Roadmap Update: Tharandter Rampe: Dresden - Chemnitz With Db Br 612 And Db Br 143

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by cyrill.kroonstuiver, Oct 19, 2021.

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  1. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely sure, I live there :)
    The line would have gone all the way to Nuernberg (something like 4,5h from Dresden). Half way into the route, the wires would have ended (at Reichenbach, about 2h from Dresden). In order to get through trains, the 612 was used but technically not needed for half the route ;) RB30 services will go the whole length of the part of the route we get in TSW using the 143.
    (Around 2013, the line was electrified to Hof and the RE 3 services were cut, terminating in Hof now using electric trains and only from Hof to Nuernberg the 612)
     
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  2. Betjoin

    Betjoin Well-Known Member

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    I am a little bit worried since while driving with Tilting enabled, the 612 uses a different Protection System. Its Called GNT/ZUB262 or Geschwindigkeitsüberwachung Neigetechnik and enables higher Speeds by, for example, overriding GPAs and some other PZB-Equipment. The System Uses either Special Magnets or Eurobalises.

    Without the System the 612 cannot take advantage of the tilting technology and must either to non-tilting Speedlimits.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2021
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  3. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    But the route is set before 2013 isn't it?
     
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  4. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    It will just be nice to have a diesel unit after the string of EMUs and Dosto stuff on all the other routes, though I would have liked a 628 personally.
     
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  5. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    I would expect that since otherwise the BR612 wouldn't be realistic :) Nonetheless, even before that time the whole route between Dresden and Chemnitz was electrified.
     
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  6. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I'm personally a tad surprised about the route having a DMU and an electric loco. What does electrification look like on this route? If it's all electrified, there's no point in having a DMU. If it isn't electrified, there's no point in having the 143. So I guess it's partially electrified?
     
  7. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, this was the missing part that I didn't know. Thanks!
     
  8. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    Before 2013, it would see the following service pattern:
    RE3: Dresden - Freiberg - Chemnitz - Zwickau - Reichenbach - Hof - Nuernberg
    RB30: Dresden - Freiberg - Chemnitz - Zwickau

    The route between Dresden and Reichenbach is electrified, the route between Reichenbach and Nuernberg not. Hence the electric and Diesel, although for the section of the route we get the Diesel technically wouldn't make sense :)
     
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  9. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the explanation. It's a bit of an odd choice. I'm less enthousiastic about the DLC now. Driving a DMU on an electrified route just doesn't feel right...
     
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  10. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    It'd be a bit like London - Peterborough (or any other part of the ECML south of Edinburgh) in 2018, with a HST or a Voyager.
     
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  11. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Oh, and a minor thing but I noticed it last night and it's bugged me since;
    The route code on the roadmap should be DGB-R7 01 or DBG-R7 01 (unless they're doing another AC thing we don't know about), since the BR612 is a Diesel Hydraulic (MU) ;) DTG Protagonist
     
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  12. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    I commented that as well, hasn't changed yet though :D There are multiple routes where the codes are wrong, seems like they care less about the codes than we do:D
     
  13. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Ah, must've missed that comment :D
     
  14. Haribo112

    Haribo112 Active Member

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    It's not odd at all. You have to look at the bigger picture: the BR 612 uses tilting technology. This tech is currently absent from TSW2, and developing it would allow the Acela Express tilting train for Boston Sprinter and the ICE-T for Riesa - Dresden to be developed. I'm very certain that we will see one of those two trains shortly after Dresden - Chemnitz .
     
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  15. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    It's all nice for the bigger picture. We'd also have a DMU available in case any future diesel routes appear.

    Doesn't mean I'm interested in this particular piece of DLC though.
     
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  16. joerg.lange

    joerg.lange Well-Known Member

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    That may be, but it is realistic. That's how it was at that time. Because a large part of the route was not electric. How else are you going to do it without having to change trains?
     
  17. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I know it's realistic, but it just doesn't appeal to me. We've got plenty of German electrified routes, and several of us have wished for an unelectrified German route. DTG making a DMU but placing it on an electrified route just feels like doing half the job. I'm just not happy with the section of the rail network DTG selected for their next DLC. If they'd have selected a section that is at least party unelectrified, I'd be happier.

    It's not about being realistic. It's about offering something different than we had before. Yes I know it's a diesel train, yes I know it tilts. That's good. But the route itself is just another modern German electrified route like we've seen plenty of before. I'm probably not going to buy it until there's an unelectrified route I can use that tilting DMU on.
     
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  18. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    I wonder, will that route have any potential for layers? I guess the usual substitution for passenger and freight locos will be available, but from what I heard, there won't be much additional traffic brought in from other routes right? Except maybe a layer for shunting (saw couple of pictures from Chemnitz with both shunters we have ingame at the station)
     
  19. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    With what we currently have I don't see any layering for passenger traffic. IC, BR146 and Talent 2 would not run on the line.
    When it comes to freight, since nothing will come with the route itself I hope we will get some layers for example from Dresden-Riesa so we get freight services :)
    Actually, Chemnitz has a sort of loco graveyard, there could be services bringing old 143 there for example :)
     
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  20. Matto140

    Matto140 Well-Known Member

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    Looks interesting, It's double track at full lenght or partialy single track?
    If there will be freight services, I will buy it release day.
     
  21. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    Double track the whole way, partly even triple track and a couple of stations along the way with more than 2 tracks :)
     
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  22. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

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    What's the triple track stations for? To facilitate freight services?
    I know where I live currently in the Netherlands is a medium/small sized town that's pretty insignificant on its own (no offense as the people here do like to think otherwise, but let's be real), but it also has 3 platforms despite that there's no branch lines here, so there's no layover traffic. The 3rd platform is mainly used as a holding space for calamities if there's a defect or an accident along the tracks and as a siding for freight to wait and let InterCity trains pass.
    So I'd imagine it's something like that too?
     
  23. Swisstrains

    Swisstrains Well-Known Member

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    normally, yes. It’s just for freight services to stop, or even pass a slower train.



    For the layers: I think it won’t be very interesting. I guess we will get all the freight locos as layers, and about one freight train every 1-2 hours. What I do hope tho, is that at Chemnitz and Dresden there will be a ton of AI services, even though you would only see them if you are in these big stations, because I don’t like e.g. Munich or Hamburg that much, because there are only the trains that run on the route.
     
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  24. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I totally agree with you on the AI traffic on big stations. It's pretty underwhelming on supposedly big stations like Hamburg and München.
    So the freight traffic you'd envision in a way similar to RRO?
    I was worried a bit about freight traffic on this route when first saw DB BR 143 as though it's also a freight loc, but mainly used by DTG as passenger loc, so I wonder if this route comes with any new freight cars. Other than that, we'll see.
     
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  25. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    At least München is somewhat understandable, given how resource intensive the route is. But Hamburg should surely have been possible to include some ai traffic...
    Sorry for the it here, but maybe we can get some ai services when preservation crew does a pass on it. Most of the rails don't interfere with the Lübeck lines I believe, so it "should" not even be trouble for the existing timetable?
     
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  26. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    Regarding layers, how realistic would be to think about the future DB 232 by TSG?
     
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  27. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    So there is a triple track section from Dresden to Tharandt, which I believe is mainly used for the east bound slow services (RB30 and S3) so they don't block the fast services. For the stations, some is where branch lines join (Freiberg, Flöha, Oederan and Niederwiesa) and there is one station (don't know from the top of my head) that has a third track in the middle outside the station which could be used for freight overtakings (typically it is used to turn around trains when there are disruptions). But typically there is not a lot of freight, so it is not like on SKA where you would need these possibilities to overtake :)
     
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  28. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    For Dresden we should get a decent amount of AI, but for Chemnitz, the only thing I could realistically see is the RB45 towards Riesa using the 143 and Dostos as well (which would be hourly around the time the RE stops at Chemnitz), but all other services use very different train sets to what we have (back then mainly Regio Shuttles BR650 and Siemens Desiro Classic BR642).
     
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  29. cadeshr6s

    cadeshr6s Active Member

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    Mabye WE get this trains in Future, so that they add Them in ;)
     
  30. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    Oh absolutely, getting the 642 would be a dream, it would even run a bit down the line so it wouldn't be just for scenery :)
    I am not sure if it is a new strategy, but if DTG wants to re-use major stations for new DLCs, why not make the next route go from Chemnitz south to the mountains (Erzgebirsbahn), would be a lovely Diesel only single track with the 642 (could even be a small network easily), and it could add some nice traffic to Dresden-Chemnitz as well :)
     
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  31. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it is very likely as i suspect that DDC will be released for the 232. So either the 232's "home route" will be DDC or we won't see it on this route. It depends on if there is a freight layer at alll at DDC, so the 232 could at least substitute. But that's just veeery speculative at this point. Let's wait for this G6 and see what happens after that. The 420 will also be released before the 232 :D
     
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  32. cadeshr6s

    cadeshr6s Active Member

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    That is a pretty good Idea, even i do Not Like the br642 that much. Or I want to See Something Like Cologne - Duisburg or Cologne Wuppertal, to fill that gaps
     
  33. cadeshr6s

    cadeshr6s Active Member

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    Than mabye make a Suggestion, so that I can read it ;)
     
  34. cadeshr6s

    cadeshr6s Active Member

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    I Heard that the 232 will Not released until next febuary
     
  35. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    the 232's home route will be RSN if I remember correctly, but it would be nice to have it on here as well.
     
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  36. cadeshr6s

    cadeshr6s Active Member

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    That is right but it can change ^^
     
  37. cyrill.kroonstuiver

    cyrill.kroonstuiver Well-Known Member

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    I doubt it can honestly.
    They've been working on it for a while, and just like Riesa Dresden not getting any 187 services cause the route came out while SkyHook had already completed most of the 187's timetables and scenarios, this route, Chemnitz Dresden is way too late for that likely. It may get substitutionable uses, but it will not be its parent route, that much I can guarantee.
     
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  38. cadeshr6s

    cadeshr6s Active Member

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    You got supstitution services on BRD
     
  39. seblay1608

    seblay1608 Well-Known Member

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    The 232 operated on this route also with Intercity trains in the past.
    [​IMG]
     
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  40. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    For those interested and able to understand German, there is video about the S3 here:


    The things seen are a bit more recent than the time the route will probably be set in, but interesting nonetheless :)
     
  41. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Not necessarily. A while back, one thread asked the community whether they‘d prefer the 232 for DRA and Maik Goltz responded that such thinghs would be considered once the loco itself is done. That‘s still a long way off. I agree that it‘s unlikely though.
     
  42. cadeshr6s

    cadeshr6s Active Member

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    Mabye DTG choose the route, because there is no much traffic and not so much around it like BRD. So that they have more time to develope the BR 612.
     
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  43. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

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    Not so unlikely as you may think of. The experiences with creating gameplay for the G6 on a older route will change some of my decisions for further DLCs in terms of gameplay and the home route for sure. But as you said, the 232 is not a thing yet , so we need to wait further to make the right decision for it.
     
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  44. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    No more strange than driving a Class 66 on an electrified British route! Or for that matter, driving the diesel F40 on the NEC.

    Besides, if the route were wireless it would preclude layering, since every other German loco and MU in TSW is electric, bar the shunters.
     
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  45. cadeshr6s

    cadeshr6s Active Member

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    Hopefully can create the small German led PIS at the stations TrainSim-Matt

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2021
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  46. cadeshr6s

    cadeshr6s Active Member

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    Here is a video which I found for TrainSim-Matt






    In the appendix there is a domument, where the functionality and the structure is explained.

    If you need more recordings of these small PIS systems, which are mostly used at small regional stations, I can try to get some recordings for you TrainSim-Matt
     

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    Last edited: Oct 20, 2021
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  47. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Active Member

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    LOL what does it have to do with teletubby lol :D
     
  48. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Active Member

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    Are we going to see those trains in added, such as the Trilex model one as you exit the terminal station, and the one that is going overhead on the above track.
     
  49. joerg.lange

    joerg.lange Well-Known Member

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    Have you ever watched Teletubby? ;) It's a saying for a cheesy landscape with green hills under a blue sky... Because the area merges into low mountain ranges (saxon ore mountains), this fits quite well. Its about halfway along the route, between Freiberg and Chemnitz. Between Dresden and Freiberg its more like the fairytale forest... :D
     
  50. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    It's the Whole route Dresden Werdau Railway via Chemnitz Karl Marx Stadt 1963-1966 electrification by Deutsche Reichsbahn DDR. Bulk of the game electric German route are in West Germany Deutsche Bundesbahn network 1954-1973 RRO SKA HRR RSN HMA and Main Spessart Bahn except for Hamburg Lubeck 2008.
     

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