I’m really against the idea of removing content for the sake of putting more in, it’s moving in the wrong direction. I get something like taking the HST out, since it shouldn’t be there in the first place, the 313 is just as important to Brighton, as the 465 is to Victoria. In any case, I’m sure DTG know how much we want a 700 on BML, so are working toward that goal, and if they’re not, then this whole conversation is pointless anyway.
Would be nice for them to tell us what the plans are. Agree with your point on the 313 being important to Brighton. I guess it’s just a waiting game but at least the 700 is coming finally! Even if I was excited about it coming to BML over SEHS.
Much like the question of the green diesels / Derby extension for Peak Forest, I'm guessing that no news is bad news unfortunately. The other thing to note is that we (community) don't actually have any evidence at all (as far as I'm aware) that explains BML's performance struggles. It could be the dispatcher or number of trains sure, but it could also be the work experience guy having left a field of 8K grass blades that are being constantly rendered miles from the route. Only DTG know, and only DTG can fix it.
Well, hopefully they can pull one out of the bag with this one. I haven’t seen such excitement for a DLC loco. Seems to be more excitement with this over the MML route. DTG Matt, please give us some more clues, something similar as to what Rivet gave us with the 385 and the Edinburgh/Glasgow route would be great. Although I appreciate you’re a busy man.
If there are any clues to give they'd come from different people than I, i'm afraid, if I give people clues I get in trouble
Indeed, it's the most excited I've been for anything TSW-related in a very long time - really hope the iconic sounds of the 700 will be accurately represented. All pictures taken by myself
465s at Victoria are hugely important imo. I tend to agree with you - while they can afford to remove space-fillers like the 375s, as the premier Train Sim, DTG should be trying to make routes as dense and realistic as possible, and taking as much advantage of new tech as possible.
This sounds really similar to when mum used to ask me as a kid who had done something, I normally denied because I'd get in trouble. There was however some instances where she knew (like we do) something was brewing
Absolutely, now with the Class 700 for Thameslink, the existing 387 for Great Northern (included some GX-branded ones too), the Class 66, which are aplenty at Peterborough alone - then the HST as a bare minimum for LNER services (though would prefer to see the Class 91). Thus, there's now no excuse for not having a modern ECML South considering the plethora of existing TSW content for another epic route/timetable. Class 700 at Peterborough All photos taken by myself Class 91 and 387 at Peterborough Class 387 (with GX branding) at Peterborough Class 66 at Peterborough King's Cross
As much as I'm looking forward to seeing the 700/0, I'm guessing that's a 'no' for BML then (as it runs overwhelmingly the 700/1).
they could make improvements to BML between now and summer, it is obviously a conscious decision to not make more updates to BML and fix its issues. here's another peak from today's shot:
Time to add class 700 to BML to take the slot it has in the route timetable which has been there since 2021.
Well that doesn't seem good for a BML 700... Ironically, that teaser has actually killed a significant amount of my hype for a train I'd normally be very excited about. DTG have done nothing but pump add ons into SEHS for what seems like ages now, to the point where it's becoming stale. If they truly intended to only have it appear on this route, then I would have preferred they waited a bit and put stuff into other routes first (and while they're at it, at least try and fix the problems preventing the 700 from appearing on BML). As a side note, is this the first time DTG have referred to a new train specifically by their subclass? I can't remember if Rivet specifically said Class 150/2, or if DTG specified Class 377/4, 387/2, 465/9 etc.
There are 2 reasons for the 700 coming to SEHX: - SEHX is base route for TSW3 - consoles would catch fire, if the 700 would layer on BML. BML needs some more memory improvements ... Consoles already crash now all the time on BML.
Hmm that would be a major disappointment if not for BML. However, the only major positive I can see that it says the 700/0 is for this Summer - that still is a bit away, which mystifies even further considering especially because it's just a single loco DLC that would serve just Rainham-Dartford services don't you think? Otherwise would this have not come much sooner? For other loco DLC like the 37 ROG, initial screenshots and it coming to TSW was what, a few weeks? Surely a single loco DLC wouldn't be revealed for so much hype and as so many teasers for 80 or so services on just SEHS? So, I'm really hoping the next few months is to get it for London Commuter too with TOD 4 lighting/skies like Boston and Acela as that would be most logical. One final thing, as the 700/0 does serve the BML, Bedford-Brighton services would still be an absolute minimum regardless for London Commuter I'd argue. Logically, I really hope their decision to have the 700 for TSW was whether or not it could actually ever be for London Commuter, but if it couldn't ever be used due to memory etc, then I don't see the actual point of this DLC - the Brighton Main Line is the 700's home route. Otherwise, if there were ever an ECML or MML South, you'd have all the Thameslink services that go to the Brighton Main Line such as Peterborough-Horsham, Cambridge-Brighton and Bedford-Brighton - and thus it would feel odd not having such services represented in London Commuter.
Catch fire? I don’t think so… I don’t think there’s that many crashes on BML. Think my PS5 could manage it.
No they don't. I'm on PS5 and I can't remember the last time I had a crash. Maybe on older consoles, but DTG can only keep supporting them for do long. They may need to move on soon, and I think it's unacceptable if their reason for not putting the 700 on BML is because "PS4 and Xbox One can't handle it".
The lack of time between announcement and release for the ROG 37 is likely because it's just a reskins of an existing loco, with a slightly different cab. Not a full price add on. I hope you're right about BML getting a TSW3 upgrade. I think everyone wants that.
Its more the gen 8 consoles, which struggle. Its said it was hard even to get the 387 working on it let alone anything else. Its totally those holding things back currently.
Exactly. Obviously in an ideal world gen 8 will be supported as long as possible but it can't last forever. What I'm concerned about is DTG adopting a mindset of "if gen 8 players can't get this, nobody can".
Gen 8 consoles already don't get a load of layers; parity between generations doesn't exist now and never has and anyone who pretends that this is a good enough reason for not bringing the 700 to BML is pulling a fast one. Gen 8 not receiving the layers is not a reason to hold back Gen 9 and PC.
Problem is, Xbox Series S is considered Gen 9, and DTG can't make it separate to Xbox Series X, but it is way weaker, nearly to Gen 8. So, if they need to reduce something for Xbox Series S, it needs to be reduced for Xbox Series X too (Matt mentioned it once on a Stream). And they won't do such big stuff just for PC and PS5.
Yes, now DTG have effectively confirmed the 700 is coming, it has to be for London Commuter and, if not, why chose to do such a DLC? With the BML comprising a majority of Thameslink's network south of the Thames, it makes no sense at all of not having such represented in TSW! Moreover, if ECML or MML South ever came, they'll have to include services originating from the BML too, thus all the more reason for having the 700 on London Commuter in the first place. Meanwhile, considering how popular London Commuter is, an upgrade to TOD 4 and further optimisation would seem a very strange decision not to do (especially after several other older routes like Sherman Hill and fellow Rush Hour route Boston have both received such) - thus the Class 700 is perhaps the only chance for this. For DTG, one of the most popular routes combined with perhaps the most requested loco add-on for TSW ever seems like a win-win don't you think?
Might be next gen which might cause an uproar in the last gen community since you said the bml is home to the 700. Bml still needs to be optimized to add something without problems but don't know if it's going to be ready by summer
I think Gen 9 need to be made priority for the 700 and London Commuter though if it can work without issue - optimisation permitting of course. I'm sure Gen 8 would get SEHS, anything else is a bonus for Gen 9 with London Commuter I'm afraid, like having the 313, 166 and Southeastern services etc. The fact of the matter is London Commuter is the 700's home route and comprises many of the Thameslink services south of the River Thames.
Spot on and for the Devs they should realize that Class 700/0 does run on BML which it does from time to time. Videos date from 2016 Class 700/0 Brighton to Bedford trips London Blackfriars Class 700/1 & 700/0 2:58 in this video has 700008 bound for Brighton
If the 700 is released just for SEHS then Ill be waiting for a 50% sale before picking it up. Layered in on LC and it'll be a full price purchase.
Going to chip in on this and say, If it’s possible to get it to work on LC, even if only for Next Gen/PC then it should definitely have a timetable on that route, if it just completely can’t for last Gen then it’s not possible and understandable to stay on SEHS.
all i hope for is a mml/ecml south to run it on AC prototypically as the ac sounds are just amazing imo. but until then i’ll be driving it in scenario planner on a bunch of ac routes
The optimist in me thinks DTG are releasing this for Southeastern High Speed so it is available to all players regardless of if they are on gen 8 or not and then have it as a layer on BML for gen 9 and PC only, sort of like the 313 on East Coastway. However the pessimist in me thinks it will be a typical DTG release and they’ll give some lame excuse as to why it doesn’t layer onto BML like performance issues or the majority of BML services being run by 700/1s.
Probably because everyone will see a 700 and think we’re going to get a full blown BML TL timetable (although that’s what’s apparently happened anyway). I feel bad for DTG in this situation, so many people are foaming at the mouth to get a 700 on BML, but time and time again DTG have been blasted for doing something similar. (See 465 on TL services back in the original 465). All I see coming is everyone blasting DTG for not putting the 700/0 in to the BML timetable, despite DTG making it clear how unstable BML is. I know there are people that say their BML is perfectly stable and never crashes, but you have no way of knowing if introducing a new layer will brick the route or not. I wouldn’t expect it, and the handful of people that are religiously expecting this to happen are going to be very disappointed, and will only have themselves to blame. DTG have made no effort in implying the 700 will come to BML, other than the usual “yeah that would be something we’d like to see”, and Joe making a comment about leaving space for it, that does not mean the layer exists, just that there is possibility for a layered timetable to be created if needed.
I'm sorry, why is expecting DTG to put a train on a route where it actually runs in real life too much to ask? BML was stable enough to put the (completely unnecessary in my view) GWR HST and Class 313 layers onto it so why not the class 700? I wouldn't expect a full Thameslink timetable with just the 700/0 available but some services should be there. The community didn't decide to make BML too unstable for the class 700 (if that is true) by loading it with oodles of services and layers, some of which are unnecessary, DTG did.
I’m not saying don’t ask, and I’m not saying DTG shouldn’t, what I’m saying is that DTG haven’t said that they will, so it’s not a good idea for people to be convincing themselves that it will. I agree with the HST layer being off, but then that’s nothing compared to a TL layer. I actually think that there would be less risk with a TL layer to performance than most make out, since it would cut off before the busier end of the route (Selhurst - Victoria). I do think there is a considerable hesitation for DTG to go into the timetable on BML because of how massive it is, and the stability concern behind the route. Again, I know there are many people telling us how stable BML is (when if we’re honest, it isn’t, it easily has some of the biggest FPS drops out of any route), but there is no way to tell what implication adding a new layer would have. I really doubt DTG would just skip over adding a 700 to BML if they can, it would be quite the financial opportunity. Maybe after all, with the way the 700/0 is currently looking dev wise, but a suspiciously far off release date, DTG are working on the BML timetable for it. My point is simply that ‘it could do’, does not mean ‘it will do’ and we should wait for DTG to say something on the subject.
You do make valid points and could very well be plausible, but I will also stand by such an argument that if DTG could not get the 700 to work on London Commuter, then why bother with the 700 at all? It's simple as that really. I have to totally agree with bart2day that the 700 is synonymous with the BML and the idea of having such a train finally in TSW but not on that route is just completely wrong. Moreover, consistency and immersion are also factors for any future TSW routes that feature a TL 700. Why? Well, without Thameslink on London Commuter, that's a majority of its services missing South of the Thames; also, if you had a route like MML or ECML South, should they include Brighton, Gatwick or Horsham services if they didn't already feature on London Commuter at all - it would certainly ruin the immersion! I just really hope DTG confirm with tomorrow's roadmap about the 700 - I do agree with you CK95 that if it can't work with London Commuter, then please just tell us now rather than keeping people's hopes up.
Have to be honest, il be surprised if it’s on London Commuter, delighted, but surprised. DTG’s history with optimising routes isn’t great, look at Munich/Augsburg. Couple of years now and no update.
I mean that’s a pretty short sighted argument, the 700 runs in many other places other than just the BML. For SEHS specifically it’s just as important to that route as the 700/1 is to the BML.
Another solution could be the 700/0 for SEHS as a loco DLC, a good opportunity to make that the prime focus and make it good. Followed by a new route (hopefully London) including a 700/1 which will also then layer onto BML, this could give more time to undertake a BML improvement sweep.
They can't use that as an excuse, lack of authenticity hasn't been an obstacle in the past. Otherwise why the TGV on SEHS, the wrong period ICE on the left Rhine route, the class 101 in the GWML diesel legends pack and lets not mention the layers on WCL!
I disagree it's a short-sighted argument when: - The BML is home to one of the TL 700 depots. - If DTG choose to have the 700 in TSW, then they should represent the TL network with services from both north and south of the Thames. Without the BML, what's left for TL south of the river in TSW, just half-hourly Rainham services with SEHS? You could have Sevenoaks or the Sutton Loop which would be good with the 700, but the BML is much longer and has a lot more services. The whole idea of TL is it connects London and north/south of the river with the same services - you can't omit one part of its major route network. - The BML is an iconic route with a plethora of different long-distance TL services to Bedford, Cambridge, Peterborough etc and the 700 is as much synonymous with the route as Southern Electrostars. - You're correct the 700 serves lots of different routes elsewhere but, again, if there was an ECML or MML South, there would have to be a lot of services originating from Brighton, Gatwick, Horsham as well as peak-time from East Grinstead and Littlehampton etc - it's pointless for immersion then having these if they can't/won't have such on London Commuter. - Such argument is like having a Flying Scotsman for ECML, except you can't use it between Peterborough and Kings Cross. - DTG chose to have the 700 in TSW and knew it would be highly requested for London Commuter regardless. Absolutely. Even London Commuter is a great example where they had highly unrealistically Milton Keynes services with non-pantograph 377/4s to make the timetable busier.
I mean if you want get that pedantic about it then we could apply that logic to basically any train in TSW, it’s abit silly & ironically goes against the argument of ‘it doesn’t matter if it’s not the right subclass’. The only facts that we know of anything 700 related is that it is a 700/0, which does not operate in any significant quantity on the BML & that it will operate services on SEHS. If you want to go from only that to “this will obviously run on BML”, then go ahead, but my entire point is that you’re going be very upset over DTG not doing it when the 700/0 releases, and that won’t be DTG’s fault.
This won't be the first time some players get ticked off over DTG not doing something they never said they were going to do.
