Southeastern High Speed - Worth Getting Now After The Patch?

Discussion in 'PlayStation Discussion' started by Cottonmouth, Feb 17, 2021.

  1. Cottonmouth

    Cottonmouth Active Member

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    Hi Guys,
    Not what sort of response I'm going to get on this matter, but here goes. I have been keeping a close eye on the various posts on the SEHS when it first came out and the amount of poor reviews it had regarding sounds, graphics etc etc. I would love to get this especially after reading some of now positive posts after the latest update. OK I'm not one who goes looking for faults I just want to get in and enjoy a drive.
    So the question I would like to ask is this now worth getting? One thing I'm looking forward to and what will push me in getting is the upcoming soon release of the Class 465 loco.
     
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  2. xblackwolf90

    xblackwolf90 Well-Known Member

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    Pre patch, my advice was to make your own decision if you can live with the bugs and poor 395 audio.

    Now, I would say yes it's well worth getting. It's by no means perfect and some issues persist, but it's a damn sight better. Audio in the cab is now perfectly fine to my ears and the route is very enjoyable to drive. The poor 395 audio was the main immersion breaker for me previously.

    Scenery isn't DTGs best work but from the cab at least it's perfectly acceptable in my opinion. If you take the outside camera and start poking around you'll find issues, but in daily game play I haven't come across anything which would cause me to not recommend the route.

    In summary, yes I would personally recommend getting the route of you like passenger services and UK routes in general.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
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  3. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    It's much better than it was with sounds but there are still some issues with lighting in the tunnels and a couple of erroneous TPWS activations. The extra freight services added with the 66 are a good addition (you need east coast way though), as are the railtours with locos from other DLCs (Tees Valley adds the 37 and Northern Trans-Pennine along with the heavy freight pack add the 47s, 45s etc) .

    Personally, I enjoy the route and did before the patch because it's not all high speed and it's not all regional commuter stuff, it's a mix of both.
     
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  4. Cottonmouth

    Cottonmouth Active Member

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    Hi, Thanks for that, I mainly drive UK routs and have the ECW along with the full pack of the NTP. Just one point Nick Y you mention the lighting in the Tunnels but surely that's a problem I think on all the routes, especially on the NTP where you have some extremely long tunnels with all your front lights on and nothing showing in front of the engine.
     
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  5. xblackwolf90

    xblackwolf90 Well-Known Member

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    The issue on this route is that the cab lights up very brightly when entering some tunnels, as if there is a flood light in the cab with you.

    Most of these instances have been fixed, but there are still instances where this occurs.

    I did a run earlier. This link takes you straight to the part of the video where the cab suddenly lights up even though you're still in the tunnel: https://www.twitch.tv/xblackwolf90/v/917563498?sr=a&t=3914s

    This happens at various points in tunnels throughout the route. Not the end of the world but a bug none the less. It wouldn't stop me recommending the route.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2021
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  6. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    The lighting in the tunnels on SEHS is weird. You get flashes of random light and bright light fills the cab at certain points. They are still working on it though.

    As for train headlights not showing in tunnels, they aren't designed to. Train headlights are so you can be seen and not to light the way like car headlights.

    I'm the same when it comes to UK routes because I actually know the rolling stock and locos.
    I've created my own timetables on NTP and TVL but had to substitute diesel passenger units with the 375 and 377 on those routes when using custom liveries (I'm hoping they'll add the 166 compatibility to the livery editor soon).
     
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  7. CaptainSwing

    CaptainSwing New Member

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    I got it from day dot. Well worth the money.
     
  8. Tynmar

    Tynmar Well-Known Member

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    I’d say take the plunge, it’s massively improved as other day about. Oddly I’m driving the 375 more than the 395??

    not sure if the excitement I had for the 395 died with all the tunnels and not much speed in daylight.

    The 375 it’s a decent ride and the scenery in Kent is enjoyable too.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2021
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  9. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I think you will like the route. As with most routes, the odd thing will irk but as a driving experience it is a good one. There’s plenty to do and I’m enjoying it a lot now the cab sounds on the 395 have been changed and the tunnels are better. I’m even enjoying driving the Class 66 on it, which is a first because I’ve never liked it (The DTG 66 not the real one), and there are the railtours as well. I’m even considering getting the 465 to add to the feel of the route.
     
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  10. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    It's still a bit of a difficult question to answer because in truth, there's still some divide between people who enjoy the route and those who don't. I'm one of those folk who lives somewhere in between, even with the most recent patch.
    Undeniably, it has brought SEHS up to a better condition than it was recently, especially with the redone Javelin cab audio and the addition of freight services. It feels fun to drive trains up and down the CML and HS1, and the route certainly feels alive with all the traffic! It can get pretty interesting during rush hour, and it's not that uncommon to run into red signals.
    If what you wanted is a busy commuter line with a mix of services, then you can't go wrong with SEHS!

    However with all that being said, this route is still plagued by plenty of minor inconveniences. It's worth pointing these out, because yes; in isolation these are small little annoyances, but as part of a whole experience they can certainly hold back the route. It's those small compromises that keep this from being as great as HMA or East Coastway.
    Southeastern Highspeed is not really held up to the same quality as those routes, and things can come off as inconsistent. HS1 still feels incomplete with plenty of flat empty land with not much landscaping or really..there's just not much to look at in some areas. The fences that line HS1 are still dorky as hell, as they are far too tall and they're not see-through at all, blocking out much of the Dagenham area from the cab and passenger views (there's quite a lot to see there too, often requiring you to maneuver an external camera to see much of it).
    Scenery popping in is not an uncommon occurrence, and is especially apparent when massive power lines appear out of thin air one by one as you're driving along HS1. The scenery on this route can be very inconsistent at times, further compounding the sentiment that SEHS could have used more development time.

    Over on the PC forums, some users have taken to develop mods that replaces some textures and assets to greatly enhance some of the fine details that frankly this route lacks in. Literally within a single day of release, two people were able to create a fence mod that looks far better than the current implementation. Within. The first. Day.
    I bring this up simply because I feel as though these mods really gives SEHS the love it deserves, and unfortunately we aren't able to do anything about it on the PS4. We have to settle with what DTG has given us.

    And at last, that summarizes what I feel about this route. In order to enjoy SEHS, you kind of have to ignore the minor inconveniences and accept what has been delivered. Its what summarizes much of the routes in TSW; DTG can do amazing things in some areas, but they miss the mark in others, and you'll have to be okay with that. With SEHS, this fact is absolutely front and center. It's something that's constantly in the back of my head as I look out the window and explore the route.

    Its a good route, but I don't think it's amazing.
    If I have to put it on a scale, I'll be happy giving SEHS a 7/10, simply because I feel as though it could greatly benefit from a bit more polish. However, at its core, it is indeed a fun route and there's plenty to explore here. It's just being held back by a few things.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2021
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  11. Cottonmouth

    Cottonmouth Active Member

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    Hi, Many thanks guys for all you feedback, much appreciated.
     
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  12. HappyJose

    HappyJose Member

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    I'm glad you asked this as I had the same query. I had held off purchasing this which is unusual for me as any UK route that comes out I'm usually buying on the day of release but there did seem to be really mixed reviews about this DLC. One thing that other people mentioned previously were issues with the acceleration of the 395 on the DC section I think and difficulties in sticking to the timetable, just wondered if this was still an issue? It can be frustrating driving routes if you feel you can only ever run late.
     
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  13. xblackwolf90

    xblackwolf90 Well-Known Member

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    The timetable is still very tight.

    Matt explained the reason behind this in a stream. The timetable is automatically calculated based off the performance of the train. However, the 395 performs differently depending on if it is on DC 3rd rail over overhead catenary. Unfortunately, the system that calculates the arrival times can't factor two different performance levels in. As such, the timetable has been calculated as a bit of a mix of the two performance levels.

    So, you've got a bit more room for error on the high speed section than you normally would, but less room for error on the 3rd rail section.
     
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  14. kennyjamesscott

    kennyjamesscott Well-Known Member

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    Same as before. It is up to you. It all depends on what are you looking for.
     
  15. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    I was actually surprised when Matt explained the timetabling in TSW. I expected they literally implement the timetable, like copy paste the timings and stations, but that seems to be not the case. They probably just take the time of one station, e.g. St. Pancras, and then simulate the rest - which explains why there always these little differences and odd things you would not expect from a real world timetable. Why it is done in that way, rather then implementing the real timetable, I have no clue, but it seems to be a problematic solution, that becomes "a problem" with a train such as the Class 395 now. And it seems to not consider proceeding trains, such as getting held up at Strood from a 375 seems to be totally unaccounted for.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2021
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  16. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    Err again pardon my ignorance, but the flashes of light...do they come from the ventilation shafts that will be dotted along the tunnels? Would they not produce a shaft of light every now and again?
     
  17. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    A number of reasons, but fundamentally down to practicality.

    The route isn't an exact precise copy of the real thing, it's close but not exact (we can discuss at length why this might be, but I won't here, suffice to say, millimeters, centimeters, all count over a route, so 100% accuracy is not achievable - the point is that it is also unnecessary).

    The train isn't an exact precise copy of the real thing - again, close but not exact, part of which is down to surprisingly little data available on the performance characteristics of the train, sadly not uncommon for newer trains, and the physics on this have been set up based on some basic descriptions we received from those with experience such as "gets to this speed by here, do this brake at this point for stop there" etc etc. Far from ideal, but close.

    Real timetables also have real human beings keeping things moving and flowing during the day, if something happens it can all be tweaked on the fly - the game can't do that.

    There is no "copy paste" of times in to each stopping instruction - that belittles and hides the huge amount of work involved in doing that. There is no magic timetable importer (every country has their own data and it's not always even in a parseable format, and even those that do - don't include the moves that happen "off camera" so it's all partial data at best). For my "big" LIRR timetable, I did manually enter each and every stopping time into every stopping instruction, thousands of them, it was a huge mistake and made the whole thing take a lot longer than it should have, not to mention very sore wrists and eyestrain copying all that stuff. Never again.

    The approach is to set each train's start time as it should be, and then run a simulation, which will make each train do its work throughout the day. If everything ends up where it's supposed to at the end and there haven't been blockages etc then we can stamp in the times automatically recorded and then do a quick visual inspection to see how it fits with the real ones - if it's wildly out we can adjust a performance percentage but we wouldn't generally go in and tune individual station times because there lies madness.

    Getting from "all the instructions are in" to "it all simulates and is shippable" can be about another 30 hours of work - sometimes more, sometimes less, because each set of tweaks requires another 1-2 hour simulation to see how it all flows now, and as you fix one thing, so things later in the day will flow differently. I think Munich only ended up being say another 10-15 simulations to refine the timetable - but Bakerloo's big timetable got to around 150 before we scaled it back (that's 150 simulations at around 90 minutes each, plus work between each - just to put that in perspective).

    Timetable creation is not trivial at all. In the real railways it's one of the more complex problems to solve, a couple of years back a certain UK company gave up trying to come up with a timetable for some of their *real* services and a heritage railway had to step in to keep them operational.

    In my big LIRR timetable where I had all the manually entered timings, once I had all the pathing working correctly, it was still not flowing very well because of various stops being longer than necessary holding up a stack of trains or other things - once I removed all of those, most of the problems vanished and the timetable began to flow much more smoothly. What matters in these things, is not whether the 12:51 arrives at 12:51 exactly, but whether the overall experience is a fair representation, and a fun one.

    In spite how much work this all looks to be - for me, service mode is worth every minute spent on it, and is why I've spent so much time working on it, it's one of my favourite things to work on and is then where I spend almost all my in-game time playing once i've done the scenarios.

    Anyway hope this helps explain the process a little.

    Matt.
     
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  18. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    Thanks a lot for this detailed reply, I appreciate you taking the time for this!!

    And I agree, service mode is indeed the most powerful experience TSW can offer!
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2021
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  19. RailFan97

    RailFan97 Member

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    Thanks for the detailed explanation but is something going to be done to fix this? Many of us play to the schedule and it ruins the experience to be constantly late for driving to the speed limit.
     
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  20. dan5324

    dan5324 Active Member

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    Service mode is by far the most immersive, open world experience we have had in a train simulator to date and I thank DTG for this. The fact you can wander round a station, check out the departure boards for the next train and destination, Ride a train as a passenger, take over a train at another. Hand the train to another driver at the terminus. Have a wander round. Have a break. Drive back or be a passenger on the way back. I love it. And thank you for putting so much effort into it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2021
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  21. ildario77

    ildario77 Well-Known Member

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    Definitely my favourite new route. I have a soft spot for british routes (I love GWE and ECW), but this one has something more. I really like the good mix in services (high speed, commuter lines, rail tours) and after the patch even the freight services became interesting. Graphically, the patch fixed some annoying lighting in tunnels and now everything looks more realistic. The patch also fixed the Class 395 sound. Performances aren't great, especially along the HS1 (some minor stuttering), but nothing really bad (you won't experience the awful freezing you can see in Bakerloo Line). Already completed about 50 services :)
     
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  22. Mr heff

    Mr heff Well-Known Member

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    Definitely, I think the in-cab experience is superb after the sound and lighting patch.
     
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  23. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    Same. Despite its flaws SEHS has really lifted the bar for immersion, especially after the patch. I got on a railtour service from Gravesend and just relaxed as a passenger in 1st class to Faversham, then drove a 375 to Rochester and a 395 on to St Pancras before driving it back to Faversham. It was incredibly immersive being able to travel up and down on a range of different stock. The 465 will make it even better.

    The only thing that slightly makes me sad is the lost potential because as good as it is, it could have been even better with better modelling on the HS1 section as well as player services to Ebbsfleet lower platforms.
     
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