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Scarlett

Discussion in 'Xbox Discussion' started by R62A1973, Dec 2, 2019.

  1. R62A1973

    R62A1973 Active Member

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    Will there more options when the new Xbox console comes out next year?
     
  2. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin New Member

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    Be nice if we got a proper graphics uplift
     
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  3. Fitz

    Fitz Member

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    Personally, for a grpahics point of view I think the games still looks great. What I would like though, is an increase in draw distance and frame rate like the PC version, also increase in AI train movements to match the PC. All this is scaled back for console performance.
     
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  4. BBIAJ

    BBIAJ Member

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    They can't even be bothered to X Enhance it, so I doubt it somehow
     
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  5. russianchip

    russianchip Member

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    It’s still showing as enhanced, 4K Ultra HD and HDR on the Xbox site enhanced games list as being available now. As I’ve said in another thread, it was tweeted that it would be enhanced!
     
  6. BBIAJ

    BBIAJ Member

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    Yup, the Xbox.com site has had it listed incorrectly for some time now.

    Do you have a link to the tweet? Is it by Dovetail, as they've strenuously denied it would be enhanced in the past.
     
  7. russianchip

    russianchip Member

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  8. russianchip

    russianchip Member

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    I’m not technical but copied it from the other thread and I think it’s worked, the attachment showed the Twitter response.
     
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  9. russianchip

    russianchip Member

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    Still showing on the list as Xbox One X Enhanced, 4K and HDR! Hopefully anyone buying isn’t mislead by this.
     
  10. dreampage

    dreampage Member

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    The developers have said in a thread somewhere here that they simply can't squeeze out more from consoles. Since TSW is a simulator it's extremely CPU heavy, and consoles have extremely weak CPUs. Even though the Xbox One X has a powerful 6 TFLOPS GPU, it has essentially the same processor as the base Xbox One (and the S), only 31% faster. It's not enough to run this game at a stable 60 fps or higher resolution.

    The Xbox Series X console (Project Scarlett) will be fully compatible with all Xbox One games, so in theory the developers could release an update that makes use of that extra power, and scale TSW to full 4K resolution at 60 fps with potentially higher graphical settings. Whether they choose to do it or not remains to be seen. The next console will have a much newer and faster CPU so even if there's no patch at all, it will easily max out the game at 60 fps, given it already uses an unlocked framerate. But for the resolution to be higher, the developers have to adjust the game. I hope they'll do it.

    Also, let's keep in mind that there will probably be a second, cheaper new Xbox (my guess is it will be called Series S). According to the rumours it will have the same architecture as the Series X, but with a weaker GPU fit for 1080p or 1440p gaming instead of 4K/8K. If this cheaper machine has the same CPU as the X, then it will be possible to run TSW on it with a stable 60 fps at the same resolution, or maybe a bit higher. Again, it's down to the developers whether they choose to optimize for so many console configurations or not.

    What's certain is that the new AMD Zen2 CPUs of the new consoles will enable TSW to run much smoother than it does today, no matter if Dovetail patches it or not.
     
  11. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    If the core simulation – the "CPU heavy" bit – isn't changing, and the train power, systems, physics, movement are all unchanged, surely moving from a PS4 to a PS4 Pro, for example, with a more capable GPU (4.2 TFLOP vs 1.84) would enable you to output that same video at a higher resolution without an increased CPU overhead? Isn't that the whole point of them upping the GPU without fiddling too much with the CPU? Not even the textures would need to change - you'd just see it in more detail on the higher spec machine at 4K (or whatever upscaling thing it does).
     
  12. dreampage

    dreampage Member

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    The problem with the enhanced consoles is that they were upgraded in an asymmetric fashion. Their GPUs have become much more powerful but their CPUs remained the same, only overclocked by a few percent. While the Xbox One X's graphics unit is 4x more powerful than Xbox One S (400%), its CPU is only 31% faster. The processor probably wouldn't be able to handle all the draw calls needed for a higher resolution, since it can't cope with this game even at the current resolution. Framerate is already unstable at this level, if the developers raised the resolution then framerate would tank even more. I would agree with you if the current version ran at a happy 60 fps with overhead, but the game is already struggling. It's useless to have such a powerful GPU is there is no CPU to support it.

    The two parameters (framerate and resolution) are of course not independent from each other. So it's not like CPU "handles" framerate only, and the GPU is responsible for resolution only. The way it works is more like the GPU is the muscle and the CPU is the brain. But for higher resolutions the brain had to process more data as well. Since TSW is already stuttering and struggling at the current resolution, it would run even worse at a higher pixel count, since there is already no overhead whatsoever. No room to improve. Whether it's down to optimization, the Unreal Engine or simply the nature of this kind of simulation, doesn't matter in the end.
     
  13. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I was under the impression both of those were mainly the domain of the GPU, the CPU playing a supporting role by telling it where stuff is at each frame. The CPU is doing all the sim maths and physics (which, granted, in TSW is Very Complicated), and working out that this 3D model with these textures should be at this position, with this velocity at this time, and the GPU translates that onto your screen. I get that that's quite a simplified view, but that's exactly why they've been upgraded in an asymmetric way - because that's what's needed to make a HD game output at 4K.

    Since the 3D model is essentially a vector object and doesn't become any more complicated, the work the CPU is doing for the simulation shouldn't scale as the resolution does, since things like draw distance, the number of objects being processed at any one time and the textures applied to them will all still remain the same. The simulation job that the CPU is doing certainly doesn't become 4x as complicated. It's like looking at a complex, vector Illustrator file - the CPU is keeping track of the objects on screen and all the parameters associated with them, but it's the GPU's job to display that on your monitor and a better graphics card will be able to do that at 2160 and beyond while a low end one might only manage 1080p, or at least struggle and lag when pushed higher.

    The PS4 Pro seems to get a marginally better frame rate than the standard PS4 based on anecdotal forum evidence, but there doesn't seem to be any real benefit to having four times the graphical power - we're certainly not seeing the benefits of other enhanced games. Is this just inefficiencies within the game engine where the CPU is doing tasks which should be offloaded to the graphics chips or is it just that DTG haven't put in the option to switch it? There's no intrinsic limitation within UE4 that would stop it trying to output 4K. I'd be really interested to just have the option to switch it up to 4K on PS4 Pro (or have a vid from the developers doing that) to see what the result is. A few other games are enhanced in exactly this way - the level of graphic detail in terms of how much stuff is being processed isn't changed, but the output resolution is.
     
  14. dreampage

    dreampage Member

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    The difference between base PS4 and Pro is smaller than between Xbox One S and X. Developers therefore tend to be more conservative when choosing resolution for the enhanced games, often resulting in better performance. This is another interesting comparison, since PS4 Pro's CPU is only around 8-9% slower than Xbox One X's, while its GPU is 30% "weaker". But the result is a more balanced system overall. Developers don't have to aim as high with the resolution while having almost the same CPU speed as on X.

    I'm really not sure whether Unreal Engine 4 is the best choice for current consoles, though. It is a flexible engine but has many drawbacks if not optimized properly. Huge download sizes, slow loading speeds, lower resolution and framerate than desired, see basically all the Japanese UE4 games from Bandai Namco, for example. Tekken 7 running at 720p on Xbox One, and it needs a PS4 Pro to even reach 1080p? Quite ridiculous in my opinion. There are very few UE4 games on consoles that are properly optimized, lean and fast.

    How exactly TSW works we don't know. On one hand, it's a simulator so it's especially CPU heavy, calculating all the physics and whatnot. On the other hand, it's a multi-platform game primarily developed on PC where you can brute force through any performance problems with better hardware. And Dovetail is not a huge company, they probably don't have the resources to optimize the game for low-end hardware as the current consoles. I also don't think it's so easy to move CPU tasks for the GPU, if it's possible at all.

    I personally can't wait for the new consoles to come out, and finally buy one that is capable of running 60 fps games as a standard. I'm sick of this low performance every day. I can only imagine how much better an experience TSW can be with a smooth framerate and without stuttering.
     

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