Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by arapajoe3, Oct 13, 2020.
I think in time DTG will regret withholding the editor from its customers.
Any company is out for money. SimRail too.
You also seem to forget that there's plenty of features added over the past few years in TSW. Realistic throttle, headsway, adhesion, PIS, more complex timetabling, journey mode, substitution, loading/unloading of cargo, scenario editor, livery editor, and I'm probably forgetting a few more. Just because DTG isn't developing the features you would like to see (I don't know, multiplayer comes to mind, people either love it hate it), doesn't mean that they aren't developing any new features at all.
And sure, Bus Simulator 18 might be getting a few updates, but what about Bus Simulator 16? Is that still getting updates? Because I'm pretty happy DTG doesn't make a new game every few years. (Yes I know there's TSW2020, but I'm convinced that wasn't part of the business plan, especially since it took them considerable amount of time to bring over perserved collection and are still working on fixing bugs).
Now, we yet have to see what SimRail will bring us. Screenshots look nice, and they've announced a few features that could be interesting (although personally I couldn't care less about multiplayer). Lets wait for release to find out if they can live up to the expectations some of us may have. At this point, TSW does seem to be the most popular train simulator game available on the market, even with it's flaws and DTGs far from perfect reputation. (Although I have to add that DTG does seem to improve on the communcation and bugfixing parts, albeit slowly).
I don't think there's a lot can be done on that score.
Personally, the biggest mistake may have been using unreal engine at all. It may have been the easier/simpler option than doing something with the TS engine at the time, but in the long term it's going to be more of the "FIFA model" of a "new" game looking very similar to it's predecessor every couple of years.
Multiplayer is one of the most requested features. It brings the opportunity for role playing, virtual companies etc.. Sure we can't have an editor, then it needs some other huge feature to make it worth it. Apart from graphics, it has less playability then TS1. People would play all the time, and play a lot more. ETS, Multiplayer is huge. Flight Simulators, Multiplayer is a requirement. Even Lotus Simulator knew its a needed feature. Clearly, SimRail knows its a requested feature. Even simple things in timetable mode would make it miles more immersive if there was randomness, even a train running a max of 10 mins late... Would make it so much more interesting. DTG are setting themselves up for a failure, may be SimRail, maybe not but a train sim will eventually come with an editor and multiplayer and crush TSW.
If more 3rd parties start coming on board TSW2 the lack of a full editor will become less of an issue. A proper scenario editor/planer is what will make the biggest difference though.
Simrail looks interesting, but the screenshots don't look that much better than a really good TS route. Until the game is out we wont know, but I'm looking forward to trying it out.
Only because the company behind SimRail may not be the best at graphics, Unity is capable of graphics just as good as UE4, and third parties would take advantage of that.
Simrail has some key features that frankly TSW really needs imo.
there use of a decent weather system and weather based on current weather data ect is a nice addition.
and a sky that does not look like utter garbage, the current weather , sky and overall environment feel of TSW is not even to par with TS, and frankly im sick of the constant oh if we do X we cant do Y , these are foundation items they effect the immersion of the sim massively.
That said Simrail is unproven and is not from a publisher i have any trust in so wait and see the hope would be it lights a fire on DTG to get some basics sorted out once and for all and there is room for more than one rail sim that is for sure.
I find it rather fascinating that people will take advertising of a future product as proof how that product will be better than an existing product where people are complaining the existing product company over-hyped and over promised from the beginning.
Personally, I hope Simrail will live up to the expectations so those that pegged their hopes will not be disappointed, but I will reserve judgement until an actual product has been delivered. Just recalling how several that stated DeRail Valley would be the death knell of TSW since it had the “most requested” feature of VR.
It will be interesting to see what controller support will be available for use in SimRail
Perfect. Drops mic.....
SimRail might have some new cool features. Some stuff we still don't have in TSW. But I'm not switching over anytime soon. Too much money and much time already sunk into TSW. Only thing I can think of that would make me even remotely consider a switch over, or get it too, would be if they had lots more content. I mean loads of routes, longer, and all the rolling stock I miss from OGTS...and that, that is not going to happen anytime soon, or ever. Also, we are getting more and more things in TSW as well. It just takes time. They don't have the resources, economic and otherwise, as bigger game/sim developers do. Train games always has been, are, and always will be a niche game. Our wish list what we want to see implemented, though, is probably as big, or even bigger, than that of the communities of the big AAA games. If DTG had their resources, I'm sure we would have seen a route a week coming out, or at least a few a month. Not sure I would be able to make my wifey let me afford that too. Best of luck to them, though.
Someone mentioned "weather based on current weather data". This must be one of the most completely useless features ever suggested, and would be a total waste of both time and money to try and implement into the game. If I'm driving through "insert any obscure village/town/location here" and I look up and out the loco window. The two wee fluffy clouds up there (Sure, I'd like them to look good, and maybe be dynamically created too), but whether or not these two wee fluffy clouds exist at the exact same time over "insert same obscure village/town/location as previously" in the real world...I really, sincerely, and truly could not care less about. Fully dynamically wether would be awesome though. Just not created based on real life data.
Multiplayer, the biggest joke of them all, unless DTG comes up with some new clever and elaborate ways of setting it up. As I see it, and as it stands now, the only way to do it would be with password locked lobbies for 2/5/10 people, I don't know exactly how many and what roles to have. Since train operations are of a somewhat delicate nature, thanks to the very strict safety systems in place and the horrendous consequences if said systems are not strictly followed to the letter. If any type of open lobbies, or if completely open worlds are used, trust me when I say that you will all have the very dubious pleasure of, probably sooner than later, have a run in with one of the "xxxUberMegaSlayerzOfDoomPuzzeyPounderYoloSwag420xxx" crowd (and they are plentiful, and they are everywhere) come barreling down the track with nothing else in mind than how to how best ruin everyone's day in the worst possible way they can think of. It never, ever, fails. They are in every open world game ever created. Maybe more so in some than others, but they are there, always, lurking, waiting for the right moment to strike when you least expect it, i.e. when you are having the most fun.
"Most requested feature" does not, of itself, mean a large demand - more a reflection of the 'squeaky wheel' effect. Multiplayer, whilst available in most Flight simulators, is not a feature most used by the vast majority of users. Other than a few virtual airline enthusiasts, its main use is in Air Traffic Control and that application relies on a base of dedicated volunteers using a simulated networked ATC software package. The analogy of that in TSW would be the Despatcher and I am not convinced there would be the density of users on any given rail route to support volunteer despatchers (not to mention the lack of software for that function).
I have no numbers. I wonder if the others do have any facts and statistics to back up their claims. I know multiplayer is a much requested feature by some people, but this might as well be a vocal minority. I've also head plenty of people that they have no interest in multiplayer whatsoever.
And yes, you could compare how popular multiplayer is in other games. And while I'm aware that there's a very active community in multiplayer communities for games like ETS2, I think (but have no data) that the overwhelming majority of people are playing (and enjoying) this game in singleplayer mode.
Simrail will end TSW, fan boys. Simrail focus on the real simulation feel, the lightning , all buttons are functional, real live weather, lots of features that a train sim really needs instead of LiVeRy DeSiGnEr... DTG doesn't know how to manage TSW and they prioraties are based on money and make routes and trains with reused aspects all over the place and charge a lot for their products... SimRail learned what TSW did wrong in this 5 YEARS. SimRail will focus on simulation which is the major thing on a train simulator
Remember 2/3 who uses is Tsw is console user. They cannot use Sim rail
Nice discussion ...then someone comes in with “TSW Fanboys”. - another for the ignore list.
Quite right, LeadCatcher - everyone knows it should be "fanbois"
Also "Simrail focus on the real simulation feel, the lightning , all buttons are functional, real live weather".
The first 2 of those are things that TSW2 tries to focus on, even if it might not always hit the mark (and we don't know how close Simrail will manage yet). All the buttons tend to be functional within TSW2, although it would be nice if GSM etc. were modelled. (Actually, I'm not that bothered about GSM. When AP model that kind of thing, its nice as a one off but more of a pain on a regular basis. Would be nice if the unit lit up though). I agree about live weather.
And helderbrincolas, talking about fanboys, it does sometimes look a little bit like you only created an account here so that you could bash TSW2 and promote another simulator.
You said very well "Tsw is trying", so by my counts TSW is trying that from almost 5 years...
Nope, I said that TSW2 tries to focus on real simulation feel and lighting. It has an aim of doing that. It is something that it aspires to. Simrail may similarly try and do that, we haven't seen how successful it will be yet.
So what, the major thing is how is the game,
No it hasn't, the ilumination in TSW sucks , sky and clouds looks terrible and it looks like a wallpaper. The addiction of LiVeRy DeSiGnEr is really a focus on the simulation. TSW 2 focus on making content and from that content money, with bugs and reused aspects. Visually Simrail allready has a better ilumnation, sky and clouds and it's still in WIP. Go have a look on their website and social media and see for your self. And the addctions like MP, dispatcher mode and you can build your own routes( i think) those are aspects that a Train sim needs. Simrail will learn and has learned what DTG has done wrong in 5 YEARS
I'd say it will be very good since SimKol makes pro level train sims for the industry.
As long as the devs aren't pressured to meet release deadlines than I can see it being pretty good as well, I just can't shake my concern that they'll rush it out before it's ready though.
But we don't know yet if they will actually deliver all of that, so claiming SimRail will "end TSW" is a bit premature when we've only seen some screenshots. I hope they do deliver, but DTG also said there will be an editor and multiplayer all look how that went.
And lighting is definitely not amazing. The screenshots kinda look like they have a filter applied and feel a bit hazy.
But DTG is DTG. If you guys believed in MP and editor for TSW that's your problem, DTG promises and says lots of things that they can't deliver.
My, anyone would think that lives actually depend on these things!
Easy there folks, no need to turn this thread into an argument. SimRail looks pretty promising and the dev team have the kind of experience that could deliver something solid. Let's keep that as the focal point of the thread. If someone disagrees with your take on the situation, let them, it's not like you'll change their mind.
Just because a studio develops professional simulators doesn't automatically mean they can bang out a great commercial entertainment product that anyone can pick up.
There seems to be this premise in the simulation community that the software that's used for training real world drivers is pretty much the most faithful recreation you're going to get, providing many hours of fun.
Unfortunately that's not always the case. Remember, first and foremost, these sort of simulators are for training purposes, not entertainment purposes. More often than not, this means that they lack in a lot of areas, such as graphics and dynamic gameplay, which is not at all essential when it comes to training.
Making professional simulators and making commercial-simulators are two different things as they focus on certain key areas and have different target demographics.
Now I don't see any reason to doubt the capabilites of SimKol, but I don't see much reason to have such high expectations either, especially when SimRail is still heavily in development and we barely have much tangential information other than some promises and a few screenshots.
Even with what we have so far there really isn't anything that catches my eyes at least. I'm often thinking "would there be any reasons to switch to SimRail from TSW, when there's quite a lot being offered here already?"
I certainly do hope that this might increase the competition and encourage more innovation, but to say that this will kill off TSW or TS Classic? No, I heavily doubt it. Honestly the two might co-exist happily, if SimRail does become successful. But of course, it's much too early to tell.
Have you actually downloaded the unreal engine? Take a look and delve, it may fry your brain? There's a huge learning curve and it is very complicated, so I think that they have taken the proper decision not to release it to newbs who may wreak havoc with TSW proper, just my penny's worth of observation. Maybe if they can make it more user friendly somehow then we might get one at some point? I've been using TS's scenario editor for donkey's years now and there are still aspects of that editor I know nuffink about (think brain and bamboozled)!
In my case maybe you are right, but i am sure you underestimate the programming skill of lot's of DTG customers out there, you only have to look at the wonderful routes and add ons from 3rd party and individual contributions for TS2021.
There are a lot of talented people in our hobby, they need to be encouraged.
Don't disagree with you Michael, however, that still doesn't take away the complexity of the editor for the likes of I would hazard a guess the majority of users, and without a doubt, the editor in TS classic is a doddle in comparison to UE.
Unreal engine looks a lot scarier then it actually is. From an art perspective, its a dream.
That is fine if you have an aptitude for such things, but I'm guessing most users won't? (no offence)
It all comes back to the same reason most people don't enjoy working with the TS1 editor, few people in the community have the mindset to just sit down and build. A full editor would never be for most, but it's not a reason to withhold it from the few who will sit down and do what they want, just like in TS1.
At least they are letting some third parties have a go.
Rivet was a given, considering their heritage, and both Skyhook and Maik/TSG have previously worked on TSW. They haven't let any *new* third parties have a go.
Or perhaps other third parties aren't interested in developing for TSW? Who knows.
Although RSSLO did hint that they wanted to develop for TSW, but something with DTG holding them back perhaps.
Those are some of the truest words spoken in this thread, IMO.
I think it would be a bit naive for anyone to suppose that TSW will be killed off by something more of a "purer" sim (that hasn't even been released yet to several thousand people potentially exposing its flaws). TSW's user base might be more casual and less knowledgeable of railway operations than ZUSI 3 users (for example), but there are certainly more of them.
I don't think it has to be a case of one versus the other. There are niches within niches, after all.
TSW has the largest audience of all these 'simulators' because it is the most game-like. The entry threshold is the lowest for a potential novice fan. Besides, it looks the best. This is important if you want to sell a lot
I play ZUSI, TS, TSW, Run8 (random order...) - completely dissimilar products. I will leave judgment for myself at this point
PS About Simrail 2021. I am not very optimistic (maybe because I am from Poland ) but I keep my fingers crossed and I hope to be pleasantly surprised. This publisher has quite a controversial portfolio in my opinion. We will see.
Really? This is news to me. What TSW content has Skyhook developed?
They've done some Asset Modeling for TSW, based on their Portfolio page: https://www.skyhookgames.com/portfolio
Wow! I had no idea they did the modelling for the Class 66 or 43. Thank you for sharing.
IHH Iron Horse House game
I liked those videos especially the second one where you could hear the wind and see the trees move around in the wind. This is looking impressive so far.
Which game is that?
Looks like a different game to me. "Trackside". According to the links provided it really looks like it has nothing to do with SimRail. Not sure why it's posted here.
Is that so?
the 50 guys who think they know how to use it or the 10 guys who really know how to use it?
Personally, I have traveled quite a bit on TS and I am very happy with TSW2 as it is, without an editor.
Because if there was a DTG editor wouldn't bother to fix a minimum of its bugs.
It's great that there is no route editor.
It looks like Trackside is a game where you don't drive the trains but do the other jobs like signalman and trackside worker. No sign of it anywhere other than this youtube channel though...
I think it’s from IHH, I don’t know anything else about it though.
Separate names with a comma.