I think the better pairing at every turn is sprinter + IC. ICNG + VIRM being dubbed as old+new is one thing (though than you should go with DDZ, with is derived from DDAR, which is a little older), but that would give no real believable sprinter on the route unless you own Zwolle - Groningen to layer on. Layers should add flavor and diversity, but if you're route feels like it's missing a basic kind of service, you're doing it wrong. SLT or Flirt 3 + VIRM or DDZ is more plausible I think Wish we could go a mere 5 years back in time to also get the NS SGM, which is one of my favorites, but since they're not in service anymore, I can't imagine DTG getting their hands on any real reference material for that one. Are there some still stored yet maybe?
old but fun to drive and quite nimble... kinda like Austrian EMU OBB 4020 / 5040 or OBB 1144 (old and loud, but man can it accelerate)... y know, I dont really like old cos of nostalgia factor, but I can appreciate older locos or units that were kind of steps towards modernity in terms of performance or controls
The DDZ got modernized between 2009 and 2014. So that's pretty recent. The VIRM series dates back to 2000. So older, but still not 90s. Perhaps you're confusing them with the older DD-AR and DD-IRM series, which indeed date back to the 90s.
Glad you have the same opinion about that route. Between the 2 main cities in Holland. I visited Holland in 2002, on a tour in central Europe countries. Of course I went to the beautiful Amsterdam Centraal main station, watching trains. I wonder about the famous and typical Holland wind mills... I do not see them in the DTG route. I guess... they are not around on that route area?. Is this right? Anyway next TSW5 route will be Germany - Frankfurt S Lines - , so new Holland route it will take some time... May be, one of the new included on future TSW6?!... Being the first time a non German / UK / USA one, for the first time?
Oh I'd love to see the NS SGM. Back in the day, my daily commute between Hilversum and Utrecht was either a SGM or a Mat'64, with only occasionally a DD-AR. I'm no expert, but I don't think any SGM were conserved. ChrisTrains did a TSC model though, so he might have some research material.
DTG happened to pick a route where the windmills are just far enough out to not be modelled in the game. Groningen city has two windmills ("De Jonge Held" and "'t Witte Lam") both of which are groundwater pumps to keep our feet dry, and both are still functional, but not near the train station or tracks. The same goes for Drenthe, where there are two functional windmills near Meppel ("De Vlijt" and "De Weert", both wheat/grain grinders) and for Overijssel ("Besthmener" "De Lelie", "Den Oort", "Konijnenbelt", all grinders in Ommen and oilseed grinder "De Passiebloem" in Zwolle, all these are functional).
There are 3 (3.1 to be precise ) SGM(m) units preserved. The National Railway museum (Spoorwegmuseum) in Utrecht has unit 2133 (a two-car unit) in their collection: ...as well as a head of one that's fitted as a simulator (that you can actually operate when you visit the museum) in the original yellow livery: In addition, ProRail owns unit 2134 for "practice" (whatever that means), which has been painted in ProRail livery: Finally, there's three-car unit 2995, which is currently sitting at Amersfoort Opstel (and has been for almost 3 years now), occasionally moved tob a different track but nothing more. No-one's sure why this unit hasn't been scrapped, and what NS has in mind for it. It's not going to Spoorwegmuseum:
VIRM was originally launched as DD-IRM (before being lengthened as "VIRM") in 1994. The first unit was actually built in 1991, but didn't enter passenger service until 1994. The thing with VIRM is that it's not one train type, but a collection of three subseries that share the body shell design and are built to be compatible (units from different subseries can be coupled together without issue), but differ in the way that traction is designed and in interior design and layout. The first series consisted of 160 units: Class 8200 (80 three-car units) and Class 8400 (80 four-car units), introduced in passenger service in phases between 1994 and 1996. In 2002 Class 8200 was lengthened to four cars, and renumbered into Class 9400, while Class 8400 was lengthened to six cars and renumbered into Class 8600. The class name changed from DD-IRM (Dubbeldeks InterRegio Materieel, or "Double Decker Inter Regional Stock") to VIRM (Verlengd InterRegio Materieel or "Lengthened Inter Regional Stock"). At the same time, 50 new units were delivered into service, 25 as Class 9500 (four-car units) and 25 as Class 8700 (six-car units). These units are slightly different from the existing, but lengthened series. Although these units were never lengthened (they were delivered as four-car and six-car units from the factory), their class name is still VIRM. The third series followed directly behind, and was delivered in 2005. It consists of twenty six-car units in Class 8700, identical to the second series (it was simply a second serving of the same design Bombardier just finished building). The fourth and final series was delivered in 2009 and consists of 50 four-car units in Class 9500. These are again different from the previous series, but share the same body shell and are compatible with previous series' units and can be coupled together with them without issue. The first, second and third series have all been refurbished into VIRMm. The extra, lowercase "m" stands for "modernised". The first and second series have the same livery, the third series is in the NS Flow livery. The fourth series is currently undergoing refurbishment into VIRMm, but you can still spot unrefurbished units in the wild.
These old sprinters would be nice. But unless they're making a backdsted route, I don't see them happening. But I would love it!
The thing with doing a backdated route would be that DTG couldn't use the SNG, while one of the reasons to do Zwolle-Groningen was to build up a base of rolling stock to be used in future routes.
My personal guess would be DDZ, either as train with the next route or a separate DLC. DDZ is used on quite a few routes, including Groningen -Zwolle, so a safe bet for DTG. While VIRM is iconic, it doesn't run on Groningen - Zwolle. Neither does SLT (used mostly in the west, although some services used to run to Zwolle over the Hanzelijn using SLT). The NS FLIRT3 is a limited series of only 58 units, which (NS) runs in Zuid Holland, Noord-Brabant and Gelderland only. Arriva, QBuzz, Transdev and Keolis run their own variants of the Stadler FLIRT of course, but I'm assuming we won't see a license for those liveries anytime soon. NS FLIRT3 While planning the retirement of Mat'64 local stock, NS planned on using the Siemens SLT as the default Sprinter stock throughout the Netherlands. They were even planned to replace SGMm when that stock would retire a few years later. But the winter of 2009 proved that SLT was not the way forward. SLT was based on the German BR425, but NS had ordered a few modifications to the design. Including the removal of the toilets, but most importantly changing the motor cooling system in such a way that it could not handle.... snow. And it doesn snow in the Netherlands, so this was a problem. NS decided not to take up the option for more SLT units with Siemens, and instead extended Mat'64 stock's life by a few years by refurbishing them to pass the checks and get a new permit. In the meantime, the tender for SNG was prepared, which would be an enormous order of over 200 units that would replace both Mat'64 and SGMm. But the expiration date for the refurbished Mat'64 stock grew closer, and a another refurbishment to make them pass the checks for a new extension wasn't possible. Yet the tender for SNG was still in progress, so the first SNG units in service were still a few years off at that time. NS panicked. They would have a shortage of Sprinter stock with Mat'64 out of the picture and SGMm thinly spread as it was. Retired Class 1700 hauled DDM-1 and DDAR stock was put back into service on a few lines, and SGMm was concentrated on the lines where station dwell times associated with double deck stock in Sprinter service were the most problematic. What NS needed, was a stop-gap solution with single deck stock with lots of doors and quick acceleration. So NS contacted Stadler, and ordered 58 FLIRT3 with only minor modifications from the factory default configuration. Because the order was below a certain threshold in value, and NS cold prove that a full tender in accordance with EU law would take too much time, the government allowed the order to go through. Stadler could deliver, as the factory was just finishing up a FLIRT order for a different operator, and started production for NS immediately. The 58 units replaced DDM-1, DDAR and some SGMm services on the routes from Dordrecht (South Holland) to Noord-Brabant, most Sprinter services on other routes in Noord-Brabant and on the Gelderland routes between Arnhem and Den Bosch and Arnhem and Ede-Wageningen. While 58 units wasn't enough, some gaps were filled with SLT from other regions (which meant shorterd trains in those regions) until SNG could fill those gaps. NS was pretty pleased with the FLIRT, but was not allowed to extend the order beyond the 58 units, and so the fleet never grew to a sizable proportion. In addition to the 58 units in NS Sprinter livery, NS also owns six FLIRT units for their R-NET services between Gouda and Alphen aan den Rijn. While they appear similar to their 58 cousins other than in livery, they have a lower top speed of 140 km/h (as opposed to 160).
Well surely there was a transition period when both the old Sprinters and the new SNGs ran at the same time? They could to that, lol
be it the older dosto EMU or VIRM, I would like either... there is sth majestic about those chonky beasts blasting at higher speeds
SGMm and SNG did run at the same time. Between 2019 and 2021, both SGMm and SNG were active, with SNG units gradually being delivered as SGMm units were being gradually taken aside and stripped before being scrapped. As for Zwolle - Groningen: When the new time table started on December 15h 2019, no more SGMm units were planned in active service on this route. The Sprinter services between the two cities (service 81xx) were executed by SNG from that day entirely. So no SNG and SGMm did not run on this route at the same time, as there was a clear cut between the deployment of both stock types on that date. One last run was made by SGMm on Zwolle - Groningen on 11th december 2021, part of the stock's goodbye tour, as seen in the video below. The big text on the side of unit 2995 (the second unit on the video) reads "1975 - 2021 After 46 years, I'm done Sprinting":
Hi, how to drive Vectron ? I NL 1.5 kV selected but loco don't move: panto raise, closed circuit breaker, braking brake realsed
Your main circuit breaker is open, as shown by the two icons I've circled. You probably tried closing it too early after raising the pantograph, so it didn't actually do anything. The Vectron takes a moment to check if the voltage and frequency on the OLE matches what you have selected, and you can only close the MCB once it's finished doing that.
I will wait till the ATB system is implemented ... anyway, is there a difference in speeds and such for freight then? like PZB has those different modes
I am waiting for having ATB on Vectron too. Despite of that I made several freight services - using Free Roam - and selecting SIFA. I did it that way, do to there is only one freight service with the route. Special note: in order to make a more interesting drive - and also I believe it is in real world - I select some different paths, in order to stop the freight train, and let the passenger ones to pass mine.
It is in part that, why even though I love the route as is, I think it might've just been a tiny bit better if they went with 2022 for the route. That was before the rework of the area of Hoogeveen, which means it would've still had its 3rd platform, which was generally used occasionally to let freight trains or empty stock moves wait for a bit while letting some traffic pass. Would've also made the Hoogeveen curve restricted to 80km/h which would've added just a little bit of extra speed limit variety in a route that is relatively monotomous with its speed limits.
Well even if no old Sprinter for Zwolle-Groningen, maybe the next dutch route could be set in 2019-2021 and feature them, and the SNG could even subsitute in.
I would love it if it did, but it's highly unlikely for now. Specifically, part of why Zwolle - Groningen is so good, is because there was proper access to the rolling stock thanks to the cooperation by NS. All previously mentioned modern trains are still in service, and assuming NS' cooperation isn't just a one-time thing, DTG can have proper access to any of them. It would make sense to first go through as much as you can get from NS' cooperation as you can, before you start dipping into the stuff you can't get (as much) reliable data and reference material for. Especially for some rolling stock like NS DDZ, because while not as close to the end of its service life as NS ICM, the DDZ is up for replacement next. With that, assuming there'll be more Dutch content announced down the like (we'll just have to wait and see though), if that happens, I'm expecting it too to be as modern as possible. Would love an NS SGM in the game as soon as possible. But it makes more sense to first pad out the existing modern- and available rolling stock.
Oh, I totally agree. Hopefully the DDZ is next, because it's aging as well, but still running around plenty, so it's good for many routes. I've been watching the Groningen livestream in the past days and there are DDZs appearing all day. Hopefully the next dutch route features them and maybe they also layer or substitute in to Zwolle-Groningen as well.
DDZ is currently in pre-retirement, which means that if a unit gets seriously damaged of develops a serious malfunction, it will not be repaired but retired instead. Units 7506, 7542 and 7528 are already retired because of this and are used as a source for replacement parts for the units that are still running. The last DDZ unit will retire in 2030 (current planning), and the fleet will be replaced by the CAF-built DDNG. but this doesn't mean that a service currently operated by DDZ will see DDNG unfortunately. Whenever a new type of rolling stock is introduced, NS does this Musical Chairs thing where the stock is redistributed among the services. The goal is always to centre rolling stock of one type around the maintenance facility that will maintain them, so you'll see stock of a single type mostly operate in one part of the country, or on routes that run to and from that part of the country. Not much is known about DDNG's routes yet, but it's fair to say that we'll see them at Zwolle for sure. Either as the main hub from which they operate, or when Zwolle is one of the destinations that DDNG services terminate at from other hubs. But I'm not sure if DDNG will run to Groningen as the replacement of DDZ, or if Zwolle-Groningen will see VIRMm services instead. What is certain, s that ICNG will take over the services currently ran by Koploper/ICMm, so by 2030 the rolling stock on the route will have changed quite a bit no matter what happens. Spoorwegmuseum currently has no DDZ reserved for their collection, but it might be a bit early for that. Spoorwegmuseum does have a DDM-1 control cab (very similar to DDZ's control cab) and one shared 1st/2nd class DDAR coach in their collection. If they add a DDZ mDDM to their collection, they can make a Frankenstein double decker unit consisting of parts of three generations of NS DD stock that actually runs
Out of curiosity, how different is the 186 TRAXX from the ones we already have in the game? Could we see them as the secondary train on the next route?
Looks pretty much the same on the outside but it has a different cab, different sounds, multiple pantographs and I imagine physics would be different too
Quite different unfortunately. The E186 is a multisystem loco (support for four voltages), while all TRAXX locos currently in TSW are single voltage. Also, the E186 uses the latest Bombardier control desk, which uses a different control scheme to the ones deployed by DBAG (with the exception of the BR245/246). Finally, the E186 as deployed by NS has ETCS and ATB installed (of course) and all the vocal announcements are in Dutch. The NS branded E186s exclusively operate on domestic services that use the HSL Zuid, and are currently being retired as ICNG enters service. The NS locos no longer operate services to Belgium - those are now all executed by Belgian E186 and carriages and NS ICNG-B units. There are no E186 services on Zwolle-Groningen (not even third party operator freight services). Having said that, the E186 is not an NS exclusive loco, so if DTG decides to model one, it could be used as a DB Cargo freight loco and as a freight loco from other operators too. Railpool also have E186 in their fleet.
There was a plan for a real goodbye tour with the sgm with people, but covid has delayed that trip. Then there was made a mistake and in the administration all 3 carriage sgm where deleted of the record. So the 2995 wasn't allowed on the Dutch track anymore.
And also, to my understanding, a satisfactory simulation of ETCS is not possible in the game yet. Given that any route made that would use this loc would have it, it's not like they can just leave it out. So I don't expect it anytime soon.
I love the E186, I 've seen it so many times driving with 120 km/ h passing my station! I would really like to see it in the future
Thanks for the detailed answers! It's a shame that it wouldn't be likely to see the ICD services any time soon - they're great fun to ride and I'd like to see a TRAXX really stretching its legs on express passenger services rather than freight or regional like we currently have.
Yeah it's really time DTG bit the bullet and implemented the ETCS system in the game. It functions a bit like LZB without the visible wire so the core functionality should not be too hard to code.
Well for now they could simply make the E186 without ETCS, since in the Netherlands they run under ATB anyway, no? And then add ETCS later if it's needed - just like they are adding the ATB for the Vectron now. Though while it would be nice seeing the Traxx, I do hope it will not be the next "new main train" on the next dutch route. It's way too similar for the Traxx locomotives we already have, so I would rather have something truly unique before it.
I definitely think it would be better suited to being the second train (sticking to the general idea of 'one new, one modified loco' for a new route) - maybe out of Den Haag with the VIRM as the primary train?
My problem would be that it still wouldn't have a proper train to service the sprinter services that way. Other than doing a full HSL bit with only a small handful of stations, you can't really leave out a proper sprinter service train on any route, and to rely on people having Zwolle - Groningen to layer in the SNG wouldn't be good business. Every route should already feel at least to some degree complete.
According to wikipedia (source https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/1700_(elektrische_locomotief) bottom of the page) EDIT: NS only operates passenger trains nowadays.
Very good points - I guess the issue with the sprinter services is once you have both the SLT and SNG in the game on a route each, you'd either have to start including them as a third train in any subsequent routes, or require them as layers from other DLC as you've run out of trains to introduce!
Well, there's the FLIRT in the southeastern part of the country. https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS_FLIRT
Knew I'd forgotten one - thank you! The other one that I'm a bit unsure about is the NS Vectron for services to Berlin with the DB IC coaches - could this realistically be represented in the game, or does it stop in too few places?
Well, there's options. Firstly, for current day content, there's still the Flirt 3 and SLT. I wouldn't expect them to be released together, so that means that (supposing there will be more,) there's enough for the next 2 routes. Than there's the fact that they only included the NS SNG-3 so far, so they could also do a Dosto and go with a more revampled SNG-4 there. And then they can go back in time a little bit for the NS SGM. I'm not a purist. I don't mind a little bit of suspension of disbelief to still get to enjoy the SGM, Mat' 64 and DDAR/-M, though anything older than that, like an unmodernized ICM, on a current day route would feel weird. And lastly. Though we know NS appears very cooperative, this may not be the case for regional carriers like Arriva and Keolis, they could go with a route served by them too eventually. Which could add a lot of Stadler rolling stock which seems to be favorited by these operators. Though I think we should first focus on NS.
Hi guys! I got a couple of questions. 1. Can we change the destination signs (bestemmingsborden) of the ICMm in TSW5? I know we can change them on the SNG but how can I do it on the ICMm? F7 or F8 doens't do anything even though in controls it says next and previous destination. 2. How are we able to change the time table? Or create custom paths to travel? For example with an ICMm from Hoogeveen to Assen. Also can we set the path so that the PIS displays on the platforms also show that destination? 3. Are we able to set the brightness of the game? Couldn't find this in the settings. 4. Are we able to change the brightness of the ICMm headlights? Thanks for the help guys! This is a wonderful route and I hope to see many more Dutch routes and trains in the near future!
As far as I know it's just a regular intercity train, making the usual stops an intercity would do. Runs less frequent than a regular intercity though, so you might still want to include a dedicated NS intercity EMU to make a busy timetable.
I'd buy a Diesel Legends-style DLC if that gets me to experience the SGM, Mat '64 and DDAR, which are the trains I've been on most frequent. Although admittedly Zwolle-Groningen still isn't the most interesting of Dutch routes. Even if Arriva and Keolis would cooperate, as far as I've understood from Matt, NS cooperation was so good, it pretty much raised the bar. Plus, regional operators are less known throughout the country. These trains are nice for those people living the region, but aren't as well known throughout the country compared to NS stock which pretty much runs thoughout the whole country. Personally I'd prefer DTG to focus on NS stock and ignore regional operators at this point. I'd even prefer to see older NS stock from the day NS still operated branch lines. Even the SM90, although its use was limited. I guess I grew fond of the NS yellow livery and it suits all the trains, more so than the liveries of regional operators.
Well, I don't know how much the NS Vectron differs from the DB Vectron we already have. Plus they already have the DB coaches. So I guess the inclusion of the international train to Berlin wouldn't really require that much, would it?
Definitely. Don't get me wrong. I agree with you 100% on this, and have made basically every argument you're making here, including a Diesel Legends-esque pack for an oldschool ICM, DDAR+1700, Mat' 64 and SGM. Though, if they're retro, the SGM should also be the old yellow variant. The modernized sprinter only went out of service in 2019 and would still fit on a modern route, for me I'm just making the point that there's options to be had, and it's not like once the SLT is made, there's no more options to go to for sprinter trains to be included on Dutch routes. Also, I agree with the fact that regional operators simply aren't "iconically Dutch", and should mostly be at about the bottom of the list of priorities, though I don't think they should be ignored forever alltogether, just not before every Dutch train that is actually to be considered iconic like the VIRM is made. Also, there's some crossover, like, if the NS Flirt 3 is made, they'd also have the base body for the Keolis or Arriva one, even if it has some differences like only right cab door, and also for the SÜWEX Flirt 3.
1. I don't believe we can. I believe that one's done fully automatically. 2. You can create custom paths for travel, or spawn in trains. When you're on the map, you right-click your train, and select "add path", after which you can click on a piece of track somewhere on the map and it tries to route you to it. 3. No, I believe you can't. 4. Sort of, temporarily. There's a button to dim the headlights, but A) it only seems to work while pressed (not sure if accurate), and B) that means it only works while you're keeping it pressed down in the cab, so you can't really see it working in action, unless you use screenshot mode maybe. But if you're asking if the option to brighten the headlights on the ICM, you can't. And that's realistic. The signage is very reflective, so it doesn't require to light up that much. (things used to be better unlike with the blinding headlights of today)
Even more bizarre, to get full credit on German routes you have to turn on LZB, even on routes that don't have it.
