The Br 101 Cab Car....

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by phips, Jan 15, 2021.

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  1. phips

    phips Active Member

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    As I found out that the upcoming BR 101 wont have the cab car... . I was really hoping for it, as it would make the IC usable everywhere and be much more authentic aswell.
    So I'd like to make the Suggestion, to maybe make a cabcar with the Help of Virtual Railroad or Rivet Games, as they already should have the missing References and Rivet Games is even working on a cab car for the IC. I would even pay a bit more extra just to have this, so I'd like to have your opinion on this, so we could maybe change DTGs mind.

    Source:
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/844344355?t=2h31m00s
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
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  2. Amax

    Amax Active Member

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    combien de minutes de la vidéo
     
  3. phips

    phips Active Member

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    From 2:31:00
     
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  4. Amax

    Amax Active Member

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    Thank you :)
     
  5. Snek

    Snek Well-Known Member

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    That's another dissapointing part of the upcoming 101. But what I'm really worried about is the fact that loco dlc have never provided service layers to other routes and I'm afraid HRR will be the only route to see 101 in service mode, which would be a huge loss. I'd much rather see it as a part of a new route that could utilise it's full potential (unlike hrr) and layer it on others as well.
     
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  6. phips

    phips Active Member

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    I think not using it on other routes is a big mistake, but I think DTG won't care. The BR 101 will sell very well, because its a BR 101... Even if there is still some potential lost and lack of support for different Routes
     
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  7. nberneck99

    nberneck99 Well-Known Member

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    Well I was very much looking forward to the cab car so that’s very disappointing.
     
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  8. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The thing you have to understand is that the db br 101 was put on hrr because it's the only route that the train runs on in real life with the IC Coaches. It was oringally planned to be put in ska but it doesn't run on that route in real life (as well as the 422 but that's a whole different topic) hence why it was put in hrr. It would be unrealistic to put that train in ska for example because it doesn't run on that route in real life therefore you would not be able to make a timetable for that route
     
  9. phips

    phips Active Member

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    Well, it does run on SKA as the IC 30 from Aachen to Hamburg Altona via. Köln HBF
     
  10. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    That's one service in the timetable though so it would not add anything to the route at all basically. I mean hey if you do want to use the 101 on ska, there's always the scenario designer
     
  11. box215

    box215 Active Member

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    what about the 182 and 155? they provide layers outside their base dlc (RT and RSN)
     
  12. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe this train can add a layer to munchen ausburg if it runs on it with a good number of services in real life
     
  13. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    I was excited for it, but I don’t get why it doesn’t have the cab car, when the MP36 add on did, no cab car means it will only be on HRR which you won’t be able to get any mileage out of the 101 on, so they should call this what it really is, a Scenario Creator DLC.
     
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  14. Snek

    Snek Well-Known Member

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    Not layers, just substitution. Layers add new services but 182 and 155 just use existing ones. The 101 can't subsitute anywhere as it's services are unique.
     
  15. phips

    phips Active Member

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    As Matt said, the cab car is at least as hard to make as the BR 101 itself. But I think to make this one of the best selling DLCs they should make it, as I can be used on almost all main lines in Germany.
    If this IC is really coming without the cab car, DTG should AT LEAST put two BR 101 in a Sandwich Formation on the IC
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
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  16. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

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    I just hope this gets some reconsideration as the preserved collection got...
    .. because the 101 could just get more ruined if the IC cars wouldn't be included. For those who are not familiar with german train formations: maybe there is a 101 pulling an IC without a cab car somewhere in germany at the moment. But I would not bet my money on it.

    It could have been a perfect addition for every german route with a little more effort put into it... instead it seems like another missed opportunity where a significant benefit to the gameplay is just wasted.
    Meanwhile I really can understand the frustration of many players who turned their back to TSW over the years...

    And like HMA went from a day one purchase to a 100% no buy because of the missing layers the 101 seems to be going into the same direction without any need.
    Now for me it would be in a sale (on xbox, good one :D) and only if a cab car would be included in some other DLC (only that theres no fitting loco for it since the 120 isn't in use for IC services anymore) which would still provide backwards compatibility. And this for the german #1 Intercity engine...

    Come on, you can do so much better than that! Give yourself a go, with a cab car and more addition to the DLCs the 101 is worth the price as a full route DLC and would still sell very well!
     
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  17. nberneck99

    nberneck99 Well-Known Member

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    I would only pay full price if it came with the cab car and intercity coaches. Ideally I’d want to be able to take it full speed on HMA, but I suppose that’s what the scenario is for.
     
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  18. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Their reasoning for it is ridiculous to be honest, usual DTG laziness, this is going to be something I buy on sale since there’s been as minimal effort as possible put into it.

    On your point about double ending the carriages, that would be a good alternative to the layering issue.
     
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  19. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    Matt said they will double end the 101s
     
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  20. Cyklisten

    Cyklisten Well-Known Member

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    Oh no :( I got really sad reading this. Not making the IC steering car together with BR 101 feels like doing just half of the job. Think if DTG would make East Coastway, but not letting it continue to Hastings. Oh... sorry. Maybe It would be better to just give it more time and release a bigger DLC with a dedicated route for BR101+IC with steering car and additional layers for HRR and hopefully HMA.
     
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  21. grob-e

    grob-e Well-Known Member

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    Actually, there are ICs with no cab cars, for example on the IC-Route 77 Amsterdam to Berlin, some other lines have been there too, before their IC-services were replaced by the IC2. Mostly on routes that don´t need to change direction on their way. Funny fact btw., there haven´t been cab cars on german long-distance trains before 1995. And the first services who got the cab cars have been the InterRegio, not the InterCity.
     
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  22. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

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    Of course you're right - I was overreacting in disappointment a bit. ;)
    nevertheless the cab car is used in most of the services and the 101 was put in service afterwards in 1996 :). Anyway lets hope for some reconsideration - TSW is too good to not give it a try.
     
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  23. Amax

    Amax Active Member

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    cela signifie ?
     
  24. phips

    phips Active Member

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    And by the way a drivable cab car would be a lot cooler, because for me its something that adds a bit of variety in the game. Like sometimes i drive the Loco oder sometimes the Dosto Cab Car (Right now always, as the sound of the Br 143 and the 146 sucks right now lol). Maybe this would keep player from getting bored too soon
     
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  25. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Imagine If we didn’t have the cab car with the dostos, that’s essentially what’s happening here.

    DTG are really pushing to see how much they can get away with no doing while maintaining sales.
     
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  26. rat7_mobile

    rat7_mobile Active Member

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    What is the IC cab car, and what does it look like ?
     
  27. KyleL

    KyleL Well-Known Member

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    unnamed (1).jpg images (1).jpeg It's a cab car used on the Intercity services that Deutsche bahn run
     
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  28. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    The other question is, does the 101 even come with IC wagons? Has that been confirmed anywhere? Cause I really fear it is going to be set-up as a freight loco (which actually did happen, so it is realistic, but that was a niche a long time ago...) and that's how it is in TS as well :/
     
  29. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Scenario Planner should at no point be an argument for DLC value. Right now it is very lacking at best and still, it would only sound like "buy this DLC with less content and create your own, thanks."
    This might be true, BUT we've already seen them do locos and cab cars in combined DLCs, so this excuse is nonsense. This way we should've never gotten the complete Baby Bullet because the "cab car was as hard to make as MP36".
     
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  30. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Could you tell me when he said that? Was it in the same stream he said there won't be a cab car and if so, would you happen to have a timestamp?

    Wait, what? The TS version is a freight loco? Ok, it's not like no Br 101 has ever pulled a freight train, but the Br 101 is hardly a freight loco and pretty much only pulls ICs.
     
  31. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    same place/same time as he confirmed the IC without the rear cab
     
  32. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    All I can find is him saying adding the Br 101 to HMA would require them to do top and tail services (is that the correct English term?), but doesn't say anything about it actually using that formation in the actual release.
     
  33. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    i'm not sure i don't actually remember if i heard it correctly apologies
     
  34. phips

    phips Active Member

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    Well the BR 101 was planned as a universal locomotive but nowadays its not allowed to pull freight anymore, as the frame of the loco started to bend. So not really realistic
     
  35. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Skipping through Matt's stream, he did say two coaches would come with the Br 101 which should mean IC coaches.
     
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  36. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    So probably a first and a second class type.

    I think the cab car does not come with the 101 due to lack of reference material. There is NO reason to not do the cab car. But lacking reference material (not just pics and sounds, but also technical details the simugraph needs to simulate it) is indeed a "good" point
     
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  37. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    What are the chances that the 101 will appear in timetables on new routes? So far I believe only substitutions were up cycled.
    This is just utter disappointment. It was my most anticipated loco dlc ever since I started playing tsw2020, but from what it appears to be now, it will be the most lackluster comparing to the actual potential it has. Taking a hit on the cab car is bad enough, but not seeing it on any other timetable but HRR makes me sad.

    And I say that HRR being one of my favorite and most played routes...
     
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  38. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    But we don't know that for sure. Let us not make a DLC bad before they even announced it properly.
    After the release we can really say if it is a good or a bad DLC.
     
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  39. w.lichko

    w.lichko Well-Known Member

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    I really really hope DTG can somehow fix this layers issue. The br 101 is a perfect fit for HMA.
    Tons of IC lines terminate in Munich, and there's loads of IC and EC traffic.
    From a business point of view, the 101 will sell and HMA is the most popular DLC alongside the LGV Med., at the moment (even with the unresolved layer issue), thus attracting more customers compared to HRR

    As of 2018 three V 60 series shunters can be found in Munich Hbf, although they hardly have anything to do. The main task is only to pull the retracted EC sets free so that the locomotive can also leave the platform track. Then the V60 shunts the passenger coaches back into the platform, where the locomotive then couples to the front. This unique service would be epic!
    3362904.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
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  40. Amax

    Amax Active Member

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    Oui c'est sur db br 101 have ic coaches
     
  41. rat7_mobile

    rat7_mobile Active Member

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    THank you for the information

    Correct me if I am wrong, but that just look like the locomotive found in most of the german rail set
     
  42. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    So that also means no bistro car between the two classes... this DLC is getting better and better...
     
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  43. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

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    To be honest many of them have been rationalized in RL anyway due to a decreased demand... that began about at the time when regional service - DMUs (BR 612) were painted white and used for IC services ;)
     
  44. BR125

    BR125 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder why they picked to do this DLC if they are half doing it and have limited themselves.....seems a odd choice.
     
  45. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Well, actually the 101 was specced, bid, designed, contracted and built explicitly as an express passenger loco to replace the clapped out 103s. For a while DB was hurting so badly for express locos they were forced to put 143s on IC services, even though they could't even make 160!

    Although the 101 has a certain evolutionary relationship (and visual similarity) to the TRAXX family, it is not a GP design like that one is.
     
  46. irFlouz

    irFlouz Active Member

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    From what I know, the 101 was ordered as a multi-purpose loco back in the Bundesbahn days for mainly replacing the 103s like you said, and cargo. Since the Bundesbahn was one big company, they would've been able to use it for both. However, the DB (Bundesbahn) and the DR merged into the DB AG which we know today, which itself is split into multiple own companies, DB Personenverkehr and DB Cargo. Therefore the locos can't easily switch between companies. But there have been a few cargo trains with 101s, in contract by DB Cargo.
     
  47. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    AIUI, the 120 was the GP locomotive, procured to replace the stalwart but ancient 110/140/141/150 family for freight and regional passenger duties. The 101 was a very expensive loco - speed doesn't come cheap - and I don't think was bought for lesser roles, although in a pinch natuarally like every other loco was probably pressed into service where needed.

    The 120 eventually came a cropper because of DBAG's reorganization, reducing sharply the demand for a multipurpose engine; by reunification, which provided a bunch of ex - DR 243s; and by the 120 being too lightly constructed for a freight engine so they wore out faster than expected
     
  48. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Does that mean that these days (when the TSW2 routes are set) the cab car isn’t as ubiquitous as is being made out in the thread and that most services are just the loco and coaches? There would be no need for shunters and running around if the trains had cab cars on the rear.
     
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  49. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Munich is a big station and receives a lot of traffic, from my understanding almost all the traffic which would involve the 101 between Munich and Augsburg includes a cab car, but there are many other trains, some might not be operated by DB which won't have push/pull capabilities.

    For example take a look at these videos taken at Augsburg.




    There was not one IC without a cab car, but there are some ÖBB EC hauled by an Eurosprinter that would need the V60 in Munich.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
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  50. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Ah, I see, if you pardon the pun.
     
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