PC Route Mergers In 2022 Lets Build A Network….

We should all keep in mind how long it took to implement steam. I was reading some of the older forum threads, and then there had been discussions that went like: "Do you think we will see steam being added to TSW soon?" "Oh yes, probably in a year, maybe even by the end of 2018, 2019 at max"

Everything that is as resource hungry to make, like route merging, multiplayer, VR, scenario planner 2.0 and editor shouldn't even be considered happening unless stated otherwise, and every discussion about if it's being worked on and when it will be released is pretty pointless, and so is asking DTG. Heck, I'm sure they don't know if it's even possible in the next five years, with the current state of the game.

 

Four-day holiday weekend

 

Route merging has very little reason to be "intensive" unless the routes have been badly designed (such as in TSC)
If the routes have "shared tiles" which are on the same geo location in game, with approach and departure tiles also maybe shared, then "merging" could be as simple as taking a different route at a certain switch location and the tiles load same as they normally would.

Unfortunately I think DTG didn't design the routes with this in mind

 

I was talking a couple of weeks... Since Nat took a step back

 

Yes, but; you would essentiall have two versions of each of the DLC, as the tiles can't be at the same location. If both origin tiles for example spawn at 0.0.0, it would be a mess. So one of the routes needs to be changed to load in properly. In addition to that, the transition needs to be done, since you don't want to load in Dresden twice. One route would always need to made fitting to the the one it is going to merge with. So you would end up with two different DLC for the same route that needs to be done each time; one in which it's updated to fit another route, one where it's a standalone.

Additionally, I am not sure how loading and unloading works in this game, and how much of the route is loaded in intially. On consoles for example, the reduced timetable mode has to have a reason, and loading in two timetables would just turn up that issue to new levels. Bigger route, but even less traffic would be the result.

And then there is the realism part that I'm sure people would complain about: Not all routes are placed in the same year. It's only a few years apart and I'm not sure on the exact dates, but take Augsburg for example. In TSW2, the route has a massive construction site in the train station since 2010. Maybe the route it would merge in takes place in 2009? What then? Redo the entire train station? And when another route joins in that portraits 2020?

Even if it's as simple as "drag and drop" from one to another folder, the additional work to make it fit and feel right is massive. And this is just the surface level stuff I'm talking about, the actual programming behind it to make it work sure is another huge step.

And then, at the end of the day, it would make routes take even more time to create. And we see through Spirit of Steam how much people like that...!

 

Don't see why you would need to do this, and the "origin tile" would be determined by which DLC you were playing at the time. Load in from a BML drive? You have the BML version of that tile. Loading in from ECW? Same tile, same location, different file on your hard disk

If each tile is numbered by geolocation then all that would be needed to be done is to decide which is the primary route loaded at present and then use the map tile assigned to that location. Moving between maps becomes as simple as moving between tiles is now. In fact it makes route design easier (if they get it right) because rather than having to rebuild the join stations you can use the existing tiles from existing routes.

Take the BML and ECW as an example. Both have Brighton in them as well as London Road and Preston Park. Using what I've said above those tile(s) would only need to be done once and geolocated properly then could be used in both routes. If DTG want to build the WCW they don't have to redo anything to Brighton or Preston Park because they're already there.
If you wanted to merge the routes you add in the Wivelsfield loop to one of the routes, then add the end tile into BOTH routes

It does mean that those shared tiles have to be very well built so that there don't need to be major changes, but then this should be the case anyway

You wouldn't need two DLC, you would only need the "origin tile" in both DLC, the switch from one DLC to another can happen in the background somewhere and with the dynamic loading DTG are already working on to solve the PS5 problem, this should become easier

 

If! That's the keyword. But your idea is interesting. If the PresCrew would update all tiles to be fitting to the real world, it might work going forward. But all routes already released would need to be updated still. But you would still need to update the transition depending on how much assets and route creation changed between releases. Take the new rail rendering from Harlem for example.

And what about AI paths, like road traffic? Or the timetable? Or Scenarios? There would be a lot of testing to be done.

That sounds promising.

If, and that's a big if, they do route merging, I'd hope they start with something small to test the waters. Like WSR and a new DLC.

 

This is where the foresight in planning their routes would be key of course. If they were doing a complete route, it's all built as the same generation, same time table etc and released as bite sized modular chunks. It would be silly connecting different eras.

 

It is quite sad really, people here who have great enthusiasm for the game and want to see it prosper are ignored, DTG sound more like EA everyday.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they've been told by 'the higher ups' not to communicate anything away from livestreams. There's definitely been a significant drop in communication on these forums for what feels like months now.

The two threads I made, which have been very active, hasn't had a SINGLE member from DTG comment on it, acknowledging it. It well and truly feels like we are in the old, 'dark days' of lack of communication with DTG.

 

Agree, I'm clinically paranoid but I've a grave feeling about the future of game. It almost feels like TSW is in last chance saloon as far as DTG is concerned.

 

This is kind of my point.

“We read the forums”
“We use player feedback to choose new routes / features”

I’m confident with such traffic on this post since January someone has seen it, would be good to know if it’s got anywhere close to the cutting table. There’s been no end of noise about this since BML was released back in October or so

 

To be honest, DTG have been the "better developer" for such things in TSC and given their routes are based on real world maps I would hope (though won't hold my breath) that their locations are pretty accurate anyway. I remember hearing about Cardiff Central in TSC where there are four or five versions of the station in various DLC and only the DTG one was accurate, so fingers crossed

[/QUOTE]And what about AI paths, like road traffic? Or the timetable? Or Scenarios? There would be a lot of testing to be done.[/QUOTE]
Depends on how they're written. We know that timings are based on AI runs, but there are ways of doing it. Look at all the mapping tech we have in the real world. Of course there's absolutely no proof that any of this exists in "DTGs world" so again, not holding any breath here

 

Still think Spirit Of Steam will be the watershed that makes or breaks the future of TSW. Though again despite the promise of regular updates other than some Steam (as in the game platform) achievements appearing , there has been largely silence the last two or three weeks. I do have to wonder if they are struggling to bring it all together, would be funny (in the ironic sense) if it got binned. In which case, what’s their Plan B to serve the UK interests? Probably excessive paranoia on my part and it would be a crying shame, which is why we need a bit of news and information, maybe a video clip of a Jubilee pulling out of Lime Street, to keep the interest alive.

 

There is a sense that I'm stood rubbing and tapping on a frosted window not sure if anyone is home in terms of comms. That said it was jolly nice to see Sam on a stream last night.

 

Hope not. I have zero interest in steam and never will. Understand there's a market for it, but can think of quite a few better things for DTG to bring to the game other than steam

 

Peeps- they have listened to the population?

They are asking for 30 beta type testers to deal with upgrades? They are listening?
Maybe in the next 12 months all the silly faults that everyone finds will be nipped in the bud earlier?

 

Since that is pretty much the take away from your posts, I can only refer to my previous post saying "If!".

Either way, it's a buttload of work to be done, and even more testing, and we all know how well that goes. So again, I wouldn't even hold hopes up that it will happen at all. The more routes are released, the bigger the pile of "Would need to be changed" get's, as soon as the merging tech is ready. And then there is the increasing 3rd party market. What if they release a route that would fit into the merging, but just like Rivets Arosa Line, hasn't been brough up to date in the first place? Would they force the 3rd party to update, for example PIS, or would they need to do it themselfs?

Just don't expect this route merging to happen. That's the easiest and happiest way to go. Would it be nice? Sure! But do live service games invite people to dream and demand and be sad and / or angry if the stuff they dreamed of doesn't end up happening? Yes!

 

You mean like another modern plastic dmu or emu

 

I mean anything that would fit into existing periods or networks so that game expands beyond standalone runs from point A to point B and back again

And define "modern". For some the 1990s are "modern" despite being a quarter of a century old
For some things from 10 years ago are old hat and out of date

I presume from your name and chosen picture that you would probably prefer the whole game to be from pre-1960s and therefore steam would suit you down to the ground. Good for you, I hope it meets your expectations.

Exactly. All of this is down to DTG and what they decide to do, and it's likely (from past history) to not be what we expect or want

 

I have loads of interest in steam but I doubt DTG will do the 1820's, lol. Like you I don't have a great urge for 1950's steam, if they had put a Gronk in there I may have looked more closely but can't say I'm exited for it. I'm up for them to change my mind but the only thing I'm looking forward to at the moment is the GWE updates if they will ever be released.

I think the 1960's would make a fascinating time. What with the old stuff being replaced and new diesels coming in, I'd pay for that.

 

It would be interesting to find a transitional route whereby diesels are working in conjunction with steam etc or seeing the units racing alongside or out a station together on full chat

 

I see things here a little different. The initial release of sos will be a long time invest. Dtg put so much effort into steam era related assets & core tech + research for the crewe liverpool map.

This means the decisions for the next steam route & steam loco dlcs are likley made already. Probably the project uses a lot of ressources indeed, who knows probably more than planned in the first place, so cutting back things already isnt really an option here.
The fact dtg recreated the entire timetable from scratch, after they got a old 1958 br timetable sheet from ebay, tells me they want this get right.

Same with a new county or other era related routes, this one will deal with the "problem" of not having enough variety in rolling stock, even with the giant bunch of wagons, coaches in addition to the 2 engines.
So my guess is dtg has already 2-3 loco dlcs in production.

 

I've already decided that SoS will be the first DTG produced DLC and just the 2nd route I won't be picking up on day 1 since before Rush Hour.

DTG have shown that they are incapable of releasing a standard route DLC without game breaking dispatch and performance issues so I've zero faith that if you throw complicated steam locomotives and even more complex junctions into the mix that SoS will be in anything like a playable state.

Bit gutted tbh as I was looking forward to it but I'm sure I won't be alone in this

 

Very on the fence. I’ve swerved everything since Sherman in solitary protest.I’m intrigued by SOS but not sure how much yet

 

Not me, compared to other releases i will preorder, skip all turorials and make a jubilee run to minehead full lenght.

 

I wouldn't be confident that will be even possible at decent performance and graphics unless you've got a top end rig. And even then you'd be in the lap of dispatcher God.

 

May I just ask, what is the point of preordering content? I don't get it. Why pay for something that isn't out yet?

 

I agree, particularly with something like the first steam route. I want a good look at it on streams before I lay down the moola.
There is a 10% discount, but, at the most, you save $3, which, in my world, doesn't even buy you a gallon of gas anymore. Not worth it.

 

Also if a route's older than two months DTG put at least 25% off discounts on their content. So even if you decide not to get it with the discount it's not like you're gonna be waiting that long for the price to go down.

 

Completely agree. If people pre-order this route DTG will carry on as usual. If there is a problem with the route (and there will be somewhere) and you had pre-ordered it you will get fed the line 'we are looking into it' and then have to wait for a fix but if a few people say we won't buy it unless the problem is fixed will get more urgency imo.

 

I wonder how many dlc's I own with said fixes being worked on but not on the road map so perhaps not being....

 

Noooooooooo, i do enjoy steam. But green and blue diesels is my era, when i joined BR.
I have no interest in anything whatsoever after 1996.

 

There is no point in preorder. In the particular case of SOS, i just buy it without a preview stream. For my personal tsw steam premiere, i want the impression of cold water direct into my face .

On every other release i would check if dtg might have screwed something up, but as a huge steam fan i care a lot, but go into it from day 1.

 

That still leaves anything 15x, 14x etc which would definitely fall into the "plastic DMU" category (I'm thinking the nodding donkey, certain sprinters...)

 

Do you also mean combining a Sprinter Pacer combination

 

DTG don't seem to combine much, so no

 

They are BR units though, not privatisation plastic built abroad or by foreign companies.

 

Not sure what difference that makes but OK.

 

Generally speaking I've mostly seen 'plastic' used in reference to post privatisation units, the so-called 'third generation' like the Electrostars, Civities, Aventras etc. I think you might be the first person I've seen using it in reference to BR units, but then again I suppose we all draw our own line at what is interesting to is.

 

I have not used that reference... I don't think new units are "plastic" or any worse than old units. If anything many of the new units will probably outperform the older ones for many years to come.

 

Ah, perhaps I misinterpreted. But yes, although I find modern units less interesting, (personally I don't like using 'plastic' in the way many railway enthusiasts do) I think we are on the cusp of something of a revolution in trains in Britain, bi-mode units and level boarding, I would say that we are seeing the start of a new generation of British trains, even if many of my favourite units from my childhood are heading to the scrappers, we do live in a interesting time for the railways in this country.

 

I think when people talk about "interesting" what they mean is varied, or having a specific means of working. Someone the other day said they prefer a loco "because it gives a feeling of power" even though the modern EMU replacement has three times more horsepower. Because the old loco had a big loud engine, lots of smoke, fumes and a bit of grime that makes it feel "somehow better".
Personally I think it goes back to the old adage of you love what you went to school in, and a lot of people near my age (mid forties) did grow up with big blue diesel engines pulling far too few carriages to be economically viable

My view tends to be that whilst we reminisce about the old, I don't want to be driving round in a 70s british car because they broke down, drank fuel, didn't have much guts, rattled, and generally ended up on the side of the motorway in a steamy ball (possibly on fire). The same is pretty true of the trains... I may drive a mondeo, but at least I know I can do 24,000 miles a year and it's likely not to fall apart on me

 

Aye, there's a reason I look upon the 321s and the 90s+Mk3s so fondly, they were the epitome of the train to me growing up. At the same time I'm very much a historian at heart and love the older eras very much and for that reason my ideal route or model railway layout would be the sectorised era on the GEML despite that being before my time.

I do get why people look upon a heritage diesel or a steam train with such fondness, they are an event in itself, I remember my first time seeing 70000 Britannia at Manchester Victoria a few years back, it really did seem like a powerful, living behemoth unlike anything else I'd ever seen.

I try not to dwell on what once was, or lament what I missed out upon but instead make the most of the railways today, enjoy what there is to enjoy today.

I enjoy the history of the railways, I love old locomotives and units but the railways are run for commuters and businesses, not the enthusiasts and we should not lose sight of that in our love for the railways.

 

Whereas I see a steam train and think "Nice steam train". I have seen the Flying Scotsman twice in the last year (York and Canterbury) and yeah I can see why people like old trains, but I don't see them as "real trains" any more than the 375 that pulled in before and after it in Kent.
Same with a 37, 60, 45 etc. Yes they seem powerful locos, but really they made a lot of noise and didn't go very fast. And they broke a lot.

I like a 66 because it IS powerful, same with the 60s. They do their job and do it well without too much faff

I guess it comes down to "what's needed to do the functional job of getting people from a to b" and "whats needed for people to go 'OOOh, big train!"

 

Nostalgia is what motivates a lot of train enthusiasts. For me it is the clinking of coal wagons being shunted in a South Wales valley, the distinctive journal 'ring' of a Black 5 at slow speed. One detail I have not yet noticed in TSW2 is the 'crunch' of sleeper bed when a heavy loco passes over.

 

There's certainly some very cool modern stuff, the Class 68s were a firm favourite under the roof at Victoria, the noise is truly incredible.

I think I might just like trains in general to be honest, I know places like Toton and Crewe are not what they once were but they were certainly an impressive sight when I first laid eyes upon them.

 

They can't even get reverb in tunnels or a bit of rumble passing over metal girder bridges. The soundscape is sterile.

 

Ah yes the better made modern stuff eh? like the class 800/01/02 made by Hitachi, cracking train that.................
https://www.railjournal.com/news/hitachi-class-800-801-802-iets-withdrawn-from-service/
Give me a HST any day.

 

It's quite interesting looking around at people's perceptions of good/bad, old characterful locos versus new "plastic", BR versus "foreign rubbish", etc (none of which are views I subscribe to per se, but I do obviously subscribe to nostalgia and things reminding people of simpler times in their lives).

In my case, I was born in close proximity to the Chiltern Line. In my early childhood (early 90s), it was all Class 115s, going from a dilapidated Marylebone as far north as Banbury, and a couple of freights a day hauled by 47s. I think I saw a Network SouthEast Class 47 once, filling in due to a lack of 115s. And that was it. Then the 115s got replaced by 165s Turbos, and it was just them and the 47s.

Fast forward 20 or so years from that point, and we had Class 165s, Class 168s, Class 172s, the Class 121 "Bubble car" running shuttles, Class 67s (soon replaced by Class 68s -- they briefly ran side-by-side though), Class 66s on freight with a Class 56 sometimes deputising, and semi-regular Class 20s haulage with LUL stock to and from Derby, from Ruislip. There was a phase when Voyagers were often routed this way during weekends/engineering works too. So it was very interesting around here at that time -- much more so than the BR/NSE days.

Indeedy. It's all about specificity these days. The Electrostars, 7xxs, 345s, 80xs, 66s, 168/170/171/172s, Voyagers/Meridians are solid performers at what they do. The limited amount of current mixed-traffic locomotives (like the 68s) have better reliability than their earlier counterparts and were easier to tweak to work with DVTs, etc.

And in terms of life in the modern world, I'm sure we're all a lot happier in our travels boarding a train that has arrived on time and has a 99% chance of getting us where we need to go, rather than some of those farces with clapped out Class 50s constantly failing in and out of Waterloo (for example) due to a mixture of age and inappropriate usage compared to their design spec. Modern stock can't be shoehorned into abject failure like that.

There's a certain appeal in an entity making the most of its resources (like the BR blues, such as Class 31s hauling Norwich-Birmingham stoppers... inefficiently... for instance). But the railways have done what they've needed to do, for the most part, and have adapted to far greater traffic density with increased reliability.