Absolutely amazing to see an update on the progress on the NS ICM's! Though I did immediately spot one small detail that has me slightly worried. Specifically, if you compare the WIP screenshot below with a quick and blurry screenshot for reference of the exact same area from Train Driver's POV Dutch Railways's youtube channel channel. You may notice there, on the left side on the wall, there's a small box thing next to the door. This is where the conductor closes the doors from, and is mostly (but not everywhere) placed on the right side of the door, hence why in the real train, you only see it on the left. Obviously, this isn't the final product and still very much WIP. But with these specific trains, the doors can only be unlocked from the cabin by flicking a switch towards the side you wish to unlock. To close them, you need to go to the doors to close them manually from these boxes in a process that looks a bit like how it's done on conductor mode on British trains, except we don't use a buzzer here. Obviously, it's DTG, so they're not going to make a difference between a locked and a closed door when the train is stationary. That said. Is the box missing here because they just haven't gotten to making them yet? Perhaps they just placed them on the left of this door? Or is it because DTG are going to alter the way you close the doors from real life? And if they do alter the way you close the doors, does that mean there'll be no conductor mode on this route? Or at least not with the NS ICM? Maybe I'm too early in my worries. But still. Curious to hear your all's thoughts.
The photo is an AB-Carriage. On the screenshot is the Mbk-Carriage. Photo of Nederlandse Spoorwegen ICM 4063 by Koploper77
Ah, I see. Thank you for pointing that out. I did not catch that and jumped to possible conclusions and worry too soon. Thank you
But there are 5 series including the prototype. The are all a bit different. The lower ICMm-3 numbers have headlight with white insides for example and a different traction installation.
The first series build 4011-4050 is probably getting omitted, theyre all out of service so if the route is set in modern day it would be really strange to encounter a unit from 4011-4050 since they got sidelined dec '23
I'm really curious about the route; hopefully, it will be the same quality as the latest German routes from DTG. Then Dutch modders can improve it further
Here is a mental idea... British Rail class 77s were sold to the Netherlands, right? So, if DTG ever made the Woodhead Route in the future, they would only need a new paint job.
And a historic Dutch route... I don't think I've ever seen the 1500 series doing railtours... would be cool though.
Why are you nervous about that? For now, no freight locs are in the works, and I don't see it made soon either. So it's probably going to be just some DB freight wagons stored that you're going to have to roleplay with using a German loc on free roam if you're looking for freight services. Perhaps in the future, if any of the potential routes feature the Port of Rotterdam and/or Rotterdam Kijfhoek, and/or if a route includes the Traxx locomotives, do I think we'll get freight. Though maybe it'll be a loose loco DLC. But we'll see. But I don't see any freight locs appearing before more iconic trains like NS VIRM and NS DDZ.
I’m just looking forward to the Netherlands finally arriving in TSW with the iconic ICMm and SNG (which I’ve never been on in real life I shamefully admit). I hope it opens the doors to more Dutch routes but for now I’ll take what I can get because it has been quite the wait. Even if it would be the most barebones route as long as they get the stock, trackside infrastructure, signaling and ATB right. As a signaling technician, or whatever it’s called in English I’m very much looking forward to this. Let’s go for quality instead of quantity here.
I do wonder if P signals are something the dispatcher or game understands even. I have been on those trains pretty often the last years untill my student card ran out so I definetely love to see them done well and can't wait to see what else it planned.
Onnen will be quite empty. I suppose they could put some VTG ZACNS on there (we have those in game, right?) and call it a day. I don't forsee a future focus on freight on this route, as very little freight trains use it. Maybe one or two a day, that's it.
A problem inherent to the introduction of any new country is that there isn't an installed base of rolling stock built up
TSW has the approach to be a simulation. And that's why it has to authentic. It should not reflect the passenger train part of the reality. And on the other side we have a big empty freight yard.
At GWR and SPG there was. But okay there were the opener for TSW. With similar empty yard probably nobody would left TSC.
Big credit to DTG for going with 2 new MU’s for this, also gonna be a big leap up for if they do a second NS route.
Screenshots of the Loco looks amazing. I’m going to have to watch the cab ride video to see what this route is all about.
Sure, it should reflect both passenger and freight, but the problem here is though that IRL this track has maybe only a handful of small freight movements per day, mostly during the night. And that's a busy day. Not enough to really justify calling this a mixed use track. It's like complaining Sand Path Grade or Sherman Hill have no passenger trains included. The Netherlands and Germany do share some freight wagons though, so there can definitely be some wagons stacked at Onnen without really looking out of place. But so long as there's no route in the making which has more use for freight, I just don't see the point in putting in effort for at the very most 5 timetable services. So these wagons would be there just to be aesthetic fillerwagons. Maybe if they make a route that features the Port of Rotterdam, they'd make a freight train and retroactively add some layers onto Zwolle-Groningen, or maybe they (DTG) or some 3rd party developer will create a freight locomotive as a loco-DLC in the future. But for this specific route alone, I just can't really justify the effort right now. Besides, they're now making the Netherlands because, to my understanding, in part, other than popular support on the forums and surveys, because the NS, main network operator, approached DTG to be included. It makes sense from DTG's perspective, to at least initially capitalize on this partnership with NS primarily, before setting your eyes on other (types of) operators and the content they could bring.
The BR193 in DB Cargo livery would fit the dutch route well as a freight loco. They would have to add ATB to make it realistic ofcourse, but they could just have it as a static object at Onnen freight yard. Also, while not completely realistic, the G6 in NS colours could stand in for the actual NS G400B's.
Sadly I think they did choose the ICMm. https://www.reddit.com/r/trainsimwo...veal_new_screenshots_for_spoorlijn/?rdt=52884
They did the ICMm indeed. The older ICM could've been recognized by having two front doors, rather than a single panel.
I mean, while down the line I would love a retro route featuring the old ICM's, or have it be included as a retro rolling stock pack akin to the Diesel Legends pack featuring the oldschool ICM, DDAR+1700 push-pull, Mat 64 and SGM, it was pretty obvious this was going to be the ICMm. We don't know the exact year this route is going to be set in, and there have been renovations and redesigns in recent years, but the first SNG's entered service inbetween 2017-19 and the last ICM was modernized in 2011 (and the use of the front doors was stopped in 2005 already). So the oldschool ICM was never a realistic choice for this route the moment it was clear the SNG was also featured. My guess though is that the route will be set in 2024. So after the Hoogeveen tracks got renovated to allow full line speed passing and removed platform 3. And after the recent Zwolle overpass construction works. Unfortunately, Groningen is going to be a giant construction site either way.
So, good news for those who were talking about freight options for this route. I was looking through some foto archives online and found this one at Hoogeveen station, which features on this route: Obviously, we have that loc in the game already. And I took a look at it, and you can actually activate the 1.5KV pantograph too for the Dutch network. Of course it doesn't have ATB (yet), but frankly that's probably just a small update away from DTG's part (if they're gonna bother, that is). And with that you can drive the BR 193 DB on this route, knowing it's actually accurate to use too. Of course you're probably gonna need free-roam for this, and use a few German tankers to compose a short tanker train like this, unless DTG makes a few small layers for these kinds of services onto this route. But that's fine Came across this, and thought it'd be fun to share.
I would really like to have a Vectron drop the tankers at Onnen, where an NS 6400 would pick them up to drive them to Groningen (off map to Delfzijl). Would also be a nice loco to have
It would definitely be. Though I don't see it happening that soon. The option for free-roam freight options is also one of the reasons though that I'm hoping they'll do Zwolle up until the Hanzeboog railbridge in order to also include the Zwolle Emplacement near the Windesheim Campus and not just cut off the route straight after the southward bend on the westside of the station. Zwolle has 2 emplacements, and just the smaller eastern one would probably be enough to service the services used in the gameroute, but the southwestern one also far larger and would be were you would marshall a freight train from. Specfically from the unelectrified inner yards at the far south tip. Google maps screenshot for reference. For the ones unfamiliar with the area, the track on on the right going up is the one we would use on this route to go to Groningen. Even without actual freight layers and only free-roam, including this emplacement would give more creative use for the route, as the eastern small emplacement isn't a natural place for small freight services to marshall, and just creating a train at the ready on station Zwolle's southern through-track also feels a bit annoying and half done, especially if the train comes down from UC Onnen to Zwolle and you have nowhere to put it. That, as well as of course I hope they include it just for more life with trains getting stored, moving up and down the emplacement.
Absolutely. I also hope they include 'De Vork' yard near Groningen/Haren. It is only a bit off the mainline. IRL it looks great, as it is brand new. Mostly used by Arriva, but also frequented by NS stock.
I'm quite they'll add De Vork, probably even as the main emplacement for the route. To be fair, they're going to have to make it anyway, so might as well make it functional. It's close enough to the main route it's just right there in plain sight as you're driving past, so it's pretty much impossible to ignore it. On the other hand though, the southwestern emplacement at Zwolle can possibly be ignored as it's "hidden" behind a sharp curve and buildings. And also, frankly. They can get away with not including it and keeping enough space on the Zwolle side. On the eastern end of Zwolle, on the south side of the track where some trains are temporarily stored or going through the washer, there's not quite enough space if you keep it realistic. But this route only uses NS trains, and I doubt Arriva will be a real player for eligible iconic Dutch routes in the somewhat near future. So for the purpose of the game, they can just go and steal the Arriva emplacement on the north side of the track and take their needed space. Even though the eastside emplacement doesn't work well for freight marshalling.
As far as safety systems go, if you want to see how the new ATB NG system works go watch the YouTube videos of Tim89. He drives for Arriva and they run on lines equipped with the NG system.
I would love to see it. always fun to pass by Dinoland and the yard will add a lot of moves if added properly. I think if Zwolle is a station on the line it needs to be there.
Sure, but this route uses the slightly older ATB EG instead of NG. For this I would rather recommend "Train Driver's POV Dutch Railways" youtube channel, who also drives on this specific route.
cyrill.kroonstuiver, I was making this reference since ATB NG was discussed earlier in the thread, so if people are curious, then this is a place to go. ATB EG has been discussed earlier as well. Honestly, I have watched the POV videos and, to me, did not give a whole lot of understanding to the EG operation. Stefan's videos, again to me, are clearer since he has the actual speedometer shown.
Bring them in and this must be activated with Zwolle Groningen purchased first and then Woodhead In Blue remade for TSW 5//6. FYI these used to run to Bad Bentheim Venlo Emmerich am Rhein where the Linke Rheinstrecke DB BR103 picks up the train. There's one in Manchester Science Museum for DTG access Own this on Zwolle to Groningen rail tours are made.
If they make Woodhead in blue it won't have 77s, these were gone to NL before the blue era came around.
I wouldn't mind an older Woodhead line with the Class 77, which then also can be used to make the NS1500 for the Netherlands. Probably wishful thinking, but hey, one can dream
Honestly, while I prefer semi-modern trains of the era in-between 1995 til 2015, if we're going the retro way through a Diesel-Legends like DLC probably made by Dutch Classics, I'd mostly have my eyes set on Mat'54 Hondekop and NS 1200. Though, to be fair, for this specific route, they'd probably be pretty reluctant to associate in any way with Mat'52 due to some unfortunate historical parallels that do not need to be revisited in this game.
They're nice Though, could you really consider those retro? They did run until 2008, so they're definitely not modern anymore. It feels wrong to really call them retro though, but than again, I'm starting to get older and I'm no longer the youngest adult generation If we're going by that somewhat recent but not really recent era though, of earlier 2000's Dutch trains. Nothing could beat an ICM koploper with working extendable frontal gangway and doors
I'm somewhere in the middle too. Not young enough for all the modern trains currently in operation, but not old enough to have experienced the real classics. Trains I've mainly been on include the Mat'64, SGM and DD-AR, until they all got replaced by the SLT on my local route (Almere-Utrecht). Occassionally travelled on other routes with the ICM and IRM, but I didn't have the luxury of having intercity trains on my daily commute to school and work (which is a real shame). I'm getting old though, I realized that when seeing the more of the yellow trains during a visit at the railway museum in Utrecht. Trains I've commuted on on daily bases, suddenly have become museum pieces. That hits. :P
My first memory of trains is the Wadloper, on the line between Groningen and Leeuwarden. Must have been late 1980s. On that line they were replaced by the DM90 in the late 90s. The wadlopers are still operational, in Poland, Romania and Argentina.
Btw, I drove past that spot yesterday. Apparently, the bullet holes are still in one of the catenary masts ....
Yeah, if you think about it, this route actually does have some particularly dark history. Fascinating history to be sure. A shame only that it's not the kind of fascinating history you could really make a fun collectible out of.
Yeah, I guess I'm just getting a bit old than. My first train memories are the old ICM, VIRM, DDAR, Mat'64 and oldschool yellow SGM's. Never really seen a Wadloper IRL unfortunately as I only started visiting the north when my grandparents moved here in the early 2000's. I do remember though, one of the earliest times we visited, sitting in a Plan U, which was really fun, especially in hindsight. I even remember it still, despite being 7 or so at the time. Though, let's be fair. If we're talking about future routes and rolling stock, I'd first like to see some of the older, but still in-use rolling stock, like the DDZ (which could also layer on this route very well) and VIRM. Maybe SGM and NS1700+DDAR too, while they're still recent enough to be able to get away with including them without suspending disbelief too much.
If they want another Dutch route and modern rolling stock, the ICNG will probably get picked first. Would also be nice to get some freight layers, if only with Vectrons and 185s. Amsterdam-Utrecht-Arnhem as route could also layer in an NS Vectron with German IC coaches, and the ICE3. Obviously getting way ahead of things with these suggestions
Of course. There is no absolute guarantee there even will be new routes after this. Though, even if DTG themselves never touch anything Dutch ever again after the release of this route, I do think that with a framework of Dutch systems, and with some base assets, this may still energize the modding community to finally move over from TSC to TSW. And also, some Dutch rolling stock makers like Christrains and Dutch Classics may feel tempted to move over perhaps too. As for *if* they do go ahead with more Dutch content in the future. IF. In general, while not never, non of the developers so far seem to be too keen on rolling stock that is too new. ICNG is definitely operating already, but it's not even yet fully implemented as planned yet. As such, it's not yet really become a staple of modern Dutch rail, which SNG, kinda has by virtue of being widely used, even if I don't agree with calling it "iconically Dutch". ICNG really isn't common yet on Dutch rail overall. I do think the most logical pick would actually be the DDZ or VIRM, as they're virtually everywhere, so it's probably a relatively easy to get access to them for the development team. Maybe (probably) mixed with a 4 car variant of the ICM in order to not have to spend too much time creating new trains while still adding some variety. As for freight. As I did mention a few posts above, they don't even need to add a new train for freight layering on Dutch rail. They already have one that's almost entirely ready to go, as is, livery and all. They'll only need to install ATB, probably through the settings buttons on the display, on the Vectron DB and they'd have a perfectly fine, perfectly authentic freight train that does appear on the Dutch network. Ironically enough, while I'm kinda sick of the endless Class 66's on modern British routes and think they are really going to need to come up with another modern British freight loc soon (not Class 59 plz), I'd be on-board with a mainland European variant of the Class 66. Unfortunately though, they appear on both the Dutch and German networks, and so, if they didn't bother making the Class 66 for Germany, I don't see why they'd make it for the Netherlands. Edit: Of course, I forgot. NS SLT is of course also extremely common. So along with the DDZ and VIRM, I do think that's the top 3 contenders for any hypothetical future Dutch route.
Too many 'buts' and 'ifs' in the above posting. You can sample the route in TSC, in an excellent freeware version, with all Dutch rolling stock you can wish for. Zwolle - Groningen isn't the most interesting route, but when properly developed, should allow for intercity, local and freight service. Whether DTG will ever get to a follow up stage is unknown, first the basic route has to sell well. Given the complete lack of communication as to the actual focus of DTG and its many competing franchises, I'll hold back from purchasing until the future becomes a bit more clearer.
Well, we got some screenshots, including the ICM cab, a little bit of route in the background, and a blurry glimpse of the SNG, and I'm excited! I'll share them below fromt he roadmap article found here: https://live.dovetailgames.com/live...ticle/train-sim-world-5-roadmap-february-2025
