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Speculation: Goodbye Editor?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by Alex656, Jan 2, 2020.

  1. NAYDOG

    NAYDOG Guest

    Half decent aslong as it's not raining, or snowing, or windy. It's also a good experience if you don't want to transport any people cause there might aswell not be any too haha.

    Shall we settle on quarterly decent driving experience? Or would mind numbingly dull suffice?

    Just let me notch 4, full throttle it out of this snow storm.
     
  2. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I never said I didn't want to see an editor, I have said many times that I want to see the editor. I agree that TS1 would be a lot poorer without other developers content. But TSW is different, the way it works with service mode means it is much more immersive, I only used the scenario editor is TS1, I doubt I would need to do that in TSW.

    However I think for many an editor is not important, partly because of service mode, many may be casual gamers who aren't that into trains and many may just be patient and are happy with what they want for now, but of course we all want to see more variety. However, I am happy to wait and not keep going on and on about the editor like an obsession as I believe it is being worked on as I doubt very much they would have recently said they were working on it if they had no intention of releasing it.

    I re-iterate again, I think the subject of the editor is being used as another stick to hit DTG with.

    Anyway this thread is getting very tedious now!
     
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  3. Juxen

    Juxen Well-Known Member

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    I do want to mention that almost all of the development of TS1 over the course of the last several years (since about 2017) and a good chunk of dev before then was thru third-party developers. If there is no editing tool for them, then there's no third-party content. Not only would there be no Workshop content, but many "key" routes and locomotives taken for granted today wouldn't exist in the sim. DTM, Smokebox, VRC, Victory Works, etc. wouldn't be in the sim. And arguably, they're what have kept the sim alive after all these years.
     
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  4. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I think the sidebar of "3rd party creators using the editor keep things alive" isn't quite relevant, because you can license third party creators who can buy their own licenses from UE and avoid the whole "you can edit anything" issue. They're companies, they can be sued
    If the problem is public access then even that can be sidelined by creating scenario editors, allowing people to use substitutes to implement repaints etc
    But as Matt said to me directly in a post last year, they want the editor to do what the editor in TS can do, ie everything

    Sometimes shooting for the moon means crashing, and maybe that's what's happening in this instance
     
  5. 2 routes for TS, one route for TSW and one train addons for TSW announced / released in about ten days.
    DTG's strategy should be clear enough to everyone ...€€€€€€
     
  6. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    That's the same as any company... or person who works...
    No point being altruistic or communicative and then out of business
     
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  7. Well then imagine if a car manufacturer is stubborn not to want to mount on its models an air conditioner or a parking sensor. Of course they are optional which are not strictly necessary, however ...
     
  8. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    From memory there are car companies that don't fit wheels as standard and everything is an optional extra...
    I wouldn't call having the ability to rewrite the guts of the car (which is what the editor would be) the same as your suggestion though
     
  9. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    BREAKING NEWS: Company in trying to make money shocker!
     
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  10. The title of this discussion is: Speculation Goodbye Editor "...:cool:
     
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  11. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    That was five pages ago :)
     
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  12. jetgriff

    jetgriff Active Member

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    my thoughts on subject..

    hop.jpg
     
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  13. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Looks like we will soon be on page six!

    I wonder when it comes out if all the naysayers will be the first on here to say they were wrong, I suspect there will be deathly silence!
     
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  14. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Flippant answer - They'll be too busy editting things to death
     
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  15. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I don't need an all singing, all dancing editor but just one which would give me the ability to run what what I have on the routes I own
    Like swapping the HST on GWR to an engine and stock.
    And a Free Roam would be good - there is a S8 route on Hagen - Wuppertal but you can only go over it on a stopping passenger.

    TSW looks good but the variety is poor
    Yes I have seen those files from the Czech site but they are still limited

    Peter
     
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  16. Or here comes Mr "I know everything".
    I missed you already.:love:
     
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  17. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully not too much :) .

    I don't profess to know everything, I am learning at life as much as the next person, I am too self-deprecating even to approach that level of modesty!
     
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  18. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Active Member

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    And dowetail it is still very quit. Not any info at all. (1,5 year now info on this) I don't counts Matt saying it is live in live stream.
    We must have more info than this.

    Possible thing have happened. Now it is more consoles out than Pc.
    and they have been saying all along that only pc should get it.
    Then they will be irritated if we pc get it and not them. Then it is better that no one gets it.
    or they are now redoing everything and letting the consoles get it too
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2020
  19. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    YOU might not want the editor but I think most others would
     
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  20. So they need to make the decision to offer TSW only on PS4 and Xbox, because as it is structured now, it is useless for PC.
    We cannot depend on the commitment of a computer hacker (in the good sense of the term) of the Czech Republic who has to rack his brains to try to extrapolate what should have been implemented by the developers themselves.
     
  21. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    So you think TSW should only be for PS4 and Xbox?
    Why?
    Can you not use the game on your PC?
     
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  22. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    What can't you do on a PC you can do on a console? Please stop saying this negative nonsens. Of course we want the editor and I think it was a big mistake of DTG to connect the scenario editor so closely to editing other content. What Matt showed is look good.
     
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  23. No nonsense.
    I did not decide i that the PC and the consoles are two different philosophies. It is factual.
    I am for the PC. Console have always been for casual players. With this I don't want to offend anyone.
    In the past I also had a Console.
    I think (at least me) that I understand the difference
     
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  24. PlatChap

    PlatChap Well-Known Member

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    Unpopular opinion time.

    I believe I see what Rosaria is saying and can agree to an extent. If you're seeking to do as true to life simulation as possible, one would likely seek software on the PC platform instead of a console. It's not talking down to consoles and to be fair, the 2 platforms have audiences with different expectations and the games prove that imo.

    ETS2 and ATS are PC only with no console equivalent. iRacing is PC only and any sim-racing games on both platforms have arcade elements. Serious train simulators like Run8 and ZUSI are PC only. Any serious flight sim is going to be exclusively on PC. While not sims I believe the comparison applies .. Planet Coaster/Planet Zoo vs Jurassic World Evolution which are both developed by Frontier and are park building games; are mechanically wildly different. The former (PC exclusive) have in depth systems to really customize your parks, tons of buildings, animals and creations tools while the latter (PC and console) is as bare bones as it can be.

    TSW is the most serious simulator on console imo next to maybe Farming Simulator and that isn't saying a whole lot. I believe they're trying to market one product to two audiences that want different things and it's not working so far. You don't go to console for simulation games. A little off topic but those are just my thoughts on it.
     
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  25. Jeannot41

    Jeannot41 Well-Known Member

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    People on consoles want a train driving game, and people on PC want a simulator.
    Not at all the same clientele.
     
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  26. trinancrat

    trinancrat Member

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    Microsoft Flight Simulator is getting an Xbox port, so if enough resources are thrown at the problem, a console simulator can work.

    Of course, Xbox Flight Simulator is not expected to be mod-able or come with editing tools, unlike its PC counterpart.
     
  27. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Active Member

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    What how can you interpret the text so. (Then they (console people) will be irritated if we (pc people) got it and not them.
    Then it is better that no one gets it.) I mean dovetail maybe think so.
    I really want the editor i have wrote so now in 4 years.
     
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  28. In fact so far (I will be happy to be proved wrong) the DTG line is there for all to see. Dlc, dlc and more dlc. Nothing about it for new features. They managed to take back everything they said, for example about the editor. And they don't talk about it anymore.
    Really of the original types those of Dove Tail.
     
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  29. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Active Member

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    Well there is no such a Scenario editor, its UE4 modded editor only. And to be clear with that... if you would like to have scenario editor what will you need ? Of course some map... and there we go, you need map and you will need for that World Editor (or how you will load the map to select the points where you would like to have some stop points, coupling, uncoupling, etc...?), for scenarios of course you will need add some trains... how you gonna do that without editor for formations ? And how is your scenario gonna work without timetable ? So now you see than you will need more than just scenario editor to make your stuff work so dont blame DTG why they dont release just Scenario Editor as its impossible without the rest anyway.
     
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  30. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Active Member

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    16 March 2017 TSW was released. Now it is 30 April 2020. They sad from beginning that TSW would get a editor and multiplayer later.
    It has now passed 1140 days and yet we have not seen any Editor.
    2018 in the fall we were told that they were doing it. Dec 2018 we got to see a video with Matt.
    They wrote little in spring 2019 about it. But after that just silent.

    What to believe now, But I feel more and more that we will never see it.
    Dovetail have thought new thoughts (not to release it) and dare not admit it. But I really hope I am wrong.

    In Sweden i have notice that some have been waiting for this editor for a long time
    now but given up so many have started with Trainz
    Which seems to have a very good editor. They build amazing routes with it. Better than TS2020
    Even I soon go to Trainz I think. so sorry for a fantastic train simulator TSW.

    But without the editor it is just a half Train simulator.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2020
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  31. malikrthr

    malikrthr Well-Known Member

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    It is crazy, Trainz has a superb editor that is amazing. I came from Trainz before I started playing Train Simulator/TSW and have built prototypical routes and DEMs in Trainz for years. I really do hope that an editor for TSW will come soon. I like Trainz, OpenBVE, Tran Simulator and Train Sim World. If we get an editor for TSW, I hope it is similar to Trainz.
     
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  32. PlatChap

    PlatChap Well-Known Member

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    I've considered moving to Trainz for a little bit but I heard mixed things about it and I wasn't too impressed by what I could find on Youtube to break through the price of purchasing it. I admit that their editor did seem intuitive and well .. existent.

    I haven't been holding my breath for a TSW editor for a few years and it's solely my opinion that DTG's desire for complete parity between their console and PC versions has completely put any plans for an editor on permanent hiatus. One of the only ways I see it working is if DTG distributes other people's creations made with the editor from within the game itself similar to how Farming Simulator 2019 does it. That'll surely impact their sales if the distribution of routes and rolling stock is permitted soooo .. don't see that happening anytime soon.

    I suppose it's all a moot point anyways seeing as there is no editor on the horizon anyways.
     
  33. Ok it's a real possibility. It is also their right.
    But to be fair, they have to admit it.
    That's all.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 30, 2020
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  34. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I’ve got a gut feeling they’ll quietly cancel the public editor, as subtle as they possibly can.

    Months, now going into years have passed of no news/nothing to share which doesn’t sound promising at all.

    They’d of surely said SOMETHING regarding an update for it if they were still working on it, wouldn’t they?

    In house and chosen third party developers will have access to it, but I have little to no hope that we, as players, will have access to it.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
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  35. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Active Member

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    It so very strange all this. After 1100 days I can't even take BR204 to new location longer trains and so on.
    If DTG don't want to do a whole Editor, I want them to do just a Scenario editor.
    We are completely locked in what dovetail says what to do as it is now.
    When you have finished scenarios you have Timetable (Journeys) but this is almost just the same whole time,
    So I lose my desire to drive on.
    I want to set my engine on new place new route new train and so on. I want to do a Scenario

    It is the first train simulator what I know we cant do a scenario. (almost the other have whole Editor)
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
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  36. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    It’s either the whole editor, or nothing.
     
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  37. npalmer405

    npalmer405 Member

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    I agree all they do is dlc after dlc. Do they really need all this money! People like me play TSW to have fun. Not to spend money!
     
  38. Jeannot41

    Jeannot41 Well-Known Member

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    Knowing DTG, it will be nothing
     
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  39. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Rhetorical question? Please tell me you're not asking if a company needs money to function...
     
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  40. maxthum

    maxthum Member

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    Seriously? Like money doesn't fall on trees which pays DTG employees who develop this content.

    I understand everyone is frustrated that editor isn't out but you all want something that wouldn't be suitable for the public which isn't user functional? I'm sure DTG has intentions to release it at some stage but this closed beta which DTG is doing is getting feedback about how functional it is and make further changes. TSW editor is shaping up to potentially the standard that DTG wants. Substitution within the routes has been something in development (eg, layers to separate from regular running and special etc) and it's something that they want to perfect.

    Here is the dilemma.
    Release Editor with broken features = unhappy customers/community
    Release editor with finished features = unhappy community for the wait but something that can work, long term customer happiness.

    When you look back at TS1, it took many years to get to the stage where it is. TSW is still developing into the level we all expect it (to the level of TS1).
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2020
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  41. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Active Member

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    What is really strange here is information. They have much info autumn 2018. They showing it dec 2018. But during winter and spring 2019 it just gets quieter and quieter. Last we get info we go that it was a closed beta 1 year ago. Then nothing.
    They could write here about what's going on or somewhere else. They must see all the frustration that exists
    They have a lot to learn from Microsoft. Every 2-4 weeks i get info about their new Flight Simulator 2020 to be released this year.
     
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  42. npalmer405

    npalmer405 Member

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    Yes, obviously they need money to function I know that. What I mean the content is pricey and cost too much. For just a locomotive and some scenarios they make you pay too much. And their routes could be a bit cheaper too. For example the NEC: NY route cost $30 but it should only cost $15 because it is that bad and they have done nothing too make it better. And they make you pay $20 for just the switcher loco and cab car and some scenarios. They’ve done almost nothing to make the route look more than 60% done. (I have route but not switcher loco only time I like driving the route in snow or rain and at night so I can’t see all the mistakes!)
     
  43. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    If thats the case, which I believe it is. Why not communicate that to the customer base? Saying that theres nothing to report just fuels adverse speculation.
     
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  44. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Really... I don't see Microsoft being so verbose about the issues they have in all of their software, bugs, fixes etc and especially when things go wrong.
    Easy to crow about the new and shiny.
    There are fixes in Windows (especially server versions) that go back a decade
     
  45. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    OK, so let's digest this one...
    If you want to adopt something early, you pay more whether it be tech, going to the cinema to watch a film, buying a book in hardback etc
    You can always wait and get better value when things are less new and in a sale, or on DVD, in softback etc
    Or you can wait even more and wait until things are older and in a better sale, bargain basement or on Netflix...

    In other words, you can buy a brand new DLC at £25, wait until it's on first sale with 20% off or wait a year when it will be 40%. The choice is yours, but don't forget that PRICE has nothing to do with VALUE, and everything to do with what the seller thinks they can get away with. If DTG sells even 100 units at full price that's good for them. I bet they sell more than that

    You choose what you are willing to pay for, and if you want it cheaper, wait. If you think it's still not good value, don't buy it
     
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  46. malikrthr

    malikrthr Well-Known Member

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    I agree, even though we have not heard anything about the editor in a while, I would rather the developers take the time to iron out the bugs with the editor than to rush the release with half working features. Similar to DLC's, I would rather DLC's take awhile than to rush the release because you have the chance to make sure as many things are possible at release. I don't know how to use the current editor in TS2020 but I am confident that with time, TSW2020 will get better.
     
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  47. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    This is the Microsoft who abandoned the original MSTS after a year or so, never further developed it or produced any more content for it, and then developed MSTS2 and then scrapped it?!
     
  48. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I had to read this three times to make sure my eyesight wasn't deceiving me!

    How do you think they pay staff, NI and pensions and possibly other schemes, rent, utility bills, cost of research, maintenance of IT equipment etc?

    Are you a developer, have you factored in the costs for man hours, research and equipment needed to make DLC?

    They don't make you pay $20 for a switcher unless they have put a gun to your head and forced you? You have a choice? And, the sales are so frequent you would never have to pay the full price for anything if you waited for a while.

    So much hyperbole,
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
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  49. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    But, there is a difference to saying "nothing to report" and "the editor is cancelled". They say no news is good news, after all! Presumably there must be something out there as Rivet games have developed content.

    If it is still in testing, for example, then there is nothing to report, I don't know how long these things last but presumably there will be something to report, when there is something to report.

    They have assured us several times that the editor is still in production, it would be madness to keep stringing people along knowing that it would never be released, they would be far better just getting it out of the way and telling us now, so to that end I believe that there is still an editor in development.

    I am sure there are some people on here (not yourself) who just seem to want to stir up feeling about the editor, however.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2020
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  50. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Active Member

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    Crosstie Studios said exactly the same 2015-2017 then silent. Yes we are developing the simulator.....
    I see some similarities.
     
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