Skyhook's Db Br 187 Confirmed For Ska

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by mclitke, Feb 23, 2021.

  1. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    On today's roadmap stream Adam told us that he had information from Skyhook regarding the "home route" for the 187.
    Apparently it was planned/switched to Schnellfahrstrecke Köln - Aachen and not Rhein-Ruhr Osten.

    What are your thoughts? Personally, while I find RRO always pleasantly to drive, I believe a loco such as the 187 will be more interesting to drive on the longer route that is Köln - Aachen. Fingers crossed, we might even get some access to more freight yards along the line, but let's not hope for too much already.
     
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  2. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    I would prefer it to sub onto other routes like the MSB 185.2 and the RSN 185.2 But I highly doubt that because of DTG not adding layers due to performance.
     
  3. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    I would not be too sure about that, this might rather check their substitution system instead of a new layer. You know, as in you can get the 155, 182 or 185 on ai freight services and I coudl very well see the 187 switch in for these as well.
     
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  4. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Wherever it ends up I hope we get to use it as a freight loco and not just an A to B loco (yes yes I know that’s what freight is), I want to have access to freight yards and feel like there is purpose to freight runs, it’s annoying how only the US freighters seem to get that kind of gameplay, EU freight in TSW feels too bland.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
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  5. JBViper

    JBViper Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you.
    Entire areas are built but not usable, it's very frustrating. I'm not even talking about the Koln depot area with the two revolving bridges.
     
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  6. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes, I love SKA for freights, depending on the weight of the train you set the PZB mode, then set AFB to either 100 or 120 and wait for 1h

    Love listening to some podcasts while watching some nice scenery and trains go past me.

    Jokes apart, in my opinion RRO is a much better route for freight trains. I actually think it is very under utilised, with a huge intermodal siding completely unused except for some trains stopping there...

    Hopefully at least the G6 will remain for RRO, or Skyhooks manages to do something more than A to B runs like the current timetable mode.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
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  7. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    I guess, if one wants to have freight action on yards in germany, you would need Locos like the G6 or the 363 or the 204. Locos like the 187 or the 185 just put up the wagons and drive them from a to b, that is what often happens.
     
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  8. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Well, I suppose everyone has his own definition of "interesting." Going in a straight line for an hour isn't mine.

    There is a basic problem with releases based around HSTs, ever since Great Western: those flat, ruler-straight routes are inherently uninteresting, except for the purpose of hauling ass in an airliner-on-rails.

    Thank God for Clinchfield and Arosa!

    PS: Don't we have enough damn TRAXX already?
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
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  9. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    I don't know, how many do we have? You seem to be on a personal quest to throw that one in wherever possible, regardless of whether the loco in question actually is a traxx...
     
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  10. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    My hope is that the Br 187 will use a lot of the yards and sidings on SKA in service mode. If it just comes with the same A to B services which layers add as of the time of writing, then I probably would have liked having it come for a different route. After all, this
    is my point of view as well. At least until we can finally use the Br 155 on SKA. Matt said he‘d enable the Br 155 and 182 to be used but there has been no update on that front.
     
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  11. TS_trainspotter

    TS_trainspotter Active Member

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    You're absolutely right! But, on the other hand... this loco has a different look, different driving style (dynamic brake on the same handle as throttle), and will bring some variety in goods trains :)
     
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  12. grob-e

    grob-e Well-Known Member

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    It won't be that many, only the TRAXX 3 for passengers (147) is missing. And a TRAXX 4 haven't been announced yet, so it will probably take years before we'll get another new TRAXX-loco in TSW.
     
  13. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    I think this is a good way to look at this. Of course best possible outcome would be if this loco unlocks some more sidings to start off, end or - and that would be really awesome- drop off some wagons along the way like in RSN or PC. The more interactive freight runs get, the better.

    Now somehow I do have a feeling though that maybe this loco will just substitute in for other freight locos. But let's wait for more information first.

    The reason for me liking this train on SKA more than RRO is, that SKA has good potential for interesting scenarios, which we don't have freight scenarios there at all. Plus freight runs on RRO feel very short, I'd much rather have the Loco native to SKA with engaging scenarios and hopefully something new for the route, and have the 187 layered/substituted on other routes.
     
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  14. Higgybaby90

    Higgybaby90 Active Member

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    The good thing about the BR 187 on SKA is, it means it has to come with some freight cars to be playable (since not everybody owns MSB/RRO to get the layers). So maybe we can hope for a new set of freight cars with it. And since the most green run gaps are already filled with layer freight trains, maybe we get more interesting services like getting passed by the ICE on a siding or so (SKA offers a lot passing sidings all unused by now). But it all depends on how willing and talented the service mode creator is. Otherwise we get A-B runs.
     
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  15. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    The only thing that looks remotely like a siding is Düren on SKA, where there are some static trains right now.

    I don't see how that would work on SKA. The only reason for the change is probabily to make sure everyone who owns TSW can buy the 187, sacrificing a lot of potential use, in my opinion.

    I hope I'm wrong, I was looking forward for the 187...
     
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  16. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Since you asked, we have the 146.2, 185.2 (both Railion and DB versions) and the 185.5 in MRCE livery. To that add the painfully similar 182, in red and (soon) black versions. These are the only German mainline locomotives (as opposed to EMUs) which actually have their own scheduled services, barring the 143 on RSN only.

    It's like the endlessly reskinned GP38-2......

    You want to call it my personal peeve, fair enough. I would like some more variety in German traction, not endless tweaks on the same basic soulless robo-train.
     
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  17. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    So basically we have 2, I feel a third and actual new one sure does make a difference. Counting the Taurus does not make sense just because it looks similar, which it only does because it is red.

    You can't tell me that it is as hard to differentiate a 182 from a 146 visually as it is to differentiate between the dash 8 and the ac4400. Like at least these two DB trains look completely different.

    And the 187 even though it is from the traxx family still does not only look distinctively different, but functions differently as well, so I really can't understand why one would get mad and exaggerate as much? To each their own, I just don't understand why you feel the need to downplay something that people are excited for like that, only because it is a machine that does not litter the world with diesel fumes.

    There is another yard at Stolberg, Rothe Erde and beyond Aachen HBF or am I messing these up?
     
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  18. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    Uh interesting point, I did not think about that at all. On RRO there were container wagons native to the route, so they will have to include some wagons in this pack.
     
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  19. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but they they are not as big as the ones in RRO and RSN, All the freights in game currently are just portal to portal on SKA.

    But I will hold jugdment until we got more news otherwise there is the risk of me getting everything wrong. I still think that RRO would be the better option, but hopefully they can come up with something interesting on SKA as well.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2021
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  20. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    1. All TSW2 owners are also SKA owners = there is no need to buy a home route for this locomotive.
    2. Hope it will be a substitute on other German routes.
    3. New wagons. Necessarily.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
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  21. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    to be fair though, I feel like alot of the yards in TSW are not playable, even the large ones. For RSN, you usually end / start on the same couple of tracks at Hagen every time...
    But what you say regarding getting everything wrong applies to me as well, I might get overconfident here with what might end up being added, so I will tone that down since I myself preach to lower expectancies all the time.
     
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  22. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, solicitr, I have to agree with mclitke on this. I absolutely agree that something other than yet another TRAXX would be nice, but if you exclude Siemens' Br 182 as being too similar to a Bombardier TRAXX, we would not get any German electric loco built past the 1980s really. Anything built post the Br 120 (including) would probably be too similar if we apply that definition.

    I am curious though - What would you (solicitr) think of a Vectron? I'm not being sarcastic and/or trying to offend you but seeing how the Vectron is taking the real rails by storm, I think it would be a nice future DLC to break the constant cycle of reused TRAXXs.
     
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  23. grob-e

    grob-e Well-Known Member

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    Just to make sure all are thinking about the same locos...

    BR 182:
    [​IMG]

    BR 187

    [​IMG]

    BR 185

    [​IMG]

    Apart from having 2 cabs, an engineroom between, 8 wheels and some pantographs on the roof, they are clearly visible different.
     
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  24. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the pictures and yes, that was my point entirely. Apart from the 182 being from a different manufacturer, they all look and work differently enough to warrant them having their own model in the game imo.
    That being said, of course I am absolutely interested in some older main line locos, like the Ludmilla which is in production and am still disappointed that no 218 was made for Hamburg - Lübeck. And the 155 is still one of my favorite locos to drive with.
     
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  25. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Mechanically they are all very, very similar (allowing for the generational thyristor changeover, and different gearing and drivetrains for passenger/freight versions). The 182 looks just like the 185 with rounded corners. The 187 looks just like the 185 with corrugated sides.
    __________________________

    Vectron: a nice change of pace. A new look, a new engineering approach. And usable just about everywhere-- including a potential future Amtrak route.
     
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  26. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Same with US modern powers. We must learn to love nuances :)
    I just can't wait!
     
  27. grob-e

    grob-e Well-Known Member

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    If you take that term of similarity, you won´t be able to make any locos in the world...

    Britain:
    [​IMG]

    China

    [​IMG]

    France

    [​IMG]

    so forth and so on...
     
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  28. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    Yep seems quite narrow minded. By that definition even all the british EMU and BR diesel locos look the same. Just have a gander at the rolling stock for the newly announced scottish route, half of them have the door gangway on the nose and the other half are just rounded front trains. 1938 tube stock, class 483 and mark 2 stock? Same.
    Class 166 and 465? Same, one just has diesel.
    Anything from electrostar - don't we have enough bombardier already?
    Class 37, 40, 45 same.
    Class 31, 33, 47, 52? Well some more curvy than others, but basically the same.
    Amercian freight trains? Same, though some have a wide cab. And don't we have enough GE and EMD already?
    M3 and M7 look the same as well, M3 is a bit more rounded though. And since the DB br 182 is basically a traxx train according to solicitr, I guess we can just say that both M3 and M7 are made by bombardier as well, of which, we surely have enough already, right?

    Guess this will be the last time I will engage in such conversation as it seems way to far fetched to further the argument that trains that are made by different companies and absolutely look different even at first glance are practically the same machine.
     
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  29. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The M3 and M7 aren't even close to similar looks. The M7 and M7A are trains that look pratically the same
     
  30. seblay1608

    seblay1608 Well-Known Member

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    In reality, there are just a few trains with the BR 218, every else train has a BR 112.1 instead. Since a few months, there is also the BR 146.3. A BR 112.1 is for this route (if it is after 2007) more important than a BR 218 for the timetable.
     
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  31. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the elaboration. I guess is was about time for DB to introduce some newer/electric locos to that route. From simple Google searches I came to understand that the 218 is somewhat of a signature loco to that route, unfortunate that it seems to have mostly seen it's days there.
    Well TSG already said they wanted to bring a 218 later, so all I need is patience I guess.
     
  32. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    But - to be a bit off topic - TSG confirmed more or less to do the 218 after the ongoing projects are finished.
     
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  33. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    ... which is a very nice thing to do and will guarantee them my purchase :)
     
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  34. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    A Big Boy and a Challenger are also mechanically pretty much the same, and they also look very similar. You could say the same about types like the LMS Black 5/BR Standard 5MT, or Thompson A1/A2. However it would be pretty ridiculous to say that it would be only worth doing just a Big Boy or a just a A1.
     
  35. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I don't want to play the devil's advocate, but I can kind of see the complaints about similarity, although, this is just standardisation and adopting the best design from the locomotive builders around the world.

    There is a variety of electric locomotives which work in different ways and are different to drive. For example the old rheostatic DC locos are almost completely different from a modern all electronic AC loco.

    There is a considerable difference between the 143/155 and the 185/146 for example, but the 182, 185 and 146 are very similar. I like all of them since I can appreciate the little differences between each of them, but I can see why people claim they are very similar.

    I still like (almost) all modern locomotives, as well as the older ones, so the more the merrier, but I don't think we should just ignore that people expect more substantial differences in locomotives.

    That's also why I think setting the routes just some years ago (2010s) offers the best possibilities, as some of the older locos were in the process of getting scrapped (but were still running, unlike today). That's also why I think Rivet made the right call in dropping the Allegra for the 4/4 II

    Routes based in 2021 Europe will most likely feature EMUs not too different from the 425/422 and probabily an Eurosprinter/Traxx/Vectron/etc...
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
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  36. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I do agree with all of your points. Going back to my example of Br 182 vs TRAXX, there are distinct differences, but if we break it down to the elements we actually interact with in the sim, I‘ll admit they‘re quite similar.

    That is the problem (for us in the sim) of standardization. Most modern locos in a single market are very similar. This is not exclusive to German electrics either.

    There needs to be a balance between completely different locos and differently nuanced locos. I can‘t say how to reach that balance though. That‘s up to DTG and maybe partly the suggestions forum.
     
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  37. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    On the other hand, this is or was a rare opportunity to introduce a V 160 on a modern route. You can find 112s anywhere.
     
  38. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Depends on the context. If DTG, having done a Big Boy (as if), then added a Challenger but provided no other steam engines except big simple-articulated West Coast freight engines, no Hudsons, Pacifics, Northerns, Moguls, Mallets or anything else except for the Big Boy/Challenger/Yellowstone template, then we would have a lack of variety similar to what we have with German traction.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
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  39. RobSkip

    RobSkip Well-Known Member

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    Vectron vs ES64U is about as different as TRAXX 2 vs TRAXX 3 really.
     
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  40. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    Couldn’t they just as easily throw the container wagons in this pack as well, even though they came with RRO? Although I would definitely rather see some new wagons.
     
  41. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    I thought about that too. I don't know if DTG would do that, considering that they made those wagons and skyhook making the Loco.
     
  42. Richard CZE

    Richard CZE Well-Known Member

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    It would be interesting if this locomotive has the function "Last mile". Then it could run on all non-electrified sidings on all German lines. I found this short video.

     
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  43. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I assume we'll be getting a DB Br 187. Looking at online databanks, it doesn't seem like DB ordered any with Last-Mile functionality. Do you have any sources that indicate DB did get some after all?
     
  44. Richard CZE

    Richard CZE Well-Known Member

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    I do not have this information. I studied this locomotive directly. If this feature is not available, he suggested it after the DLC was released.
     
  45. robinnieuwenhuis1

    robinnieuwenhuis1 Member

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    Maybe now its time for another Eurosprinter, like the BR189 :P
     
  46. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Clipped from the "Db Br 187 First Screens" announcement: "With numerous types of wagons for you to move and appropriate mixed freight services for you to enjoy, it will be your job to navigate the busy yards that are dotted along the line, and stick to the timetable once you’ve entered the mainline. Stay on time and ensure you aren’t holding up any of the high-speed passenger services that share the line." Granted, this doesn't promise any shunting activities, but staying out of the way of passenger runs strikes me as better than the more usual mode of having nearly all AI coming toward me rather than making me move over as they approach from behind. It isn't possible to guess whether "numerous types of wagons" implies anything actually new, of course, but I'll remain optimistic until proven otherwise.
     
  47. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Current SKA freight is already like that if you stick to a realistic max speed, with 2 or 3 trains queuing up behind you. I don't understand how that could be appealing, the train's max speed is still the same, no matter how much you want to get out of the way. It was kind of cool with the 363 runs on RSN, but I can't see it working as well with a 120 km/h capable, high performance long distance locomotive, and is probably just some marketing to build excitement out of normal freight operations (which are extremely boring on SKA).

    Hopefully the yards actually mean some shunting, it doesn't have to be 363 level of shunting but even an equivalent of those services with a bit of shunting in the middle on RSN should be enough to make me not sad.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2021
  48. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    But the announced layers do sound appealing.
     
  49. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I already have freight on SKA, and it is the least appealing set of services I have on TSW currently. The line speed never dips below 100km/h which means you can completely forget about speed limits exists, and you have to mind one single 110 km/h restriction if you run with a max speed of 120. You also are the slowest train there, so no chance of catching up to any service in front and thus getting adverse signal aspects on such a linear route.

    The ups and downs could bring a little bit of action, but you only need to stay 5 km/h below line speed and give a touch of electric brakes, not exactly exciting, considering you have almost a full hour of just watching AFB holding speed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2021
  50. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    FD1003 i am talking about the layers on other routes.
     

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