between the roadmap and the patch notes can easily get confusing, and it's a good decision IMO to differentiate between the two, and as long as we don't miss out on anything and the info is correct I'm ok with it
     
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  11. jevan-dean

    jevan-dean Active Member

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    They was included in the actual update though right? Because the fixes on the roadmap are actually in the update, which proves that this has nothing to do with the roadmap and its actually the patch notes that was wrong.
     
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  12. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough. It wasn't meant as a dig at you personally.
     
  13. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    I’m satisfied that the roadmap is going to be reworked for the reasons given. It has become a bit of a bloated monster and it can get confusing.

    My biggest concern is that we still don’t have visibility of all reported issues. As I’ve said in an earlier post on this thread, we now have a long list of LIRR related fixes, but an issue I’ve reported at least twice, concerning the jobs on LIRR is conspicuous by its absence.

    The community managers have said they read every forum post and fedback everything raised, but the sheer number of issues reported (SHS alone has seen countless threads and bug reports in less than a week), is DTG really keeping track of everything?
     
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  14. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe your question will get answered in the stream
     
  15. Aufzug

    Aufzug Active Member

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    This is another disappointing step from DTG. The original roadmap as never that difficult to read or understand.
     
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  16. acekipp#7975

    acekipp#7975 New Member

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    list of items definitely on the roadmap:

    - The Roadmap
     
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  17. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe they are but can't fix all of them because of some unknown issue.
     
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  18. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    To alot of people though, it was especially if you don't speak english
     
  19. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    You haven’t addressed what I and others have questioned in this thread. Why wasn’t this communicated to us before? You have a situation where a great many people are tuning in eagerly anticipating the latest update and then you drop this on us. This decision was made before 4pm today so why were we not informed at, say, the back end of last week not to expect a proper road map today? There would be disappointment but I think most people would understand and at least be prepared for it,

    By leaving it until the moment that it would normally be revealed, you have let a lot of people down and the subsequent backlash is only to be expected.

    I look forward to the revamped roadmap (although I was happy with the old one), but the ill will towards DTG today is a result of poor communication, something I know you want to avoid.
     
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  20. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    I remember the golden times before the Roadmap. Nostalgia. Eh... <3
    Man lived in a world of illusion, full of hope, in blissful ignorance.
    It is clear now that you are not doing well. Honestly, I don't know which reality I like less.

    Finally, stop making empty promises and there will be fewer reasons to be annoyed. You can start to be honest with us during tonight's stream. It does not hurt.

    Dovetail, Dovetail, Dovetail... always the same :D
     
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  21. qdoggyy

    qdoggyy New Member

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    2 seperate road maps , this one is about LIRR the other one is one click away in the article . PLEASE READ CAREFULLY GUYS !!
     
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  22. qdoggyy

    qdoggyy New Member

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    Thank god the emergency brakes on M3 being addressed with ATC off . It was brutal like the non sounding M7's
     
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  23. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    It was only a few roadmaps ago that they moved a lot of the granular information onto the forums to slim down the roadmap, at least there was a nice list and you could still see what was being worked on and what had moved up etc. You could choose to just read the roadmap on the website or dive into the details.

    Basically today there is no roadmap as they are redesigning it, but instead of managing expectations in that regard they just thought that would be a nice surprise for people. Oops. An extra is a nice surprise, not getting something you expect to get is not.

    I totally get it moves fast and yes the granular details are potentially unreliabile, things were jumping straight into release, others were sat there for ages getting passed over. I am slightly more worried by the fact that the patchnotes are not correct, you don't even know what was in an update, now you have even less idea what to expect, but does actually it help to improve the accuracy of the patch notes? Imagine if they aren't actually sure what was in the last fix and what isn't...it doesn't paint a pretty picture of the organisation or management of DTG.

    The company has to look at how it handles information and work flows it ought not to be difficult to do something like the roadmap. It shouldn't be a meeting and it shouldn't be an excel spreadsheet, it needs building into the workflow software used so the management can see at a glance what is happening, where the resources are etc. Part of that, a redacted version if you will, should be able to be spat out and issued publicly as a roadmap and as patch notes for each update on each system.

    I get the feeling that too much of what is happening only exists in people's heads rather than being documented anywhere, it isn't red tape, its a useful internal control especially as your organisation grows.
     
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  24. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    It sucks that when you have atc on or off and when you press b or circle, the emergency brakes turn on
     
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  25. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Exactly this. I personally really appreciated the change made in January, and now they've backtracked. It seems the only reason it has changed is due to DTG not being able to keep track of things internally. Instead of fixing these issues, they've axed a chunk of the roadmap...
     
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  26. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    As the old saying goes; ‘it ain’t broken, why fix it’
     
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  27. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    That links to the last roadmap. I carefully read the date at the top.
     
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  28. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Well-Known Member

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    ...what? The roadmap linked in the article points to the one posted January 26th. Perhaps you are the one who needs to read carefully.
     
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  29. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    Sorry about “spamming”. My post at post 157 above disappeared from my screen and I thought I’d lost it. So I rewrote it as best I could (post 169) and reposted but then my original post magically reappeared.

    Sorry about that.
     
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  30. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Or "Don't release it broke, then no need to fix it!"
     
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  31. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I agree
     
  32. MrbKlegend89

    MrbKlegend89 Active Member

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    Here is what im going to say. As a long time New Yorker. The LIRR DLC was okay but disappointed(still wished extended service past Hicksville and Woodside regarding Port Washington) and also lack of timetable service. I hope as well these long list of bugs would be fixed, but im glad LIRR is not forgotten...The roadmap article explains no full roadmap and they are reworking on a new format of it. BUT ppl complaining DO have a right to feel a way if they had high expectations or as we say "gassed up" in other words really excited for the next roadmap as mentioned in previous streams. Im pretty sure they are upset because of the POOR communication from DTG and like someone in this thread said, it wouldve been better if this type pf roadmap update wouldve been mentioned in the previous stream or streams, then people would not be upset..If im wrong, correct me
     
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  33. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    At least Sam puts his head over the parapet.
    He probably knew todays roadmap would generate some heat, but not the quantity.
    Trust he’ll be suitably chilled for tonights inquisition.
     
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  34. Jannerdunk

    Jannerdunk Well-Known Member

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    I can't help think that this does seem to be a backwards step.

    Whilst I agree that the roadmap itself should be for more longer term projects and new content, it has been extremely helpful to see the various bug fixes being listed. It gives us, (the paying customer) some reassurance that the issues we are reporting are being looked into and taken seriously. Lets face it, if the content wasn't released with so many issues in the first place, the bug list would not have become so unwieldly!

    We are told that all the forum posts are read, but its been evident over the past couple of roadmaps that some issues that many have been reporting weren't being listed on the roadmap, (BR 363 Journey modes services SH11 onwards as an example). So this announcement comes as no surprise.
     
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  35. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I too am disappointed that (apparently) RM2.0 will not include bug fixes being worked on.

    I can see why they weren't working with the old format- that one was categorized into timeline stages and bug fixes don't really work like that- some can be handled in an afternoon and some require rewriting a huge chunk of game code, so there's no way really to sort them as "Next Arrivals", "Upcoming" etcetera. I get that.

    But going silent is not the way, either. It is most definitely reassuring to know that, at some time in the moderate future, a scenario-killing bug like the red light in Freight Exchange will be repaired.

    Would it not be possible to have a separate category, not segregated by time frame, of "Bug fixes we are currently working on"?
     
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  36. BR125

    BR125 Well-Known Member

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    2nyj3p.jpg
     
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  37. Cael

    Cael Well-Known Member

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    From my experience, *this* is what takes the most time. Everyone in this forum should try and get accurate information from 6+ co-workers, have fun while doing so.

    I fully agree the roadmap was getting a bit messy and suggest splitting it into a "new content" section, covering DLCs and larger projects ("Steam") with the existing four stages approach and then a list of known issues and fixes that are being worked on without specific timeframe. Quick-moving issues should probably not enter the roadmap at all, just the patch notes.

    This could work in the mean time until Roadmap 2.0 is ready.
     
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  38. tubefan1973

    tubefan1973 Well-Known Member

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    Will HMA layers be dissapearing then?
     
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  39. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Give us finally the promised Layers for München Augsburg for Xbox Series X and PlayStation 5.
    This Consoles have a Lot of Power to handle everything.
     
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  40. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    No, they were game-breaking, immersion-breaking, IS Game Breaking. Do you want to sit in utter silence for 45 Mins while operating a train? I assume not.
     
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  41. Geth_2234

    Geth_2234 Active Member

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    Well had a read through these replies it’s clear people are quite angry with this roadmap and so they should be this is one big step back for DTG!

    I was eagerly waiting this roadmap release today but I come home from work have a read through and what a disappointment that was. To put it bluntly it’s a pretty useless roadmap I can understand that it needs to be reworked “again” because now let’s not forgot that DTG said this back in the new year and the roadmap was changed back then I can understand that things change and nobody can see into the future and yes another improvement is necessary but there was nothing majorly wrong with the old version so why can’t we have the roadmap in the old format while this new one is being developed. IMO this is wrong to promise us a roadmap but then leave us in the dark and wait till 4pm to release half a roadmap and a statement about why there isn’t a roadmap this statement could have been posted in advance when DTG made the decision not to post a roadmap this week. The community would of been a lot more understanding if this was said in advance. The DTG standard has definitely gone downhill recently and something like this just makes us think that DTG are being secretive again.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
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  42. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    In the case of 155 & 182 for SKA, Matt said something like ez pz lemon squeezy. That was a few months ago. I hope, these 'for consoles' HMA layers are ez pz too or even easier! Let's pray together \o/
     
  43. GothicMatt

    GothicMatt Active Member

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    Im sorry but this roadmap has to be one of the worst, i was looking forward to seeing the new roadmap with information about routes other than just LIRR, liked seeing what was upcoming, next arrival, in production and planning.

    I agree not everyone has or wants to watch the stream when we could have patchnotes to read on any update patches. Im very disappointed tbh DTG
     
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  44. Gilly

    Gilly Well-Known Member

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    I think this sums it up perfectly- Managing Expectation.
    This is where your falling down DTG, big steps were made with the community when you released The Roadmap to the point where you were beginning to regain some of the trust you had lost. It gave us not only an indication (or even acknowledgement) of what and when we could expect bug fixes, but also what we could expect in terms of new traction and routes. Instead of gaining momentum its currently at a dead stop with the community left to once again ponder our existence!
    Would to have been to difficult a step to at least say prior to the roadmap release you were revamping it and there wouldn't be an update today!
     
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  45. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Matt also promised for Long Time ago, to make the Dostos Cabcar Available to drive on Rhein Ruhr Osten...
    So it’s TrainSim-Adam Problem now to make it playable on RRO.
     
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  46. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    If a bug fix goes through the process fast... well that's not a problem I'd say. The problem is that now we won't be able to see the bugs being acknowledged at all (like the Dash-8 bugs posted a month ago which I have been assured will be looked at). If the things get put into a roadmap, we (=the customers) can see it moving/staying and NOT DISAPPEARING. It gives us a little bit of control. Granted the list is huge, but sweeping it under a carpet a saying "oh it will be fixed" is far from a good solution. At least make a dedicated periodically updated bug list with four categories:
    -registered: you got a bug report, probably repeatedly, you know about it, we know you know
    -being worked on: it is now being actively worked on, you're trying to solve it
    -finished: "it works, will be in the next patch for this route"
    -discarded: "could not replicate/working as designed"
    Update such a post once a week and Roadmap can stay focused on "larger projects".
     
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  47. Deltic00

    Deltic00 Active Member

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    Train PIS on LGV is still broken with all trains appearing to be going to and from Metzville. I did submit a ticket, they confirmed it was broken but not on the roadmap.. about 3 roadmaps ago..
     
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  48. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    The history of the game clearly shows, 'discarded' is the main category. Ancient SPG bugs eg.
    Nobody will pay DTG for bug-fixing, so the strategy is so simple. In theory.
    New copy-paste scenery tool has to be the new way to make more and better routes, not only 'more'.
    After few months of absence, I have to say - regress is rolling.

    EDIT And the clocks at the Munich Hbf are still at 12. This illustrates some things well...
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
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  49. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest

    oulala !! what rage for a roadmap which anyway changes every two weeks !!!

    All I remember is that it is the same as that of 26 and that in addition the LIRR will be repaired everywhere, I say thank you DTG for continuing to repair the TSW1 routes.
     
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  50. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    But if they discard something transparently, we can simply question why? That's the point, every discard had to be justified.
     
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