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Same Junk Different Day! What In Heavens Name?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by gdjsky01, Sep 17, 2021.

  1. gdjsky01

    gdjsky01 New Member

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    I just tried my FIRST BR-143 tutorial on the new Dresden route. EVERYTIME I STOP at Priestewitz I am locked out. No SIFA. No LZB. No PZB. In a GD TUTORIAL! Everything to zero. White power indicator. Doors are closed. Brakes back to running. Reverser in forward. Add power. RED LOCKOUT! No indication of why. This is rediculous.

    WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU DTG QA? WHY are you incapable of creating a simple tutorial? And testing it? WHY?

    Why do I keep buying this JUNK? (That is a completely different thread!)
     
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  2. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Can take a few seconds for brake pressure to release. Wait until the pressure in the brake cilinders reaches zero, then try applying power.
     
  3. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    I managed to complete the tutorial first try without issues, so theoretically it should work just fine. Are you sure it is not an user based error?
     
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  4. Ant Craft

    Ant Craft Well-Known Member

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    While Riesa - Dresden definitely has it's issues, I was able to complete all the tutorials without any issues. The brakes on the DB BR 143 are quite slow to release, and the power indicator will stay locked out until the brakes are completely released, so your issue may just be the fact you haven't given it a chance to fully release.
     
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  5. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    I was first taken aback on the tutorial on he amount of time it took for the throttle to become responsive, but then started to watch the brake pressure on the gauges (as one should in RL). Waiting to have the brakes released eliminated any frustration and finished the tutorial.
     
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  6. conniethunder

    conniethunder Active Member

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    I found with the german locos that releasing all brakes once you've stopped and opened the doors helps a little when you are ready to leave.
    As mentioned, the brakes have to be at 0 so hold the brake release (bail off) if you want it to reduce quicker. This is the only time you will get the White power box when you try to re-apply power. Also, some trains are faster/better than others at doing this.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
  7. StokesJH

    StokesJH Member

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    This is what I also sometimes do, but of course only if the grade of the track is 0, otherwise the train starts rolling and passenger loading is stopped.
     
  8. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Please don‘t do that. Release is not a bail-off position but an overcharge position. Unless there are dragging brakes on the train, stay away from release.
     
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  9. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    I would like to know more about this!

    IMG_20210917_162750.jpg
     
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  10. LWDAdnane

    LWDAdnane Active Member

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    Yes, I'd also like to know more about this, as sometimes as the train is going I will hold release if I'm not satisfied with the pressure.
     
  11. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Just to make sure we‘re all on the same page, a bail-off position on a brake handle releases the loco brakes while keeping the brakes on the cars applied (if they are already applied). This is a feature in pretty much all North American locos and is used in much the same way as brake timings in UK and Germany to avoid cars slamming onto the loco while initiating a brake application.

    The release position on UK and German trains overcharges the brake pipe. Essentially, this can be used in an effort to get stuck brakes loose. This excess pressure is then slowly bled off over some minutes time. The flip side of this (and why you should stay away from it) is that if the brakes are applied while the brake pipe is overcharged, you will need to overcharge the brake pipe again to release the brakes as the normal brake pipe pressure is no longer enough for that. You need to wait for the pressure to bleed off to normal levels before using the brakes again.
     
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  12. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    BC has to be ZERO.
    If it is, switch speed selector <>OFF<>ON<>OFF<>... // if necessary :)
     
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  13. LWDAdnane

    LWDAdnane Active Member

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    Thank you for your detailed explanation!
     
  14. tbaac

    tbaac Active Member

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    Nope, you're all wrong. It can't possibly be user error. Not after an opening post like that. That would be really embarrassing, so I'm sure that it's not the case.

    edit: I take this back slightly. I think that the OP could have done a little bit more to investigate it themselves rather than rubbishing the game and the testers, but at the same time it is true that the tutorials could be a bit clearer and this has turned into perhaps a useful discussion.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
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  15. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    Are you talking about the train or the Poster? ;)
     
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  16. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you very much, excellent explanation. It's quite a difficult subject for those of us who don't understand compressed air braking systems.
    I admit that I always get this wrong, especially on the BR 363 :|
     
  17. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, the name release for the overcharge position is misleading without the proper knowledge.
     
  18. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    No, open doors first (which automatically puts on enough brake pressure to hold the train), then release the train brake. You'll get a much faster start after you close the doors.

    You won't get the "passenger loading is stopped" situation on a German train like you can on some UK trains. All DB trains have the door-brake interlock.
     
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  19. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    While I think the OP is over the top, I can appreciate that the tutorial probably should have included an explanation or instruction, at least for the 143: "wait for the brakes to fully release."
     
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  20. tbaac

    tbaac Active Member

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    If we're being constructive, what I would have preferred is some description of what it looks like when the brakes release (in-cab and on-hud) so you know what you're waiting for. You work it out yourself in the end anyway, but it would have been helpful to start with.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
  21. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That gets into the broader issue of the tutorials being vastly less informative than they should be. Instead of "these are the brake gauges so you can monitor the various systems" it should tell you what each gauge and needle actually means, and the same with every other display and interactable control in the cab. Not to mention at least a basic explanation of how pneumatic brakes work!

    The sort of thing that used to be addressed in manuals.......
     
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  22. tbaac

    tbaac Active Member

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    Yeah agreed, although it didn't need a huge amount I think. Just some way of highlighting the gauge on HUD and in cab at the same time and saying "This one will go to zero" and maybe "this one is the Brake Pipe pressure and...". For extra credit it could explain how it works, but I think just showing you what the gauge values should be would be useful as well.
     
  23. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I wonder- since the 143 is a dual-purpose loco, is it possible that its default setup is with brakes set to Goods mode, rather than Passenger or Rapid?
     
  24. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    On the previous model of the 143 I used to leave the speed selector at the line speed when stopping (like you may do with AFB) and when I released the brake after a station stop, the power would be applied automatically when they were released enough. Is that not the case with the new one? I can’t check at present because Sony have temporarily stolen my Dresden route with the new model in it. I hadn’t done the tutorial for the 143 before it went missing. I had done some 143 services but I could have been in the old model.
     
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  25. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Now you have to ZERO it (OFF position).
    * if you used the brake - even if it did not stop the train
     
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  26. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    Isn't the interlock supposed to allow traction again once 1.2bar is reached? So it is at the very least overstaying its welcome.

    Cheers
     
  27. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I believe that is an issue currently, I thought Matt even mentioned it himself in one of the streams.

    There is probably someone who has properly sourced info on that though.
     
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  28. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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  29. conniethunder

    conniethunder Active Member

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    But all this is described and written thoroughly in those manuals that you can download for every route and loco, right??
    Mawahahaha! ;)
     
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  30. tbaac

    tbaac Active Member

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    Now that I'm admitting to have had a few issues with the tutorials as well, I'd add that it is complicated further if you have a Raildriver (and presumably likewise when support for other hardware is added). Because the axes on the RD stay in one position (similar to a throttle quadrant for a flight sim), if your hardware isn't set the same way as the tutorial assumes then it could stop the brakes from charging. So, it would be useful to include on the start screen what the assumed positions for hardware controls are (e.g. Power Lever at 0, Train Brake at full application (/released), reverser in the middle position, etc. When I did one of the tutorials and it said to wait for the brakes to charge, I thought "Is my hardware in the wrong place? Maybe it'll never charge!".
     
  31. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Thing is though, would your average route manual go into this kind of minutiae? I'm beginning to think that one reason for the absence of manuals for TSW is that, to be exhaustive, they would have to be excessively long and detailed. Just covering the cab controls would need a hefty number of pages. The person who writes the manuals would need a great deal of expertise and an intimate knowledge of each locomotive. Given the current catalog, it would be a daunting and expensive task requiring at least a small team of experts.
     
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  32. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Come to think of it, the only person I've heard who has this kind of expertise and intimacy with the locos is MP himself. And executive producers don't write manuals. :):)
     
  33. conniethunder

    conniethunder Active Member

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    But all the research has already been done when it comes to the route, and the locos are +90% copies of what we already have from another route.
    I would say 1 very detailed manual for British, American, German safety systems would pretty much cover almost all the work for future manuals. A nice map of the entire route and loco cab switches also wouldn't be much more work for each new release after the 'initial' set of manuals was produced. I think the cost of these DLCs should include something very thorough like I mention.
     
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  34. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    We have the esc key in game to access several information pages, why not add an extra one for the loco your driving.
     
  35. tbaac

    tbaac Active Member

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    The best we can hope for I think is that community member(s) produces manuals. Interesting things like the brake modes don't get covered in tutorials or used most times when people are driving in TSW on youtube. So you'd have had to see them mention it in specific streams, or to have read relevant posts on the forum. The brake modes is a great feature and one that you can generally ignore if you want to, but is one that could be included in a community-generated manual.
     
  36. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Define "excessive."

    FTLOG, digital manuals aren't restricted by the cost of printing and shipping......
     
  37. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    You are correct - but the lengthier they are the less they are read.... While I loved the very indepth and lengthy manual provided with F16 Fighting Falcon game in the golden age of manuals, I doubt more than 10 % of the players ever really read anything but the "Fast Start" section. While the dirge of missing manuals in TSW2 (and quality of those in TSClassic for that matter) really isn't acceptable -- the historic tomes of yesteryear will probably never be returning for the fact most just want a "quick start" and not indepth system discussions
     
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  38. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Well, I for one want a comprehensive reference- not to read through like a novel, but for whenever I have a question that needs answering.
     
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  39. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    That‘s exactly why I ranked a written manual first in the last survey. A stream, video, or even an in-game tutorial is pretty much useless when I already know most things I need and just need to look up that one specific feature of a loco etc.
     
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  40. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I think this would be solved by having a searchable library of instructions including signalling, safety systems, specific examples etc, which could easily be hyperlinked between
    The problem seems to be how people on console access such a thing when it wouldn't be necessarily in game...
    Can't expect someone to put their controller down to actually look it up on the internet...
     
  41. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    You're right. And the trend has been, for some time now, not to include detailed printed manuals with even the most complex and expensive products. When I bought a pretty high-end 4k monitor recently, it came with only a short, "fold out" quick start manual which basically just told me how to plug it in and switch it on. The real manual was on the web site. It would have been an enormous task to print it out so I didn't bother. But I'm old-fashioned. I like the printed word. I can't read stuff on the screen. I would love a full reference, printed manual for TSW locos, but I doubt we'll ever see one now.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
  42. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    XBox and Playstation alike have web browsers.....
     
  43. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Don't know if you can use them without leaving the game... if you can then no issue I guess
     
  44. davejc64

    davejc64 Well-Known Member

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    Just don't get why DTG have taken the stance of not providing manuals anymore. :(
     
  45. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Loved that Falcon F16 manual.
    Essential bedtime reading.
     
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  46. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Obviously one has to change screens, but no need to quit out of TSW or any other game. Simply leave it paused, kick out to desktop and open browser window, just like on a PC
     
  47. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Multi-monitors... don't have to leave game at all (in windowed mode). Just right click and move off screen.
    So if you can use browsers on console to read these things then a simple wiki would do.
     
  48. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

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    That doesn’t work on the new one and for good reason. When you braked the train, the pressure monitoring locked the traction and to reset it the “pilot pressure” (Vorsteuerungdruck) has to decrease below ~ 1.0 bar (when stopped) and then the speed selector lever has to be reset. Otherwise the loco would start rolling again when brakes were released.

    I think that even using the (non implemented) “Freier Auslauf” or free rundown button on the speed selector lever would still require a reset of the lever after brakes had been released but I’m not 100% sure about that.
     
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  49. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

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    The default state of the locomotives used in passenger traffic on DRA is R-brake. For the BR185 the default state is P-brake and for the *freight* wagons it is based on train weight (<1600t => all P, otherwise all G). Hence some interaction from the player is necessary for freight trains but not on passenger trains (in normal service). The BR363 does not (afaik) have a brake setting switch in the game.
     
  50. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    A shame that this is missing. Seems like a really useful program. But I shouldn‘t complain seeing how many other upgrades the 143 got with DRA :)
     

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