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So Many Questions, Why No Readily Available Answers?

Discussion in 'PlayStation Discussion' started by Samo1, Aug 22, 2020.

  1. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    I’m going through here and many forums with “paying customers” asking so many basic questions because where is a PROPER manual? a quick start up guide to get trains moving does not qualify as a manual, again this is filed under not going the extra mile to give players all the answers they need without spending time trying to research answers, can we have a proper manual please?
     
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  2. simongilford

    simongilford Well-Known Member

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    Remember the days when games used to come with proper manuals? I just picked this off my shelf to remind myself what a manual is:

    20200822_190417.jpg
     
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  3. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, 99% of us are not train drivers, looking for information to put lights on for example is plain and simply wrong, we need the information to get the most from the product we bought without needing to research every five minutes
     
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  4. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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    i got to agree with you as much as i hate to say it to me its pathetic i was expecting like what we usually get with the manuals as i wanted to read out how to use LZB and the manual doesn't even cross PZB it's just a little thing which can prove vital i frequently play on my xbox and beside me have my laptop ready in case i want to look at the PZB reference guide which is very handy and is what helped me be able to use PZB. i really think they need to re go through how they do tutorials as like changing the destination names is a bit of trial and error with the new high tech trains.
     
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  5. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    The word “SIM” is in the title, we are not experts, to throw us in the deep end without a life jacket is wrong but this is not the first time this has happened
     
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  6. Jb431

    Jb431 New Member

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    I’ve done the same, especially after I accidentally E stopped on the first run I made. I ended up searching for the procedure to reset the 1972 for 30 minutes, and never found it.
     
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  7. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    A manual really would make things so much easier. Questions like turning carriage lights on would only be asked a handful of times as opposed to every other thread.

    Documentation is one of the most important things, especially for simulators. This is something that shouldn't be relied on a third party producing for free.
     
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  8. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    Almost 2 hours of German signaling and PZB tutorial with Matt himself.
     
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  9. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Dovetail Special Projects Staff Member

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    Matt's stream notwithstanding, it's not unreasonable to ask for a manual. I'll chase this up with the internal timetablers.
     
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  10. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    Stream was good but only scratches the surface, we need a manual especially when you go for a sim experience, it’s absolutely essential for us to get the most out of the experience you have created for us, we paid the price to enjoy the game NOT spend time online trying to research what to do next
     
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  11. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

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  12. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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    I think you have missed what were meaning we know there are manuals but they don't go into much detail example how to turn passenger lights on or set your destination for the train it's all a bit of guess work. for people who are first buyers to tsw2 they won't have a clue how to use for example pzb sifa and afb or understanding german signals so they either have to go on youtube or use a manual from another route that explains it. i would rather have an in depth manual explaining things than having a manual tell me what the tutorial has told
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2020
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  13. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    That’s a very basic start up guide, not a proper instruction manual
     
  14. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    The number of questions regarding the game is embarrassing and frustrating, DTG really needs to take a long hard look at themselves and make sure proper manuals release with all future content, we are gamers, if we wanted to research then we wouldn’t be buying games, not knowing so many things sucks the life out of the experience you are trying to craft and leave players/customer’s frustrated instead of enjoying the game we just bought

    DTG REALLY NEED TO TAKE NOTE OF THIS AND THIS POST NEEDS TO BE SHOWN AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL
     
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  15. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    I don’t agree with that at all. You as a gamer might not like to have to research things or have everything explained. I personally like when I have to use my brain a little. DTG explain the base experience of Train Sim World, if you want to take it more seriously then I would do the research.
     
  16. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    As a paying customer, the information I need to get the most out of the product should be supplied, you keep researching, us gamers want to play, if I wanted to research I would buy books not games, simple as that really
     
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  17. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    If you look at DTG collection of manuals, you will find a collection of 101 pages in total of information pertaining on how to start locomotives, passenger and freight procedures and signal information, it also gives an overview of the safety systems. Again they give us the basic level information that is required and then some. What would you like from them exactly?
     
  18. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    And how many pages for the TSW 2 content?
     
  19. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    Is that today’s stupid question? take your rose tinted glasses off and stop being a fan boy, the manual needs to be as big as it needs to be to cover the game and operation of the trains and all systems, you’re in the wrong forum if you don’t like criticism of the game have you read all the other posts?
     
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  20. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    If you actually took your rose tinted glasses off, you'd actually know I support you in the quest for decent manuals. The quick start guide provided for TSW2 is not an adequate manual.

    I even commented earlier in this thread to support the need for manuals. Even more ironic when you're querying if I have read the previous posts.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2020
  21. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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    if you look at the manual most of the time i see people on facebook always asking how to activate pzb afb how to turn the passenger lights on the ICE all things i think should be on the manual i don't see why you wouldn't. many people won't know where to look if your a first time buyer to the tsw 2 game to look up for manuals they probably think all the info will be shown in the tutorial or if there was a manual. this is an example of a loco manual i will show off to compare the difference between a DB BR 442 talent 2 and what we got from tsw 2's manual on the DB BR 442 talent 2 Screenshot (25).png Screenshot (26).png
     
  22. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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  23. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    I apologise LucusLLC I thought the question was being asked by someone else, except my apologies, maybe I need new glasses

    A detailed manual is what is expected from a SIM, not a quick start guide and hours of researching google, again, I apologise for my rudeness
     
  24. olikas.g

    olikas.g Member

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    I play TSW on console. When I first played one of the scenarios of the American route in the original game, I managed to stall the loco after half an hour gameplay. Then restart, and got to the same situation. That's when I started to google whether anybody faced a similar issue. That's how I found the forum, then after spending hours reading posts, somebody mentioned the manual. I searched for it and turned out that it was available in a steam link. That was 3(?) years ago. Finding the manual was hours of googling for me, as I didn't know that I should look for one.
    Today I visited my DTG Live profile the first time, and found out that there is a section for manuals.

    Another anecdote, I always follow the HUD signals as they are easier to read than the real one (except for the British signals). TSW didn't have zoom, so it was difficult to see it from a distance. Anyway, I looked up the german signalling in the manual (again back in TSW) and realised that it is just too much info for me to enjoy the game. All I wanted is the game to teach me. The manual existed, after hours of research (above) I found it. It did answer my question but it was not fun reading.

    I'd rather watch a tutorial video like Matt's latest German signalling and safety, then read a manual. But what is most important for me, that it should be accessible from the game. If I need to google, then I'm not playing. (I like learning about stuff, so since then I did read all this info, and mostly forgot. I still haven't understood US signalling basics until today.) Even if a comprehensive manual would be available, I wouldn't read it, because I want to play, not read. I _want the game_ to provide a way to tell me what is wrong, e.g. train is not moving because hidden switch is in wrong position, or emergency brakes are applied because safety system X is not acknowledged. So that next time I have a chance not making the same mistake.
     
  25. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - no need to stoke the flames of this argument]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2020
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  26. 52hahgz

    52hahgz New Member

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    I totally agree with Samo1.
    Tutorials are just good for a quick start but a thorough review of all available switches / buttons / levers in the cab would have been much appreciated. Manuals available online are ok, but some info are still missing. After three days of playing, I still have to figure out how to turn on line the light in the ICE coaches ... (Yes, I read the manual).
    What's really missing is a manual or tutorial to help users to cope with issue during the game, like trains not moving or diesel engines not revving up. Something like : "Engine not revving up? Check this brake lever or Check this switch or whatever".
     
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  27. roggek

    roggek Member

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    I think the OP more need a form of "glossary/technical/Q&A-dictionary" for the game, and I must agree totally with the OP.

    I still don't know what some of the functions on a 1972MkII tube train "does" or "means"...
    The only thing I have been explained so far, is that the proper vocalubury for the doors are either open or closed, (not lockjed or unlocked):)
     
  28. Jb431

    Jb431 New Member

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    I disagree. While I have no issue researching or figuring some things out, there are portions of this game that should either be explained, or actually have resources available to help figure out the issue. There are very few resources available that provide info for TSW 2, and what you can find is either user generated, or from other versions of the game. Things like setting up and operating multiple units, recovering from E stops, etc shouldn’t just be guess work or require you spend more time searching online vs actually playing the game. This is especially true for periods like right now, when the game is newly released and there aren’t many guides available for new locos and routes.
     
  29. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I mainly have an issue where the game goes through what to do but leaves an important thing out. I’m looking at you, MU-2A valve. I also have an issue with the random availability of the manuals. The manual for TSW2 doesn’t yet exist, but there is a quick start guide. Some TSW2020 content never got a manual despite referring to one in the tutorials.

    When I started out with TSW2020, the manuals were only on Steam and it was nice as a console user to find this out only via the use of Google and head scratching. I missed the Peninsular Corridor manual somehow and found a lot of the info I wanted about the freight operations in the old CSX Heavy Haul manual, before I actually found the correct one. But it did exist, the TSW2 manual doesn’t, yet. The recent addition of the manuals page on Dovetail Live has helped but who would think of going to read manuals of content they don’t have to find out how to use content they do. Not many. But that is what you still have to do for TSW2 because the info in the quick guide is basic.

    There is a lot of “is it broken or am I breaking it?” in TSW. You can either see that as a challenge or a pain in the neck. I wonder how many who see it as a pain in the neck just give up. Give those people the information they need and they might stick around.
     
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  30. laineshapiro186498

    laineshapiro186498 New Member

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    Ive already sent 2 emails to Dovetail. No where in the tutorials does it explain how to manage the braking system. And now im on Q353-Manifest-Cumberland to Willard...dont expect to make to to Mance the second checkpoint cuz the wheelslip is constant and the sand doesnt work and you cant keep enough speed with the 2 "power units" pushing you.
     
  31. Sashco

    Sashco Member

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    Trial and error, its the best way to learn! :)

    But yeah, you are right!
     
  32. DeStijl

    DeStijl Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly it - even if you do everything correctly, there is a good chance that you'll still fail because of a signal that stays red, or some other broken game mechanic.

    Unfortunately, even in last night's stream, it seemed that the focus was on adding things like destination boards, etc to the older routes, rather than fixing the bugs. The routes need to work properly before any other features are even relevant - no one should care about destination boards when you can't make it to the destination because of the bugs anyway.
     
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  33. Sashco

    Sashco Member

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    But I do have a question. I can't remember if this was driving Class 47 or Class 101 NTP locos, but I think it was Class 101. I clearly remember there being a button "DGD" or something...it was never explained what this did, and I remember I was driving once and thought; "hmmm...lemme see what it does."......

    The whole train just shut down. Everything. Couldn't even restart it. The engines wouldn't start. Completely dead.

    I never bothered trying to find out what it was for, but if you put it there, might be worth explaining what it does...
     
  34. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    Please remember this is a post on lack of MANUALS
    there are plenty of other post about other subjects, thanks
     
  35. Sashco

    Sashco Member

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    Are you referring to my post on the DGD button? I feel that that is something that should definitely come with a manual explaining what it does. So I see it as part of this thread.

    Same with having a manual explaining how to get those old trains going after you Emergency-break and the train stops completely. This goes for both NTP and WSR routes. Can't remember the name of that old 6 wheel loco on WSR, with max speed of 40km/h, if you mess that one up, good luck restarting it.

    For someone who just wants to enjoy operating locos, these kinda things are essential as they are much part of the driving experience as when everything functions properly. But for newbies, having to deal with trying to find out what the H is wrong and how to restart a loco can get overwhelming. I know it was for me and it was only solid amount of patience that made me figure things out and actually continue playing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020
  36. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    So many game questions/frustration would have been avoided with a proper manual, leaving the forum free for technical issues, which can happen with a new release but asking how to turn lights on and other similar basic questions because we are not told is simply unacceptable, someone at DTG should be employed to write a proper manual that is ready for release the day new content is released so we can get the most out of the product from the moment we fire it up, it DTG bought a new piece of software they were not familiar with and wanted the very least they would expect is the full instructions on how to use it, I want and expect the same and I’m not alone, research and trial and error are not what I pay for
     
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  37. 52hahgz

    52hahgz New Member

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    Here is another example. I spent a considerable amount of time looking for a way to turn on the alerter in the cab of the Dash9 locomotive, but I failed. I downloaded the Sand Patch manual for PC and read the alerter is only activated by pressing Ctrl + numeric pad Enter; it didn't work. So I tried every possible combination of keys and (at last) found the right one: Shift + Enter.
    Basically no manual available so far can tell the user how to activate the alerter, which is a key component in a railway simulator. Quite unacceptable to me.
     
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