Also have to keep in mind that the open access operators like Arriva use ATB NG on their trains on their own routes. This would require DTG to integrate this into these trains.
ICD only runs to certain destinations, and don't come anywhere near Groningen. That is set to change, but by then ICD services will exclusively use ICNG. TRAXX run under ECTS on the HSL in the Netherlands, as there's no ATB on that line, and switch to ATB once they exit the HSL onto classic track. The NS TRAXX is different to drive than the TRAXX locos currently in the game. For starters, the traction lever is a combined traction/brake controller (unlike the German variant), where you push and hold forward to accelerate (multiple positions for faster or slower acceleration), let go to coast, and pull and hold backwards (multiple positions) to use the E-brakes. The E-brake lever found in German TRAXX locos isn't present for this reason (but the train brake lever is of course). The AFB lever works slightly different too. They're the same. NS doesn't actually own their Vectrons, but leases them from ELL. And ELL just bought the generic spec and ordered the Dutch "country module" as an option, which gives the locomotive ATB-EGVV (both software and sensors) and the Dutch language pack. But IC Berlin (the one with the NS Vectron and German IC coaches) doesn't come near Zwolle or Groningen unfortunately (it crosses the border at Deventer > Hengelo, which are further south to Zwolle). Also, the DB IC coaches used in these trains reach their end of life at the end of this year (certification ends), and will be replaced by the new ICE-L. The ICE-L will initially run with NS Vectron too, for an undetermined time, until the DBAG BR105 loco gets certified for use in the Netherlands. When it does, NS will end their lease of the Vectrons with ELL.
Interesting. I'm kinda surprised NS will eind their lease of the Vectrons so soon. It feels like these Vectrons entered service not too long ago. Perhaps I'm getting old and time is flying faster than I realize, but I remember these international trains to Berlin being pulled by the NS1700 not too long ago. (Which IMO would be a far more iconic loco to use)
Nice, today's update includes: - ATB on the Vectron - Adjusted throttle sensitvity on the SNG - Removed penalty for speeding due to safety system enforcements And various other things, that are nice to have. Still have to test it myself though
Vectron was updated, here’s all the changes I noticed: -ATB -New English and Dutch voice output -Adjusted blue colour for traction power readings -New language button to interact with -Italian safety system now has a boot up screen -Ebula screen added -You can teleport the other cab
You're right about the Class 1700 - they were only retired in december 2023 (when the new timetable took effect) and replaced by the Vectrons. By then only the 8 locos that were pooled from NS by NS International were still in service, with all the other Class 1700 locos having already been retired in 2020. Like solicitr said, the Vectrons were never intended as a long term solution, as NS and DB had already decided that DB would take over the service entirely using the new Talgo trainsets that were on order. So instead of investing in new multisystem locos, NS approached ELL (European Lcomotive Leasing) to short term lease 11 Vectrons with the Dutch country pack and the 200 km/h option fitted, to be liveried in the NS Flow colours. They were delivered by ELL to NS in 2023. All units carry the ELL logo on the side as part of the livery. Outside of these 11 Vectrons, NS already leased 5 Vectrons from ELL for hauling the NightJet trains (that lease started in 2020). My comment above was only about the 11 Vectrons NS leased specifically for IC Berlin in 2023. The lease for those 11 units from 2023 will certainly end in when BR105 enters service in the Netherlands. So the original 5 Vectrons that are used for NightJet services, are not part of the contract that ends in 2025/2026. These are the units 193 263, 193 733 and 193 735, 193 759 and 193 766. Some of these units also haul the IC Berlin occasionally, and I'm not sure NS will keep all 5 though, but I'm sure at least a few and maybe all 5 will remain in lease by NS for NightJet. Because the units are all leased from ELL, which is a German registered operator, the NS Vectrons are all registered as German locomotives, with the underscored D in their designations. For example, the 193 733's UIC designation is 91 80 6193 733-3 D ELOC, where "ELOC" is the company code for ELL, "D" stands for Germany and "91 80" is the country code for Germany. 193 733 in all its glory, sporting the ELL logo as part of the livery (NS probably got a discount on the lease if ELL could advertise their own name on the livery)
It's really nice to have your insights on these matters, e.leerentveld. Do those Nightjet Vectrons stay on the train all the way to Austria, or are they exchanged somewhere for other locos?
Currently, they run the entire route to Vienna. NightJet with NS Vectron 193 733 at Vienna Hbf NightJet with NS Vectron 193 733 at Vienna Hbf
oh cool. Haribo112 as a frequent traveler of the Amsterdam - Wien NJ. some fun insight. they used to swap loco's for a 1116 at Köln West. that was a few years ago. a month or three ago they still swapped coaches and loco at Nürnberg with the Innsbrück - Hamburg NJ. I'm not aware of the current way with the diversions and all that exist.
Not home yet to have a go so was just curious if there is any switch or part of the TMS you need to go to switch on ATB on the Vectron or is it automatic once you switch it to Dutch voltage? In the preview stream we only saw Matt demonstrate how to change the voltage.
All the information is there when you switch to the Netherlands system but to use it it’s tied to the PZB isolation switch
can someone who owns the zwolle-groningen route tell me what kind of changes were made to the sng sprinter (I read the patch notes but I would like to know more in depth) Can you now drive the sng sprinter on other routes on free mode cause there was some kind of problem with it when taking power/braking??
Does anyone else have problems with the SNG service of 6.33 where the train can't uncouple? There is also a problem with other services because they can't be completed when the train of 6.33 is stuck at Groningen. It's really annoying
Hi, HUD displays same speed limits for passengers and freight trains: do you know the right speeds for freight trains on NL route ?
Technically the loaded Zacns fright cars are limited to 100kph. This is true regardless where those are driven… However, I have a feeling that the AI trains are not sticking to this limit. EDIT: as just learned by the next post, the speed limit for fright trains in NL is even lower than that. Didn’t know that before…
In the Netherlands, the top speed of a freight train is 95 km/h. Depending on the axel load, total weight of the train, brake mode or the wagon type, this can also be lower. What the actual top speed of a specific freight train is, will be communicated to the driver over the roster that he receives for the run. Some operators (like DB Cargo) use Routelint, so the top speed is communicated over that system. Of course the driver still needs to make sure he doesn't go over the limit posted on signs or dynamic signals if that dictated speed is lower than his rostered speed. There is one exception to this. On the Betuweroute, a west-to-east freight only line in the Netherlands, the maximum speed is 120 km/h, which is monitored over ETCS.
Are these 95kph a given max speed? Or is it technically possible to have a Routelint that allows a higher speed? Also, I would like to learn more about the rules on fright trains in the Netherlands. Are those rules publicly available to look into?
How does one activate AFB on the Vectron? By default I get PZB, and there seems no option to switch to AFB.
You need to switch the power setting from German to Netherlands 1.5 V …then ATB will show automatically
The 95kph is a given maximum issued by ProRail for the entire network (with the exception of the aforementioned Betureroute). Routelint can't give a higher Vmax, unless you accidentally enter the wrong train number during login. The Dutch laws and regulations are available in Dutch in the official digital lawbook at https://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0017707/2023-10-04#Hoofdstuk1 Speeds are regulated in the Besluit spoorverkeer, which is mentioned quite a lot in the lawbook, and is also publicly available at https://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0017624/2023-09-01 The rule about maximum speeds can be found in chapters 18 and 19 of Besluit spoorverkeer, where article 18 first limits all trains on the mainlines to a maximum of 30 kilometers per hour (not a typo - this is a legal failsafe in case they forget to amend that speed elsewhere), and then in article 19.1 allows ProRail to set maximums that exceed that 30 kph limit on a per-train or per-traintype basis. 1. switch on the cab using the key 2. open the MCB 3. lower the pantograph 4. click the button labelled "1" on the right display (below the German flag) 5. use the arrow keys next to that display to scroll down to the Dutch flag labelled "1.5 kV DC" 6. confirm by clicking the button labelled "E" (if you're unable to confirm, make sure you've done steps 2 and 3 correctly) 7. raise the pantograph again 8. close the MCB 9. look behind you at the panel against the back wall of the cab, and find the PZB switch. Activate PZB (instead of PZB, ATB will now activate)
DTG now you have made an upgrade for the DB Vectron, which is also very nice. But at the same time you have made mistakes again. Why does the German pantograph go up when I have switched on the Dutch traction current? But that's typical DTG again !!!
It does raise the correct pantograph. It should be (and is) the inner of the set of pantographs, and the one near the rear cab in the direction of travel. In other words, the third pantograph from the front. If the first or fourth raises, you might have accidentally selected the Dutch 25 kV mode.
Mostly but not quite right: You seem to have misread 19.1 Onverminderd artikel 18 en de door de seinen aangegeven maximumsnelheid is de snelheid op de hoofdspoorweg niet hoger dan de door de betrokken spoorwegonderneming voor de trein vastgestelde maximumsnelheid."Spoorwegonderneming" refers to the operator (DB/NS) not ProRail. The operator requests a path from ProRail with a speed they selected (ProRail does have a say in if it can be allowed). Freight operators usually ask for a path taking 80kp/h as the max speed. However, in case of delay or on request of the dispatcher this speed can be 'ignored' by the driver up to 95kp/h though usually 100kp/h is actually driven. The "Dienstregelsnelheid" (scheduled speed) is, by definition, a suggestion and not a restriction. In theory any freight train can exceed 100 and just do line speed, wagons/locomotive/signaling/braking distance permitting. Loose locomotive moves are limited to 120kp/h by law, though that may or may not always be adhered to either. A Routelint system is also just an aid, not a safety measure. It can also be wrong. Even though the data comes from ProRail. Especially given the Vmax if there is a schedule change and thus a later departure and the operator didn't want to file an expensive new path with the updated "Dienstregelsnelheid".
Wow, this is quite a difference to the German system (only one I know), where the timetable is basically giving the max permittable speed, taking into account braking distance, brake settings, loco and car allowed speeds. Its very regulated. I am wondering what incentive the operator has to file for a slow speed (ie 80kph, as you say). I am assuming its not exactly in ProRail interest for freight trains to use even more time on the route (so, being slower), as it does block faster trains, no? Its a matter of capacity, in the end, and as an infrastructure holder I would be interested to use the lines I have to the max capacity possible, meaning, the faster the better?! Also, how is brake settings and calculations of required braking distances managed. Obviously, depending on various factors this must have a great impact on the max speed of a fright train, also in the Netherlands! How does a driver know that the not to exceed limit of his train?! In Germany this may different, depending on signal distances and gradient, again, then being part of the timetable, which the driver has to follow.
Does anyone know why the SNG Sprinter struggles so much when using it on other routes? (I mean when accelerating and braking)
I understand that but I see no reason to limit the use of a train like this. Other electric trains run perfectly on other routes dispite the voltage they run on.
Well it isn’t just the voltage that’s different. The Netherlands use DC as opposed to AC like most other counties and these to my knowledge trains don’t have transformers to change the voltage so the 25kv AC would be going through the system without the proper equipment to make it useful, the train isn’t meant to take in so much power.
The operator does the calculations who then gives it to their drivers along with all the relevant documentation for their train. So in theory the driver could recalculate if need be. ProRail verifies the calculations. Now ProRail works with "paths" mostly differentiating between "freight" and "passenger" paths. These are already pretty much set and accounted for for an entire timetable period (December to December). While you can differ from these paths that tends to cost more. This is due to how densely operated the Dutch rail network is. All operators have to give ProRail their desired timetables/expected trains ahead of next years timetable, this is so that ProRail can make sure as much of what the operators want to run can be run, safely. Freight paths tend to be calculated at 80kph as that's generally what freight trains do. Both to save power costs and because that's what most long heavy freight trains are limited to anyway. An operator can request an "out of path" train however this comes at the delay of other trains, in this case they may forgo the 80kph limit to cause as little disruption as possible. Or keep to the 80kph if the train can't exceed it due to weight or braking restrictions. When it comes to the infrastructure, in general if the line limit is 140, everything is set up in such a way that a train traveling less than that is perfectly safe. However signal distances may sometimes be shorter. Hence why freight trains, which tend to have > 100% braking capacity, aren't permitted higher than 95/100kph. The Betuweroute is different in that it's completely ERTMS Level 2 with Level 1 as backup. Meaning that braking distances between signals, or in this case SMB's, become irrelevant as you can have a braking curve with the exact distance you need. Meaning that with the (al be it slow) coming of ERTMS to the rest of the Dutch rail network, freight train speeds might increase on certain lines in the coming years.
Are you sure? This is not how I understand it. Even according to ProRail themselves, the netverklaring (which is issued by ProRail, not the freight operator) decides what the maximum speed is per line and train type [1], and the Vmax is 95kph with the exception of the Betuweroute [2]. [1] "De netverklaring geeft informatie over de toegestane maximumsnelheid van goederentreinen per baanvak." https://www.prorail.nl/veelgestelde...einen maximaal,de samenstelling van een trein. [2] "De maximum snelheid hangt af van het gewicht van de trein, maar ligt tussen de 85 en 95 km/u." https://www.prorail.nl/veelgestelde...-er-een-maximum-snelheid-voor-goederentreinen In a meeting with ProRail some years ago, this is also how this was explained to me. Granted, the meeting was about ProRail's decision to route quite a few freight trains a day over the line through my town as the Germans closed down their connection to the Betuweroute, and ProRail's legal representative present there was perhaps presenting the facts a little skewed to appease us lowly citizens, but at the time it did check out with the info I could find online.
The whole between 85 and 95 seems odd considering freight paths and most freight "Dienstregelsnelheden" are 80kph to begin with. Not sure why they are doing a 5kph discrepancy on both sides there. I'm a Dutch train driver by trade. Admittedly for NS but didn't get my license there but via a third party school. So my knowledge covers and some of my driver friends do drive freight trains. And by extension their operation. I'm 100% sure that if you ask any freight train driver from the Netherlands they would tell you the same, if not slightly more detailed, that which i have posted previously. Nowhere in the "Netverklaring" does it explicitly state 85 to 95kph. However it does give a brake % tables (Remtabellen), though as of the 2026 one you can only view it in ProRail's portal for some reason. 2025 still has it in there under 3.4.1 Eisen met betrekking tot spoorvoertuigen: https://www.prorail.nl/siteassets/h...--definitieve-versie-d.d.-8-december-2023.pdf This defines what speeds can be achieved where with what braking %. Only a few select sections fall under table 2. As noted bellow the table. further restrictions (x.1/x.2/x.3/x.4) are also noted bellow. This + the vehicles limits themselves is what is ultimately responsible for the max permissible speed of freight trains. But what is allowed isn't always chosen as the "dienstregel" speed. Going by the table, [1.3] a freight train in braking mode P with a length between 600 and 700 meters (not counting the locomotive length) AND 100% brake force (same amount of braking weight as the train itself) can do 120kph, legaly. Admittedly the chance of having a freight train with 100% or greater brake force is rare but in theory possible.
try the pzb release keyboard key, and let me know if it works so, power off brakes max/emergency pzb release go!
Thank you for this wonderful insight. So basically we should run those vectrons at 80km/u? I have a few more questions Is there also a 'rule' that you have to drive 5km/u under the maximum speed in nederland, like they do in duitsland? When the speed drops, on the sng and icm you can start to brake to 30%/notch3. on the vectron it seems you can choose between the combined brake and the other brakes. Which one should be used here (i think the combined brake is too slow somehow, at least ingame)
Essentialy yes, somewhere between 80kph and 100kph should be reasonable. AI takes it up to 125 it seems. About the 5 under thing, no we don't. NS's schedule takes coasting into a count. This is mainly to reduce energy usage. NS drivers use an app on their supplied tablet (or ETD in the SNG) called TimTim Pro. It supplies a Routelint from prorail data and coast time advice clock for this purpose. But when it comes to driving at the speed limit, you can drive at exactly the speed limit just fine. ATB is, in general, set up to give you roughly 5kph of leeway above the limit. This both for slight differences in wheel size due to ware and also so you can release your brakes and not have to accelerate (as) much to maintain the new speed limit. Certain trains may have 10kph of leeway due to train line brakes (pn) being slower to release. Not to familiar with the Vectron's way of doing things. What i seems logical to me is that either the combined or the train line brake should give you your rem criteria.
I must admit I thought this was an April Fools last week, but apparently Keolis really does plan to use the 904 for the Valleilijn!
