The Class 150 Sounds…

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by londonmidland, Oct 21, 2021.

  1. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    As I said earlier, they are the equivalent of Session Musicians for train simming. Turn up, play the chords, then go home with the paycheck.
     
  2. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    There is passion, i would like to see more from rivet, they just have to improve their sound politics. That isnt gonna stop me from buying because there are many impressive things too.
    A new cl37 livery with a nice route. Just because there is not much variety in layers there doesnt mean its not enjoyable. Still possible a dlc comes out with additional services like cl47.

    To me it sounds your life is gonna be handicaped because of the 150. Calm down and take a step back.
     
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  3. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    [

    There is also a certain amount of trust for these companies. We both know the 150 well but if you didn’t you’d be putting your trust in the company to faithfully recreate that model. I’m driving the Class 31 at the moment and it looks, drives and sounds amazing but I don’t know it as well as other lcoos so I have to put my faith that DTG represented it accurately. ( it certainly feels good but I can’t be certain )

    Essentially what Rivet have done is break that trust in essence.
     
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  4. A Very Rapid Goat

    A Very Rapid Goat New Member

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    Off topic, but with respect, I need to call you up on this. I get the point you’re trying to make about Rivet Games, but that statement about session musicians is completely untrue and incredibly disrespectful. They’re some of the most hard-working people in the music industry and work their arses off for their profession. They know far more than most big names do (and certainly more than myself), but get very little in return. There’s absolutely no comparison to Rivet Games.

    Before you ask, I am qualified to comment on the matter.
     
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  5. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Change Session Musicians to read Ronin, then!
     
  6. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    When I first looked at this Loco I thought 'that looks good. I will buy that' but then once you get into the sounds it isn't quite right. It is obvious that Rivet's priority is the Loco which is fine but where on the list do they put sound?
     
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  7. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    In the patch 6 months later :o
     
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  8. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    AP doesn't work with Unreal. The sound engine for TS1 is utterly different.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2021
  9. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Surely AP are familiar with TSW2 as they have provided sounds no? If not I'm sure they can learn. The impression from these forums I get is that AP inspire more confidence when they or their sounds are included that not. If they could mix as well I'm sure confidence would go up.
     
  10. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    AP simply provide sound files, which are engine-independent: MP3s or high-res equivalents. Mixing however is very much a function of the engine, and to the best of my knowledge AP have never done it in TSW or any other Unreal-based app. That's up to DTG or 3rd-party studios to do themselves, because AP is perfectly happy staying in TS1-world.
     
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  11. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I think at this point we need to sit back to wait and see what happens on release date.

    DTG and Rivet seem to be maintaining a stony silence on the matter despite this extensive thread and references elsewhere in the forum.
     
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  12. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Of course they are happy with staying where they are because they have no incentive to do otherwise. DTG would have to have AP as part of DTG. I have no idea how much money they are throwing at their sound department but I think it is fair to say they do struggle at times with the sound. Whether it would be cost effective to get AP as part of DTG I'm not sure but I'd say in the long run it would be.
     
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  13. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    No way it's gonna be fixed that fast, if ever.
     
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  14. roysto25

    roysto25 Active Member

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    There are an lot of people on this thread stating their intention never to buy from Rivet. Why are you wasting your (presumably ) limited time on repeatedly saying so? Once (with reasons) is enough - after that, your actions are counterproductive and simply boring those (we are simmers - we can't help it) who hope Rivet and DTG are listening to constructive criticism.
     
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  15. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if you know how forums work. If one or a handful of people posted about a bug they would get ignored but if say 50 people started raising issues it would get addressed. DTG have already said this is how they choose routes for example.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2021
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  16. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    What dhekelian said, plus this:
    I liked Rivet's products for TS, so I immediately bought the 204 when it came out for TSW. Let's just say I wasn't impressed. When IOW was released, I bought it. I wanted to support Rivet, hoping they'd slowly learn how to do stuff in TSW. With the 204 timetable they proved they don't care about the main new thing of TSW, but I was hoping all they needed was time. Then came Arosa. I was really happy: finally something different, with interesting stock and a peculiar route. Imagine the gameplay possibilities! So I went ahead and pre-ordered it. Oh boy what a s*it show it was (AND STILL IS). The train kept derailing, but Rivet claimed it was all ok, prototypical and stuff like that. Rather than admitting they screwed up, they came up with a made up braking procedure which, according to them, was used by RhB. It was Matt who had to explain to us they messed up the physics of the buffers and other stuff. That was fixed, so now the train was drivable, but the timetable was still severely messed up. You are 20 minutes late on the second stop... Plus there is no freight. Rivet has been promising fixes for it for a long time, yet it is still bugged. Then comes rush hour, and with it the Arosa loco started jumping. It leaps forward when starting. Still no fix for that either, the route is once more unplayable. I don't care about distant scenery, but some people find it underwhelming.

    Then out comes the 38 stock for the Bakerloo. Once more we have a lousy timetable and guess what... The train is still slipping when taking off from a standstill. Just like IOW. They never learn. But this time I was smart, I didn't buy it.

    Then there's this DLC. A long time passed before they announced the stock, only for it to be just one train. Underwhelming, but still, it's a new route. Turns out the transmission of the train is wrong. Just like with the 204! Guess what, they didn't learn.

    Rivet keeps releasing bugged content, sometimes even unplayable, without aftercare. This is BS. Such a company should not exist.

    So yes, I know fanboys will keep throwing money at Rivet, but by constantly writing about what they do I hope to save other people from wasting money.

    We are talking about a lying company with terrible PR, appalling customer support, releasing money grab DLC.
    Rivet deserves no support at all.

    Think about the Cathcart route: Rivet's participation was made public only at a later date. DTG clearly feared it would impact sales. They make good looking trains, but that's about it.

    Edit: almost forgot. The 204 sound is screwed up, the Arosa sound is bad, especially the running sounds of the coaches. Same goes for the 150.
    Three locos with bad sounds, two slipping when starting from a standstill, bad timetables everywhere. I honestly do not understand how you guys can even think about supporting such a company. They just never learn because they don't need to: people keep buying their stuff anyway!
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2021
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  17. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Add to that the 1938 stock, the sound is ghastly.
     
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  18. A Very Rapid Goat

    A Very Rapid Goat New Member

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    Actually, looking back, I probably sounded a lot more confrontational/harsher than I meant to.
     
  19. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    No worries mate! As I'm tone deaf added to which neuropathy has dashed any hopes of learning to play the electric guitar* in my retirement, I take any decent music I can get, when I'm not playing trains that is!

    * So I never will learn how it magically switches from heavy harsh riffs one second to that beautiful melodic almost harp like sound the next. Sorry for OT digression...
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2021
  20. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    You made a good point, and i can understand people dont want spend money on rivet anymore from a perspective.

    Here my short version why i keep supporting them:

    - in all released dlcs i do also enjoy many things, yes those bugs and inaccuracies sucks, but i dont see this as "black and white" only.

    - even if the 150 would be an entire fail, im happy to get a nice route and a different cl37 with 2 new wagons. I dont enjoy driving inaccurate trains either, but with scenario planner 2.0 we can use them at least for ai trains.

    - there are just not many 3rd party devs for tsw2, so what rivet is doing is not perfect, but far away from stuff like that they shouldnt exist. We are not forced to buy anything

    - beeing a good software creator and a train expert to the same time is just not realistic. Yes rivet should involve more people worked in real life with the content they are producing, so they get feedback.

    When it goes into the very specifics of train details about bogies, transmissions & traction motors and top compartments, its just being "lost in space", especially with different countries involved.

    Ironicly the fact Rhb use adhaesion brakes only on their trains is true. They operate on one of the steepest gradients without using a gear, so due their center buffer electric braking with the loco could cause a derailment on those gradients, thats fact.

    My conclusion is, we as a community should have high expectations about quality and accuracy, but when devs make mistakes, this doesnt make the entire product bad.
     
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  21. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    I think it would be more appropriate for DtG to rename it to T Game W2 Rather than T Sim World2, then it doesn't matter because it won't be a "simulator".
    "A simulation is the imitation of the operation of a real-world process or system over time"
    I also do not understand why people would support a company that produces sub-par products; if people say it supports up-and-coming devs then surely that just emboldens them to continue to sell kak?
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2021
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  22. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    The witching hour approaches everyone, here are your timetable of events;

    At 4 - 5pm today railfan TV will be announced with the usual "have a good weekend etc"

    On the schedule will be a slot for the 4th called "let's play wcl" with Matt, Sam and Jasper (who has to leave halfway through the stream again, or at least before q and a ;) )

    The 4th will arrive, wcl will release to a muted response but within tolerance for profit

    &

    Finally the sounds will not be changed, everyone gets paid, all mortgages get squared away for another month and the world will keep spinning.
     
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  23. diesel power

    diesel power New Member

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    The most important problem here is customer treatment. As humans, we are prone to making mistakes, yes. But we should realize these mistakes and correct them as much as this possibility exists. rivet games has simply shown that they dont care for their customers and the bugs of their Dlc's . I was looking forward for tthe class 150 dmu, but there is no way i am getting it unless they change their attitude and care for their customers and fix the bugs . sounds and physics are completely unacceptable
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2021
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  24. roysto25

    roysto25 Active Member

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    You missed my point - 50 people raising issues is fine. One raising the same issue 50 times is counterproductive. Having said that, I feel the frustration with major QA failures. DTG is failing, partly because of the timeline for applying fixes (especially for consoles), in the following - making errors is normal and unavoidable; the outstanding companies impress by the recovery.
     
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  25. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the latter part of your message totally. And I can somewhat agree with the same issue being repeated might get tiresome but the way DTG seem to operate is the more a problem is reported the more likely it is to be fixed no?
     
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  26. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    Wow! I hope you don’t play The Sims ;)
     
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  27. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Is the Total War series a military sim? Yes. Is it scrupulously accurate? No. There is always going to be a certain mimetic distance. Nobody doubts that Run-8 is a sim, but its graphics are a long, long way from realism.
     
  28. flghttrainsm#6320

    flghttrainsm#6320 Member

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    Rivet uploaded a new video to YouTube , community update , From the video it's not looking good it appears there priorities are putting nice shinny things in like in video Jasper showed off a train wash , no mention anything else or admitting they screwed up the sounds and physics or that it's out of their depth. I commented on video and advise everyone else too
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2021
  29. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    It is ridiculous how they’re trying to promote a flipping train wash when the 150/2 is so so broken!!! :(
     
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  30. flghttrainsm#6320

    flghttrainsm#6320 Member

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    It's beguiling I'm starting to think this dlc was was just made for casual players who even don't even go on trains or care what a train sounds like or moves like just to make a quick buck . also after 2 years since tsw released I'm at point now where I'm gettjng the impression it was made for the casual player , so screw simmers lol if so rename it to train game world and give us a tsw2 professional edition at higher price with Pro model locos with real as can be sounds , physics more simulated systems that we can buy separately on pc and simmers on console too
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2021
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  31. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Your hope is realised, I do not or ever will play them.
     
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  32. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    I can't speak for either as I do not own them, I wonder though if the sonic landscape is simulated accurately though in both games?
    BVE didn't have accurate graphics however the sounds and physics were which meant my satisfaction using BVE was greater than TSW2, it isn't always about shiny graphics over everything else.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2021
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  33. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Run 8 has excellent sound.
     
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  34. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Well-Known Member

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    ap?
     
  35. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    I am glad he apologised for the session musicians dig. Let me enlighten you all into our world. I am a session musician - well I do many things, but session work is one of them and I can assure you, myself and every other musician I’ve known are 200% passionate about what we do ( of course there are exceptions ). I myself have over 20,000 hours of playing, practice, experience clocked up so far and I’m only 37. ( been professional since I was 13 ). I don’t just go in and play a few chords. Trust me. For every minute of music you hear in a performance, there’s usually 10-20 hours of practice preparation that goes into it. Then there’s travel, equipment, lesson cancellations to do the gig etc etc

    I am musical director for several musical theatre companies, and after every rehearsal ( which is sometimes 6 days a week ) I then go home and spend another 2-3 hours into the night writing up, correcting things, trying to make things flow better, rearrange stuff, prepare stuff for the orchestra, sometimes we’ll into 1am / 2am in the morning. ( all of which is UNPAID ) I do it because I want it to be the very best it can be…. No other reason. I am not the only one - musicians in general LOVE their job and make it look easy, but what you don’t realise is the amount of hard graft that has gone in to getting to the point of ‘making it look easy’ - we had to practice 4-6 hours a day at Royal College of Music, otherwise we’d fail. Simple as that!

    No, rivet is in no way to be compared to a musician - they don’t even come close.
     
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  36. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Sorry chap, haven't got a clue what you mean by "ap".

    If you mean where can you find Run 8 I don't think it's permitted to post links to a competitor product so you just need to Google "Run 8 Train Simulator".
     
  37. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    So there's no such thing as a "bad session musician" just because you believe you are not one...?
    Maybe that's Rivet's issue. They think they're great so there can't be anything bad in "their world"
     
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  38. Trainiac

    Trainiac Well-Known Member

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    PC players aren't the only ones who want an accurate simulation. Tbh I know it might not seem like it but every player is different and wants a different experience. Now that doesn't mean they should only cater to casual players because they definitely shouldn't, the focus should be on making it as real as can be, and I certainly want a better simulation even though I'm on console, but you shouldn't generalise the entire console community as casual and people who care less about the simulation because of the platform they're on.
     
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  39. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    There are definitely bad musicians out there…. But professionally speaking this is rare. As soon as they don’t deliver they never work again.
    I have the awards, cups, trophies, a degree and diploma from the finest college of music in the world AND 3 sets of letters after my name to *know* I am not a bad musician. We were trained to be the best of the best. However, no one is perfect. I always strive to IMPROVE and do the best job possible. Let me assure you I am NEVER fully satisfied with anything I do, and always try to do better next time. It is a psychology that was drummed into us at college. ‘Nothing is ever good enough’

    That’s what sets us apart.
     
  40. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I've been around enough musicians to know there are some VERY bad ones out there, performing every week...
    But as an analogy I don't think this swings very well. Some people think they themselves sound great when they don't, others may tell them they're good or even great when they aren't
    The same likely applies to Rivet. They may not see an issue with what they've put out but the 150 doesn't sound or handle right. I'm just hoping they don't try a 158 next else I might have an issue
     
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  41. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Well, I wouldn't hold yer breath.
     
  42. flghttrainsm#6320

    flghttrainsm#6320 Member

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    Yeah I get what you mean , I'm sure there are consoles players who want more simulation, the majority are on pc though , I should of put on console aswell as there players on other platforms that want realistic in depth simulation too I do apologize , my point was a professional version for those that want as realist simulation as possible
    With all causal stuffed removed , keep the traversal as that's realistic, getting onvand off trains like irl and create pro series locos that are realistic as possible for like £20-25 each if it's excellent quality people who care about realism ,will pay that look at the ap 150/2 is £ 19.99
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2021
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  43. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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  44. conniethunder

    conniethunder Well-Known Member

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    Were these the bugs that needed fixing?
    ...The train washer wasn't working and was modelled incorrectly. :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2021
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  45. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    And the sounds were wrong.
     
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  46. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Apparently they sampled the train washer sounds from Hotpoint.
     
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  47. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    I heard beko
     
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  48. Geth_2234

    Geth_2234 Well-Known Member

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    There have been some major improvements to the route in general and "tweaks" to the audio I will rethink whether to purchase or not will be interesting to see what these "Tweaks" are in the stream on Thursday.
     
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  49. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn’t get too excited if you’re expecting any significant improvements or changes - “There have also been tweaks to the Class 150/2's audio - although we stress these are tweaks, rather than wholesale changes.”
     
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  50. WaveyDavey

    WaveyDavey Well-Known Member

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    Just seen a Rivet "3 days to go" video on Facebook with a 150 driving past......

    Unmuted the audio and......... "This video has no sound" message.



    It's not looking good.
     
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