The Class 150 Sounds…

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by londonmidland, Oct 21, 2021.

  1. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    2,626
    Likes Received:
    12,842
    With this being our first MK3 based DMU for TSW, I’m extremely disappointed Rivet have failed to get the Class 150 sounding decent.

    Upon departing Penzance, I immediately knew it didn’t sound right. There is absolutely no revving to the engine sounds. It simply sounds like they’ve used the idling sound with a little bit of variation for the engine notches. There’s just no grunt to it at all whatsoever. For reference, this is what it should sound like when departing.

    There is also very little ‘running’ sounds for the train whilst at speed, as well as no distinctive ‘rub’ sounds of the brakes, whilst braking.

    Unsurprisingly, Rivet said they won’t be changing the sounds of the engine once the route is up for release. The only thing they said was “We’re looking into it” which translates to me as they have no intention on changing anything.

    I found both DTG’s and Rivet’s attitude to authentic sounds very poor, as it seems getting the sounds accurate just isn’t a priority. Medals and achievements were put on the same importance as good sounds, for reference.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
    • Like Like x 49
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  2. Yorkshirelad

    Yorkshirelad Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2020
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    105
    +1 on all topics
    I frequently ride on the 150 and rivets excuse doesnt do it justice, its poor.
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  3. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2020
    Messages:
    415
    Likes Received:
    795
    I agree. Which I am hoping is why they pulled it. The sounds need a serious re-work for me to part with my hard earned cash.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  4. SprattyHeath

    SprattyHeath Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2018
    Messages:
    253
    Likes Received:
    871
    Truly shocking that they had the absolute balls to say that achievements had just as much importance as the accuracy of sounds... they seriously need to get their priorities right...
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
    • Like Like x 25
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  5. jamesthepershing

    jamesthepershing Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2019
    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    165
    Matt THIS IS A BUSINESS AND YOU'RE WASTING OPPORTUNITIES AND CUSTOMERS!!! Fgs talk about incompetence. If you want customers, make a 150 sound like a 150 and not like a broken 13th century lawnmower (aka a cow).
     
    • Like Like x 11
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  6. Yorkshirelad

    Yorkshirelad Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2020
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    105
    Also LM you should post this on the rivet shames forum too
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  7. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2019
    Messages:
    1,770
    Likes Received:
    2,628
    I'd like trophies and proper sounds. If they'd like my cash, that seems a fair deal.

    Take your time, Rivet. I can wait. :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  8. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    2,626
    Likes Received:
    12,842
    I’ve only ever used their forum once. I don’t use it because of their low traffic audience, as well as their lack of responses.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  9. jamesthepershing

    jamesthepershing Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2019
    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    165
    Fully and utterly flipping agree. Fgs..... They need some sense talked into em.....
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  10. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2020
    Messages:
    415
    Likes Received:
    795
    I agree and they can call us ‘purists’ or whatever they like, but the fact of the matter is, if they aren’t delivering on one of the most fundamental parts of building a loco / unit then they are going to lose money big time. It is up to us as a community to voice our feedback.

    It CAN be done - Class 31, 465, Class 45, even the 387 proves that it is possible to get a good sound mixed and implemented so no excuses. Just lazy corner cutting here.
     
    • Like Like x 8
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  11. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    2,626
    Likes Received:
    12,842
    Unfortunately what we’re hearing today is what we’ll get at release.
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  12. Yorkshirelad

    Yorkshirelad Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2020
    Messages:
    53
    Likes Received:
    105
    I dont think they even acknowledged the delay on there either
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  13. jamesthepershing

    jamesthepershing Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2019
    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    165
    They're always covering up with rubbish excuses. I've had it. If the 313 is rubbish, BYE BYE TSW.
     
    • Like Like x 8
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  14. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2020
    Messages:
    415
    Likes Received:
    795
    I won’t be buying then. Not even close to AP’s attempt that let’s face it is now well over 5 years old. Let alone close to real life.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  15. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2020
    Messages:
    415
    Likes Received:
    795
    well said :)
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  16. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    2,920
    Likes Received:
    3,895
    Say what you want, it won't change the fact it's true - people have actually decided they will not buy it simply because it doesn't support trophies on PS5. I remember some people were really irritated and even angry when finding out that progress from TSW2020 wouldn't transfer to TSW2, similarly (although on a lesser scale) between PS4 and PS5 in the summer.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  17. SprattyHeath

    SprattyHeath Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2018
    Messages:
    253
    Likes Received:
    871
    That is just unbelievable... clearly TSW2 was indeed aiming at a market more for the casual type player rather than the hardcore train enthusiast...
     
    • Like Like x 9
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  18. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    3,697
    Likes Received:
    5,521
    Poor sound and physics = no purchase from me. As has been noted in addition to the reference material Gary sent them, they could fire up a 150 in TS or even Open BVE for 10 minutes to see how they actually run.
    For Rivet to say they have no intention of fixing the sounds, DTG should fire them and take the route/150 in house to sort out and finish.
    The one consolation at not getting HST's on the main line was that at least we were getting a decent second gen DMU. Now we are not and as the posted screenshots show the route is distinctly lacklustre not even up to freeware standards, I wouldn't buy this even at 75% off, in its current state.
     
    • Like Like x 8
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  19. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    2,920
    Likes Received:
    3,895
    Of course it is! It's on consoles, it has collectibles, it has XP points.

    (for clarity - this is not to say people on consoles are all casual people who only care about achievements).
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
    • Like Like x 2
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  20. MrSouthernDriver

    MrSouthernDriver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2020
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    1,044



    i think the idle sound is alright but the running sounds are terrible
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  21. jamesthepershing

    jamesthepershing Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2019
    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    165
    Please just vote no to help raise awareness
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  22. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2020
    Messages:
    415
    Likes Received:
    795
    Yes exactly. Good point. I am currently as we speak playing with the AP 150 in TS and literally night and day compared with Rivet. I really don’t get their attitude at all.

    I agree with DTG taking over it. They aren’t perfect but the projects that they have included AP sounds like the 465 and BR class 31 have some amazing results. I’d fully support that option and if the sounds were re-done properly I’d even pay £30 for the 150 on its own…. Would be worth every penny if it sounded like the AP 150 I am using right now
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  23. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    2,920
    Likes Received:
    3,895
    They wouldn't do that even if they wanted to. There's absolutely no precedent for it and it'd not instill confidence in any prospective 3rd parties (and I'm speaking as someone who'd like to develop for TSW as a 3rd party). It wouldn't necessarily have the effect you want long-term, I don't think.

    I'm not aware of any authors who've written a book, gone to a publisher who said yes, then decided it wasn't very good, removed the author's rights to work on the book further, removed the author's name, and then the publisher re-wrote it themselves.

    Also how can you fire someone you've not employed?
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  24. Ben_Broomfield

    Ben_Broomfield Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2018
    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    282
    Im quite disappointed (to say the least) that Rivet won’t be attempting to act on the poor mixing of sounds for the 150/2.

    I work constantly with these units while at work and the example presented in Rivets route doesn’t present the 150/2 as good as it *should* be, especially with the source gathered from AP. It’s disappointing, as this unit could be presented so much better but obviously this isn’t a priority…

    It’s a stunning 150/2 model, degraded by the lacklustre mixing!

    I appreciate that they’ve noticed that the community ain’t happy, but I hope this ain’t a case of it being noted and being ignored for good (which happens too often!)

    As for achievements being more of a priority than actual sounds; I honestly don’t see how it even compares. The “next-generation” of train simulation, I thought would include a high focus on getting the sounds somewhat decent?!
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
    • Like Like x 4
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  25. xblackwolf90

    xblackwolf90 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2020
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    493
    The sounds are the main reason I won't be buying this DLC.

    It's a shame, as the 150 model looks stunning. Unfortunately, Rivet's releases all follow the same pattern; great looking rolling stock, very poor sounds. The 38 stock on Bakerloo was another perfect example.
     
    • Like Like x 9
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  26. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    4,064
    Likes Received:
    8,126
    No the sounds are really not acceptable. The actual AP sounds sound amazing, not sure how Rivet messed them up, but hopefully AP or DTG can help them sort it out (quickly).
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  27. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2020
    Messages:
    555
    Likes Received:
    1,147
    I completely agree. This isn't even a route I'm particularly interested in, nor is it a time period I particularly care for, but I was still excited for it because we were finally getting the 150 in TSW2. This is the only train that serves my local station and as such I was very hyped and wanted for the distinctive sounds to be spot on. But of course they're not.

    It's one thing for the sounds to be below par but what really made me want to stay away from this route for the foreseeable future was the attitude Matt and Jasper had towards it on the stream. Jasper simply saying "we're looking into it" may as well be code for "we're not gonna do anything about it". If they're looking into it then they should say what steps they're taking to fix it. Are they finding more reference material? Working closely with AP? Just something to show that they're taking the issue seriously. Matt exacerbated things by going on to talk about achievements instead. I get that achievements are also something that need to be fixed, but talk about them later in the stream after you've addressed the criticisms first. I found it quite insulting how he just brushed the questions about sound aside, made it seem like he either didn't care or simply didn't want to answer them.

    This combined with the lack of a 47+ Mk2 set (I know TSW2 doesn't yet have the appropriate Mk 2s, but with how well Rivet modelled the 150 I have faith they'd do a good job on these) for intercity services on the route make me want to stay away from this route, at least for the time being. I wonder if I'm being too harsh, but as I said, the 150 is a train that means a lot to me, perhaps even more than the HST.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  28. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2018
    Messages:
    1,689
    Likes Received:
    1,589
    With the sounds being there in files, just not mixed well. Could a sound modder beat them to it?
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  29. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    2,626
    Likes Received:
    12,842
    It all depends on which sounds they have actually used and utilised from AP.

    Bad mixing severely limits what you can mod, as its the actual set up of how the sounds are played and when activated, as opposed to the sounds themselves.

    Long story short, replacing the sound files will most likely not fix the issue.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 4
    • Like Like x 2
  30. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    3,697
    Likes Received:
    5,521
    Maybe not in the literal sense but they are a contractor and if the work isn't up to the agreed standard surely that is a breach? If you're making stuff to sell at the prices this DLC retails for, then you've got to get it right and that also means you know you can deliver. If I were DTG after the catalogue of debacles (Arosa, 1938, now this) I would think twice before either outsourcing to Rivet or accepting any project they might offer up.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  31. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2017
    Messages:
    589
    Likes Received:
    1,301
    I understand that there's casual players out there and I have nothing against them, however, the idea that trophies/achievements are more important in a Train Simulator than sounds is absolutely crazy to me. I play the game like it's a sim because that's how I enjoy playing the most, and accurate true-to-life sounds play a crucial role in my enjoyment of the game. Even for a casual player, I'm going to assume that they also play TSW because they enjoy simulating driving different types of trains. Sounds are still part of that enjoyment even if you don't care/know about sound accuracy for a particular train. I understand that achievements can be fulfilling in the game, but that's not where I think most player's enjoyment comes from when playing. I don't know anyone who speedruns TSW for the sole purpose of getting the achievements
     
    • Like Like x 9
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  32. bdlhouston#8691

    bdlhouston#8691 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2021
    Messages:
    106
    Likes Received:
    145
    It sounds good when it isn't moving, but otherwise it definitely isn't good enough
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  33. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2019
    Messages:
    701
    Likes Received:
    756
    Hello, what did Matt actually say on stream,... did he really say "sounds are as important as trophies" ?

    As a ps4 player maybe he has market analysis that proves this point, after all according to Sam via dovetail live they can track everyone's objectives and how they are driving routes in order to chase down certain aspects of the game.

    Devil's advocate and all that pc people, sounds are important and well trophies provide a mechanic for game progress but I am in the minority over on the console threads, ...

    However take note Matt said the other night they are 1 or 2 slipped dlc in timings wise from sacking people, most likely as Sam indicated comms staff first then preservation crew so there must be a method to the madness... most likely... fingers crossed

    P.s still looking forward to the 150, hopefully Matt and Co can box rivets ears into shape, must admit only watched first 5mins and the jasper looked really timid before his "I might have to go pick up a friend" bit was disclosed... (as you do after a mess up and your social media channel going blank)...
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  34. Chandler721

    Chandler721 New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2021
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    10
    I think that TSW2 has been poor in terms of quality for DLC’s…… There’s always problems with things which get released.

    It’s such a shame that things like this keep going on. I was so excited for this route and for a 150/2 to finally come across to TSW. The 150/2 train is my favourite train.

    There has been lots of community feedback prior to the release, so it amazes me how this feedback isn’t being fixed.

    Sounds are one of the most important aspects to simulation in my opinion and for these to not even be sorted for the final release is absolutely terrible. Infact it’s shocking.

    If other users in the TSW community can modify sounds and things for this game to make things better, then why can’t developers do this?
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
    • Like Like x 4
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  35. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2020
    Messages:
    555
    Likes Received:
    1,147
    My guess is it's because those people are passionate, while for the developers it's a job at the end of the day. It's probably more complex than that though.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  36. volvolover1972

    volvolover1972 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2017
    Messages:
    589
    Likes Received:
    1,301
    That’s not why. Matt has said many times that nearly all the of the team, including himself, working on TSW are passionate about trains and the game. The real reason is that devs in a company have deadlines and operate like a business. When the community does mods, they are almost always doing it on their own time, are not getting paid, have no pressure to finish by a certain date, and don’t have to deal with the business side of things like licensing.
     
    • Like Like x 7
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  37. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2020
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    411
    So according to your reply, a half arsed attempt is good enough. Great.. many more crap DLC to follow...

    My point being that developers can do it properly but the ones building/creating it can't?
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
    • Like Like x 5
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  38. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    4,064
    Likes Received:
    8,126
    To be fair to Rivet, they haven’t said they have no intention of fixing the sounds. Just that they won’t be fixed in time for release.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  39. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2020
    Messages:
    551
    Likes Received:
    1,818
    I like to see the reaction to the bad sounds lately, both with class 150 and BR 187. It's about time the developers realise that this is something very important to the players and that we won't tolerate such mediocre work from now on.
    Everyone can do what they want with their money but if anyone buys this thinking they're going to fix it later they're probably wrong given Rivet's track record. Being cautious here is probably the wisest thing to do, and wait until they really fix it to open your wallet. I learned this lesson well with Arosa.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  40. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2020
    Messages:
    4,064
    Likes Received:
    8,126
    Matt said that they get into trouble from Sony et al for not having trophies that function. I want every trophy I earn, but accurate sound is a must for me.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  41. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2020
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    411
    But nobody will account for the poor sounds. DTG and RIVET always try to dodge the bullet and that is what I am sick of. You watched the stream, they kept avoiding it.
     
    • Like Like x 8
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  42. bigcat4

    bigcat4 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2020
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    38
    Sorry to say it, but I agree that the sounds are just not good enough. I’ve been refunded by MS and will not buy again when it’s re-released unless the sounds of the engine and track sounds are fixed. Just listened to a video of the 150 on TS and the engine sounds glorious in comparison. It can be done, we’ve seen it with other locos in the game!
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  43. thatleedsguy#8590

    thatleedsguy#8590 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2021
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    207
    Short answer: No.
    Longer answer: No, not acceptable. If you have sounds from AP who do a bang up job getting and implementing them into their own content, you should be able to use them correctly. Yes, Rivet didn't do the 465, but they were used brilliantly. What went wrong this time?

    Making sure your game actually works is priority number 1.
    Sounds are easily in the top 10 things to get right.
    Achievements and trophies? Priority number 9,994, imo.
     
    • Like Like x 7
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  44. Rich_84

    Rich_84 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2019
    Messages:
    54
    Likes Received:
    45
    If you ever travelled on a 483(38 stock) in real life on the Island Line, you'll know the virtual 483 sounds rubbish compared to the real thing & Rivet have done nothing to improve the sounds.

    I doubt very much Rivet will do anything to the sounds of the 150.
     
    • Like Like x 7
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  45. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2020
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    411
    Seriously now though, how can we raise this further. Think about how many people have complained about the sounds. Surely there is a way for us to actually get them to sort this? Any ideas?
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  46. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2020
    Messages:
    1,431
    Likes Received:
    1,297
    The sounds certainly aren't correct and it seems the physics are off too, as mentioned in other threads.
    The AP sounds for the 150/1 and 150/2 on TS are pretty much spot on, as are the physics.
    Over on TS, you can hear the rev up as the torque converter fills which is an essential part of the immersion, yet here in TSW, the supposedly better train simulator, it is missing.
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  47. thatleedsguy#8590

    thatleedsguy#8590 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2021
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    207
    Petition, perhaps?
    Or show that sounds are important by highlighting how many people won't buy it until it's in an acceptable state?
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  48. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2020
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    411
    I'm 100% up for that, how does 1 go about this. How do all of us here get this done?
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  49. thatleedsguy#8590

    thatleedsguy#8590 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2021
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    207
    On the petition, I'm not certain but I have a general idea. Someone would have to create one using some website and then share the link to sign it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  50. thatleedsguy#8590

    thatleedsguy#8590 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2021
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    207
    Can I just follow up on this gem of a quote?
    It was said (not verbatim as putting in the ums and stutters is painful) on-stream that 'Achievements are a very binary thing. Whereas sounds are not. It's difficult to see what sounds look like on a good-o-meter'.

    Well, considering AP do great work in the sounds department and it's been said many times...considering AP probably have rave reviews...considering the 465 for one went down so well in the sound department...considering we kept asking for better sounds...
    It would look 'very good' on the 'good-o-meter'.

    You can't please everyone, but you can please many with getting it right.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Helpful Helpful x 1

Share This Page