nope the ICMm is a Multiple unit. just like the VIRM and ICNG (wasp) shown up here. This thing, the DDZ is a Loco and cab car though even though it doesn't look like one.
You might want to point out the it's the rear side in the pic that's the cab car. The one that's single level with the raised continuous blue bar instead of the lowered one
I am buzzed and excited!! We need to market this properly in the Netherlands guys! We need to let all of them know it is coming: Hoorn - Medemblik, MBS, VSM, Spoorwegmuseum, SSN, Stoomtrein Goes - Borsele, ZLSM, NVBS and of course our national railways themselves!
Actually, not really. At Hoogeveen, you're probably the closest to the German borders at only 20 km. In fact, there's another smaller route stemming from Zwolle operated by Arriva's Stadler GTW's (so will not have AI traffic in this route as the train runs parralel for a few km on the approach to Zwolle), to Emmen, which at the south side of Coevorden literally looks over the German border across the ditch.
This sounds promising and i hope this will lead to more routes from the Netherlands! I love to see this growing And i was so surpised by the tickets that Interesting about this train is that they original composed with a locomotive at the rear and the cab car in the front. The NS has ordered a later order to create a DVT system like the ECML class91 but the difference is that you can sit in the locomotive/engine car.. In the mid 2000 years they refurbished those trains and they changed their names from DDAR to DDZ! The last name DDZ stands for Doubledeck Zone system... That means you have areas to work, silence and place to speak and have more conversations. Here are 2 pictures.. The DDAR with loco and the later attached engine unit
I will not be asking for any information on future projects, even though I am naturally very curious. Just, if the time comes for a 2nd Dutch route to be announced, will it be safe to assume that that one's the mini-nightmare? And will you, by that time, share what's so nightmarish about it, or will that be obvious from the get-go? I have my personal guesses, but we shall see
Guys, I just wanna say. I'm happy Matt decided to weigh in on the discussion, and being curious is fine and good and all that, and I'm happy there's interaction between the DTG staff and the fanbase. But let's not just throw out all our route suggestions at him just like that all willy nilly, regardless of how good they may be.
This is the refurbished one and not the original "koploper". The new name is not ICM but ICMm! The last "m" means moderniseert/refurbished. You can not walk anymore to the other unit. Those are now separate trains if they run combined you need to get out. For people they have no clue how this train looks in early days and no i have some interesting pictures... First the old ones non refurbished. Interesting is those trains are build by Talbot built for the mechanical part the same company that coming in the game for the Flixtrain coaches. Later this company was included in the Bombardier factory... This is the old system to walk to the other trainset Foto is taken on Rotterdam Centraal the starting station for trains to Groningen. The mainline was Rotterdam/Den Haag Utrecht Zwolle en Groningen. Some other outfits they have for short period of time: Aegon an ensures company in Amersfoort No photoshop this is real hehehe There was a special art version for the Groninger Museum and it looks bizar The original old interior 2nd class/standard class First class And around 2007 the trains get a large overhaul with climate control and complete new interior First class Second class Outside... Those trains have 4 car units and 3 car units I'm 38 and those trains are the trains that i have seen for all of my life! I live in Gouda thats the route where those trains are dominant are and its on the main line Den Haag/Rotterdam Gouda Utrecht Amersfoort Zwolle and Groningen/Leeuwarden. My dad was working by the Dutch Railways NS and i have learned a lot about this trains. Those trains are not run by computers like the SNG those are simple mechanical and nothing really special but until today the main Intercity trains for the long runs to the far north (a run from the west to the north is around 3hrs) from the bizzy randstad(west Netherlands). The cab it self is fun to sit and watch the landscape. I have been sit there for a few runs with permission but that was years back now its not allowed to sit by the "machinist" traindriver anymore.
NS ICNG are lovely. And they will eventually also be on the Zwolle - Groningen line at some point. But currently they're still being tested occasionally. Thing is, Dutch trains used to be designed in-house by NS, even if they were built abroad, which is why so many Dutch trains from before the 2010's looked so unique and iconic. The Coradia Stream design may not be NS in-house, but it does remind me of- and I like to think of it as a bit of an ode to the old Mat 64 and 54 trains mentioned earlier in this thread. In terms of basic figure, I'm sure you can see the vague likeliness.
Yeah, but I got the feeling reading the article that this route will exclusively feature the ICM-3 variant, with only 3 carriages. Also, sidenote. Hello from a fellow Gouwenaar (don't live there anymore though)
They are in service already but they use the line Meppel Leeuwarden to run permission test runs to get them in services. Why you asking maybe... Those test runs are not possible in the bizzy west so they use the north lines to test the new units and they can later go in services. They will bring in in to the Netherlands to Zwolle and than they will take the first run on own power to Meppel Leeuwarden.
Sure, and I've seen them. But when I say "in service" I quite meant "in commercial service" in this specific region, which they're not yet.
I must say that you have some very strange trains, but they fascinate me a lot! Anyway, the Coradia Stream design is common to almost all units in service in various countries. Only small details change (interior, of course!). Only the Romanian ones should have a different aesthetic look! I'm so happy to get my hands on a Dutch route! PS. Are you sure that ICM/ICMm design isn't inspired by Japanese trains? There are many with that shape in that country!
Yeah they will run from December until Lelystad and Amersfoort and the Lelystad trains runs to Brussels if everything is going according schedule... This picture is the ICMm in Groningen taken by me in 2012 (the original one not the one how it now looks with all the construction works)
Nice pic. Also, the iconic look of the orange cablight in the dark. I hope they capture it well. There's several specific things about the ICM I hope they'll get right.
Hey, so I was wondering, in which year will the route will take place? I am a Train Driver myself and I have seen a lot of changes in the past years. The 2 stations in Groningen have seen loads of changes in the past 6 years. Groningen Europapark recieved a fourth platform in 2020, in that same year they removed the train yard in Groningen. This train yard has been re located and now lays between Europapark and Haren. This train yard is called 'De Vork (Gnv)'. In that same year they also finished the complete new station of Assen. This changed the building aswell as track lay-out and environment. In 2023 ProRail finished the station of Hoogeveen by removing the third platform and raising the speed from 80 to 140. Zwolle has also changed a little bit in 2023, they changed the track lay-out at the old yard. In 2025 ProRail will remove the third track in Beilen, because they want to reduce maintance Costs Then the station of Groningen, between the years 2020 and 2022 some stuff changed because they needed room to begin with the construction works. So they changed the track layout a little bit. The current track layout is from 2022 till 2025. In July 2025 Groningen will be officialy opened with a different track lay-out. In 2026 the project will be finished with the opening of the new busstation that has been re located to the back of the station instead of the front. (The new busstation will be located on the side of the old train yard). I do not work for the NS, but for Arriva. But I drive daily between Groningen - Groningen Europapark and of course the Train Yard De Vork. I would love to see a reaction on this from Matt or from the team. If any information is needed let me know.
Glad you guys finally decided to go for it. You have however, a competitor, which is the Noord-Oost Nederland route together with the ChrisTrains ICM / ICMm. Also finally after many years of asking finally the moment is here: Dutch DLC!! I've never been a fan of TSW, but this add-on, 'specially the one that gave me my nickname, will of course have a special place in my heart. If you ever need feedback during development, make sure to contact me. A bit out of scope, but I disagree. The border to Bad Bentheim was very well known among railfans for the final services of the NS1700 stock, which went out of service last year. That is a very iconic part of Dutch rail history, as its the last part where Dutch Trains ran under German catenery and on German soil and also where they changed locomotives from the Dutch NS1700 to the BR101. All other border crossings are now a different voltage and most 'older' Dutch stock was unable to go there anymore due to the difference in voltages. Remarkably, the ICM Koploper came to Bad Bentheim as well sometimes to serve as a replacement service for a Berlin Train. ICE1 would sometimes show up in Bad Bentheim and everyone would have to swap to a Koploper! Anyhow, I'm looking forward, lets hope that this add-on is a step up for more to come. A question for the devs, you said you are making ICM-3. Does that mean a 3-coach set or the actual ICM-3 series? There were multiple series of the trainset 'ICM Koploper', produced in different years. This year, the final ICM-1 series went out of service. These were the old non-chopper sets, leaving only the chopper sets on the Dutch Railways for now. The 3rd series were the 4201 - 4230 and they were all 4-coach sets. Hence my question. Also, the most common combination is probably 4 + 3, so I hope DTG decides to make both the 3 and 4 sets.
That GTW route is my local line. It also sees container trains running to Coevorden, which until a few years ago were ran by NS Yellow 1600 Class locomotives. Would be cool to see the occasional AI container train come from there!
Maybe a good time to plan some PR and get everyone in the Netherlands train simming? Local news outlets in Zwolle and Groningen? Tweakers.net probably is a good fit for national exposure?
Because that's a German route, not a Dutch route. Only has a small section in our country and none of the iconic NS trains.
But it’s still possible if they want used Arnheim for the Track to Amsterdam Centraal. But DTG Need the Vias Rail License for the RE19
Arnhem - Amsterdam would be way too complex to make. Plus, they also need to add more new trains to make the route interesting.
I live 4 miles from the Steam-Depot from >>SSN<< so would love to see that sometime in the future. And for all the orange members, check your agenda 5 & 6 October.
Yeah, but it still just wouldn't work. You would get a route with German trains, set for 80% in Germany, with most stops being in Germany. It'd be a German route with a little twist. It'd be like saying Italy is represented because Tirano exists on the Berninaline. Frankly, trying to pass that as the introduction route for the Netherlands would feel a little bit insulting too. It would feel a little like they'd be implicitly saying that our worth as a railway country is dependent on our proximity to Germany. Not to say I wouldn't like it in the future. But only after the Netherlands has been firmly established as a country in the game first.
For the record, there was also an earlier train hijacking on this railway in 1975, a little bit more to the south at Wijster: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Dutch_train_hijacking
What you mean by complex? Only Amsterdam is a Lot of work because all the Buildings and the Water This is the Train we Need for IC
DTG actually did Amsterdam for their fishing simulator game. It was like where a canal met a basin and was nicely detailed with all the buildings etc. But of course it was a relatively short section only.
Arnhem - Amsterdam is a very big route. it goes through at least three big cities (even more depends on the route). And the part where the route mostly goes is very dense and not like Zwolle - Groningen. Next to it, you will need to make also the VIRM(m) and SLT and probably some freight locomotives to make it interesting gameplay wise. Arnhem - Amsterdam is not one direct line. It is more complex than most the 90km long routes we have in Germany in TSW. Oh and also Utrecht is going to be a nightmare
Just had another thought. The iconic 1920's bridge at Onnen would be great to include as a railfanning spot. It's a popular location for locals to cycle to with their kids on Sunday afternoons, waving at the trains passing by, which often honk back. (Street View) But to my knowledge there is no legal way to climb up to it from the tracks, there's a fence at least at the western side, and I don't think DTG would consider modelling the surrounding road leading up there from, say, the next crossing. However, with the new Fast Travel system, maybe that could open up the possibility to get to locations on routes that are not otherwise connected?
Me too dude, me too! Finally a step closer towards more European countries with different safety systems, different services, different trains etc
Now then; freight services. My knowledge of this route in particular isn’t very high. Any chance they could layer in a 193? They don’t have 189s yet so 193s could still be a good substitute?
It’s a very relaxed country, similar to how it is when I’m back in Scandinavia, so I am not surprised that they have that inside of a unit! Haha quite funny when I bring my mates over from England their reactions to some art/how relaxed it is hilarious to see!
as a first route it would need both SLT and SNG (plus honestly the Rhenen Branch) VIRM and ICM for IC services because DDZ is very rare there. and don't forget about a NS FLIRT for the Arnhem - Ede sprinter. Stadler GTW for arriva's train. an updated ICE3, Vectron and 189 for freight. and as DB628 said. also ÖBB, DB and SBB coaches plus an NS vectron for the NJ services. Amsterdam - Arnhem could be a very very good route. but the rolling stock needs to be there first. nobody will expect any dev to release that much for a route. and then I haven't even talked about the international trains and metro's at Amsterdam. It is a very tightly build up and insanely busy railscene. just between utrecht and amsterdam you have an intercity every 10 minutes, a sprinter twice an hour with differing intervals. freight, ICE and NJ. one day the dutch DRA will be a thing I hope. but for now Matt chose well on the first dutch route and I am already exited for the announcement of the next two that are already past the suggestion stage.
Spot on there and to bridge this with Bremen Oldenburg for a route hopping this section needs to be built out. It's my suggestion Oldenburg Groningen 129km. PZB ends at Bad Niewschans start of ATB at the same station on a DB BR646. They should have gone Duisburg to Utrecht via Arnhem that way HRR route hops with HDU Hollandstrecke Duisburg Utrecht.
None of the Dutch-German border crossings are doable at the moment, because all of them lie in non-NS areas. Bad Nieuweschans is Arriva only, so is Zevenaar-Emmerich (although ICE 3M ran there in the past and ICE 3neo runs there now). And while Venlo (Venlo-Kaldenkirchen) is part NS territory, Arriva runs there too. So an Arriva license and a Stadler GTW model would be needed for all of these. As for Arnhem - Amsterdam: that is one difficult route to build. Arnhem Centraal, Utrecht Centraal and Amsterdam Bijlmer-ArenA are huge stations with complex architecture, and Ede-Wageningen (assuming the route is set in the present) is also quite the challenge. In addition to needing the VIRMm you'll need both the FLIRT (for Arnhem - Ede-Wageningen) and the SLT (for stopping services around Utrecht). With the exception of the v ery short Arnhem - Ede-Wageningen service, there is no self-contained stopping service on that route (all other services go to destinations that wouldn't be included in that route). But most importantly: Koploper is pretty much the most iconic NS stock for international rail fans, and you don't get to see Koplopers on any of the border crossing routes or Arnhem-Amsterdam. My guess is that DTG really wanted the Koploper for their first Dutch train, and understandably so.
Enschede - Gronau is the easiest border crossing. It is ‘isolated’ (has in Enschede no connection to other tracks) from The Netherlands and it runs completely on German systems with Dutch infrastructure. It is a boring route with a interesting history.
So, not to speculate too hard on future routes, and there's plenty of interesting ideas also outside of the Randstad area, but a thought did pop up in me that could be interesting. My first route suggestion was Utrecht - Rotterdam / Den Haag (diverting at Gouda), and I still think it'd be a good, solid add-on. If they did that, and then also Zwolle - Utrecht, which too would be a perfectly viable route, now with the addition of the route hopping feature, this would mean you can follow the Groningen - Rotterdam IC along its entire path, making it sort of self contained in a bit of a roundabout way. Just a thought I thought I'd share though
Dutch people are known for turning every dime before spending (Just a Belgian opinion ) so future Dutch train simmers can save a few euro's by getting the free starter pack early. Shout it from the rooftops
