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Sehs - Railtours

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by LucasLCC, Feb 5, 2021.

  1. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    The Railtours are a nice addition to use some locos that are otherwise confined to the scenario planner / much slower routes.

    However, why are the WSR locos missing from this? I'd love to thrash the 33 without having to use the user unfriendly scenario planner. The simple change of enabling this could cause more people to buy the 33/52...
     
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  2. GuitarMan

    GuitarMan Well-Known Member

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    I have a feeling it will be down to the WSR locos being paired with MK1 carriages therefore being vacuum braked. I think (someone will correct me if I am wrong) the MK2 carriages from NTP are air braked, and therefore the WSR locos are not configured in game to run with these carriages (as the carriages on WSR are only vac braked).
     
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  3. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    I do not own the Class 33 or 52, so I cannot comment on their functionality, but the WSR Class 47 does have the ability to switch between Air and Vacuum brakes, and the switch does work properly.

    Cheers
     
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  4. Ben_Broomfield

    Ben_Broomfield Active Member

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    Could be wrong, but I thought the 33 has dual-brake functionality unless (for some reason!) it’s not been simulated?

    If it not having dual-brake functionality is restricting the amount of stock they can use for railtour scenarios, then I don’t understand why it wouldn’t be a problem for the 33 to be implemented in a layer with just Mk1’s? Would much rather have that than the NTP stock personally!
     
  5. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    I believe it's more a problem with DTG not making them work than the actual trains themselves.
     
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  6. Ben_Broomfield

    Ben_Broomfield Active Member

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    Ah. Real shame although no surprise there from DTG.

    Still, as mentioned, if that’s the problem restricting the 33 being used on these types of scenarios then I see no issue with it being added in on a separate layer with just compatible stock such as the Mk1’s.
     
  7. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    It's my understanding that the 33 and 47 on WSR have working air brakes, so I don't believe this is the reason. However, it could be a case that they're not simulated.

    TrainSim-Matt - Apologies in advance for the tag, but can you shine some light on if this is the case? And if it's not the case, then please can the 33 be enabled? (And on ECW too idealy)
     
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  8. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    It's down to how the trains are tagged - currently the only way I think I can get the 33, 52 etc into the RailTours would be to enable all the WSR trains - which may or may not work, i'll need to test it and find out.

    The other challenge is that the WSR stock is all set up to switch to Vacuum by default - and I believe we have a setting now in timetable config that let's me set that default so it works automatically in which case all good - but if not, then that would mean all the WSR trains start in vacuum mode and wouldn't work until switched in to Air mode. While that's fine for some of us, others would just get super frustrated at a train that refuses to work for no obvious reason.

    An additional railtour just using WSR stock is of course an option but... I didn't want to overdo the railtours to where service mode felt like it was rail-tour swamped, in reality such things are rare of course :)

    Matt.
     
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  9. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the detailed and helpful reply Matt. It would be amazing if you could try and see if the WSR stock works.

    I can't see many complaints if a third rail tour snuck in with the WSR stock!
     
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  10. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Would it not be possible to put a note in the service mode description saying "be sure the brake mode is set to air" so it appears when you start? I may be making this up but I'm sure I've seen a similar thing on another route's timetable.

    It would be nice to see WSR stock railtour - would it be possible to have a route with a railtour using WSR mk1s instead of the NTP mk2s, with the BR Blue stuff substituting if desired?
     
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  11. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    No, currently service mode can't issue any instructions to players like scenarios can. Something i'd like to see improved in the future :)
     
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  12. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    I think Cameron was referring to the description before you select a service. I know the NTP Vans state that you must use vacuum with them.
     
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  13. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Yes that description field doesnt seem to work judging by how many times I hear of people getting stuck :) I think it's more that if you're not of a mind to already know to do it - you probably don't know *how* to do it.

    But, i'll take a look and see what can be done for WSR stock - without making any promises at all, of course.
     
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  14. Jamy

    Jamy Active Member

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    it would be great I've never driven the class 52 and 33 above 25mph
     
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  15. kalteVollmilch

    kalteVollmilch Well-Known Member

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    So considering that the 09 is also a WSR train, does that mean one could do a rail tour with a 09? :D
     
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  16. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    I guess it would be like going on a road trip in the Journey in GTA5... You'll be going nowhere fast.
     
  17. Cyklisten

    Cyklisten Active Member

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    I think that passengers from all the trains behind you will find you and give you some "special treatment". And don't even try to get to St. Pancras. Please.
     
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  18. MatsH

    MatsH Member

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    I think the idea with railtours is great and they are really fun to drive. I do agree though that you wouldn't want to overdo them, since every service is run every day, and it might be a bit much when you are driving the regular services. That said though, I like meeting them as well and see what loco is pulling :)

    However I'd like to see a couple of changes to the existing railtour-services if possible:
    • I think the loco is on backwords in the consists. The gradient-indicator is showing uphill when you are going down and vice versa. Would it be possible to flip the loco around?
    • It would be nice if the return-journey would just put the loco on the other end of the consist. As it stands right now, the whole consist is flipped around. This of course means that the loco will be going backwords in one direction and forwards in the other ;)
    Anyway, thanks for all your hard work. Now I'm off to drive the last railtour-service :)
     
  19. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    This has been done because the class 20 is very difficult to drive in the opposite direction. TSW doesn't seem to handle the locos being in reverse, and it's something that needs looking at
     
  20. MatsH

    MatsH Member

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    Ahh, I hadn't thought of that. Not beeing british myself I'm not really a big fan of the class 20. Also, I've always invisioned them in pairs, with one cab at each end. But I suppose that wouldn't work with substitution, replacing one loco with two.
     
  21. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    That is true, but the cab end of a single class 20, regardless of if it's coupled to another one, is classed as the 'rear'. At least as far as the game is concerned.
     
  22. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    I know that this step would be... controversial as it might take away content from people only having NTP and not WSR, but if substitution wouldn't be an option, what about hard replacement of one pair by WSR stock. You'd have a "blue pair" and a "red pair" :D
     
  23. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I think the Class 20 has been more trouble than it’s worth. I’d sooner they took it out of the railtour substitutions to fix all the other locos’ orientation. I don’t know why they didn’t make the model of the Class 20 so that the front of the loco was the rear of the model. I suppose they found out too late or just didn’t think that it would cause the issues it has. Because of that one oversight all other locos will now be back to front forever. This could be a whole topic in its own right because of the issues caused by trains thinking they are reversing.
     
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  24. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, that idea may not see the light of day as it's taking content away, however, would it be possible to have one railtour only use WSR mk1s, but only if one owns WSR, otherwise it uses the NTP mk2s?
     
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  25. DominusEdwardius

    DominusEdwardius Active Member

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    The front of a Class 20 is the fan end (not cab end) so it technically is correct :P
     
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  26. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    And because of that, it’s reversed in the consist, so all the other locos spawn backwards too and the game can’t cope with a loco driving from the No 2 cab, expecting a No 1 cab at the front of every train. It’s not always the fault of a Class 20, it’s always been an issue for locos that have services driven from the second cab. The game has trouble with it.
     
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  27. Stephen Crofts

    Stephen Crofts Well-Known Member

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    Surely the consist is also modelled with a front and a back (mark 2 stock has a mark 1 brake correctly modelled at the back). Take the front of the consist to determine the trains direction instead of the loco model.
     
  28. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you can use the warning popup as done with change of traction power in LGV services. I remember this to be displayed as I reported an error about this message indeed affecting the services not the scenarios. Other option is to use the "Wait for service" starting instruction with a custom message about brakes. Or even a dummy "go via location" instruction ahead of train with a custom message about brake setup instead of the name of the trackside marker on it. I don´t know if those things are possible but those two instructions are used in many services.

    And last but not least is to use the service initial message. All you need to do is to include the brake message in the service description and it will appear also in the service initial message. It´s maybe the easiest way and you have the message always displayed so it´s hard not to notice the brake warning there.

    TS2Prototype-Win64-Shipping 2021-02-08 09-48-10.png

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2021

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