Sherman Hill = Another Definitive Feedback Thread, How Would You Answer These?

Well I finished my run down into Cheyenne. I really think the braking performance on the consists is not quite as it should be - shouldn't take a full service application in conjunction with Notch 8 dynamics to significantly slow a train on a 0.8% falling gradient. In addition to the grass affecting performance I do wonder if Simugraph is overcharging the CPU/GPU on the multiple calculations for a 8000ft+ consist, which jointly kills the FPS and stops the brakes working as they should.

Also who's bright idea was to put the scenario end stop marker about 8 feet in front of a red signal with such a heavy train and inefficient braking. Luckily I pulled up with a couple of feet to spare but it's really not how things should be done.

 

I am finding running the 11000-13000 tonne services up the grade with banking comm on I can get the trains up to about 20mph. As soon as I get to 1.5% grade they wheelslip to a halt. I've tried riding the independent brake and notching down but I just stop quicker. Happens about 80kn force and in snow conditions.

Any advice please?

 

Did you put it in forward before turning on banking comm?

 

Yeah to be honest (and I'm a sandpatch verteran) I was under the impression it was on now to begin with, it wasn't though so although the banker throttled up I'm not sure I had full support on the incline early enough. I may give it another whirl

 

That sounds to me like you were running out of air. Did you make sure that the the rear brake pipe was at 89/90 psi every time before applying the brakes?

 

Got the route in the sale, and the Clinchfield too.

First thing I noticed playing some switching scenario, the hand throw targets foul the rolling stock running over the switches.
A trainman riding a car will get injured, maimed or killed.

Also, do those highway overpasses and the long viaduct over the Cheyenne yard have really have no or so few pillars supporting the deck? DTG defying gravity?

About the locomotive, why are the step lights on by default on every engine in the consist during broad daylight?
"Banking comm" by a button on the radio, while the display function dialog isn't active?

Checking the EOTD, it says CSXT, LOL

Brand new DLC, discounted to 75%, so no complaints there.
Sound improvement mod already applied.

Now waiting for the rest of the fixes, scenery, performance, variety, some realistic weathering.

Speaking of fixes, the Cane Creek UP AC4400CW can make an appearance on some AI train I've seen in a video.
Has the rear truck been put under the locomotive body the right way already, now it is almost a year after Cane Creek's release?

Can it be driven in a scenario over Sherman Hill even?

 

As far as I can tell, yes. Though in truth I never saw the EOT go above 85 the whole run which may again come back to Simugraph struggling with so many calculations - at one point the clock was taking something like three seconds to tick one second.

I have extensive experience of driving trains in Run 8 including descending both sides of Tehachapi and a 20 PSI set on the brakes has always been sufficient to get the train under control and even if releasing and re-apply before the rear has fully equalised.

 

DTG’s beta groupd advised them that they should always be on according to official rules.

Hm, ok. Seeing how you’ve got Run 8 experience, I won’t attempt teaching you anything new about US brakes
Still, seems odd that you needed that much brake force. Only time I needed that much was when I was playing around with the brakes on a downhill run (on purpose to see how far I can push it before everything goes wrong) and (almost) ended up with a runaway train.

 

How fast you drive that train?

I managed the 1.5% downhill run driving the 11,000 tons manifest train, with 3 SD70ACe upfront + 1 SD70ACe rear-end DPU. I only apply about 10-11 psi reduction in the auto brake and apply 62,5% - 75% (Position 5 - 6) dynamic brake. I'm only doing about 25-30 mph, not pushing the mainline speed limit.

 

Around 35 MPH on the 1.5% section.
Sorry, but the train brakes should be quite capable of not only slowing but stopping the consist, otherwise are we saying the US inherently runs a very unsafe railway system?

 

I suppose that's an understandable point of view, but it's great if you want a relaxing ride and good open scenery, compared to more closed spaces that most routes feature. And with the shorter trains you can actually go pretty quick both uphill and downhill.

 

OldVern, do you remember which service you chose? I’d like to have a go at it myself when I’ve got time for it.

 

I couldn't find any reference to this in the official and very detailed UP documents available online:
SSI
GCOR
nor in the older rulebooks that aren't behind the employee login, nor in the older employee timetables available online.

Are there even people from the US properly knowledgeable in that beta group, let alone an active UP employee?

Anyway, to cut a discussion about this beta group short, is there a way to modify some settings file to have those steplights off?

To those of you interested: Schnauzapowahz Youtube channel has all kinds of reviews, detailed break downs of routes and trains, very informative.

 

It was the third one in Journey mode which I think is the 1056 from Hermosa to Cheyenne in the Timetable.

 

OldVern you pic has changed from a majestic train to a retirement home chair. Is all ok?

 

Just dropping a not so subtle hint to Matt that the Mark Ones in SOS must not have BR Blue or grey/check (known as Trojan) moquette! Although in reality I am retired but nowhere near going in a care home, not that I would anyway given all that's happened in the last couple of years...

 

OldVern, I just did your run to keep me occupied during the roadmap stream and couldn’t reproduce your brake behaviour. On the 1.5% downwards gradient, I could easily control the train with around B4-6 at 30mph and could push it as far as 50mph. At 50mph, the train was stable with auto brake at initial reduction and dynamics around B6/7.

In case there’s a link to performance as you suspected, I was running the PS5 version on PS5.

 

If you'd like a challenge try the 11000t ethanol train on the uphill run. Put snow on, put snowing too.

I get 15 mile from the end(it's the service that only runs to the summit) and it stalls out .
Banking is on.

I've tried the hill start protocol to get it moving again and it just slide back down hill. Independent brake won't hold the train (even holding it on notch 2)

It seems irrecoverable.

 

I am doing the first run in the timetable, Cheyenne to Laramie, mixed modal. I have banking on and sat until my rear break pressure hit 70 before taking off. Moved to full power very quickly as I knew grade would kill my speed. Got up to about 27 before the grade went to .8, then 1.0, then 1.5. Speed slowly dropping until I got to about 15mph. They my acceleration maintained my speed even though the grade remained at 1.5. Guess they are doing something to remedy that and at least keep the train moving. Just wondering why these consists always seem to have barely enough traction to power up inclines or manage the descents more easily. Do the real railroads create consists like this or is DTG doing it to make it more difficult on purpose?

 

Beacuse in real life, heavy manifest trains are routed via the 3rd Track (Harriman Cut) #cmiiw. The 2 main track usually minimally occupied by the heavy slow train and leave it empty to give a clear run for hotshot intermodal train. The Harriman Cut bypasses both the 1.5% grade and the Sherman Summit. Harriman Cut provide shallower grade of about 0.8% but it take longer to bound to the west. The 2 main track merges with the Harriman Cut at the Dale Jnct.

I hope someday DTG reconsider to finish the 3rd track to add variation to the gameplay.

 

No, because drivers know better than to crest a summit at line speed.
You should be doing between 20-30 on the downgrade, no more. These trains are BIG and HEAVY.

--------------------------
However, you should be getting better brake performance than that. Either (1) you didn't actually have DPU working, and your rear engines weren't contributing, or (b) you had unwisely used the train brake already, too often, and were low on air.

 

70 psi is too early. You only got up to 27 because you were dragging a bunch of braked cars at the back.

80 at minimum. 76 in a pinch, but not when you will be heading down soon (as in, departing Hermosa eastbound), or if you're anticipating a hard climb (like in the snow)

 

Be interested to know if you make it in the snow, my example above , I was fully released at rear too.

 

Odd, I had no trouble with that one, with the train brake just above initial (I think 9 or 10 pounds), and dynamics in the middle range.

 

It could just be the performance affecting the calculations then.
Anyhow with Run 8 V.3 installed, looking forward to seeing how the revised physics in that compare. That is, once I relearn all the odd key commands and figure out the train descriptions to make the new “Otto” work correctly.

 

Here is helpful page that allows you to do some calculations without going very deep into Newtonian physics:

https://www.republiclocomotive.com/locomotive-power-calculations.html

key here is the factor of adhesion and wether DTG has programmed it correctly into its Simugraph: dry rail, wet rail, snow rail, sand.

3 EMD SD70ACe are below the required minimum HP for this 11000 tons train when the grade, curvature and weather are adverse

 

This would explain why in the snow I believe it's a service that cannot be completed.

 

Well, regarding today's update, there are some good and some bad news. Seeing 13 points for Sherman Hill in the patch notes made me quite excited, and there are some good changes, but also some bad.

For starters, they changed the grass that was causing all the performance issues. Good new is, the performance issues are now gone! I could enjoy the route on the same level of performance as all other routes, without having to dial down the foilage settings. I would dare to say the performance is not even better on ultra foilage than it previously was on medium foilage.
The bad news is, well, the grass looks like this now...


Close up the wheat asset they changed looks good, but it very quicky changes LOD and turns into this overly white... spike? It looks very out of place, it's way too bright. And it's this endless wave/circle of this white matter following your train, as close up the wheat looks fine, then it turns into this bright stuff, then obviously it disappears as you move away from it. I think it would look okay if it was actually colored like the close-up rendition of the wheat, but with the LOD being completely different color and this bright, it looks horrible. How did anyone from the team took a look at this and said this is fine, let's release it?

A very good change is that they finally changed the bridge ballast textures to match the track ballast, they're the same color now.


Another good change is that these powerlines near the quarry no longer float. Very happy to see that.


And I like the sign on the summit, very glad to finally see it!


As for the rest of the patch notes, they don't seem to be that noticeable, but glad to see them anyway.
One thing that bothers me is that they touched up some level crossings, according to the patch notes, yet the crossing as Hermosa has not been changed so it still looks like this.


And regarding the foilage changes, to me it looks like at some places there is less foilage now. Like this random patch of emptiness here. I don't remember this being the case previously on the route. Looks very ugly.


Then there is this short section which is suddenly full of green grass on the dry dirt, ballast and tracks. What happened here? This definitely shouldn't be here.


There there are many issues still unresovled, like the eye adaptation making everything too bright in the cab of the SD70, or the in-cab signalling still being broken, or the bridge at Laramie not casting shadows. But I suppose it's a start, nice to see such a long list of patch notes, but Sherman Hill still needs some work, especially the foilage. The performance changes are good, but visually it's a mess. I really hope it gets sorted and they are not done with it.

 

That grass looks abysmal. Months to go through QA and that’s what they let through. Jesus Mary and baby Joseph get that QA lead role filled

 

That grass looks awful. It's a similar problem to LGV, sad to see it happening again on a newer route

 

This is nothing more than another example of trying to align gen 8 to newer tech rather than focus on more scalability for pcs. Now I get to enjoy something visually worse for a full price that got reduced right down a week few weeks later. If I had a kettle of urine it’d be well and truly boiling now. If spirit of steam is a cluster of ducks I need to dig out my wheel and start vr racing again

 

Can you post a screenshot that shows the headlights and ditch lights? They should be the same color now.

 

Well they are visible on one of my screenshots above. I don't remember how they looked like before the update, but they look the same color now, I suppose?

 

I'm glad to hear performance is worked out, but my god those grass issues completely kill the look of the route. It's a shame since I honestly thought the route got the look of Sherman Hill right for the most part originally. But now I have to say the bloody TS version looks better, at least the grass isn't snow white from five meters and beyond in that version. You know I actually gave some thought to picking this up this sale with it being half off, and Squrriel's video on it making me interested in it again, but that definitely ain't happening now.

 

Yeah, I totally understand. The performance improvements and the new Sherman Hill sign (and other small improvements like the bridge ballast) are awesome and made me want to do a few runs on the route, but with the grass looking like this, I don't really feel like driving anymore on the route.

Hopefully it can be fixed just by changing the brightness/color on the LOD, but I do wonder, how could they even release it like this? They even made a full video of this and put it behind Matt on the anniversary stream. Did noone stop and think "guys... this looks bad"?
Anyway I hope for a fix. If the route stays like this, then that will quickly be the end of doing runs on Sherman Hill.

 

The ditch lights were white before.

 

Yea the grass is bad, step backward to TS classic 10 years ago bad. Up close it looks better, although lots of disconnected bits that are meant for the shader pass and blending of all the assets. Almost feels like a LOD issue tbh, which somebody pointed out in another thread iirc, seems to be another issue DTG is struggling with
I'd like to say I can't believe this was signed off on, but at this point I know better

 

I noticed something similar when playing Cane Creek recently. Down near Moab, suddenly some of the grass begins to look like this:



What the heck is this??


I don't think this was here when I played it months ago. The grass does look better close up but it still glows. There is some weird LOD stuff happening here. I'm wondering if it's a mod or a .ini modification that is affecting this? Perhaps someone on console or with a vanilla configuration could shed some light.

Cheers

 

I don't own Cane Creek so I don't know but...looks like the alpha channel isn't properly resolving on that particular grass texture. Could be wrong LOD or even I wonder if a core setting was changed for the Sherman Hill grass that broke that too as it seems too coincidental?

 

That grass type i have too on cane creek since i played the route. Not sure its coming from the enhancement pack or if this is original.
Looks like a 2d texture and if you go close, it changes.

Well the hs curve is skyhooks chance to get it right now.

 

I have tried playing CCB removing all the mods and enhancement packs and still the grass looks neon green. Seems like a fundamental issue here, not related to any mods or enhancements.

 

If we have a community mole within DTGs ranks who agrees the grass looks horrendous, please go into the asset library and delete that file. I’d rather a 2d green square thsn something that looks like pampas grass drawn in paint

 

That was very frustrating to see the new grass on Sherman Hill. It just looks unpleasant. That’s not how grass looks. It’s just a blob of polygons or whatever.

I hope someone at DTG realizes that this is very bad grass. It’s Sherman Hill. The entire route’s scenery is grass. Please don’t mess up yet another American route. I liked the normal grass.

 

Oh man, really? They broke Cane Creek's grass too? Man...

 

I should have been more specific. Those screenshots were taken about a week before the Sherman update. The effect just looks similar.

Cheers

 

Oh. Weird. I just got Cane Creek not so long ago, like two weeks ago, and when I did a few runs it looked okay to me.

But I will do another run today or tomorrow and check it out.

 

The grass on sherman hill looked great, it was one of the few routes that didn't make me wish for improvements visually. What they did now put it from the top of the best looking routes in my opinion somewhere far lower.

 

Devs -“Yes, yes we’ve fixed the grass for gen 8, no one else will notice a difference “

Qa sign off - “release the code….”




Preserved crew “ More work for us to fix”

 

It is the exact same on console



Not only it looks terrible, it also follows you, literally appears in front of you, so it really catches your eye.

Hopefully it will be reverted back or removed althogheter. Not sure wether if it was intentional or a mistake.

I believe you master race guys should be able to fix this by increasing the LOD distance in the .ini file.

 

Weeks of QA and all we got was this lousy sign...