Speculation On Next Us Passenger/commuter Route

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by space_ace96, Feb 22, 2021.

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  1. Northeast Corridor

    40 vote(s)
    52.6%
  2. Metro North

    17 vote(s)
    22.4%
  3. New Jersey Transit

    19 vote(s)
    25.0%
  4. MBTA

    6 vote(s)
    7.9%
  5. SEPTA

    5 vote(s)
    6.6%
  6. MARC

    5 vote(s)
    6.6%
  7. Pacific Surfliner

    14 vote(s)
    18.4%
  8. Another Amtrak route

    27 vote(s)
    35.5%
  9. A metro or rapid transit route

    9 vote(s)
    11.8%
  10. Metra

    8 vote(s)
    10.5%
  11. GO Transit

    7 vote(s)
    9.2%
  12. Other

    2 vote(s)
    2.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. space_ace96

    space_ace96 Active Member

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    (Let me know if this should be moved to suggestions, though I'm not suggesting any route just starting discussion about what may be next)
    While it's understandable that DTG has focused on freight in its NA routes for TSW due to US passenger rail being much less developed than in Europe and the NA rail industry being very freight-centric, it really feels like we are past due for another modern US passenger route. So far, the only US routes on the roadmap are freight routes (it doesn't look like Clinchfield will include pax traffic, plus it's historic), and currently the only two US passenger routes playable in TSW2 are LIRR and PC, with LIRR being one of the least popular routes. PC is the only loco-hauled passenger route in TSW2. I know we had NEC, but that was abandoned completely and I never got it due to the short length and reported issues. So what's coming next? And would you be willing to put up with having a route that may have compromised sounds and quality due to COVID or would you rather wait until DTG can come over? What US passenger route will be the first to get the TSW2 treatment?

    Here is my speculation list and evidence behind them:
    Most likely:
    NEC
    It's very likely DTG may try to take another stab at NEC. They seem to be focusing on routes they have already done in TS20xx and seem to want to make 2020 the year of high speed rail in TSW. Perhaps we could see a different segment of the northeast corridor that they have already done in TS, such as NY to Philly or DC to Baltimore, or NY to New Haven. NEC would have fairly high traffic, allow for Acela or Avelia Liberty traffic, and also give them the opportunity to include commuter traffic pairing Amtrak with:
    • Metro-North RR
    DTG has successfully obtained a license twice with MNRR before and has modeled the MN M8 and M7 before. There is already a TSW-era M7 and M3 for LIRR. This could be a NY-NH remake. While I would not want to see the M7 reused and would love some loco hauled traffic, this seems a likely possibility considering the amount of info they already have about this.
    • New Jersey Transit
    NJT is another company DTG has worked with twice before, and it has more than one line intersecting with the NEC into NY Penn and Hoboken terminals. There is both EMU and loco-hauled electric and diesel traffic, creating a lot of variety. Doing this with Amtrak may be too big of an undertaking for a single route unless they shorten the route or make one company a loco DLC (likely Amtrak due to the NY-Newark portion being pretty short), but it's possible.
    • MBTA / SEPTA / MARC
    Less likely at least until COVID is over due to there being no history with DTG, but MBTA has expressed interest in being in TSW. Some lines of all these regional railroads use NEC tracks for part of their routes. DTG did fail to get a MARC license for their recently released DC-Baltimore route for TS2021 though.

    Less likely candidates / pure speculation / unlikely but possible
    Pacific Surfliner
    Any Amtrak route is potentially fair game, especially since DTG has worked with Amtrak many times, and DTG has done the Surfliner in TS. I say this is less likely though because the full length route is longer than what DTG has been aiming for in TSW, and the last time this route was attempted, DTG either did not or could not obtain licensing for Metro-North and COASTER commuter trains, and it seems they are avoiding unlicensed content. They'd also need to model new locomotives and rolling stock.
    Any other Amtrak route
    It will be difficult to find an Amtrak route short enough to be in TSW and having more than one or two stations and more than a few trains per day besides an Amtrak California, or NEC, but licensing still gives this idea an advantage
    A Metro Route
    People seemed to like the change of pace Bakerloo brought, and DTG may try another rapid transit route in the US. Hopefully if they do, they choose a route that spends all or some of its time above ground, such as the Chicago L, some NYC subway routes, and some DC Metro routes.
    Metra
    As you can tell from my pfp, this is my underdog favorite, but pretty unlikely. A third party developer did the Metra BNSF line, calling it the racetrack with no license, and it's unknown whether Metra would not issue a license or whether the developer just didn't seek one or like the terms offered. It's also unknown if Metra would work directly with DTG. If a Metra route were selected, the stock for all diesel routes is mostly complete already with Metra using Nippon-Sharyo gallery cars, F40PH-2s, and MP36PH-3Cs similar to Caltrain. Chicago is also the next big passenger train center in the US after the northeast region as a whole. The 31 mile Metra Electric District, running on former Illinois Central tracks parallel with CN tracks using NS gallery cars modified as EMUs and the 37 mile BNSF line, Metra's highest ridership line, fit perfectly into the TSW route length considering the speeds and close together stops.
    GO Transit
    No evidence. Only speculation that they may try something which could also add passenger traffic to Oakville Subdivision's detailed--yet unused--stations.

    So those are my thoughts. What are your well-researched or completely baseless speculations?
     
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  2. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    I think a route that has a good chance of being developed for TSW2 is the Hudson Line that was in TS2021.
    The entire length of the route can fit into TSW2's current route size, being around 60 miles. It can also feature 3 operators for the line, Metro-North, Amtrak, and CSX. The M7 from the LIRR could be reused for this line for Metro North, while the GE P32AC-DM can be developed for both Amtrak and Metro North use. with Amfleets for Amtrak and Shoreliners for Metro-North as passenger equipment. CSX power could be a modified SD40-2 or GP38-2 with in-cab signaling, or a return of the GP40-2 or something new (Like those SD70M's)
    3245.1110170280.jpg
    MTA_Metro-North_Railroad_P32AC-DM_208_pushes_Train_872.jpg
    marblehillhist9.jpg

    One thing that can set the route apart from the TS21 version, is that DTG could include the Empire Service Paint that all Amtrak P32AC-DM now carry, which is similar to the Phase III Heritage Unit.
    26716452065_3d5d808c9c_b.jpg

    One thing that will hurt the Pacific Surfliner coming to TSW2 is the BNSF licensing issue, as it used their tracks south of LA to San Diego, with no branding from either Metrolink or Coaster, it would make for a very quiet route with only Surfliner Trains on that part of the route. Only way I can see the Surfliner making a return is if they focus on the northern part of the line north of LA, which uses Union Pacific's tracks. (Metrolink is still an issue, but at least there would be a mix of passenger and freight services.)
     
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  3. uvm0902

    uvm0902 Active Member

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    Once Met said that in exchange for the deferred NEC, we will get something bigger and better! I wonder what it is?
     
  4. helderbrincolas

    helderbrincolas Well-Known Member

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    I think we will get a section of the NEC, maybe Baltimore-DC, because is already in TSxx and we all know that DTG is converting routes from TSxx to TSW 2. I don't mind which american passenger route comes, i just want one, because one of the things that i enjoy about the US railroad is that every railroad is different.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
  5. nberneck99

    nberneck99 Well-Known Member

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    I’m curious about the BNSF issue as Run8 seems to have no problem at all with BNSF and hundreds of miles of their trackage.
     
  6. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    As I understand it, BNSF is good to go for North America, just not anywhere else.
     
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  7. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I think it's a safe bet that the next NA passenger route will include Amtrak, and almost certainly part of the NEC.
     
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  8. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Its confusing though, as N3V games and Trainz doesn't have the same issue with the BNSF licensing deal. So whats the difference between DTG and BNSF and N3V and BNSF?

    Is it because Dtg is British while N3v is Australian? Or is N3V just ignoring the licensing issue?
     
  9. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Same with Run8
     
  10. Agent Qracle RUS

    Agent Qracle RUS Well-Known Member

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    We don't have yet no one NJT route, so... you understand what im thinking :)
     
  11. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Good questions. I can't believe that BNSF would make licence exceptions for other games, based on national origin. So you may have answered your own question. All I will say is that I completely support DTG following all legal and ethical rules. It's the right and smart thing to do.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2021
  12. space_ace96

    space_ace96 Active Member

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    It looks like most seem to share my logic re:NEC. My money is on either in combo with MNRR so they can reuse the M7/M3 and Penn Station assets or NJT because of license history and again, Penn Station. Or it could be a longer, straight-up NE Regional/Acela route with no commuter tie-in

    It looks, however, like our answer will have to come yet another day. The next passenger route will be another UK route (Scotland). I know TSG is doing most of the heavy lifting for the German content, so not including what TSG, Rivet Games, and Skyhook Games are doing/have done, TSW2 will have three new German routes, and two new German loco DLC, three new UK routes and three new UK loco DLC (As well as the new French route) by the end of the current roadmap so far. The third party developers' content will bring this up to six new German loco DLC, four new UK routes, four new UK loco DLC, and a Swiss route. All of these new routes have passenger services. Compared to all that, there will only be one new US route by DTG (Clinchfield--not counting the remaster of SPG), an additional route by a third party, and one loco, all exclusively freight.

    I understand that DTG is a UK company and European content is easier for them, but I miss the TSW2020 model of rotating through the countries to ensure everyone got something on the regular. I'm hoping the neglect of North American passenger rail is just an artifact of the fear of traveling during COVID and the need for quarantines and that they have some master plan for something big once COVID is over; I'm hoping this isn't just them neglecting it with no intention of returning to it...COVID didn't stop them from doing the C40-8W after all, nor will it stop them from Clinchfield.
     
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  13. space_ace96

    space_ace96 Active Member

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    I totally agree. As much as I've come to enjoy the British and German content, those routes feel like you're doing the same thing on different tracks--the locos and stock are either interchangeable among routes (Germany) or very similar in driving experiences. With the exception of a few unique ones, every British train needs to be driven to the same standards. Every German railway, to the same standards. US railroads vary. They have different speed limits, different local rules, and different quirks like various bells, quiet zones, flashing ditch lights, different horns, different combinations of safety systems, nonstandard station designs etc. and with the exception of the railroads that opted for the standard Bombardier bi-levels, almost every other railroad has custom rolling stocks designed specifically for them (Comets for SEPTA and NJT, Arrows for NJT, Silverliners for SEPTA, Amfleets and Superliners for Amtrak, Highliners for Metra, Shoreliners for MNRR, etc.)
     
  14. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Instead of voting for the Passenger Route I think will be next, I voted for the type of route I'd want to see in the game.

    What I think will happen:
    DTG would probably release a NEC Route (New Haven - Penn Station w/Metro-North or Baltimore - DC w/MARC) or a Metro-North Route. Both of which have been heavily requested, and are extremely popular.

    What I want to happen:
    An NYC Subway Route. Preferably the Lexington Ave Line (4/5/6) or the Flushing Line (7). NYC Subway is another heavily requested route and is extremely popular. The NYC Subway is just so unique and interesting that it would feel like a missed opportunity for DTG to not create a route representing it.
     
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  15. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, Dovetail already had the info for both of them from TS21, with the C40-8W being used in the old Miami West Palm Beach route and the TS21 version of the Clinchfield Route being released just last year.
     
  16. malikrthr

    malikrthr Well-Known Member

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    I also agree, I have a good feeling that the Metro North Hudson line as well as the New Haven line may see a release for TSW2. If the Harlem line comes out for TS2021 or TS2022, I can then also see the Harlem line being a possible candidate for TSW2. Hopefully if the Hudson line is created for TSW2, DTG can have the full route run up to Poughkeepsie so we can have a variety of scenarios with the shoreliners/P32AC-DM and the M7A and M3 EMU.

    It will also be great to see the North East Corridor be featured in TSW2. I would really like to see if it is possible to merge the current LIRR route with the Amtrak NEC if the NEC gets recreated for TSW2.

    The subway would be amazing to see in TSW2. There are alot of signal and track diagrams out there, as well as a variety of other sources for textures, sounds, junctions and much more. It would be cool to see the independent subway lines like the L and 7 lines before the main subway lines are featured. Personally, I would like to see the entire subway system created for TSW2.
     
  17. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, I'm becoming more and more concerned about the lack of American content. I hear all the anodynes on the streams but there is nothing in the planning stage on the Roadmap and, although Clinchfield and Cane Creek are welcome, what comes after? Then you think, well they were able to deliver at least a couple of new NA routes and locomotives for TS20XX during the pandemic period, so that excuse is less and less convincing (though, to be fair, I don't think DTG has actually used that reason). So we're left with really nothing to look forward to for the rest of 2021. Don't know what to think
     
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  18. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I think there are a load more routes to be put onto the roadmap. We had one yesterday which was surprise there must be more in planning maybe they aren't ready to make them public yet.
     
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  19. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to share your optimism, but, given the overall rate of new releases since TSW2 was launched, do you really expect "a load more routes" this year? I'm expecting 2 or3 including the Scottish route already announced, and, if one is an American passenger route, I guess that will be acceptable, though I'm not counting on it.
     
  20. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I suppose looking back at the roadmaps the Clinchfield route and Hamburg route have been on the roadmap since their inception so yes you have a point there.

    Maybe "load more" was a little too optimistic, certainly I would expect maybe five more DTG routes releases including the ones we know about so maybe three we don't! One of those at least will be a USA route so maybe I was being too optimistic.

    I think a return of the NEC is a likely candidate as it seems to be much missed.
     
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  21. space_ace96

    space_ace96 Active Member

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    Let's remember that Clinchfield and Cane Creek are being created by 3rd party developers and may not factor much into the production schedule at DTG. So the 2021 routes from Dovetail will be SEHS, Hamburg-Lubeck, and the Scottish line. Hopefully, the autogen will allow them to move quickly enough to maybe add one more. If that next route will be German or from the UK, that would just be an insult. I saw the stream last night, and it's frustrating that they keep saying "yeah we know there's a gap in US passenger content and we know and are concerned about it." Apparently not concerned enough to do anything unless they have ideas but are struggling with licensing or something, which shouldn't be a problem with Amtrak at the very least.
     
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  22. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Clinchfield is being made by Dovetail.
     
  23. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    No, this is false. Clinchfield is a DTG route, not third-party.

    Cheers
     
  24. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Yes, must admit, hearing the same palliative over and over is getting a little old now. Just a genuine commitment to a US passenger route would be something, at least.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2021
  25. nberneck99

    nberneck99 Well-Known Member

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    I’m hopeful it means something massive is coming, like MBTA+Amtrak or something of the like.
     
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  26. malikrthr

    malikrthr Well-Known Member

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    I also agree, we need more passenger routes based in the US. There are many passenger european routes in TSW2 but very little american passenger routes. We need more Amtrak, Metro North, LIRR, NJT, NYC Subway, MBTA, and Metra.
     
  27. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    You're half correct Cane Creek is being made by a third party dev, but Clinchfield is being made by DTG.
     
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  28. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    According to Sam in an earlier livestream, DTG decides on projects in batches of a half-dozen at a time. He said then (last month IIRC) that they were coming to the end of the last batch with SEHS/465 and Clinchfield and that decisions were pending on what the next half-dozen would be (this does not include 3rd parties). I'm guessing the Scottish route is the only one out of the new group they've let out of the bag so far.
     
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  29. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Okay thanks for that, I missed that one.
     
  30. space_ace96

    space_ace96 Active Member

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    Sorry, y'all are right. I was sleepy and got confused. Yeah it's just Cane Creek.
     
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  31. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    From my experience with Trainz I'd honestly guess the latter, there's a branded McDonalds and some BP stuff included with Trainz 2010, and I can confirm the former's still in with TANE. Could be wrong but I highly doubt they'd go out of the way to license those. Also given the amount of junk they'd included from 2004 till 2010 they'd probably would've needed hundreds of licenses. And considering how long it takes for someone like SCS just to get one I'm sure lots of that content was not licensed.
     

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