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Route/scenario Builder Tutorials

Discussion in 'Content Suggestions & Proposals' started by Buynot, Sep 2, 2018.

  1. Buynot

    Buynot Well-Known Member

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    I propose that there be tutorials for the route and scenario builders in Train Simulator, as it can be very difficult and frustrating when you jump into the builder for the first time, and have no idea as to how anything is supposed to work. I know that there are countless tutorials on You Tube on how to make routes and scenarios, but there should be a feature in-game to teach users how to make routes and scenarios. I would like to expand on this idea, but I wouldn't know how to do that without repeating myself over and over again.
     
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  2. darthtimon

    darthtimon New Member

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    I've only just got the game but I second this - my first glance at the world builder was daunting.
     
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  3. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I would NOT recommend in game tutorials on this, but a much more comprehensive help system somewhere online would be beneficial including text and video tutorials. The "Matt does TV" series has some good, if now relatively old and shitty looking (if still relevant) video
     
  4. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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    The World Builder needs to be changed. It is not user friendly at all . I suggest take a look at the world builder that Trainz simulator uses.
     
  5. Cat

    Cat Active Member

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    Don't wish for everything in life to be made easy, you'll be disappointed. The World Editor is complicated but therein lies it power and versatility. Learn to master something that is difficult and you'll get the satisfaction of achievement.
     
  6. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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    user friendly does not mean easy. The world edior has many issues that I am not going to sit here and list. I was in the editor the other day just messing with the tools and the editor crashed. there is nothing to master with that issue. a crash is a software problem. but comparing what I have used in the passed such as trainz simualtor. its so much better in that aspect. Model wise Train simualtor is just better. so there are many pros and cons. My point to that is to help each piece of software to be improved by those Pros and cons. The thing is nobody wants that challenge.
     
  7. Cat

    Cat Active Member

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    I understand your point but I don't have "issues" with the editor. Like any powerful tool it is bound to be complex and like any tool one must learn how to use it. DTG and 3rd party devs use the editor to create very complex and detailed routes which graphically are miles better than anything I have seen on trainz. I very much doubt that DTG will want to change a system that works so well for them and their 3rd party devs.

    And always remember the golden rule in the editor is to save every few minutes otherwise it will crash.
     
  8. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    This is a bit like comparing notepad to Word... Of course something like trainz is going to be easier to use because the game itself is a lot more basic. Personally I prefer the more complex full featured software even if there are bugs and issues in it, because when the end result comes out right it's ten times better than the more simpler product is capable of
     
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  9. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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    Trainz is not simple by any means. This editor is from the Unreal engine which is used to create 1st person shooter games. I dont want to spend time trouble shooting something I paid for that makes no sense.
     
  10. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I have never, in my twenty five years of PC technical work or use known a single piece of software that didn't need troubleshooting in some form. In fact I would apply that to almost every piece of technology I have ever owned.
     
  11. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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    I dont have that issue with most of my other games is the point. Flight simulator I hardly have an issue with.
     
  12. Cat

    Cat Active Member

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    Keith. with respect, you continue to compare TS with other sims/games. As has been pointed out before it's like comparing apples and oranges, it doesn't work like that. You are expecting too much of TS. You want user friendly this, train and station announcements, extra button to push and so on.

    Everything has it's limitations, the car you drive, the house you live in, your PC. TS has its limitations and you must learn to live within those confines. We all have a wish list of things we would like in TS but if you are asking and expecting too much of it then you will be disappointed. Learn to enjoy it for what it is.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
  13. Cat

    Cat Active Member

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    Keith,
    I have no intention of attacking or insulting you and I'm sorry that you have taken it in that way. However, as has been said before, you persist in comparing TS with other sims which is pointless. For example, if I bought a Ford I wouldn't expect it to perform like a Ferrari. There are limits to everything, you must be realistic about what can be done in TS.

    You want a user friendly editor; that would probably mean a total rewrite of the programming. I'm sure that DTG and other devs do not have the time and resources to do that.

    Station and in train announcements; for every station on every route and all the variables of that route, in English and American accents. in German, Japanese and Chinese. I think that would be an insurmountable task to finance, record and implement.

    Changeable destination boards; well some devs include this, it depends on the developer.

    Also TS is an old game that thanks to the skills of the developers has been vastly improved over the years. But they have to take into account the variables in the customers pcs and have to take a median. Overload with extra features and those with lower spec pcs will have crashes.

    I really don't wish to curb your enthusiasm, in an ideal world we all would like extra features, but we must be realistic in what is possible.

    Who knows? Maybe DTG might implement your ideas in TSW.
     
  14. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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    I dont have TSW. and after research some things there is a program that is 3rd party that allows you to do this with key strokes. Usually. but I think it could be in game. there are two spaces where the icons are on the driver HUD. the sound could be link there if its possible to that. 3rd party though is usually how its done. The only reason I am comparing is my experience between the two games and all that is suppose to do is help developers improve things.

    On your point on the lower pc specs. If you dont have a PC with at least a I5 64 windows with 16GB of RAM you will not be able to play this game. I would upgrade your PC when you can. Especially now with 64bit. and I advise Windows10 of course. I have an I7 Quad core 4.20 16GB RAM. I had windows Vista 64Bit on my last computer. so before you use TS2019 get a computer.

    adding some simple annoucements that fire off when you hit a key stroke is not going to take that much. and the 3rd party software that is called informator uses Mp3 and is a separate program. Still its possible to do somethings in game .

    if this game performed like a Ford I would not buy it.

    I am looking for realism. so annoucements are real on most trains. does not have to be for every train. TS2019 already has the train realism now just add some atmostphere realism.

    To me if Flight simulator can make it so you can fly around the world. Then I think TS can also do many things. For Instance. why not make it a virtual world where you can drive trains from Munich to London. Now doing that map takes time but how did Microsoft do it for Flight simulator. Flight simulator is used to train pilots. Why cant TS be used to Train Engineers. Thinking outside the box is what makes things roll.
     
  15. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    ChooChooKeith does that comparison with Flight Simulator work? Firstly what you see from the ground in Flight simulator or from the air is in many cases just a 'representation' of what it looks like. In some comes just tiles used to compose some form of representation of the scenery with in occasionally places of interest (let's say the Eiffel Tower) added in for atmosphere. They have been some scenery adds on to improve the situation, more recently photo realistic scenery, but they can run to hundreds of gigs of data and even when you look closely they're not three dimensional representations.
    TS scenery is very detailed - down to rail sleepers and signals - and therefore kept to 'tunnels' of information. So the issue with the virtual map is something beyond 'takes time', its a vast amount of data - probably exceeding what (at the present time) is physically possible or at least usable by consumer PCs.
    Then there's the cost. Yes it would be nice to have complete freedom to do what you want to - even if in the instance you've given there would be issues with driving trains from the UK to Germany (signaling etc.) and it's not a 'real world' simulation - it doesn't happen. In the end this hobby has a community barely big enough to support the DLC that's produced today. Having a virtual Railworld world wouldn't really expand that community much.
    It isn't that people aren't thinking out of the box, it's just not viable or commercial.
     
  16. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Going to be pedantic here... It's a lot easier to map thin air than gradients and inclines etc in train sim. To my knowledge you also cannot pause flight sim and walk down my local street. I CAN do this in TS (even if it's inaccurate)

    Also, Microsoft have access to a global positioned mapping system, so they already have the mapping overlays to put in picture form onto the ground. This doesn't mean that they have to 3d model every tree or bush, again this is commented upon on this forum so people DO expect this in TS.

    Lastly, I don't think MS go out to every airport and take pictures of the textures of the runways in every airport in the world. It doesn't affect the way the planes feel or work, so why would they? DTG and others have stated they do this for station platforms, tunnel textures etc.
    With people like JustTrains taking up to three YEARS to make content for the game, and that's about 120 miles of track, scenery assets and so on (no trains) it's not just DTG either.
     
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  17. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Just on this one point... There has been a train that drove from China to the UK, including across europe and through the Chunnel. I believe the changeovers were at the russian and chinese borders where the cargo had to be physically shifted. A class 92 DB loco was used on the euro legs
    There's also the new ICE / Eurostar trains that run from St Pancras to Amsterdam and supposedly (once they've finished the Cologne upgrade program) into Germany... This does open up the possibility of one train unit driving from the North of Scotland through Germany and beyond.

    It may never actually happen, but at least in part it HAS happened
     
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  18. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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  19. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    If you physically shift cargo, change locos and bogies yes there aren’t too many limitations on what you can do. Incidentally the China to the UK train seemed a little bit of a publicity stunt to me.

    But covering for these exceptions in a virtual world of Train Simulation? I’m already getting worried about the length of session to do Penzance to London when JT finish Western Mainlines. Taking freight from the UK to China, at least for me personally might be a bigger commitment to the game than I want to make. You also know, with DTG, you’d be just past Omsk and you’d get an access violation error.

    Plus of course the cost of building the data to support this world would result in TSxxxx costing about the same as a well equipped Porsche, but I guess I could wait for the 60% off sale.
     
  20. Cat

    Cat Active Member

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    You're not proposing this for a route are you? ;)

    Of course RW train driver usually only drive certain sections of routes that they have the "knowledge" of. It would be unrealistic to drive from Clapham Junction to Katchenjunga.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
  21. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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    Well you have the API Google map why not utilize that in order to make extended routes.
    Yes the mapping is different in fligth sim but you can do somethings with Google maps to make things easier
    These are just brainstorming things. build on it or give other directions to go.
    I am not saying drive from China to England.
    but there are routes that connect Europe countries together so why not simulate that.
    In The united States there are trains that connect to each other so make those routes happen.
    these would be regions not the whole world. but I see where you think I was thinking that but thats not what I was thinking with the comparision to make something happen like flight sim. I was only saying with relations to flight sim they have made things happen that was not there before. fligth sim has been around since the 80's. During that time you could not fly around the world.

    By the way you can pause flight sim and go down the street.

    Those of you wanting Multiplayer in Train sim. that might not be able to happen either because of all the things that go into that.
    check out VATSIM.net which is a flight sim community that is multiplayer and just check out what you have to use to do it .

    Then think about a multiplayer type network that would fit Train sim. is this really possible? if you guys think annoucements cant be done in train sim then how the heck is a multiplayer evironment going to be implemented.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
  22. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Brainstorming is fine, but you then keep talking about accuracy and realism. If you want a spitball "drive anywhere" system fine, but it wouldn't be realistic and people would rip it apart on a micro level.
    Christ, people rip the heck out of the texture on the dashboard of a single train let alone whether 50 miles of track is only relatively accurate from space!
     
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  23. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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  24. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    [1] The Class 92 was used from Calais as they don't have SNCF Signalling so could not work further south even though the Voltage is correct.
    [2] You could not run a Eurostar Class 374/DB 407 from anywhere north of London as they are too big for normal UK Loading gauge.
     
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  25. ChooChooKeith

    ChooChooKeith Active Member

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    no those seem to be more local trains. the trains that would travel long distances are the speed trains. ICE for instance or The LGV. those are the trains that would connect you. now you could use some of the local lines to take you to different stations depending on their route and then you would hop into an ICE or LGV to take you on the long distance Route. If the actually route does not take you say from London to Munich with a Eurostar then thats not the train you take. you have to use an ICE Train connection. not all trains are long distance.
     

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