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So Much Negativity But It’s All Justified

Discussion in 'PlayStation Discussion' started by Samo1, Sep 12, 2020.

  1. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Maybe You are right, but these SPG anomalies are old as the world :)

    I think, however, the company puts the burden on expanding its portfolio and the amount of sales. Maybe "Adam's Team" will carve something. Rather, it's a deliberate neglect. I've been playing this for a few years and the same complaints keep going. I'm glad, when to omit that, the game gets better.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  2. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I agree that the overground section is very bad when it comes to stuttering, and using the exterior camera is more or less out of the question while on the move because of it. It needs work doing on it for sure but with Köln Aachen also stuttering a fair bit I don’t think it’s a specific route issue, more that the core game needs optimising, and as an ongoing process, I wouldn’t expect to see it on the roadmap. If it is an actual route problem (dodgy asset etc.) then I would expect to see it.
     
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  3. Slemcer

    Slemcer Active Member

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    The job of a quality tester isn't done by playing by the rules. There definitely has to be a stress test for the game and for all the scenarios, doing as much things wrong as possible! We now see what happens if this isn't done at all or not done most thoroughly.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
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  4. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    It’s always a worry when Matt and Sam talk on streams about time limits for making routes and there lies one of the problems nailed, if you’re going to do a job do it properly or don’t bother doing it at all, it’s very easy to see what’s rushed and why so much looks and feels undercooked, there is no real love and care put into the product it’s like a production line and what comes off the end is good to go, far more time, effort, love and testing need to be put in every route and if that holds up releases and a bit of profit so be it because if DTG continually bites the hand that feeds them then no one will feed them anymore, DTG really need to get out the habit of releasing bog standard software and go the EXTRA MILE to please the hands that feed them so we are all happy to continue the journey and part with our money
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
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  5. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    I agree. That's what happened with the original ECW. Not a perfect route, but it bleeds passion and love for details. After that release, DTG just delivered sub-par products... The key word should be sloppiness...
     
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  6. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    So true.
    And the journey looks promising and terrifying at the same time. Also for the wallet :D

     
  7. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    But it is bad quality management if so many bugs were able to get past them. They need to look more into things instead of just releasing the game. There is so much talk about bad quality management because there is a large number of bugs in the game that ruins immersion and for a “simulator”, that’s not a good thing.
     
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  8. septafan

    septafan Active Member

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    If the complaints are this hardcore and bugs people to this extent i recommend play another sim or just stop playing this one and the stress of quality from this product won't flame your unhappy fires.
     
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  9. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    It’s not easy to give up something you love though. It’s definitely a love hate relationship. Love the game. Hate the bugs and quality issues.
     
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  10. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Is this an argument for or against? On the topic of discussion :D
     
  11. septafan

    septafan Active Member

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    True but the constant throw of insults and complaints won't help anything any quicker. We don't know how many teams they have working or if they doing things from home which most are. Fixes and others things are slow to process at the moment. Im going with the fact that they said once all preserve routes are released as is like they stated and the preserve team switch to working on bugs and other issues we will see a turn around. I understand we have high expectations for this sim but by it being new we have to give them a chance. Also with FPS i don't expect it to be super perfect like a P.C the console have alot of limitations and based on how detailed this game is the console is running full force i believe. My PS4 pro runs smooth and i have little FPS skips so that issue varies between other players.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
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  12. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Even more difficult to give up if you play on console.
     
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  13. skyMutt

    skyMutt Active Member

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    The more I read these comments the more I think they're genuinely being exaggerated.
    Sloppiness? Undercooked? Lies?

    Yeah, what I'm about to say might come off as crazy, but in my opinion I think you guys have way too high of an expectation for this game. Allow me to reiterate. TSW doesn't have the budget or the manpower as a triple A game, and even those are bug-ridden as well.
    The fact is, it's just the way it is with games like these.
    Theres an absolute crud ton of things going on in the background that the player doesn't see. Physics calculations. Scenery tiles loading and unloading. Pathing for trains and passengers. Signal logic.
    Software and code can be very delicate...try to fix one thing, and 10 more issues pop up, potentially something game-breaking.
    This is basically the gist of what seems to be going on right now. Right now their priorities is to fix whatever bugs prevent the players from...well...playing the game. Its a minefield that they've got to navigate. Add in time-constraints, and now you'll start to see why things are the way they are.
    Calling it sloppy work is a bit unfair when thats just the situation we're in now.

    A lot of the things you guys are calling bugs are really just 'quality of life' issues...which isn't really what they're focusing on at this moment.
    I see plenty of collisions and clipping on the Bakerloo line between trains and platforms. On SKA theres ICE3's parked at Düren that have blurring issues when you pass them. On Sand Patch Grade, the sounds are subpar and have this weird loop to them.
    These are all not ideal...but they're quality of life issues. I can still play the game and complete objectives and move on with my day. TSW2 has only been out for close to a month, so worrying about stability and game-crashing issues is a perfectly reasonable thing for them to do. Things will be ironed out as time passes.

    There's a ton of work that this game needs, frankly TSW still feels like its in its early years. But theres been a lot of progress going on now, with third-party support slowly becoming a thing now. TSW2 is miles ahead of its predecessor and it feels like its starting to become something substantial...the addition of a roadmap was a major stepping stone for this game.

    Keep on with the bug reports, sure, thats all fine and dandy. But I think that complaining about the game and clouding it with all this negativity is unjust, especially when things have changed soo much over the past year. Keep your expectations mild, and you'll hardly ever be disappointed much... ;)
     
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  14. septafan

    septafan Active Member

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    Also some members should check their system setting and make sure it’s running top notch! I have my Pro settings set on the highest settings
     
  15. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    Good for you and your pro settings, what about the rest of us that pay the same money with crap performance?
     
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  16. skyMutt

    skyMutt Active Member

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    Realistically you can go out and get yourself an SSD to replace the hard drive in your PS4, shouldn't matter whether its the slim, the standard one, or the pro. That should net you some better performance and load times.

    If you're short on cash and don't want to spend money to upgrade to an SSD, you can always just defrag your hard drive on the PS4, that should help clean things up and help make things run smoother. There's a bunch of other minor performance tips you could try on your PS4.
    TSW doesnt really ran like crap on consoles, I see comparable performance in other games too.
     
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  17. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    The game is supposed to be made for consoles, why should you have to alter your console run it.

    That's the idea behind gaming consoles. A standard machine, the same for everyone, that games are made specifically for.

    They were designed to take away the minimum and recommended specifications of the PC world and wondering whether a game would run.
     
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  18. skyMutt

    skyMutt Active Member

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    True, though what I mentioned were really just suggestions if ones not satisfied with the performance. Something that could be done right away if the user wishes to do so.
    But yeah, I do agree with what you're saying there. Having a console should guarantee you to at least some form of good performance. Problem is, thats a subjective thing for many people. How good is good enough?
    Can't really expect to satisfy everyone.
    But for those individuals who want more out of their PS4's...they could just defrag their hard drives. Clean out the fans. See if that helps?

    We could always nag the devs to improve performance, but surely they've got that at the back of their minds 24/7 already?
     
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  19. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    I connected an SSD to my standard PS4 because I really really wanted to see this game run better. Guess, I just noticed some slight improvement in loading times, and that's it. Freezing issues are not hard disk related. Period
     
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  20. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I know it's a "bit" off-topic, but... Seriously? Are you running this game on a washing machine or is it just bad? Way to go, DTG... PC gamers, I feel you...

     
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  21. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, this new TS is a real mess :)
     
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  22. skyMutt

    skyMutt Active Member

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    Shoddy performance, yeah. Thats what happens when you push an engine that was developed a decade ago. TS2021 sure has its ups and downs
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
  23. Lenwigg

    Lenwigg Active Member

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    Well said. And being a smaller gaming company and with them having to work from home quite a bit I would think it is understandable that there are some problems. And I think they are just as upset and annoyed with the problems as we are, maybe more

    I have only been gaming for five years but have played quite a few different games and I have never known any of the others to have members of the management team come online giving videos to show their games. Or to give help videos for their games or to answer questions about it live online.

    I feel they are very genuine when they say they are fixing things and people should give them a bit more of a chance as they are only a small company trying to make a game that I for one thoroughly enjoy even with the bugs, and I have come up against quite a few. At the time some of the bigger ones can be annoying for a few seconds then I just move on.

    So no in my opinion all this negativity is not justified at all give them a chance, give them more than a month. It can't be easy especially if they love the game and have put a lot of love and hard work into this game then reading everyone slagging it, and even worse in my opinion, them off.

    They get my vote and my money.
     
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  24. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Not so small, at all. Considering how many different products they have on sale (a few...) - quite a big company. For me, TSW2 is superior and 'love it, but criticism is needed. They messed up a bit :D
     
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  25. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Being a small company is no excuse, look at SCS who produce the Truck Simulator series, much smaller company who manage to produce a quality product. The difference being they don't keep churning out DLC's relentlessly, they wait until it's ready.

    As for working from home, by the look of their latest offerings, it looks like some of them may have been letting their kids help them with the artwork.

    As for giving them a chance, I think everyone on these forums is giving them a chance, the difference is some of us would rather pay them money for a product that is is of a decent quality rather than crowd funding them for something that might be acceptable one day, if they don't get bored and decide to either create another "NEW" but remarkably similar game or just ditch it all together like they did with the flight sim and appear to be doing with the fishing games.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
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  26. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    Brilliant :D
     
  27. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    Problems started long before working from home and many from the last game (TSW2020] were never fixed, want to defend that? Every product is rushed to meet a deadline whether it’s ready to launch or not, that’s sticking two fingers up a paying customers but it’s time to wise up now, I won’t be buying until I read feedback and see new routes in action, you can only be burned so many times
     
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  28. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. TSW2020 wasn't developed during a lockdown and it was bugged as hell. Some of those bugs are still there after 3 years.
     
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  29. skyMutt

    skyMutt Active Member

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    If youre burnt out to this extent, it might be a healthy choice to pull away and take a break. I did the same thing before TSW2 released, I came back, and found myself enjoying the game again with the new routes and such.

    I still stand by what I say however. This game is far from perfect, but I still find myself having fun driving around and learning how things operate. The largest issue with TSW...in a gist... is that things get put out, but might not have polish on it. It doesn't feel like they're going the extra mile.
    Thats how its been throughout TSW2020's life cycle. Legacy content was sort of left as is. Any improvements were put into newer DLCs.

    But TSW2 has brought a major shift, and it genuinely feels like they're putting a whole lot more care into the game. Thats the reason why I think its worth sticking around. Theres been an insane amount of progress made in the last few months than in the entire year of 2019. They're finally starting to go the extra mile. That's how it feels like, at least to me
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
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  30. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    Seriously, some users keep saying TSW2 is a big improvement, with a lot of new features. A totally new game compared to TSW2020... I'm not looking for arguments, just trying to understand, because I can't see this revolution. The new adhesion system? Bugged (trains skid even in the underground tunnels when it's raining outside and behave erratically at best). The new interface? Almost every youtuber I follow switched back to the classic configuration because the new one is definitely worse on camera controls. No external views inside tunnels? I can understand this choice on Bakerloo Line, but what about other routes? Why do I have to wait for ages to see my 1 mile long train coming out of a tunnel? The textures resolution is a big downgrade. Take a closer look at walls, signs, even trains, and compare them to GWR, the oldest TSW route... Better performances? Mmm, no. The preserved collection is a festival of bugs, some of them not even there in the original releases. Oh, right, now we have working platform displays...
     
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  31. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    And yes, I stopped playing TSW2 last week, when I realized they messed the sound up even on Ruhr Sieg Nord...
     
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  32. Lenwigg

    Lenwigg Active Member

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    Well said again. I only started with TSW2020 just a few months ago, and after a very short time I knew I had found a game for me. Over a few weeks I purchased most of the DLC's, one map to get the next time it is on offer and a few locos. Then I heard about TSW2 coming out and thought typical after only just starting with the game and all that paying out they are bringing out another.

    Then I read that all bar one of the DLC's I had purchased would come across to TSW2. How good is that I thought as all the other games that I have and have purchased DLC's for none of them would allow me to play those DLC's on their new games.

    I thought at the time it is bound to be forty or fifty pounds when it comes out so I will wait until it comes down in price then get it as long as the reviews were good. Then I found out that it would only be twenty five pounds, (and ended up even less than that for me) I again thought fantastic I can put the money aside and get it on release. And I did and I have no regrets at all, not one, not half of one.

    I think with all the streams they do they are helping a lot and I think they are as passionate about getting it right and getting it as good as possible just as much as we want it right and as good as possible.

    I have never enjoyed any game so much as I do this game and often it is difficult to get off of it. But being retired I am lucky that I do not have to get up early for work (I did that for thirty three years up between 03:00 and 03:30), so I play until I start to feel tired. And watching others streaming I feel I have made a few friends over the last few months even though I don't really know them.

    Obviously I suppose my expectations for a game are lower than a lot of others. Mine are, enjoyment, fun, excitement and many hours of play to name a few. And TSW2 has all that and more for me, and I am sure, many others.
     
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  33. septafan

    septafan Active Member

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    Go change your setting and see if you get better performance i did it with my regular PS4 before i purchased the Pro so give it a shot and see what happens.
     
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  34. BigH

    BigH Active Member

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    I am playing TSW 2020 often at the moment, because i want to get the Platinum Trophy. Only 4, lengthy, Trophies are missing and i have not seen a game breaking bug, yet. I don´t have all the DLC, but most of it. It´s not perfect, sure, but defenitely playable and enjoyable.
     
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  35. richard cooper

    richard cooper Member

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    Septafan, I was interested to read you play ps4 pro on highest settings. I to have the pro, only had it a couple of weeks though and generally impressed by the improvement in Tsw2 graphic quality. How do you change to highest settings though.?.
     
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  36. septafan

    septafan Active Member

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    Go to settings then sound and screen. Go to video output, then set resolution to automatic as it will adjust to your T.V highest quality settings, set RGB to automatic as well, set HDR to automatic, set deep color output to automatic. My resolution is 3840x2160-60Hz. My color format is YUV422 (HDR). If you don’t have a 4K T.V turn on supersampling
     
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  37. richard cooper

    richard cooper Member

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    Thanks for info, will try that.
     
  38. BigH

    BigH Active Member

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    All of what septafan explained and you could try switching Boost Mode on. It may help, it may not.

    I´ve got a hybrid SSD/HDD in my Pro from the beginning and loading times are definitely faster. Noticeable in Multiplayer Games, when Team Members are still in loading screens while i´m already in the game (e.g. theHunter).
     
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  39. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    So true, we get used to everything. Sick and tired of bugs, I came back to TSW2020 and, well, it looks beautiful now :D The light stuttering on GWE looks non-existent if compared to Bakerloo Line. No sound bugs on ECW, RSN or HRR. Cockpit textures on german routes and Peninsula Corridor are perfect. LIRR is still a mess, but nevermind :D
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
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  40. BigH

    BigH Active Member

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    Honest questions. Why did you buy all the DLC when TSW 2020 was full of bugs? Why did you buy TSW 2 when you didn´t enjoy playing the previous ones? Why not wait and see how it turns out? I don´t understand this.
    Nobody on this Forum and at DTG is saying that the games are bug free and run perfectly. If all this bothers you so much, stop playing, as suggested before. If that´s not an option, please stop spreading this negativity.
     
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  41. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    DTG needs to see the criticism, they’ve said it themselves. We are not trying to spread negativity, we are trying to bring the problems that are in the game to light. The community has noticed DTG not really caring much about the TSW franchise by not putting out bug fixes. There are many bugs that were in TSW when it first came out with GWR that still haven’t been fixed to this day. If we have any chance of them trying to fix their game, it’s by showing them that we know they aren’t doing their best, and criticizing their way of creation. I’m pretty sure we all like TSW on this thread. Personally, I really like it because it’s the only train sim I can get on consoles. DTG says this game will feel immersive, however, it won’t feel immersive if you have floating passengers, things clipping through the train, and unrealistic placing of items (along with other things). DTG should’ve bug tested the game more, they should’ve gotten real train operators to test the game (send a pre-release copy to them) so we can avoid some of the incorrect things. Nothing is perfect, but for this to be a SIMULATOR, it has to realistically SIMULATE whatever route you are playing. For some people like me, on a console, this is our only train simulator, we can’t just not play it as we have the urge to experience different transportation systems across the world.
     
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  42. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    People are allowed to purchase stuff and be disappointed. Just because it doesn't fit your view point doesn't mean it's wrong nor does it mean it's correct.

    I've purchased 90% of the DLC available for TSW and TSW 2. Firstly, there's no alternative on console, so if I want a train game then this is all I can play. Secondly, sometimes DTG do actually produce a good product. However, it's not wrong for me to want the game to be a bit more polished, for some bugs to be resolved. It's also not wrong for me to expect the communication from the company to be better (it has improved, but it's still nowhere near the level of should be).

    Eventually it will lead me to stop buying DLC (I'm already pickier than I used to be), and that's not a position the company should encourage
     
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  43. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    Read my old post from last year: I genuinely appreciated TSW2020, with all its pros and cons, and it's by far the game I played the most in my entire life, even more than my beloved Flight Simulator 2004. This doesn't mean I can passively accept everything from DTG, starting from poor quality control. I happily welcomed the DTG choice to opt for a new game instead of a TSW2021, potentially a good way to get rid of all those issues. And I was waiting for a good underground simulator since the first World of Subways. The hype was maybe too high and I expressed my disappointment here, just a few hours from the game release. I was the only one, but after a few weeks it seems that problems were not just in my head, as you can see from the exploding technical reports section of this forum. The disgraceful release of West Coast Main Line for TS2021 is paradigmatic on how DTG is acting recently, with little or no respect for thousands of loyal customers. And well, DTG is the only choice for a train enthusiast, especially on console.
     
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  44. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    DTG are a conveyor belt of DLC quantity, unfortunately there is very little quality on offer, all DLC looks/feels rushed with no polish or love, it just a conveyor belt of mediocrity
     
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  45. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    And some of you seem to forget this is not a freeware. In that case I would say " well, no problem, at least I didn't pay anything for that". If you ask money for your stuff, you have the duty to deliver a product you tested... at least...
     
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  46. BigH

    BigH Active Member

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    I was answering to this one post. Not something from last year or whenever. People are making suggestions on how to, maybe, improve the experience of the game and all you can do is post a cynical answer. That´s not my idea of criticism, that´s arguing just for the sake of it.

    And for the record, i know it´s not freeware, i don´t deny bugs or graphical or sound issues, i don´t care about TS2021. Why bring this up anyway?

    I´ve been to the SCS forum the other day, because somebody mentioned they are so much better. Well, sound issues, framerate drops, graphical glitches all apearing after a recent update. Huh, bad quality management, i thought ;) and left. Off topic probably, i know.
     
  47. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    How about getting someone from QUALITY CONTROL AND TESTING to appear on a live stream to explain their job and what they actually do......... and obviously DON’T do ???????
     
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  48. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    I feel like they do their job, but either they miss the LARGE amount of bugs in the game, or they just aren’t doing their job hard enou- yea that’s the same thing...

    I’ve said this before, they need their own testers that they have in DTG, and they also need to bring in IRL train operators to test the routes. That’s the only way we can have authentic Routes/Locos. And, that can remove the possibility that the game release without what? TRACK NOISE?!
     
  49. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

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    Monday’s stream (21/09) was full of honesty, “we know this needs improving, we know that needs improving, we know this isn’t acceptable” then why the hell release stuff half baked? YOU KNOW STUFF IS HALF BAKED, it’s not a shock to you when the complaints come in, you take the decision to release, cash in and take the flak after, it’s a lousy way to operate, last night again being honest and credit for being honest you admitted there were people needed to complete certain tasks that you need to sort out, again this comes across as a number of enthusiasts working on a pet project rather than a professional company who know what they are actually doing, the trouble is as enthusiasts you have bit off more than you can chew but while there are those willing to continue to keep you ticking over buying substandard DLC you will carry on exactly as you are, I’m sorry for being harsh but like last nights stream I’m trying to be honest in my opinions as well
     
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  50. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Either they just made a bad decision on releasing this game half baked. Or, they could be testing how much they can get away with before the community stops buying DLC/Playing the game altogether. But that’s just a theory, a game theory.

    I really want to support the devs with the future DLC’s, but with the way it’s looking, I’m only gonna have my TSW 2020 routes and Isle of Wight.
     
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