PC Tharandter Rampe: Dresden – Chemnitz - The Definitive Feedback Thread

Notched throttles are really more an American thing- even on electrics. A convention going back to the first FTs and the method of MU control (3 wires give you eight control signals- who says binary coding is new?)

 

For me it looks quite believable, 2x750 HP isn't that much for some 120tons the train weights. Add to that a hydraulic torque converter, which by itself is a pretty lazy feeling coupling, and you got exactly you have in TSW.

In comparison, the Talent 2 has (according to wiki), at least 2700Hp, and because it is electric, it also got full torque from standstill.

I would guess, It has notches exactly the way it is depicted in TSW. You have one spring loaded notch for power increase. You push the the handle there and wait until the power level is your desired level. You cannot increase your throttle any faster irl, as you can in game. This control scheme is actually pretty standard in locos.

 

Sorry for coming back to the post again but I am curious. Did anyone else get a service where it tells you to shunt a Talent 2 on a non-electrified rail? To me it happened after completing and going back to freemode on Timetable Service S3 37924 Dresden Hbf - Freiberg (Sachs) 16 : 35. It's quite odd as it seems like a pretty big oversight. I even tried using the V60 shunter however there was a red signal so no luck there.
Still love the route though it feels very busy and unique.

 

I am loving the route and 612. I have really had to bring my A - game when playing the 612 services.
The theory is easy notch up/notch down and brake but in practice very hard to handle the gradients.
My favourite aspect is the Ebula/GNT screen even though its not a full implementation it means I have been able to drive a German route pretty much HUD less. I still need a peek just to see when I am getting close to stations. I dont play German routes enough to have learnt all the speed changes. Whereas I am HUD less on all my modern UK routes.
I was just barley on time in one of my 612 services arrived at Floha a minute late time. Then a technicall issue with the brakes not releasing meant I left 3 minutes late. If the brakes dont release press the release button next to the Release brake key.

 

That's a bit strange, I didn't have a red light in that scenario, so I drove onto the ramp fast enough and then came up without any problems.
Were you possibly going too fast at the beginning? I always dawdle a bit because I set up the driver's cab (PZB, lights, etc.) and then I never actually drive the freight trains in PZB Type M faster than around 110 km/h in order to have enough reaction time for the PZB. So the signal was probably already green when I got there (and I had a nice parallel run with a passenger train in the Freital area).

 

I think that the Raildriver implementation on the 612 is possibly as good as it can be. The throttle/brake lever is pretty awkward to use with the RD. But I think that's because the RD doesn't have a spring-loaded and notched lever for it. What I've been doing is ignoring the RD throttle/brake lever and using the rest of the RD anyway (mostly the T-handled brake, reverser, lights and wipers so far).
The rest of the RD works fine and I use A+D for the throttle/brake lever. I can't imagine a way of using the RD with the lever where it would be better than using A+D, and that's just a limitation of the RD vs the 612's controls imho.

edit: As I think you're suggesting, they could have a middle position on each side which was the 'hold' position and moving it to the extreme end would set it to increase throttle (or increase brake). I think I'd still find it awkward though, a bit like the reverser on the Bakerloo line, the hardware lever wasn't designed for it so compromises need to get made in one way or another.

 

Really like the bright headlights of the 612 but it makes rain at night look very bright and too distracting. When you go to normal headlights, the rain doesn't get that issue.

Like the dedicated button for the blind. Very cool. I couldn't find a way to close the curtain on the cab door. There are also remote buttons for passenger doors in the cab you can use. Going to shunting view (walking up to window) doesn't look outside. Played a few hours so far and have been really enjoying the 612.

 

So I finally finished my first full run with the 612 last night. My first run I tried I did exactly what Matt did on the release stream (and I'm pretty sure at the same station too), I realized 200m from the station I'm supposed to stop. After doing the back of up shame, I forgot about PZB restarting in start program and then rage quit after it got upset. Lesson learned, you gotta pay attention on this route lol
The 612 really is a phenomenal train. The improved headlights, sound, functionality are all fantastic and if DTG can keep to this standard moving forward, 2022 will be a good year. The traction interlock if the door selector isn't returned to "lock all" threw me off too, but if that's prototypical, then great.

What I don't care for though, is that the Dresden area is still the poorly optimized resource hog that it is in Riesa-Dresden. In my run last night, at Dresden Hbf I struggled to maintain 25fps. 30-35 after leaving the station, then 40-60+ once I got outside of Dresden with occasional drops, which is entirely normal for my PC in this game.

 

I love the route itself. It is a constant challenge with all those climbs, descents and curves. A real roller coaster that never gets monotonous and boring and offers unique sensations.

The 612 is a whole new and very demanding driving experience that forces you to be very attentive with the new safety system and with a very well implemented tilting physics. And it sounds very good too, with superb mixes. The screeching noise when cornering and going through junctions, the horn, the sound of acceleration and braking, the windscreen wipers, the difference in volume between having the windows open or closed... all perfect, with the right volume. And the headlights are also very good, they make driving at night a pleasure.
When I get to my destination I don't want to get off this train!

The construction of the route is good, my sincere congratulations to the team. I've never been there to compare it with real life but I think it has a superb setting, with lots of details and a good distant landscape. I also like the signage. And the fact that they've put lots of trains and locomotives in the yards and sidings certainly makes the route feel more alive and immersive.

The services available for the BR 363 are not too many but a lot of fun thanks to that ramp. And among the freight ones I like ones with a rather long car transport train (44 wagons I think) that due to the peculiarity of this route often the front part is uphill and the rear part downhill or vice versa.

On the negative side, the sounds of the BR 185.6 Railpool are quite unpleasant so I don't feel like driving it, the good thing is that it can be replaced by the 185 MRCE with the improved sounds or by the 155.

There are some services at Freiberg with the talent 2 that can't be completed because you are diverted to a non-electrified track.
Oh and also the catenary is missing from the last section at Dresden station. I would like to know where the BR 143 gets its power from to be able to start the train!

All in all, a very good route that I don't regret buying at full price. In the German routes I still have Riesa-Dresden as my favourite because of its great variety and this one for me is in second place tied with Ruhr Sieg Nord.

 

I love that both the big screens in the 612 show information. I do find the right-hand screen difficult to read without zooming in (due to it being on a PC screen I think). This makes me think that proper EBuLA would be cool to have but at the same time that it would apparently be showing the same information as the HUD, and that in this case using the HUD possibly gives around the same information and so isn't that unrealistic.
Loving the route so far. Ran the first scenario with PZB turned on yesterday and had one emergency brake for a missed speed sign (not sure if that's my driving or that a lot of the route was green, either way not bad )

 

A few more notes about the DLC.
It is fun to drive, learning the 612 is challenging. The track looks good and also runs well from the performance (XSX).

It would be nice if the font on the right monitor was bigger in the 612. It is currently really hard to read. I wonder if Xbox One players with lower resolution can even see it properly.
Furthermore, the camera control sometimes doesn't work. Switching to the outdoor camera sometimes works, sometimes not (mostly at stations, but not always). And sometimes you are outside, but you can't move. But a bit later it works again.
I also wonder if the "delay" when pressing the Sifa/PZB button on the gamepad is intentional. That is already "noticeable" later until the switch moves and the sound is heard.

It would be interesting to know if the old DR passenger cars will play a role again at some point? Maybe with a steam locomotive? Hm ...

 

schorni Interesting point about the font on the right monitor. There could almost be an option to just display 2 numbers one above the other, in a really big font (not mandatory but you could enable it), or to have the read of the text displayed but the number themselves really big.

 

merci beaucoup

 

I’d argue EBuLa is even more powerful than the HUD. EBuLa gives you information on all upcoming speed restrictions in a certain radius, not just the next one. The only piece of information the HUD gives you and EBuLa doesn’t is the exact gradient. EBuLa does however inform you of extreme gradients with a zigzag line along the corresponding kilometers.

 

Fair point Lamplight. I was just approaching it from a viewpoint of "I can't really see what's on the right-hand screen, and the HUD's not given me anything that EBuLa isn't (if I turned the signal aspects off, which I haven't yet).
I just got 2 PZB emergency stops going towards Chemitz. First was for not quite slowing to 85 when going downhill after an acknowledge, second was for not reducing my acceleration quick enough when going downhill after the restart and so exceeding 45 km/h

 

I found, there are some problems with the speed limits on the route.
During a freight train, I encountered at least twice a sign with a 9, saying the speed limit is now 90, but the hud goes down to 80, meaning the game thinks I am speeding.

For the SIFA on the Dostos, you need to turn on 2 switches, for it to work.

There seems to be some problem with the PZB-magnets in the BR363-services, as I get a 1000Hz, when it should be a 2000Hz.

 

True there’s no perfect way to do it without a spring loaded lever on the RD but I would think it would be easier to use if full throttle represented holding the lever in the accelerate position and then we would manually move it backward as the spring would do into the hold current throttle position. To me that seems easier than having to move the throttle back and forth every 10% of acceleration.

 

Did it again, without many changes. Just went faster this time (I was really slow last time because I got two PZB emergency break applications and forgot to release the loco break in the second cab at first), running at 95 km/h. This time I overtook a train at Tharandt that I hadn't last time, I assume last time that one got in front of me and caused the red signal. Managed to climb the hill with barely any struggle this time. Thanks for your help!

 

Tried it- for some reason I got the G6 back, but none of the others.

 

I remember having a similar problem when i accidently deleted the "initial self created livery", which is needed to run the livery manager.
So i made a tgv white livery, because its the route i almost never play and the reskin has the slot in the livery manager. I wont touch or overwrite this one because it will probably break my downloaded repaints.

 

I've made the same goof, and it temporarily prevents using any Liveries at all- but the fix is as you stated. But it still doesn't make the 363, 403 or 406 work.

 

You will need to readd those livery’s which was below your the wagon livery’s as they get removed when removing an livery

 

One hopefully constructive observation... Whoever compiled Journey Mode should perhaps have mixed things up a bit more. Six or seven stages in and still on the 612's. Enjoyable as it is, would be nice to get a bit of freight handling, electric passenger or even the 766 cab car for a bit of variety.

 

I personally like to mix things up with the journey chapters. Did the all tutorials and scenarios as well as some shorter services first to get a feel for all the trains and their start-up procedures. Now, I’m going to tackle the regular long-range services.

 

Yes, I know that.

 

Anyone who likes challenges with freight trains (I'm pretty sure solicitr is one of them ),
Service 10:20 Zwickau-Dresden
January, snow 100% and pzb M activated.
I tried twice yesterday (with 185 MRCE and with 182 MRCE) and no way!
I already had trouble getting it to start running in Chemnitz because the rear wagons are uphill, but later, on the climb after Falkenau I got stuck both times and it was impossible for me to get going again.
I don't know if I'm doing something wrong or if I'm really lacking power in these conditions.
Let me know your experience!

 

Sounds like a good challenge!

 

You’re not doing anything wrong. I attempted the 9 o’clock run from Dresden to Freiberg (with 9 Habbiins) in snow and got stuck with the RP 185.6 when I hit the ramp proper. The 185 doesn’t have enough adhesion to pull uphill services in adverse conditions off. I’d try again with the 155 but that’s not possible since the loco is placed with cab 2 driving and the 155’s cab number 2 is still bugged (PZB acknowledge doesn’t work).

 

Who cares about if the lever is spring loaded or not? As long as all of it's positions are represented faithfully, you can always move it one notch back to the hold position. The only reason this bug exists is because DTG clearly used the keyboard control mechanic for the handle. It is not a coincidence that the one notch that has a different control mechanic on keyboard is also the one not working properly on raildriver. They probably programmed the power lever to trigger different lever positions through the percentage of where the lever is located, and because it is not direct control but rather goes though the keyboard control mechanic, the non-latching nature of the power position broke the functionality. The game gets a power command every time you move the lever over a certain position, but if you're not continuously moving the lever back and forth it clicks power off. That is a simple bug. And the fact that the route was released this way makes one think that no-one at DTG actually thought about running a service with the raildriver on the 612 before release. Too bad. Now watch them never fix it either.

 

What I found interesting is that DTG has obviously done thier homework. The official DBNetz restriction for BR185 cargo trains going to Chemnitz are limited to 840t and for the other direction its 1210t. What a coincidence, as these are pretty much nail on the numbers the modelled tains have in those directions

However, this is not to say that they must be able to do the job in any circumstances. There may be special operations specified for this route, however, I do not know them.

EDIT: thinking about it, maybe Railpool helped them out a bit

 

I'd love to, but I don't have Chemnitz yet. The CFO only allows so much money per quarter for trains.

 

CFO’s can be performance managed out.

 

As someone who does not know a lot about German Electric motors, what is the underlying difference between the BR 185 Railpool, 485.5 MCRE and 185.2 Railion, which I have via an overlay.

 

Have anyone here succeed in sanding in BR185 Rp
The button works (press it down during sanding) but I do not feel the slightest difference when I sand.
so I got stuck several times during snowfall rain etc with heavy trains

 

jayzhead You're right, the lack of a spring-loaded throttle on the RD isn't that much of an inconvenience. However, when I fly an A320 in xplane or MSFS, it is annoying that there aren't any detents on my throttles (so that I can consistently find the detents for Climb and Flex without looking at the in-game controls). Same with the power lever in the 612, and that has more than 2 mid-range detents. I still don't think DTG could have done much more with what they had with the RD.

 

Real-life
The main difference between the 185.2 and 185.5 is the additional equipment to run international trains - more pantographs from a visual perspective. Otherwise, they're the same loco. The 185.6 is essentially a 185.2 as far as I could find.

In-game
The 185.2 (either from RSN or MSB) is the oldest model of 185 in the game and definitely shows its age. Sounds are bad and physics are rather unprototypical. The MRCE 185.5 (from DRA/BRD, not the RRO one) and the Railpool 185.6 have much-improved physics and sounds (though there is some debate about sound regarding the RP 185.6) and should be chosen over the 185.2 if you're looking for realism.

 

I guess therefore the 185 is the German equivelant of the Class 66, which has 8 variants, and all are pretty much identical bar operator from what I can tell, apart from: 66/6 has reduced gearing for heavier loads, 66/9 is a low emission variant, and some 66/5s have an extra door.

 

Also what's the 500Hz speeds on PZB M? (I know it's 65 --> 45 on PZB O)

 

50 at start and 35 km/h within 153 meters from the MSB manual. Mode U is 40 at start and 25 in 153 meters.

 

Thanks for that info LampLight.

 

No! And I don’t believe sanding does any difference anywhere in the game?! This is ashame, as I would assume it would help climbing some of the steeper gradients and is used irl all the time…

 

Not just that, the biggest difference is between 185.2/5/6 and the older (not yet in-game) 185.0/1. Those had completely different chassis and inner electronics (more similar to Br 101s). The newer ones we have in the game have received a stronger chassis and frame capable of withstanding a truck hit at higher speeds and significantly overhauled electronics. I'd subjectively say more changes than with C66

 

IF I can express my opinion to be honest I am a bit disappointed with this last route.
After the initial enthusiasm passed, I started seeing things I don't like. But as long as you remain personal, they are tastes that each of us has and remain so. But to see that, despite the much-claimed rush hour, then go and do two scenarios now and see that it's just us on the trafficking, really makes us angry. It seems that DGT only focus on those 5/6 scenarios, which are quite funny, then those now leave a little to themselves.
Yesterday I did an hourly scenario at 8 in the morning, therefore a fairly busy hour on all the railways in the world, and for about 20 minutes I did not cross any traffic, both freight and passengers. An infinite sadness.

 

The routes should represent traffic frequencies as they are in real. The route to chemnitz is way less frequent than the area around dresden.

Creating fantasy traffic to get a busy timetable is just bulh..sht and would be a huge immersion braker for me.

I like also a quite routes, but tharander ramp is still a "busy" route, compared to others. Dtg did a phenomenal job about the service, substitution and empty stock part.

If you are bored go for london to brighton, there you have 4600 trains.

Edit:
Im not saying dtg shouldnt create an additional timetable dlc for players want a "as busy as possible" experience away from the real one. Its just really not in my interest.

 

With this route people need to think a bit ahead. Its perfect for the many times asked classic german rolling stock and also for steam locomotives.
Its has 2 big museums and narrow gauge tracks.

Dtg didnt choose this route randomly. Im sure we get interesting content for running on the ramp.

 

+1 for that

I feel like the scenarios could be more "out of the normal", because the normal we get from a good timetable. But the timetable itself is good, and the traffic volume is realistic, I would actually say it is even a bit busier than in reality since you only rarely see freight trains on this route, whereas there a quite a few in game, but that is a perfectly fine solution in my opinion

 

A couple of the timetable runs at least in Journey Mode, bring you out of Dresden by a slightly different routing which then runs parallel to the "Up and Down" lines with the stations, for a bit, before you merge back.

I must admit to taking my first break from the route this morning, to lug a load of concrete slabs from Taymyr Quarry to Zimnegorsk (Snowrunner!) with my big Kolob, just for a change of pace. However I have yet another 612 run part completed which I'll probably return to later... After dropping off the slabs which are currently stuck on a particularly sharp bend (hint: don't use articulated trailers in Zimnegorsk!).

 

Also +1 from me. While I’ve never been to Dresden or Chemnitz, my personal commuter line is similar (rural piece of track linking two major traffic hubs). The tracks are never “busy,” there’s always two trains per hour in each direction in addition to some freight for the last few kilometers. I rarely pass more than one or two trains per trip.

 

I try to play this one with RP 185.6 (January, Snow 70%) and NO CHANCE, 1.5% grade east of Flöha cancel my attempt.