Route Spoorlijn Zwolle - Groningen Feedback Thread

One slight niggle, I was playing the scenario can’t recall what it’s called, might be Substitute Service where you take a Sprinter from Zwolle to Groningen vice an ICM. On terminating at Groningen the objective marker is right by the buffer stops without any overlap margin so you have to creep up right on top of it to trigger. I thought this nonsense was now avoided and markers were set with a generous radius, so long as the full length of the train in clear behind any signals so not out foul of any other movements. Can it be changed to trigger if stopped within 20 to 30 metres, please.

 

At Hoogeveen station some shrubs are placed wrongly:



Even though this elevator is non-functional, its floor being made of concrete tiles seems unrealistic:



You can walk to the left of the ticket machine, but not to the right of it:



At Meppel there are these stairs that you cannot walk UP on, only down:



Edit: correction, you can actually RUN up there.

 

That issue was at St Ives on wcl as well

 

This mod increases the deadman's alert sound quite a bit. I have music streaming in the background and had no problems hearing it go off. Before this mod, I almost never heard it with the same music stream playing.
Well done to you sir/madam for this helpful mod.

 

In "Groningen Hero" it's possible to drive the SNG with the parking brake still engaged.
Also the destination boards seem really dim on the SNG. See attached picture.

 

For IC service 515, there is congestion in front of Groningen station because an IC service is blocking the entrance. Behind it, several Sprinter trains are standing directly at the signals.

 

I couldn't even hear it above the train engines, without music
I even started to hear phantom-alerts
Credits for the mod go to Elena

 

I've got a problem with conductor mode on both ICM and SNG.

After starting a service, waiting for the departure time, and closing the doors, the train doesn’t move.
It just stays still at the station without doing anything, and the objective says to wait for the next stop...

Additionally, from what I’ve seen, even on longer services with the ICM where there’s only one stop in between, there are never any tickets to check, or if there are, they are very few (less than 10 usually).

These problems make this mode practically useless right now, at least on this route.
I've also opened a thread for these problems.

 

got the route the day after release and think it's a really good route. I do have a question though and that is how do you close the doors from the in cab controls? I've tried in both units and can't find how to close the passenger doors in either of them

 

The NS only uses conductors to close doors so there typically aren't any controls to close the doors from within the cab, however within the sng cab you have a keyhole next to the door that lets you go outside from which you can close the doors.

For the ICMm however there isn't a possibility to do so. You would have to play as both the driver and conductor if you want to actually press the buttons. In some rare instances an ICMm driver actually operates both roles if there is a lack of conductors for example.

Here is a video of an ICMm driver doing both roles in real life:

EDIT:
At the beginning of the video the driver is waiting to prepare the cab to go in the other direction, he isn't driving backwards nor is he an actual conductor, later on once he actually starts driving and stopping at stations you will see him performing both the role of the driver and conductor.

 

Thanks for the answer.

 

You can't. The conductor closes the doors via the controls next to the passenger doors. You can only use the keyboard/controller button to close the doors, otherwise you'll have to use the conductor's controls.

 

You can't, have to use keyboard/controller. In the Netherlands, trains are set up so the driver unlocks the train doors on arrival, but the Train Manager{conductor) has to lock them on departure. Keep in mind in most European trains, the passengers open the doors, once unlocked, using buttons near the door, they then close back using a timer. This means in actual 'life' most doors could be closed when the Train Manager triggers them to lock, after checking the platform, then closing and locking the door he/she is standing at. In the cab, the driver also gets 2 tones, first means all doors but Train Manager's door are locked, the second means that one last door is closed and locked, then the green light will come on.

 

In the sprinter you can close the doors from the cabin, look for the Departure Dispatch Key close to the driver’s door handle:



On a different topic, when taking a sprinter out of service from Groningen CS to the Vork sidings, one side destination panel correctly reads “Niet instappen” (“Don’t board”):



The other side panels, as well as the front and rear ones read “None”:

 

hole in the scenery, just before the markers shown...

 

Bought this DLC today. And wow it is amazing! Thank you DTG for the hard work! The trains and sounds are very good. It looks and feels like the Netherlands. So much details everywhere. Scenery is well done.
Hope the next route will be around Amsterdam/ Schiphol and with a VIRM. Or at least bussier route with more frequent stops would be nice.

The SNG controller is very sensitive though. Little less would be nice. But its very fun to drive the SNG.

The sounds and running sounds in the trains are also very good. Allot of bass. Even hear dutch station chatter at the stations. Very well done!

 

A couple of niggles from me.

1. I decided to do the ATB training session yesterday evening. Apart from the ongoing annoyance that it switches the coloured track marker stop position back on, even though off in options… I made a slight fluff of the first over speed and didn’t brake quickly enough. At that point no indication how to recover and while I figured it out eventually, mouse clicking over the red reset icon on the HUD did not activate. Had to restart the tutorial.

2. ATB as implemented in game is not infallible. Picking up the next run in Journey, which is a stopping service from Groningen to Zwolle without realising it the game had despatched the train against a red (ground) signal at Groningen which was not readily visible from the start position. I had enabled ATB but it failed to activate in time to prevent a SPAD even though only travelling at around 30 km/h.

 

On PS5 at the SNG the change of destination panel not working

 

The route is made very well: there two new trains with authentic sounds and modeled very well. Great job!
But the only annoying thing is the track, it is often a straight line. If it had more turns and stations, it would be perfect.
I hope you will make other netherlands routes in the future

 

That is the nature of Holland, though. In fact I was pleasantly surprised at the amount of curvature I actually encountered on the route. Of course it’s strange the line speed is so low on such straight track, in Germany or the UK we would be travelling at 160 or 200 km/h (100 or 125 MPH) on such well aligned track.

 

For me, I'd have liked it if they had "made up" say 50 freight workings.
I don't know if I am in the minority, but I don't care if the "exact timetable" is used.

 

Definitely agree on that one, exercise some creative licence. Similar German routes don’t suffer quite so much as you have several levels of service - IC, RE, RB maybe S-Bahn even the Flixtrain. All of which offers a more varied timetable. Same to some extent with the UK.

 

I’ve already played a lot and I love this route. There’s just one thing that breaks the immersion for me: the three-car Koplopers. Especially during peak hours, this feels very unrealistic. In real life, they have far too little capacity, which is why you often see six- or even nine-car Koplopers during peak hours rather than three-car ones. I hope you can still take this into consideration!

 

I found a British street next to the 120km/h section south of Meppel (around the 90 km mark)

 

Yes, that is correct, but even if the max line speed is higher, the game still deducts points the moment any ATB speed reduction happens (so before the max line speed changes), without taking in account the time it takes for a driver to reduce speed.

 

Yeah there are multiple reasons trains only travel 140kp/h in the Netherlands. Main reason is the overhead line being designed for max 140 or 160kp/h in most places. Besides that the caternary volt is 1800VDC which also doesnt allow for higher speeds.

In a lot of places in NL (I don't know if this route is one of those regions) the ground is soft and not stable/solid enough to provide for a smooth rail line without intensive maintenance. Often seen in NL are TSB (tijdelijke snelheidsbeperking, temporary speed restriction) because the ground has 'moved' or sunk away.

Most trains are build for max 160kp/h (like the ICMm) but the ATB only allows for 140kp/h max. And some law restricts the NS/ProRail to improve or change ATB because ERTMS/ETCS is supposed to replace ATB as soon as possible (which is, of course, not going to happen in the near future).

ERTMS/ETCS is only installed on 3 (or 4 if you count freight) lines in NL, being the HSL from Amsterdam to Rotterdam and Breda/Belgium, Hanzelijn from Lelystad to Zwolle and Amsterdam to Utrecht. But the last 2 lines use 'dual signalling', meaning that ETCS is used when the train has it installed and the driver is trained and allowed to drive it, otherwise ATB is active.

Only ICNG and SNG have ETCS installed atm (and some locos like the Traxx and Vectron) so still most daily operational drives are still under ATB and thus being limited to 140kp/h.

 

Alright.
At this point, I have quite some hours into this route, and I'm ready to share my thoughts. Mostly the criticisms, but I'll start with a brief summary of the good.

COMPLIMENTS:

First, I'd like to say. The route is absolutely great and very well put together.
It captures the "feel" of this route IRL quite well, and to me, it definitely raises the bar.
Regardless of my bias for Dutch routes, this to me, is definitely the best DTG-made route yet in the game in terms of quality.

The same goes for the trains. They actually feel like proper, heavy trains.
I can't quite put it into words, but a lot of trains in the game feel more like toys than trains. They feel light just by looking at them. These actually feel large and heavy in just the right ways.
The sound too is amazingly well done (in most areas, we'll get to that later). Especially when crossing switches in the ICM, just sounds right.
Only missing the squeeking suspension sounds on the ICM, but that's me nitpicking.

Of course, I'm saying this with the fact in mind that, as Matt has said during the preview stream, the choice of route isn't meant to blow people away, but to gain a firm foothold for a new country.
If this is the quality that can be expected for future more exciting routes, they may actually be able to compete with JustTrains or TSG in my personal opinion.
And I'm saying this as someone who was originally quite sceptical about DTG making the Netherlands, which I felt would be more likely to be done by JustTrains if anything. (given they also host Christrains on the site, and have also made the Dutch-made Fokker planes for Flight Sim)

ISSUES:

Now onto the criticisms and issues I have found so far.
For this, I'll name every issue I have found, regardless if it has been said on this thread before, including by myself.

I'll start with the issues on the route part of things, followed by the issues on the trains, seperated per train.
They'll not necessarily be in order of significance. Of course, some issues may be present on both trains, in which case I'll just have them listed duplicately.

Route:

1. Signalling issue: (turns out to be correct)
   Why are many yellow signals preceded by a numbered reduction signal? As far as I'm aware, the signalled speed changes don't necessarily happen to precede a yellow, but rather for a speed reduction as a result of routing, e.g. if you're encountering a switch with a speed limit for it. Right now, if possible, the game seems to try giving speed reductions before a yellow, while I've never known for this to be standard practice before.
   
   
2. More spawn points needed:
   This route really needs more spawn/fast travel points. Specfically at
   -UC Onnen (both the passenger and freight yards seperately)
   -De Vork emplacement
   -Zwolle yard
   
   
3. Cars spawning on closed crossings:
   I've witnessed this happen particularly on the crossing near the north side of Assen.
   
   
4. Piece of powerline missing at Staphort:
   Particularly at km post 93 on the 120km/h zone on the southside of Meppel, near the crossing.
   
   
5. Playable area ends too soon after Zwolle:
   While as a point 5.5 I'll say I'd wish the southern yard of Zwolle would've been fully included, I can understand why it's not given the amount of work it would need for limited use.
   That said. Right now, I think the playable area ends far too close to Zwolle on the western side, given that, when using Free Roaming, you can't drive the locomotive to the nearest shunting point west in order to turn it around.
   
   
6. Soundwalls at Meppel's north side:
   Visual issue, but there are soundwalls as you get close to Meppel. I'd wish something to at least represent that was included there.

Also, as a sidenote. I think it's a shame that the VAM-berg (siding between Hoogeveen and Beilen) is inaccessible. Even if not in use. giving us access to it would've given more free roam options and a little bit of extra variety.

Also, there's some invisible obstacles at some stations, and while not essential to fix. It's a little annoying at times.

NS ICM Koploper:

1. Deadman issues:
   A. The warning sound is far too quiet. Luckily there's a mod to fix this, but still. It needs to be a lot louder.
   
   B. There's an issue in which, after an intervention by the deadman's system, the warning light stays illuminated indefinitely until either you acknowledge it again when the system is active (which you can't know, cause the light is already illuminated) or until you've reactived the cab.
   
   
2. Frontlight issue:
   The righthand control for the frontlights governs both the right- and left red light for that cab. This is not the case for the yellow lights, which behave correctly. This is the case on both cabs on the train.
   
   Also, sidenote. I'm not a fan on how upon (de)coupling, the lights automatically switch on or off. This is inaccurate, and to me unwanted behavior, as the switches are manually controlled, unlike on the more automated SNG.
   
   
3. Boordnetomvormer:
   The train can move with the boordnetomvormer (power supply voltage) switched off. This is unrealistic behavior.
   
   
4. Door closing controls: (turns out to be correct)
   Closing the doors manually on one side closes all the doors on both sides.
   This is the case on both trains.
   
   
5. Closed door sound:
   When the doors close, as soon as the green light indicating closed doors illuminates, a lower "dong" is meant to sound. This does not occur in the game currently.
   
   
6. Conductor mode closing doors:
   As you close doors on conductor mode, after closing the doors, you need to re-enter the door key for the train to register the doors as closed and drive off.
   If you know this, it's not that much of an issue, but it's inaccurate and mildly annoying. The same happens on the SNG.
   
   
7. The AI, when taking over an ICM, does not seem to turn on train lights.

Notable things to mention:
The couplers are now animated the closer they come to each other. In part I like this as it looks smoother. However, it also means it's hard to see if you've succesfully uncoupled if you're not using HUD or map as the signal blocks still look like they're connected.

Also, probably a bit too much work, and I'm just being nitpicky, but I noticed that the brake light indicator on the panel on the passenger side below the can on the motorcar does not function.

NS SNG:

1. Cab (reading) light switches seem to be inverted: (fixed)
   The button is meant to be illuminated when the light is off, off when the light is on. Right now, it's inverted, and all cablights seem to be on by default as a result of it.
   
   
2. Spawning one is placed incorrectly:
   It's spawned in a bit too much to the front, meaning that if you're not careful and are standing on the tracks as you spawn one in, you're stuck underneath the train with no way of getting out.
   
   
3. Coupler compatibility:
   The couplers do not seem to be compatible with any other Scharfenberg. While this may be true for its electric signal blocks, the base coupler itself should still be able to connect to other Scharfenberg couplers.
   
   
4. Shunting light:
   Where's the option to use shunting frontlights? (single headlight)
   
   
5. Both sidescreens should be tied to the masterkey:
   And also, right now the righthand one, there does not seem to be a way to turn it off manually either, for when shutting down the cab.
   
   
6. Destination boards on the outside of the train are unreadibly poorly illuminated
   
   
7. Sensitivy:
   Control sensitivity should be about half of what it is. Luckily there's a mod available to fix it.
   
   
8. Doors closing both sides: (turns out to be correct)
   Just like on the NS ICM, closing the doors from the conductors panel closes the doors on both sides of the train. Notably this does not happen when closing the door from the cab, which behaves correctly.
   
   
9. Door closing light in cab:
   When the closing the doors, the light indicating closed doors does not take into account the door controlled by the conductor. It illuminates when that door has not been closed yet.
   
   
10. Conductor mode:
    Same problem I mentioned before. Train only drives off after reinserting conductors key.

On a sidenote, I understand the following is probably due to licensing. But I regret the fact that you do not seem to be able to turn off battery in either train. A little bit more interactivity in shutting down individual units like that would've been really nice.

Also, I notice that, on the SNG you can no longer open doors that you shouldn't be able to. And on the NS ICM, you at the very least have to push the right button, instead of just clicking on the door in general.
While it's still not the actual difference between a locked or an closed door. I'm a great fan of this change, as it just feels more immersive
So for that, I thank you.

Just wish you could've also whistled (maybe have whistling just be a seperate button you can always do in-game, even if it serves no function but roleplay), but that's, again, just being nitpicky.

All-in-all, I'm very happy with the route and trains. And I hope this feedback helps in making this route and game even better!
Looking forward to what comes next.

Edit:
P.S. should've specified. I'm on PC, through Steam.

Edit 2:
Highlighted a few issues that turn out to be true-to-life

 

Zwolle - Groningen is located in the less dense populated area of the country. There's plenty of oportunities to do a route with more turns and stations in the more populated area of the country.

Not sure this route would be really insteresting to drive with freight trains though, it's already on the boring side at 140km/h. I guess deviating from an "exact timetable" would be OK, but lets not turn this route into a freight corridor when it barely sees freight in real life. There's plenty of opportunities to add freight to a future Dutch route.

 

This is also how it works in real life. When both sides unlocked and the conductor key is used on a panel, both sides will close.

 

cyrill.kroonstuiver I am using a Rail Driver and don't find the throttle/brake lever overly sensitive in the SNG.

 

The Deadman sound is no issue on PS5. Alarm sounds come through the speaker in the controller, and they are loud enough

 

This map has one big plus, it is user PS5 friendly and nothing is blurry, and this will be mainly due to the relatively low traffic.

 

To be fair.

Well, sure. With a raildriver maybe. But with mouse and keyboard, without mod to fix it, a gentle and quick tap can already move you 20% in one direction easily. Fine control is almost impossible that way.

That's nice to hear.
On PC, it's so quiet, the sound easily gets drowned out by the general sounds of the train whereas IRL, the deadman's warning sound is loud enough to be audible from the nearest passenger areas.
So, even if you're able to catch it still, on the ICM at least, its volume really should be about max.

 

I thing that is getting to me now that I am driving with the safety systems engaged is the the SNG touch screen is very low res when you have to click into it to reset the train. This is on PS5 playing in 4k on a 55" OLED. The SNG screen is very poor looking.

Other than that, great route apart for a few times I got stranded on foot because a stairs I went down was not complete all the way. Last 3 steps were missing so it was impossible to walk back up and I had to rest set the service.

 

cyrill.kroonstuiver there is a mod out now that increased the volume of the deadman a lot. I will try to hunt the link down since I am not sure if its in this thread or the one in General. Found it https://www.trainsimcommunity.com/mods/c3-train-sim-world/c19-patches/i6115-el-ns-icm-deadman-patch

 

I am aware of the mods. I do use them to fix some of the issues I'm having.
However, they should only be temporary measures until an official fix is rolled out.

Either way, thank you bringing it up
I appreciate it either way

I get that. I did notice the touch screen too. Hope that gets a bit of a revamp eventually too. But pretty low on the list of priorities.

Also, regarding the getting stuck on foot. Same, though you can just fast travel back to Groningen again. The Groningen spawn point is just outside the blue bridge anyways.

 

This is actually done right, it's the same IRL on this route! This is usually done when the yellow signal is closer to the red signal than the required distance for normal braking. This method is an alternative to a signal with a blinking number, which is now usually used in new build situations.

 

Kopfloper DSD can time out if loco stopped at a red signal and it then becomes confused and cannot be released until next violated in motion ... until then blue lamp remains lit ... stuck on.

A silly logic error.

 

First of all, thank you DTG for releasing the first Dutch route to TSW. I love this DLC and I can finally play it as I have been waiting for a Dutch route for a long time. The sound of the Koploper and SNG are very accurate. The sound of the ATB system are also correct. Despite the very long straight tracks of 20 and 30 km, I still enjoy this route a lot.

Issues:
- The master controller of the SNG is too sensitive.
- Deaman sound on when leaving the cab. Keeps buzzing.

Overall this DLC is a succes for me and I hope you guys will make another Dutch route with more viarity of speedlimits with more challenging of ATB and more viarity of trains.

 

An untranslated mouse over button, with a typo in it, it should be 'Tractie verlaging'
Lower Traction
I guess for slippery conditions

 

Additional issie with NS SNG I forgot to mention. Deadman seems to be disabled at 0 speed, making brake check (reverser forward + pedal released) impossible.
I don't believe this to be correct behavior.

 

when you leave the cabin, the reverser should be set to neutral, this applies to all trains in principle

 

Posted before in the wrong thread, now in the official feedback thread:
I live in Groningen, so I thought I'd share some comparisons to the real life route. I mostly know the nortern part of the route pretty well. All the stations are modelled really nicely. The route as a whole does a great job of capturing the real life atmosphere of the route. And the trains are fantastic. IMO this is the best DTG route thus far and on par with JT and TSG content

Some feedback regarding the part of the route near to where I live:
Ring Groningen


This is the Ring Groningen (km-post 81,6) as it was in the months before september 2024. The tunnel is the new part, the viaduct on the left was the old part. The tunnel was opened in September 2024, and the viaduct was demolished after that. Both the viaduct and the tunnel existed simultaneously during construction, but there were never cars driving on both at the same time. So the tunnel should be empty (status during construction) or the viaduct should be removed altogether (after construction).

Helperzoomtunnel (km 82,7)

The cars are not following the right path and clipping through the wall and onto the bike path.

The tunnel after that (83,1) contains cars, where in real life it's only for bicycles and pedestrians.
After that, the small tunnel (73,3) is so small IRL, you can hardly walk upright in there, but in game, there are cars driving there.

The path running alongside the track between the next guarded crossings has cars on it, this is also a path for bicycles and pedestrians only.

Further up the route, right before the viaduct over which the N34 crosses the tracks (km 63), the road running parallel is way more busy than in real life (I would know as I regularly take a small detour along there to work to spot the trains ).

Lastly, the double check-in points at some of the stations:


You can check out with NS here and check in with a local operator (Arriva or Blauwnet) for their trains. These double sets of check-in points are correct for Zwolle, Groningen and Europapark. The blue points can also be found in game in Hoogeveen and Assen, which is not correct (only NS there). Furthermore, the color (unbranded 'Blauwnet') is correct for Zwolle, but not for Groningen and Europapark: this should mimick Arriva and therefore be turquoise.

Playing on PS5, and really hoping for more Dutch content in the future

 

Hi,

This is a really good DLC ! A new country is a welcome addition. The scenery is very well made and you really feel being in the Netherlands. I also like the sounds of the ICM. Good job DTG and thanks to NS !

I have two suggestions :

- Please reduce the SNG throttle/brake lever sensitivity (I'm on PC), it is too sensitive to allow for fine adjustements.

- The ICM Koploper feels a bit too powerful at high speed (60 km/h and above), its acceleration in-game seems to be greater than in real life. Given its power to weight ratio (only 8,75 kW/ton), the ICM accelerates a bit fast at high speed, compared to reality. Also in game it accelerates faster than the DB Talent 2 which is more modern and has a way better power to weight ratio (the 3 cars Talent 2 is 17,7 kW/ton !). I did a comparison in the training center speed loop :

ICM : 60 to 140 km/h = 48,5 seconds and 100-140 km/h = 28,7 sec
Talent 2 (3 car set) : 60-140 km/h = 57,6 sec and 100-140 km/h = 36,83 sec

Despite being nearly two times more powerful than the ICM for a given weight, the Talent 2 is slower than the ICM ?! Something is clearly off, and my little finger tells me that the ICM is too powerful in TSW.

Let's appreciate the acceleration in this clip starting at 16m18s for example :

-
It's slower than in TSW (look at the ammeter, it's in full throttle but not accelerating that fast). I did a comparison with a video capture I took : by the time the real-life ICM hits 120 km/h from 100 km/h, in TSW it hits 136 km/h ...

Same here starting at 29m52s, for the same ammeter value it also accelerates slower than in TSW :



Maybe it would be interesting to reduce the ICM performance at high speed in TSW, to better match reality ?

 

I'm not an expert, but that'd likely be more true for this specific region more than any other.
There's a reason a lot of places in the area in and around Drenthe end in "-veen", just like Hoogeveen. (for non Dutch speakers here, that translates to "bog". So "Hoogeveen" is loosely translated to an old spelling of "high bog")

 

Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
I'm not a real driver, but I've never seen it used like this before. So I had some serious question marks when I first saw how frequently it's used.

Same here. Of course it's not something you ever see in operation like that IRL during general service, so it's easy to assume it's wrong.

Apologies for those 2 wrongly flagged issues

 

BUGS Playing the Maintanence Madness scenario:

• there is no warning what so ever that the maximum line speed will drop from 140 km/h to 40 km/h after the message about workers near the tracks pop up.

• Also, at Meppel the stopmarker is at 12-car stoppoint of the platform instead of at the 6-car stoppoint.

 

The station stop markers numbers are less reflective than they should be, making them harder to read unless directly under a lamppost. For example the 6-car stop marker in screenshots below is hard to read. (And yes, on 4K resolution I can actually read these signs well from this distance during daylight or when correctly lit). The white border of the sign is clearly visible from a distance, but the numbers are not, so they seem to be less reflective than they should be.

 

Better example;


White borders are clearly visible, but the numbers are not, on distant signs.

 

On some SNG services in Conductor Mode, multiple train sets are coupled together — but there's no gangway or connection between them. This means I can't move between the sets to reach all the passengers, so I'm unable to check every ticket.