The Big Problem With Ap Trains...

AP has been producing enhancement packs for TS since well before TSW came about, so that reasoning really doesn't hold up. Also, why would DTG care if AP is making money selling mostly enhancement packs. In order for the pack to work you need to buy the DTG loco in the first place.

 

mattdsoares there’s no reason, in a larger business, that you can’t have a smaller team of people focusing on higher quality output. Teams like that can be very profitable in a franchise and don’t divert much resource as well.Teams like that also up the image of the whole brand. There’s an equally valid case to be made that DTG aren’t employing as good developers or working on the quality of the product. You can have rubbish sounds or you can go the extra step and get decent ones. AP know their market as well. A good Class 411 is going to be popular with a core UK base. Why don’t DTG react to needs like that?

i think we all know that for DTG TS is a legacy platform that brings in revenue from old software. In fact focusing on the hard core base of existing users who would pay for new better content is exactly the way to play that sort of business situation.

 

If I were anything to do with DTG I'd want a piece of that action. Who knows then.... (shrug).

 

There are actually relatively few people working on TS1 stuff for TS - in fact it's now mostly 3rd party stuff that DTG just publish, and even when they do their own stuff, they often get 2nd parties, including AP, to do a lot of work.
I think it also has to do with how people treat AP, and when DTG actually tried making a very nice train in the Class 68, no one cared and instantly called for AP to do an enhancement pack. If I was DTG, I'd say "well what's the point". Also, AP and DTG cater for very different markets - AP target the hardcore enthusiasts, whereas DTG target more generally people who want to drive a train.

 

‘AP target the hardcore enthusiasts, whereas DTG target more generally people who want to drive a train’

When it is your legacy product (as you say there’s much more focus in TSW) who would you focus limited resources on? New, just want to drive a train people. - many of who are now console based - or the old hard core, will pay money, for good content crowd?

 

I'd base it off the skills of my team. It may be all the people who do the high detail stuff have moved to TSW in which case I'd have to keep it at relatively basic. I only know of one person on the TS1 team - and he's a route builder.

 

The focus for DTG is on TSW2 and playing the long game for future train sims and that makes sense.
Not sure if TSW is showing a profit but I'm pretty sure that TS is the cash cow laying the golden egg which finances TSW development.
Another point is that if DTG improved TS too much it would be competing with TSW.

 

I'd be surprised if it doesn't - apparently it's sold like hot cakes on console.

I wonder if AP's recent push of cramming more features into their trains is perhaps because of TSW, and they didn't want to lose out?

 

Perhaps this is a cynical outlook, but in a cornered niche market like this, there are diminishing returns beyond a certain level of quality. Will DTG sells more copies of X locomotive if the quality were AP level vs normal DTG level? If they did, would it be enough to offset the extra development costs? There is this general belief that higher quality = better business, but that's simply not true. Especially in this case where DTG is really the only game in town, once you hit a certain baseline of acceptable quality, it just doesn't increase sales enough to go all out.

 

They are getting a piece of that action. They're charging $20 USD for the loco that you need to buy if you want the AP enhancement to work. I get you're saying they could charge $40 if they just made it AP quality in the first place, but I do think you underestimate how many non-AP fanatics that would seriously turn off from buying it in the first place.

 

You maybe right... although why anyone wouldn't want AP stuff is beyond me. I know it's far from perfect, but I actually hate driving some of the DTG stuff now. (Yes, I know all non AP stuff isn't always DTG, but you know what I mean).

 

Well, I think an example can be that I've bought trains on sale because I wanted them for scenario requirements and maybe to drive once or twice, but otherwise would have had no interest. So I'm not going to drop 15 quid on an enhancement pack for a train that I know I'm not going to drive much. If it's a train I like and know I'll want to drive often, then I consider an AP pack.

 

Run it on the Mainline then

 

As a newcomer, I can relate entirely to this. If I never drove anything but the AP 37/40/205/411 again, I’d not feel I was missing too much

Many other trains are acceptable, but too many look like cheap cut outs.

 

Especially in this case where DTG is really the only game in town, once you hit a certain baseline of acceptable quality, it just doesn't increase sales enough to go all out’

where was the suggestion they ‘go all out’? AP aren’t using huge resources to achieve what they are doing. There’s a lot of DTG stuff in the back catalog that really isn’t anything like today’s standards. Yet the put it sale from time to time to sucker people in to buying stuff that has little utility beyond parking it in a siding for a scenario you’re building for color.

So by your reasoning having that substandard DLC works for DTG because you’ll pay $20 for an item because you need it to use the AP enhancement package on?

I also wonder just how much value DTG get out of the back catalogue. If you look on Steam some items haven’t even had a user review in six years or more. The Class 423 which was released in May 2012 hasn’t had a review since December 2014. Yet a third party can come along with a new feature rich Class 411 and make money?

DTG make terrible business decisions. In flight simulation they kept falling over themselves at every turn. Then on the train simulation side they released a new product and basically left a relatively healthy franchise (that they’d just updated to 64 bit) without any idea of how frame the two offerings to customers. While TSW does look better there’s an argument that the AP Class 411 on the old platform doesn’t underperform the TSW equivalents. And you can go more than 30 miles in it.

 

The team is probably no more than two or three people at this point, and other developers create content on their own, so it's basically free money for them at this stage. As you said, they talk a lot more about TSW, and it's disappointing that this seems to be where they want to focus. Console gaming is not as popular as it used to be because of all the subscription services console makers demand to play online (you can play online on PC for free, and even Nintendo has gotten into this accursed practice now), and PC tends to have games for lower cost, especially at sales. So you're better off getting a good gaming PC and graphics card and also doing your other work on the same device. This is why I am mystified that DTG is aiming at the console market. I would not play this game with a joystick. I can't believe they want to work primarily on the game that forces this.

Update the original game. We will surely buy the new core. Have those of us who own a bunch of DLC volunteer to test open betas for the updated versions to see if they work in the new game (heck, for those with large volumes, give them the new core for free to get those testers locked in), and release them in turn. Update the graphics as you churn them out. You don't have to pay us. Beta testing is never really paid. It's a good chance to rework the DLC landscape as well, by starting to package items together and making bigger DLC packages, too, and create a new contract that allows all existing content to continue to be sold regardless of license but only prohibiting creation of new content upon expiration. Honestly, that's what it SHOULD have been, so we didn't have the huge BNSF problem.
.

 

At this point TS has enough content where DTG can make many routes without the need to build new rolling stock for it.

If anything more resources should be focused on giving TSW more variety but keeping TS alive with a small trickle of new routes.

DTG's recent Class 142 was a bit pointless, we're now at the point where rolling stock is being duplicated. Such development time would have been better spent on making the same for TSW. Pacers on Tees Valley Line would suit well. Or instead of the LNER HST and Class 89 we could have had the Class 387 and 800 for an electrified Great Western Express, for example.

 

If all you want an AP product for is for AI, why not just swap out the required AP train for something else and run the scenario without having to spend any money?

 

I was doing in the video. I was referring to the ROUTE Peter... not the loco.

 

I may not have explained myself well. I meant that I will sometimes buy a DTG train on Steam on sale that I don't have interest in but want for AI and scenarios. In those cases, buying an AP pack makes little sense for me because I don't intent to drive it much or at all.

 

Same here.
I have not bought many AP units apart from those not available elsewhere
142, 313, 314/5 are those I purchased for the same reason to use as AI
But I did get a number of Sound Packs as those apply to the DTG version and Just Trains in the case of the Class 20 & 60

 

My big problem with AP trains was with the withdrawal of the 175, Yes I still have it in my AP downloads but what I can't get now is the branding and extra stock patches that were on the original 175's info page.
And I know I can chuck an extra £3 at them for the 175 v2 and have the branding and extra stock packs for that and I will indeed be getting it.
But I still have the 175 v1 without the 2 extra files.

 

Hey Pete re the passengers 3DZug have non mutant passengers in some of their DLC the Rheingold especially.

 

Submit a support request to AP. They've previously sent me the supporting files for withdrawn products.

 

Righto, will do, I had heard they wouldn't release currently withdrawn stuff elsewhere but I think that was in relation to a sound pack

 

I have managed to find numerous extra stock packs that I was after via:

https://web.archive.org/web/2020*/armstrongpowerhouse.com

Handy trick

 

Yes, always check the Internet Archive. A good place to look for old versions of pages. That's how I found the info on the old Canadian National pack that is now withdrawn, by going to the old official site URL.

 

I have sent AP a ticket so we'll see how that fares.

Had a look just to be nosey, guess which two files aren't linked go on have a guess..

 

If you think an AP MU is pricey, have a look at this

http://www.sherwoodmodels.co.uk/pre...58-2-car-dmu-158773-east-midlands-trains.html

 

That's about the going rate... I paid about 50 odd quid for my basic Lima 156 back in the day...!!!

 

For the love of...

Explain to me why anyone would obtain this.

 

You could stock up on DLC covering almost all of Britain for that price!

 

Or buy maybe two thirds of the AP catalog during a 40% off sale!

 

It's not really a fair comparison. They are different railway themed hobbies. It's a bit like comparing flying scale models with flight simulators.

 

I was thinking of this earlier, if DTG got the chaps from AP and/or SSS in on a consultancy basis to improve their sounds that could be good. But then, would those chaps want to come in and teach everyone how to sound good? (i.e. removing their USP). Part of it comes down to TSW2's sound engine though I think, which apparently tries to work out how it should sound and so seems to be intended to get "close enough". Then again, A2A and probably AP use dynamic sounds I think and still sound fantastic, so maybe there's a way.

I really like DTG, and am pleased to read Natalie's thread on how they are looking again at sound on SEHS, but yeah. Anyway, ramble over.

edit: That's it, get Scott from A2A in! He doesn't sell train simulation products so there's no conflict of interest

 

heh, did you try a few different dates? quite a few of the dates don't seem to have files. I have had some luck with July 30 2014. Not sure if that's too far back for you though.

 

I know, it’s just a bit of fun

 

It would take a lot of time to place the passengers individually and I don't know how to do that.

If you have a coach of the same design as the AP Coach you just tell it to use those passengers
But they layout has to match otherwise the people and the seats/tables does not line up.

Peter

 

If you have a model railway you want what you like to run on it.
More expensive than this game but then you don't loose anything because of a computer or hard drive crash

The seller chosen was one of the more expensive ones
https://railsofsheffield.com/produc...-158849-br-regional-railways-dcc-sound-fitted

 

Fair enough, not being of a technical mind such things aren't obvious to one.

 

Just an update to this, I had a response from AP and they provided me with links to my missing zips, GG's AP

 

I've noticed some reskins require older sound packs that are no longer available, eg Class 150/153/156,
Class 158/159, Class 365/465, Class 350/444/450.

I also did a search on wayback machine and found they had old sulzer sound packs for the class 24/25/26/27. (I have the Weardale & Teesdale network and think the those locos could really do with an overhauled sound set)

To be honest, I'd rather the sound packs because, some locos (like the class 92 for example) get a little bit of an enhancement thrown in too.

 

Also noticed that their class 60 and 421/422/423 sound pack has disappeared, I feel a new enhancement pack coming on (or at least the Class 60 sound pack to work with the class 60 that was just released)

 

When AP released new stock of those classes Sound Packs were withdrawn

 

Could be that AP are making new 421/422s or enhancement packs for 421/422/423, I'd prefer a totally new version.

 

Agreed a new version with Passengers would be welcome

 

Yeah that's very true. A limited number of people have the disposable to go and drop £150 on an AP sale. I've been simming with TSxx on and off since 2013 or thereabouts and still don't have the full catalogue. A lot of the time it's wagons (either theirs, or JT's) that I'm missing so I just have to F2 it and do without them.

I appreciate people pushing towards full realism with scenarios and trying to correctly encapsulate every moving part on a given railway section throughout a segment of time, but a lot of the requirements are things you'll actually see for a few seconds or so. And in one or two cases, being used as "blockers" so you don't even see them!

 

Or swap the stock out with TS Tools

 

Its worse when your local currency isn't in punds. I'm from Australia so our dollar is worth basically double what punds are.

 

One of the problems with AP sound packs is losing the join track sound when leaving the cab and then back in.
That is well known, but my question is why the problem occurs and why can't it be fixed or patched?
I also have to say that at the time I asked AP by email and they replied that they had no intention of fixing it and that it happened with their old packages, it is the only thing they answered me ..