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So There Is No One Satisfied Here

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by zawal.belili, Oct 12, 2020.

  1. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest

    hi

    I created this topic just to find out if there are any people happy with TSW2.

    Considering the huge amount of negative message there is on the forum I wonder if anyone is happy with the game or not, because this is getting really bad.

    I also note that it is always the same people who "rotten" the subjects of others with their permanent negativity.

    As far as I'm concerned, after playing on TS for 10 years and creating a 20en of lines, I can say that I really like TSW2.

    I love TSW2 so much that I quit playing TS altogether.
    I even uninstalled TS recently, I was more than fed up with repeated crashes.

    TSW2 is working normally by not crashing my PC at least.

    Anyway, there are people here who like TSW2 or not? ....

    THX.
     
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  2. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    I for myself enjoy TSW 2 a lot. I am currently watching videos from MS Train Simulator and I see how far the graphics have come in the last years. I think, a big thing is that there are so many people liking that game to an extend that they get so passionate about these bugs that I may seem that there is only negativity here.

    Its not the game I dislike at times. Its some decision of the developers.
     
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  3. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Look, people are complaining because they love the game, but it obviously got problems. But people like and and want it to be better, therefore all the complaining.

    But even despite this there are many people who are still happy. But sadly things are in a kinda bad shape right now, so all the negativity I think is understandable. But hopefully all this preserved collection mess will be sorted out soon and things will start to improve. Also hopefully the upcoming new routes will also be good, which would also help the general atmosphere around here.
     
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  4. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    I love TSW's strengths. I hate the weaknesses of the TSW.
    I praise the strengths. I criticize the weaknesses.

    There are more advantages. It's worth throwing in a little criticism for the sake of balance :D
    PS and these all preserved heresies... ekhm bugs
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2020
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  5. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest

    Ok alright.
    So you relieve me.
    For a moment I thought no one liked this game.
    I think it would be good for everyone to put a bit of joy and good humor here, otherwise we risk sending everyone elsewhere.
    Not to mention that the newcomers will surely ask if the game is worth it or not so calm one can all that please.

    Thank you all.
     
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  6. BigMountain555

    BigMountain555 Well-Known Member

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    I love it even though it is not perfect, but then again, what is perfect? I thoroughly enjoy playing this simulator. The bugs do not stop me from playing the game. I am not looking at things with a microscope to find little unimportant imperfections such as "the shadow in that corner is too dark" or "the wheel does not sparkle the way I like it."

    Sure there are problems. Every single piece of software contains bugs. We can't come here expecting any company to fix 100% of the known bugs and ensure the entire system is perfectly flawless. Finding and fixing bugs is a part of software development. If someone thinks they can do it better, then go ahead and create your own product to compete.

    I will agree that I don't like things such as the empty promises made about the TGV. That has never been fixed and they have stopped updating that thread. But on the flip side, I still enjoy playing the TGV routes in TS2021.

    I try not to write many posts because of the toxicity on these forums. I find no matter what one says, or what the company does, there will be vey loud voices of dissent. I prefer to enjoy the product and read about trains, fixes, etc. I am not going to come here complaining and arguing and trying to force a company to make everything perfect for me. If things are that bad, I don't have to buy the product.

    But to answer the original question, yes, I am satisfied. I enjoy this franchise and this my friends, is my opinion.
     
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  7. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I like TSW2. I’m not completely happy with it at the moment but I play it every day. There’s been a lot going on with it and the preserved collection isn’t up to scratch yet but I’m still getting enjoyment and value for money from it.

    I hear what DTG are saying about improvements that will be coming once all the old routes are in and although we might be in for a bit of a wait for some issues to be dealt with there is still a great deal that works well enough to be getting on with. I’d like to feel confident that it will just get better and better from now on, it’s just there might have been too many problems in a short space of time for even the biggest fans of the game to be all upbeat about it.

    We do like a moan and we do like to bring all the issues to the attention of the devs and complain that they are not fixing things quickly enough but we do that because we love it and want it be the best it can be.
     
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  8. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Well-Known Member

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    TSW2 has more good than bad. DTG has more bad than good. DTG is slightly improving. TSW2 is getting a bit worse.

    Future will tell.
     
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  9. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    I spend 90% of my train simming time in TS. However I do like TSW and welcome the overall move to a more modern engine, especially one with a well documented framework which makes tweaking easier in many cases. I think it's still rough around the edges and growing and is going to take time. Like most sims, it's not a completed game but rather a platform unpon which to be built over time. It is sad, however, the way DTG are very openly holding back the PC version due to Xbox and PS.

    Things I like about TSW:
    -Timetable mode. You don't know how frustrating it is wanting to drive a train with actual scheduled and instructed stops, you know, like a real train service, but not already have a scenario in TS20xx to do so. Off to the workshop to find out that somewhat matches what I want, or go waste a whole bunch of time creating a scenario from scratch in the powerful but quirky editor. I WISH WISH WISH WISH DTG would bring a timetable services mode to TS20xx.
    - Graphical fidelity. While far from a shining example of what unreal engine is capable of, there's no doubt TSW2 looks good. Especially the train models. With a bunch of addons I have TS2021 looking very nice but there's a limit to texture resolution and level of detail that UE and TSW2 bring that TS20xx simply cannot. They still need to sort out shadows which are pretty terrible in their LOD without engine.ini tweaks and the fact that there simply are no shadows outside of a 100m ring around the train makes for some very ugly distant scenery that they need to improve. Still, it generally looks rather pretty.
    - Going walkabout. It is nice to having working doors, walk around the train and station, etc. Makes me feel more like a person driving a train rather than the train itself which TS can sometimes feel like.
    -Scenerio editor. It is extremely rudimentary compared to TS20xx, but DTG have pledged to continue to improve it and it's already worlds more user friendly than the TS20xx editor.

    However, at the end of the day, 90% of the time I spend is in TS because
    1. I have more routes
    2. I have more trains
    3. The routes are longer and more complete (ie, I can drive the Great Western Mainlines from Penzance to Paddington if I fancy. TSW2 I can do Paddington to...Reading. Yea, a bit disappointing
    4. An active community making freeware and payware. There are new routes and trains being released almost on a weekly basis by DTG, one of the third party devs, or freeware from the community itself. Just two weeks ag ATS released his Cambridge to Peterborough route and this week Just Trains had their Erewash Valley extension to their MML.
     
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  10. rat7_mobile

    rat7_mobile Active Member

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    I have tried TS2020,and I am extremely disappointed with it, I still can not find how to release the extra wagon as you can not exit the train

    TSW on the other hand, I love it, it very well done so far (bugs, but there are with every software), I can actually go out and release the extra wagon, and the European railroad hook them to the train, and actually get a sense of the length of the train by walking up and down it
     
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  11. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    I like TSW.

    I don’t like the various bugs/glitches that are in TSW.
     
  12. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    As I said in a previous thread, I've pretty much abandoned TS (and the thousands of dollars I have invested) at least for the time being, in favor of TSW2. So, yes, I'm very satisfied with it. It's hard to go back to a game that doesn't let you walk around and work in a freight yard etc. I was never one for much editing or modding so the lack of an editor doesn't bother me much. I just feel that TSW has so much more potential in the long term.
     
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  13. wxtr7

    wxtr7 Active Member

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    There are many people that enjoy TSW. Isn't there a "well done DTG" thread somewhere? I generally enjoyed TSW2020, aside from the things that remove immersion for me, like bad audio quality, but are pretty much subjective things. I really want to enjoy TSW2, but the current state of the preserved collection and the issues with saving the game make it hard for me to want to play it, at the moment. So it's not that I don't like the game, I just don't like the way DTG has handled the preserved collection rollout, especially because we don't know when those fixes will come given their current game plan of getting all preserved content out first then fixing things. Ultimately I'd like to uninstall TSW2020 as I'm running out of space on the drive where steam installs (and I don't have the means to add a new drive right now), but I can't since I still play it. That said, the improved physics is a plus and I'm interested in some of the coming routes on the roadmap (US especially).

    Honestly I would say, in general, most criticism I've seen here is done in a constructive manner and usually good conversations emerge, as we all want to see the product we pay for improve (and a little debate here and there isn't a bad thing). What I've noticed tends to bleed out of all these threads is one of two things, either the DTG fan bois show up because they won't let even an ounce of criticism occur (even if constructive), or you get someone on the other side of the spectrum that throws a tantrum and whines. Either way, these derail the thread and things get off topic and when this happens in multiple threads, it tends to be the message that bleeds out.
     
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  14. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Well-Known Member

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    I haven't played TS Classic since before CSX Heavy Haul. TSW is a big leap for graphical fidelity, and being able to move around the cab does allow for a lot of cool stuff (exploring the center corridor on the ACS-64, or going down the side of some of the German locos to set the pantograph and safety systems, for example). I wish there was a little more consistency in the level of detail in vehicles and functions that are replicated in the cabs, but understandably this is limited by the access that the operator will allow to DTG.

    I think a great many of us are very passionate about trains and railroads, otherwise we probably wouldn't be here, and as such, we have very high expectations--some perhaps set by our own hype and desires for the game, some perhaps set at the feet of DTG's early marketing it as the evolution of train simulation (with an unlocked editor and unprecedented attention to detail). Naturally, when high expectations aren't met, there's some disappointment. Some of that has been unacceptably converted into name-calling and being rude to the community moderators and staff of DTG.

    There's a lot of good about TSW2. There are a lot of rough spots, too: missing features that are noticeably absent or that haven't been handled well (passenger information and announcements, general lack of ambience on the Bakerloo line in particular, and disappointing sound). And, somehow, nobody thought that a hotkey for keyboards to open doors was a necessity, but was important enough to make it a feature in the controller mapping? Passengers are a mess.

    But the graphics? No complaints there. Interactive elements? No complaints, for the most part: important buttons and switches and dials all work as they should. SKA, in particular, deserves praise--sure, there are some weird routing paths, but it's a step up in quality from many of the TSW2020 routes, and is hopefully an indication of DTG's continued desire to improve in route-building. And nailing PZB and LZB really makes it feel like I'm actually operating a train instead of just pushing buttons like it felt to me in TS Classic.

    So maybe some of our feedback and criticism could be more constructive. People need to stop disrespecting DTG staff, that behavior is truly unacceptable. But I don't think most people posting critiques and complaints do so out of malice; I think we do it because we want to see this product built up to and running at its full potential.
     
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  15. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    I feel
    I feel the same way. I like TSW, I just can’t enjoy it in its current state. I want this game to be a good, realistic simulator. I just don’t like the way they’re handling the community, and the bugs/glitches. If they start to fix/make things better after they’re done with the Preserved Collection rollout, I’ll come back to the game. If they don’t, I’ll still play it, but not frequently (like what I’m doing now)

    Sorry of this comment looks weird, it’s a hassle to take away the first quote. [I did it for you - Protagonist]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2020
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  16. Trainmania100

    Trainmania100 Well-Known Member

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    I'm happy with TSW2, played nearly every day since it came out
     
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  17. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    I love this game and play it every day.
     
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  18. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Dovetail Special Projects Staff Member

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    There are a lot of happy players. In fact, the majority of those making criticisms of the game genuinely like it - that's why we encourage discussions that are critical of the game.

    The reason for those criticisms is because they can see how good it could be, but it continues to fall short of what they would really love. That is not players being negative, that's a passion for the subject matter.
     
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  19. Alexandra

    Alexandra Active Member

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    I imagine a lot of people are asking themselves the same question that began this thread -- is this program worth buying?

    It is indeed worth buying. Like many other people I enjoy TSW2 very much, thank you. Driving only German routes and with a very good computer, I've driven well over 100 services and enjoyed it all. In the past I'd tried both trucks and buses -- for me at least, neither can hold a candle to driving trains and while I loved TS and TSW, TSW2 has truly captured my imagination and that of many others as well.

    There are lots of things that could be done differently and of course, quirks and niggles show up now and again. But all in all I've found TSW2 to be quite playable and a lot of fun. There's some great information sharing in these forums and I've learned a lot coming here. People here also identify both needs and desires and in my view, constructive criticism and suggestions have resulted in change and a better in-game experience.

    However, I feel compelled to add that in my view, DTG and various actors at DTG have been characterized based on inferentially derived assumptions about their motivations or actions in a manner that seems to me singularly inappropriate.
     
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  20. michael hooley

    michael hooley Well-Known Member

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    I love the sim, my gripe as I have said many times before is bloody camera 2, jumping all over the place when you pass a linside object or under a bridge.

    Camera 2 in TS2020 is perfect and the one I use most.

    Mike
     
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  21. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest

    How happy I am.
    You see, it is not very complicated to express your desires and your choices without wanting to "kill" the staff of DTG.
    The world is sometimes cruel and I think the forums reflect the world today.
    But I feel better now for the whole DTG team, I'm sure that all of your messages will cheer them up.

    Too much negativity harms the trail of developers, I'm sure, let's show them that we love their work.

    Thanks again to all for your very encouraging messages.

    Long live TSW2 as long as TS can live on.
    Thanks to DTG for giving us such a great train game. (even if you have to pay for it).

    Have a lovely day everybody
     
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  22. 59321747

    59321747 Active Member

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    I like trains, but my favorite production concept is to develop with reality in the game. Although they have been pursuing perfection, I hope they can maintain this enthusiasm.

    I also hope that they can create more American routes, and the closer I am to the real experience is what I am pursuing
     
  23. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    The wheel rotation still scares me but I love turning the ice opaque glass on. Horses for courses
     
  24. Trainmania100

    Trainmania100 Well-Known Member

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    i love how the wheels slip on the SD40 when starting off, you can see them actually struggling
     
  25. 59321747

    59321747 Active Member

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    I'm glad the game can be more realistic simulation, for the sake of reality, I can happily pay the price.

    I can't wait to see a second freight route to the United States
     
  26. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I think most are happy, there are many more people using it than posting on here. I am sure we all have a list of things we would like to see improved, fixed or added. My overall experience is positive.
     
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  27. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    I'm really happy that you guys see it this way as well. I mean I like to bash the game and the company from time to time, but other times I'm worried that the too much negativity might have a bad impact on the dedication and passion of the dev team. But the developers themselves always seem passionate about the projects, even if they often fall short and have problems.

    But even though I like to complain a lot, I still wish the best of luck for the team to be able to make TSW live up to it's potential.
     
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  28. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    I absolutely love TSW 2.

    I am critical of it, but only because there is room for improvement and because it’s not as good as it could be.

    Despite its flaws it’s my favourite game and I’m so glad I discovered it. I’m really looking forward to how it grows in the coming months and years.
     
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  29. Easilyconfused

    Easilyconfused Active Member

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    You raise a good point here.

    My employer (like DTG) has instituted working from home due to the current pandemic. We have regular teams meetings with senior management in the UK and at corporate in the USA. One of the key themes the management hammer home every meeting is taking care of your mental health especially if you are working and living alone but also if you are in a family setting where everyone is isolating so have no real contact with the outside world. Humans are social animals and the lockdowns and restrictions place great mental stress on people.

    I really do hope that some of the developers I know stay well away from these forums given the vitriol poured out on a daily basis with people posting that the QA team should be fired etc. The Community Managers to an extent are paid to wade through the posts but developers and artists would be well advised to stay clear. If something needs their attention then their management will make sure of that.
     
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  30. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    I love TSW2. There are many areas that it could improve in, and these forums are proof of it. Despite these short comings, I really enjoy the game. I play it every chance I get (with the occasional break to play TS2021). I hope that the game can continue to be developed for years to come, and only getting better!
     
  31. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    I also really do like TSW and TSW2, even if it may seem like otherwise most of the time.

    The biggest issue I have is that sometimes the immersion breakers are just too much for me, to the point I lose interest in playing. As DTGs track record is of the release and abandon approach, it makes me somewhat cynical of it anything will be resolved. I genuinely hope that this isn't the case going forwards, and then I can spend more time enjoying the game and less time being frustrated by it...
     
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  32. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Amazon Prime has really raised the stakes with next day delivery.
    Doubt Dtg can rise to the challenge:)
    We forget how working from home makes everything so much harder.

    I feel they are making the right choice putting preserved before bug fixing.
    The great strength of Ts was it’s sheer variety.
    When we encounter a bug we can at least switch to another route or scenario.

    Also the new “transparency” is working and very welcome.
    Definitely moving in the right direction.
     
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  33. mike370

    mike370 Active Member

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    Many thanks for that statement Sam, you've nailed it! And reassuring to hear your own take. Even if you're one of the poor sods that ends up regularly have to take one for the team, so to speak. I think most of us here realise the Community Manager & his team, at times, have a most uneviable job as go between players/company developers/company management. Your own team's efforts are though much appreciated, even if it doesn't necessarily always seem that way.

    But yes, I do sincerely believe most (can never win them all!) members here are simply wanting the very best for TS2021 & TSW2 - and keen, passionate at times, to see both platforms grow as best they possibly can. It of course gets a little tricky on occasion, when the loyal fan base know DTG can do significantly better (your development team regularly show they can play great 'ball' when they choose, but somwhat prone to the odd momementary lapse & awkward fumble). We're the loyal suporters cheering you on, all in our own unique special way! ;) It would be pretty dull (& in its own way not terribly constructive) if everyone agreed with everything all the time i.e. sometimes requires a bit of healthy debate to get the best end result. Cheers.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
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  34. ASRGT

    ASRGT Well-Known Member

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    Honestly i wont speak for others but the reason I am on here and so critical of features or lack of some... real time weather GRRRRRR ! :D is because of my passion for the game, so don't mistake criticism from members as though they hate the game.

    This is a unique title, I own other "train games" and they simply don't offer the level of immersion TSW/2 does and that's what I am after, feedback and critique about what's lacking ect is not something I would waste my time offering or forming strong opinions on if I simply disliked the game.
     
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  35. ProfCreeptonius

    ProfCreeptonius Well-Known Member

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    Hi everyone,

    let me use this opportunity to set the record straight with y'all and foremost with the devs, since I wasn't shy to critique them heavily. While I do not think I was deemed a "hater" many of my posts did have critical content, and I want DTG to understand my point of view on the matter.

    Why trains?
    Trains have always fascinated me. The innate simplicity of trains being vehicles moving in just one dimension, together with the unique difficulty of managing extremely long braking distances, to me, forms this medium between an overly-complex vehicle, eg. planes, and an overly-simple vehicle, eg. cars. Trains are the birthplace of many seemingly simple yet very theoretical and abstract mathematical optimization problems, which to me, a mathematician also, are extremely attractive and interesting. Simply put, every driver is always optimizing the brake/throttle application to balance timeliness, energy consumption, passenger comfort, safety... etc.

    On the flipside, to me, trains do offer a certain aesthetic pleasure. Sightseeing whilst driving at high speeds, the sensation of speed low to the ground, powerful sounds and a generally aesthetically pleasing look of the trains and the machinery intrigue me. It is this wonderful harmonic balance of artistry and mathematics that has drawn me to trains, and I must say, even though my critical posts don't confirm it, I was truly blessed that DTG existed to create TSXX, TSW and now TSW2. DTG have done a stellar job, which is why I invested into this game so much: yet wherever light shines, shadow falls.

    The source of my critique
    When the aforementioned harmonic balance is disturbed in my eyes, I see "the thing" I love about trains drifting away from me. When the sound of a train is off (cf. preserved collection wave 3) the aesthetics of the train are ruined. When the game is too ugly (like certain other train simulators), the aesthetics are again ruined. When the physics are incorrect (cf. cab shake on MSB) or the train cannot achieve it's max speeds (cf. preserved collection wave 3), or the safety systems work incorrectly (cf. RT on release) the optimization problems and the mathematics are screwed. My critique always aims to re-establish this harmonic balance, which, to me, is the fundament of train simulation. I also am particularly disappointed when DTG rejects to work towards establishing the said balance (was it really so hard to fix PZB on RT?).

    Why and to what I aspire
    These things, and there were many of them, have impacted my enjoyment of driving trains. Satisfaction is a naïve feeling; I will never be satisfied, nor should DTG be. Aspiration must persevere - we've done a good job, let's do it even better. The preserved collection wave 3 was, bluntly said, trash, since it violated this balance in the most brutal way possible, both getting the aesthetics and mathematics wrong. Rapid transit's PZB formerly violated the maths-side of RT, combined with the relatively empty and deserted feeling of RT it broke the balance, again. Always, when this balance is broken, or could use strengthening, I will bring forth my critique, with no mercy nor remorse. After all this is what I love about the game, and I'm certain that many of you do too.

    Resorting to Modding
    I often resort to modding the game myself, since I want to strengthen this balance alone. I also like to create challenges for other players to enjoy trains themselves, hence why I love creating scenarios. I was very happy to see the livery designer and scenario planner as additions to TSW 2, since I got to work on both sides of the balance: The optimization challenge and the aesthetics. Thanks to efforts from the community, we're able to share both scenarios and liveries, and I'm very pleased with that and congratulate from the bottom of my heart everyone out there working on these things.

    It is thus natural that when my options to modify the game are reduced by DTG (eg. TSW2020 lacking scenario designer), I am very disappointed. I do not get to work on what I love most. Also mistakes or annoying limitations in the scenario designer reduce my enjoyment of the game by a considerable amount, which gives rise to many of my "complaints".

    Concluding words
    Praising TSW2 over and over is superfluous, it is obvious that DTG are producing a simulator which is beyond it's time. I don't need to repeat this over and over, I need to help make it become better and more enjoyable, at least for me. I can never give myself or DTG the feeling of "this is good enough", since it's not good enough. Not even reality is good enough. New safety systems are being developed as we speak. The only "good enough" system is the isomorphism class of trivial one: A circular track with equidistant halts and a train between every two stations, periodically rotating, like a clock with 12 hands, the orbit under the action of the cyclic group - yet where's the fun in that? (Math nerd overflow moment, disregard the last two sentences)

    I dislike posts which only criticize with the intent of shaming DTG or elaborating on how DTG is a @#($ company that can't <insert weird complaint here>. Also I don't think that "defending" DTG brings anything new to the table - it maintains the status quo. Consequently you will see, from me, both critique towards DTG with the goal of development and offers to you, fellow friends, on how you could enjoy TSW2020, TSW and TSXX even more.

    Cheers,
    Prof.
     
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  36. johnjohn190690

    johnjohn190690 Active Member

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    I've been playing TSxx now for four years and never jumped on board with TSW but with TSW2 I am here and finding myself playing more TSW2 than TSxx. I don't use these forums too much I lurk about I do see negative comments but I feel the game overall is a success I think people's issues are preserved collection. I only use German routes atm haven't touched Bakerloo Line at all, Köln-Aachen is my go to route. I will be investing more time and money into DLC for TSW2 than TSxx tbh road map helps so much and was nice to see DTG take this route it opened them up more to us customers. Would I do a TSxx uninstall not yet but I do feel it coming tbh just need more content for TSW2 and seeing München-Augsburg tonight on stream and how it looked was amazing so for me the future is bright for TSW2 thank you DTG.
     
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  37. GothicMatt

    GothicMatt Active Member

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    I've very happy with TSW 2 i love all the routes that are on it including the preserved routes I've just been playing the IOW route and im loving the way it looks and the train is easy to drive
     
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