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South Devon Main Line: Exeter St Davids - Plymouth & Paignton (gwr Class 802 & Class 158)

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by jolojonasgames, Jun 9, 2021.

?
  1. Yes

    34 vote(s)
    79.1%
  2. Only if it's set in a different era (like the FGW era, Diesel era, etc., please specify below)

    1 vote(s)
    2.3%
  3. Maybe if it's on sale

    4 vote(s)
    9.3%
  4. No

    4 vote(s)
    9.3%
  1. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Hi all, today I'm making my first British suggestion. I'm suggesting the South Devon Main Line between Exeter St Davids and Plymouth, with a branch along the Riviera line to Paignton.

    Contents
    • The Route
      • General description
      • Cab ride
      • Services
    • The rolling stock
      • What comes with the route as standard?
        • GWR Class 800 IET
        • GWR Class 158 Express Sprinter
      • What could be DLC?
        • GWR Class 150/2 Sprinter
        • GWR Class 143 Pacer
        • Cross Country Class 221 Super Voyager
        • Freightliner (or Colas Rail) Class 70
      • Layers
    • Final Words
    • Pictures

    [​IMG]

    A GWR Class 802 IET on the Dawlish Sea Wall featured on this route.

    The Route
    [​IMG]


    General description
    The route runs from Exeter St Davids to Plymouth, with the Riviera line that diverges south just after Newton Abbot being included. This gives the line a total length of 93 km (58 miles), with the section between Paignton and the junction south of Newton Abbot making up 10 km (6 miles) of that total. The line is very scenic in nature, running along the mouth of the river Exe and the coast, including the Dawlish sea wall, on the first half of the route. After Newton Abbot, the main section of the line turns back inland, crossing steep gradients with bridges, viaducts and tunnels in the Devon countryside before reaching Plymouth (this section can be seen well in the 1st and 3rd cab rides). The Riviera line Branch to Paignton runs back to the coast, before terminating in the seaside town of Paignton (only a museum railway serves the southern section of the Riviera line beyond Paignton nowadays). The line is home to many well known railway photography points, and rightfully so due to it's great scenery.

    The top speed of the line is 160 km/h (100 mph), although many sections are restricted to 100 km/h (60 mph) or 110 km/h (70 mph). The line is continuously double tracked, with the section between Newton Abbot South Junction and the point at which the lines diverge being 4 tracked.

    At Plymouth Laira Depot, a large yard for storing and maintaining passenger rolling stock is featured, and at Exeter St Davids a smaller one is also present. Toghether these two yards will allow for depot runs. There are also a few industrial connections and freight sidings along the route, allowing for freight gameplay.

    The route will be set in 2019 (or around that time), when the IET was just entering service, and the Class 43 'Castle' sets were still operating part of the Intercity services (so these can be layered in from GWE). In addition to that, at the time Class 143 pacers still operated stopping services, allowing them to be DLC.

    Cab Ride

    This cab ride takes us from Plymouth to Exeter (and beyond), and is taken at the time I'm proposing the route to be set in, with the HST's on their way out, and shortened Castle sets coming onto local services, while the Pacers are still in full operation.


    This cab ride takes us from Paignton to Exeter.


    This cab ride takes us from Plymouth to Newton Abbot.

    Services
    As people are used from me in my continental suggestions, a list of services will be included to give an indication of what gameplay will be like in timetable mode. Freight services are not included in this list, but will of course be present in game.

    Intercity (GWR)
    (from London via Tiverton Parkway) – Exeter St Davids – Newton Abbot – Totnes – Plymouth (start/end point)
    1 train per 2 hours
    rolling stock: GWR Class 802 IET, GWR Class 43 'Castle' sets

    Intercity (GWR)

    (from London via Tiverton Parkway) – Exeter St Davids – Newton Abbot – Totnes – Plymouth (Onwards to Penzance via Liskeard)
    1 train per 2 hours
    rolling stock: GWR Class 802 IET, GWR Class 43 'Castle' sets

    Intercity (Cross Country)
    Plymouth (start/end point) – Totnes – Newton Abbot – Exeter St Davids –
    (Onwards to Edinburgh Waverly via Tiverton Parkway)
    1 train per hour
    rolling stock: Cross Country Class 221 Super Voyager

    Intercity (Cross Country)
    Paignton (start/end point) – Torquay – Newton Abbot – Teignmouth – Dawlish – Exeter St Davids –
    (onwards to Manchester piccadilly via Tiverton Parkway)
    Two return trips per day are extended from Exeter St davids to Paignton
    rolling stock: Cross Country Class 221 Super Voyager

    Stopping service (GWR)
    Exeter St Davids (start/end point) – Newton Abbot –Totnes –Ivybridge –Plymouth –
    (Onwards to Penzance via Devonport)
    1 train per hour
    rolling stock: GWR Class 158, GWR Class 225 (shortened class 43 'Castle' sets)

    Stopping service (GWR)
    (From Exmouth via Exeter Central) – Exeter St Davids – Exeter St Thomas – Starcross – Dawlish Warren – Dawlish – Teignmouth – Newton Abbot – Torre – Torquay – Paignton (start/end point)
    2 trains per hour
    rolling stock: GWR Class 150/2, GWR Class 166


    In addition to these services, there will also be depot moves, railtours and possibily empty runs from Plymouth Laira Depot to Exeter (with for example two Class 43 power cars coupled togeter without coaches). To liven up Exeter St Davids, the services that terminate there could also be added (one Cross Country Intercity every 2 hours (Class 221) and another GWR Intercity every 2 hours (Class 43/Class 802)) standing around in platforms.

    Rolling stock

    What comes with the route as standard?

    GWR Class 802 IET
    [​IMG]


    The class 802 Intercity Express Train (IET) operated by GWR is a bi-mode multiple unit, which first entered service in 2018. It was built by Hitachi rail and have a top speed of 125 mph (200 km/h). It forms the new backbone of GWR's long distance services, including those on this line. Even though it can operate both under overhead electric wires and with diesel generators, it will operate only with diesel generators on this line due to the absence of electrification on this line. In may 2019 it replaced all remaining class 43 'Castle' sets. More info on wikipedia.

    GWR Class 158 Express Sprinter
    [​IMG]

    The Class 158 is a DMU built by BREL for British Rail between 1989 and 1992. GWR operates both 2-car 158's, three car 185's and hybrid 3 car sets, that consist of a two car set, with an additional driving coach coupled to one end (as pictured above). I suggest that both the two car sets and the hybrid 3 car sets are included, as the two car sets can 'simply' be modelled by removing the middle driving coach from the hybrid 3 car sets. The class 158 has a top speed of 90 mph (145 km/h). On this route it operates the Exeter - Plymouth - Penzance stopping services. More info on wikipedia.

    What could be DLC?

    GWR Class 150/2 Sprinter[​IMG]

    GWR also operates the Class 150/2 Sprinters on the Paignton - Exeter St Davids - Exmouth stopping services. This DMU was built by BREL York between 1984 and 1987 for British Railways. The Sprinters consist of two powered coaches, with a maximum speed of 75 mph (120 km/h). More info on wikipedia.

    GWR Class 143 Pacer
    [​IMG]

    Until 2020 GWR still operated class 143 pacers on the Paignton - Exeter St Davids - Exmouth stopping services. These DMU's were developed as a cheap replacement for many older 'heritage' DMUs operated by British Rail, and utilised many bus parts. They consist of two coupled two-axle coaches and have a top speed of 75 mph (120 km/h). Due to the axles being mounted directly to the coach (instead of conventional 2-axle bogies), the ride is quite rough and the pacers generate a lot of flange squeel in corners. More info on wikipedia.

    Cross Country Class 221 Super Voyager
    [​IMG]

    The class 221 is a tilting DMU operated by Cross Country on many of it's long distance services, among which the once to Plymouth and Paignton. The 221 is largely similar to the class 220 voyager also operated by Cross Country (which could also be added instead of the 221), but differs in the bogie design. The 221 was built by Bombardier in 2001 and 2002, and has a top speed of 125 mph (200 km/h). The Class 221 has a tilting ability, that allows it to tilt by 6 degrees in corners to increase passenger comfort at high speeds. Most of the sets operated by Cross Country consist of 5 cars. More info on wikipedia.

    Freightliner (or Colas Rail) Class 70
    [​IMG]


    The class 70 is among the more modern freight locomotives on British rails, being built between 2008 and 2017 by General Electric. The class 70 has six axles in a Co-Co configuration, and a top speed of 75 mph (120 km/h). Both Freightliner and Colas rail operate the Class 70, and both these operators would be great to see in game. This loco add-on could add additional freight services on top of the ones already created by layering in the Class 66. More info on wikipedia.

    [​IMG]

    Layers

    Passenger

    • GWR Class 43: Full length on the Intercity services. Shortened to 4 coaches on stopping services (in real life these shortened 43's have been modified with sliding doors an PIS, but as a layer these differences can probably be overlooked).
    • GWR Class 166: On the Paignton - Exeter St Davids - Exmouth services.
    • Class 20, 31, 33, 37, 40, 45, 47, 52: Operating Railtour services
    Freight
    • Class 66 (DB and EWS): Operating freight services.


    Final words
    I think this very scenic route could be a great addition to TSW, finally providing a route for the Class 802, aswell as allowing layers from GWE, and many interesting DLC options such as the Super Voyagers and often requested Pacers. As I mentioned at the start, this is my first British suggestion, so I might have gotten a few things wrong, if so, I'd like to hear it so I can correct it. I look forward to hearing your thoughts about this route suggestion :).

    Pictures

    [​IMG]

    A GWR Pacer on the Dawlish Sea Wall

    [​IMG]
    A class 220 on a curve at Langstone Rock near Dawlish

    [​IMG]
    A Castle set at Exeter St Davids

    [​IMG]
    A class 158 heads along the Dawlish Sea Wall

    [​IMG]
    A Class 43 Castle set on the Dawlish Sea Wall

    [​IMG]
    A class 802 on the Dawlish Sea Wall

    [​IMG]
    A Colas Rail Class 70 on the Dawlish Sea Wall

    [​IMG]
    An EWS Class 66 near Cockwood

    [​IMG]
    A GWR Class 143 coupled to a Class 150 between Dawlish Warren and Cockwood

    [​IMG]
    A Colas Rail Class 70 on the Batchford viaduct

    [​IMG]
    Laira Depot near Plymouth, where Class 43 Castle sets are stored and maintained.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021
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  2. isaac47593

    isaac47593 Well-Known Member

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    This would be awesome. The 802 and 158 would be great and they would make the British multiple unit collection feel much more complete
     
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  3. creeperblox2710

    creeperblox2710 Well-Known Member

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    Just wait for the people to say that the Class 802 could layer onto GWE.
     
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  4. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    The way it's going to work for Great Western Express is Class 802 inbound to London Paddington electric mode at Hayes and Harlington from diesel mode. Outbound services from London Paddington is Electric mode end at Hayes and Harlington start diesel engine at that location. Basically the British version of LGV Mediterranean Line Avignon-Marsellie where you change voltages on the move. Provided DTG makes 25kv 50hz wires London Paddington to Hayes in Harlington live
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2021
  5. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Excellent idea indeed and for the Class 143 Pacer it must have a 1989 paint available making it the only present day train to layer for Tees Valley Line. Because back in the mid-1980s Pacers were ordered to replace the Ageing class 101 DMUs therefore this route and West Cornwall Local should solve the issue of class 143 on TVL.
     
  6. Alex_m30x#7297

    Alex_m30x#7297 Well-Known Member

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    OMG
    1. I WANT NOW i think it would be great
    2. That is i think the most comprehensive suggestion, ever. Well done and keep it up
     
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  7. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that probably won't happen :). If people really want to there's scenario editor though.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2021
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  8. Ravi

    Ravi Active Member

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    Nice route. If this happens I will be very happy. If they can get the water hitting on the wall and spilling into tracks right, it will be great.
     
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  9. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    DTG has already said they're not going to do that.
     
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  10. 43050

    43050 Active Member

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    I voted yes for the whole route, as much as I’d rather have the HST if it came with a random layer of class 800/802 to HST that would be great. Even better if they implement “the mask” and trainbow colours - or even unit names just like they have with Southeastern High Speed and Arosa Linie
     
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  11. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Would they have even bothered running on electric power between Paddington and Hayes anyway? I wouldn't have thought so.
     
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  12. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    That means the Class 802 must run on diesel power for the entire section reading to Paddington Station adding 10-20 minutes to the trip then at Reading Station determinate there or if linked with this route Great Western Main Line will load the time of the Class 802 arrival at Exeter from Reading Station. Inbound trips load the arrival of class 802 at Reading from Exeter
     
  13. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but that still will only happen in scenario editer, and not in the timetable, as GWE is set 2016-ish, before the introduction of the Class 800 and 802 IET's, so DTG won't do that themselves.

    And before anyone argues that the time GWE is set in hasn't stopped them from releasing DLGW, DTG has already explicitely stated the class 800 and/or 802 would never come to GWE as a playable train in timetable mode, only using scenario editor.
     
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  14. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    YES YES YES. Get this thing built - amazing route and rolling stock. Scrub the 802. HST, 150 & 158 will work better
     
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  15. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Firstly, you should really stop saying things like "the way it's going to work", it's quite assertive and really just like your acting like your calling the shots.
    Secondly, they have said numerous times that the IETs will not appear on GWE.

    "It must have a 1989 paint" No, it doesn't have to, it could, but it doesn't have to.
    Also the TVL pacer isn't an "issue". I've hardly seen anyone bring it up (outwith yourself) and it's unlikely they'd go back and do it now.

    As for the main suggestion, great suggestion as always jolojonasgames and I'd love to see this in game. Especially with the Riviera included.
     
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  16. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    The main reason I chose to include the 802 as standard is that it is often requested for GWE (where it will never come), and the HST fans will already own GWE, thus allowing the HST to layer in from the get go.

    Totally agree that besides an express unit (802 or HST), both the 150 and 158 would be needed to really make the route come alive.

    However, as long as it comes woth somewhat reasonable rolling stock, I definetely wouldn't mind having this route with other rolling stock than I suggested.
     
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  17. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes. I see your reasoning for the 802. Good idea.

    I agree. One sprinter would be nice. Two would be perfect. Let’s live in hope.
     
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  18. fabdiva

    fabdiva Well-Known Member

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    Maybe do some power door Mk3s so you can use the GWE power cars with the rebuilt Mk3s on regionals?
     
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  19. fabdiva

    fabdiva Well-Known Member

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    It adds about 2 mins for an 800 to be on Diesel - They'd switch to high performance mapping rather then the default low power 100mph mode - still can't match AC acceleration but are still much faster then the old HSTs - 802s run in high performance all the time.

    Similarly if an 800 finds itself west of Newbury it will automatically switch to high performance so as to match an 802 - the entire GWR fleet has long range fuel tanks so an 800 can get to Penzance and back. The only physical difference between a GWR 800 and 802 is the 802 has resistor banks on the roof for dynamic braking over the steep inclines in Devon and Cornwall.

    LNER 800s have short range tanks and will normally only run in low power mode on diesel.

    Thinking, the location and context based power mapping on the 80x engines would be a nightmare to simulate, fine on one route with markers, but how to apply it to other routes
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
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  20. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    That's actually really well thought through.
    Means Dovetail will provide another train and the HST can just layer. Good move.
     
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  21. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Well explained answer and for the 2 minutes timer you mentioned is it for going into diesel mode from electric and also diesel mode to electric mode? Must be kept in mind for players that have this route and Great Western Mainline London Paddington to Reading Station if they are using Class 802 in Scenario Planner.
     
  22. fabdiva

    fabdiva Well-Known Member

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    Changeover is on the move (there may be a limit of 100mph when raising the pan but I'm not 100% on that) - IIRC the driver sets engine pre-heat a few mins in advance then the actual change is automatic by track beacons. Change can be done without pre-heat but it extends the service intervals :)

    The 2 mins is because in Diesel they are slower to accelerate - they are no slouch on diesel but electric is faster still.
     
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  23. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    As you said yourself previously, it would be in diesel mode the entire time.
    The OHLE isn't simulated and therefore can't be used.
    And again, it would be scenario planner, because they have said the 80x won't appear on GWE for that reason.
     
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  24. brfan#9132

    brfan#9132 Active Member

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    I just think it will be better if it starts at Bristol not Exeter
     
  25. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    That would make the route nearly three times as long. While I'd love to see long routes myself too, there simply is a limit to what currently seems realistic. No route in TSW is longer than 70 miles (the upcoming 65 mile long Riesa - Dresden route being the longest), so I don't think we'll be seeing a ~180 mile route any time soon, thus I decided to suggest just Exeter - Plymouth.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2021
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  26. brfan#9132

    brfan#9132 Active Member

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    But I would like to see my local station on the GWR mainline
     
  27. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    I hope this doesn't sound a bit rude but-
    It's not all about what one person wants.
    It's their suggestions so it's their choice.
     
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  28. gjbarnard

    gjbarnard New Member

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    Last edited: Jun 19, 2021
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