1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

The End Of Tsw?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Digital Draftsman, Aug 28, 2018.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. JoeTransit

    JoeTransit Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2018
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    90
    Wow, this thread sure has generated a lot of contradiction. I honestly think that TSW is a work in progress and I am optimistic about the future. Sure, there may be bugs as there are with virtually all other games including Train Simulator 20xx. TSW is like a lump of clay and it just needs to be molded and fine-tuned a bit more. Then, it will be pretty much on par with TS20xx.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 8
  2. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    657
    Likes Received:
    1,994
    Which is fine, until you take a customer's money in exchange for a pot and then had them a lump of clay. It's supposed to be a finished a game, it's not a beta or early access. The signalling on RT, GWE and NEC doesn't work properly, yet they don't fix those problems, they move on to the next DLC whilst continuing to sell the broken DLC.

    In any other area you wouldn't accept it, so why when it comes to video games do people permit themselves to be ripped off? If you ordered steak and fries and it arrived without the fries you would ask for a refund. If you purchased a car which broke down as you drove it away from the dealership, you'd go back and ask for your money back. But when DTG advertise a DLC in which you can 'master the unique signalling system' and you buy it only to discover said signalling system is broken, your reaction is 'it just needs to be molded and fine-tuned a bit more'. No, it needs to be put right with the highest priority or else compensation of some form issued.

    If you let them get away with leaving previous DLCs broken they will keep on shipping broken DLCs. If they keep shipping broken DLCs then people will stop buying them and TSW will end up like Flight Sim World. This doesn't just go for DTG, this goes for all games developers. People need to start holding them to account.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 7
  3. cActUsjUiCe

    cActUsjUiCe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2017
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    624
    The upper management have already dictated the pace. That pace with the current staff doesn't give much leeway when it comes to fixing issues in previous DLC. Quick fixes are one thing, but very involved fixes that require multiple people (signals) are a different beast entirely.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 4
  4. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2018
    Messages:
    1,013
    Likes Received:
    1,484
    The hope is still valid if DTG updates things. As far as I know, nobody can update their hamburgers. DTG can update their DLC. Oh, you wanted [fries/signalling]? That can be fixed.

    Alas, we know all too well the problem with this argument. Unfortunately, they are developing things at much too fast a pace to actually go back and update stuff. Fortunately, an editor is coming which will allow the community to help with certain aspects.

    That might not sound very helpful at first- the editor we get can't edit existing routes. But once third parties start making their own routes, Dovetail can do what they do with TSxx and let them develop stuff. Now, there's moire developers to go around, and each team has to release DLC a lot less often. Then they have time to profit off of DLC and fix bugs. This business model has proven to be successful when you look at TSxx, which, while still buggy, is often more polished than TSW (personally, though, TSW is polished enough that I already prefer it over TSxx). Theoretically, better DLC will lead to better sales, so there is an economic reason to do this.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  5. JoeTransit

    JoeTransit Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2018
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    90
    Well, albeit the fact that there are errors in the game, are you really going to let it outweigh the other side of the balance? For one, there is the pro of it actually being a game with hard work being put into it, regardless of error. The list continues far beyond that of the negatives. So, I would please ask of you to not be so pessimistic about TSW. I'm not trying to silence your freedom of speech or anything. I'm simply trying to show you that not everything is as it seems and that, although pages of a book may repeat themselves, it wouldn't be a book at all without new chapters. I hope I've compelled you in the slightest bit, at least. I bid you all adieu and good night/evening/day! :)
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 5
  6. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    I am of the opinion that your post demeans the legitimate concerns people have for the life of the product, both in terms of its continued and possibly improving quality, and its replayability. I hope that wasnt your intention?
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  7. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2018
    Messages:
    312
    Likes Received:
    466
    cActUsjUiCe ‘The upper management have already dictated the pace.’ Maybe, but that’s a guess, and didn’t someone say that Matt P. said there was no pressure?

    Now DTG have talked about a learning curve and given the impression that routes are taking longer to produce then planned. It’s another guess, but a reasonable one, that deadlines (both in terms of release and sales targets) were set that they’ve struggled to meet. That’s rather less a management dictate, but a normal business outcome. Maybe there were misjudgments throughout the company about how much work was involved. The real world solution to that is to either a) add more or better resources b) move to more realistic timeframes and/or c) identify root causes like testing and fix them. Carrying on, hoping things will get better is rather a roll of the dice, a strategy but arguably not a very clever one.

    Now look at the problem from a management point of view. If Digital Draftsman is right the sales are woeful. You’d look at why, and some of the comments on here might give them a clue. The product is missing key features (the editor) and it’s got lots of bugs that discourage some from buying. They might also look to why the audience for the product isn’t growing and they might wonder about the marketing. They’d have more information about the platforms. Is the console strategy working out?

    They’ve actually got a reasonable stack of DLC on the shelves (I know many will contend that point) but the game plan is that by releasing more the situation will turn around? That works if they have a blockbuster in the pipeline. If they don’t all they have is more poor selling titles. Yes, TS1 has more DLC than TSW, but that’s a situation that’s going to exist for years. Look at FS9, big community lots of DLC. FSX came out, demonstrably better but despite less DLC got good traction pretty quickly.

    I’d argue the correct approach is to reset. Take resources and go back and fix the current DLC. Add the promised features. Look at marketing. Reset with the developers what the needed timeline/budget is for each DLC and amend plans and pricing if needs be. Slow down on DLC releases. Maybe focus on a key DLC that is going to be a blockbuster and form the anchor for the franchise.

    Just churning out routes that don’t sell in sufficient numbers isn’t going to solve the problem even if DTG have very, very deep pockets.

    For those that don’t have the time for people who contribute to this thread or compare them to ‘muppets’ what’s your plan? Stick your head in the sand and mumble that the lack of sales doesn’t have any impact on the game or it’s future. Or that criticism of DTG isn’t fair as they’re not a big company?

    So LeadCatcher perhaps the reason DTG haven’t closed this thread is that they know they’ve an issue and that some of the responses on here provide some information for them on why sales aren’t better. Equally they could jump on and say that the Steam data Digital Draftsman provided isn’t accurate (because) and that things are going just fine. Until they do I’ll keep looking at @Digital Draftsman’s updates and the responses to it.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  8. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    446
    Likes Received:
    718
    No, I am not demeaning legitimate concerns, but this thread has reached such a predictability level that little new is being added. Almost like clock work, when a new DLC is released we will see the same doom and gloom on how poor it is doing in the market.

    Of course since I do want TSW to enjoy a long life, and in that endeavor have purchased all the DLC and have 1st hand knowledge on the improvements as well as the warts and bumps. I am pleased with the progress I am seeing and am enjoying the simulation. With several hundred hours of “game play” I feel I have received good entertainment for the little money spent over the past few years. Just like the early days of Railworks and TS, it is an evolutionary process. Could it be better - sure, But I never catered much to Monay morning quarterbacking. And like I said, good entertainment reading the thread.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 2
  9. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    366
    Likes Received:
    753
    I wonder how accurate the steam figures are, for example there may be many people who play offline, are they included in those steam figures? Also the figures don't necessarily equate to sales, I have purchased all but one route for TSW and "play" TSW probably once or twice a week but generally TS a lot more, that may be a general trend until there is more to get ones teeth into on TSW. Certainly TSW posts on Facebook garner a lot of reaction (both good and bad) and as do Youtube videos of TSW so it seems popular "out there".

    This debate has been raging in various forms for years about whether DTG know what they are doing, I would assume they do and suspect they read these threads but don't necessarily take much from it as a lot of it is just going over the same ground and DTG haven't deviated from their modus-operandi in the last few months.

    Certainly on other forums in the past there are some people you could tell were waiting for the day they could shout "we told you so" if something happened to DTG and stayed quiet when it was clear that their prophesying was off the mark.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  10. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2018
    Messages:
    312
    Likes Received:
    466
    theorganist the concept that the success of TSW may be misrepresented in the data because of offline play works at a point in time. So if I try to look at who is playing now I can only see the online people. That’s true.

    But Digital Draftsman has PC data over time. His data is important because it shows that over time the game isn’t being played more. It has small bumps in usage when a new DLC is released, but those bumps are getting smaller. So unless more and more people are playing offline that flat trend is likely correct.

    The fact that it’s a trend line is also important for those that say ‘these things take time’. That’s true, but time is passing and numbers aren’t moving. That’s worrying for a game developer. The likely trend may be like a hockey stick shape, but shouldn’t the trend should be moving up by this point?

    It’s positive that you’re buying just about all of the DLC but is the fact that you’re not playing it saying something about the DLC rather than yourself? How many more do you need to buy to ‘get your teeth into it’?

    Generally if you think a game is better you move over to it very quickly. I personally held off on upgrading to FSX from FS9 and as soon as I had FSX realized I had made a mistake and never went back. I had Trainz and then tried TS1 and never played Trainz again.

    You of course make your own decisions, but shouldn’t TSW be grabbing you more?
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
    • Downvote Downvote x 1
  11. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    366
    Likes Received:
    753
    I am playing it, along side TS, when I get the time which lately has been lacking. I can see me spending more time on NTP especially when a freight pack is released and especially one or two more diesels (or DMU's even better). The WSR really needs a steamer and the ability to make your own services (something which I hope to get my teeth into when the editor is released). I would say GWE could do with an Electrostar as for the German and American routes, so far, of which I know less about, they generally need in my opinion more traffic in service mode and at least another type of train each, especially the NEC which I believe lacks any kind of local services.

    We had the same with Rail Simulator, I purchased it, played it a few times went back to MSTS, then a new route came out, played it a bit more, went back to MSTS for a bit then eventually as time went on (probably a couple of years) moved almost entirely to what had become Railworks so I don't see anything different happening now. So it does grab me often but not all the time, I suspect this next year we will see more frequent releases of DLC and incrementally I will get more and more into it, just like in 2008!

    If they were worried I think we would have seen a sign.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
    • Upvote Upvote x 2
  12. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    My previous company were two days away from declaring bankruptcy and we heard nothing at all. This was a company with thousands of employees and an annual turnover of tens of millions. Some say a cynic is an optimist with experience.. ;)

    LeadCatcher well this is the (insert low echoing voice) End Of TSW thread, so its more of a discussion thread about perceptions and future direction, much more of a discussion thread over a cup of coffee than anything else I would say. In that context I share your entertainment (possibly wrong word choice there by me) but I don't think anyone is coming out and proclaiming the apocalypse or anything, just mulling stuff over I guess. At least that's what Im doing because if I actually discussed the future direction of DTG and TSW with my wife I suspect my stock would fall a little..
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 20, 2018
    • Upvote Upvote x 4
  13. DominusEdwardius

    DominusEdwardius Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    54
    I think airing caution with the set of numbers is advised in my personal opinion, the data is after all the peak number of concurrent users during a day, which means a whole heap of factors can affect the number of concurrent players, if a DLC releases earlier than normal in a day for example, the number of players may end up spread over a longer period of time so the concurrent peak is less as people may have tried it and gone for their evening meals or what not. Similarly the true peak may not have actually been recorded, if for example steam briefly goes down as it quite frequently does when the peak occurs then the peak will not be recorded. So trying to base number of sales = peak number of concurrent users isn't a very accurate measure really, not least because people are perfectly entitled to buy it on any day other than release day, maybe its towards the end of the month and are waiting for their pay check? One DLC may sell 1000 copies in the first day, and then for the rest of the week only sell 500 more. Similarly a DLC could sell 500 in the first day, and 2000 in the subsequent week. The first DLC would give a spike of users, the other wouldn't yet the 2nd has sold more.

    https://steamdb.info/app/530070/graphs/
    Now one could argue that the numbers are going down with each concurrent release, the peak numbers after all go
    CSX 1933
    GWE 1669
    RT 1032
    NEC 787
    WSR 392
    RSN 973 (I thought we were meant to be going down here...)
    LIRR 509
    NTP 554

    There is one amusing oddity which actually goes to show the above point that people may not immediately go by buy a DLC, take the LIRR release, on release day the peak is 509, 5 days later the peak is 516 so yeah... Then there is the issue that has seemingly been ignored, bias. Lets face it, when CSX came out we all wanted to see what the new generation of train simulator was like and so probably played it within the first few days of release, this is likely to have caused the massive spike in users. Similarly when GWE and RT came out, well these were new things, the first UK route and the first German route, all brand spanking new and exciting. I strongly suspect there's a bit of New product bias with these releases as people are excited to see what the new route brings to the table. With subsequent DLC people more or less know what to expect to the peaks drop off naturally.

    But all this is totally pointless comparisons, what is a better indication to the health of the game is probably the number of players in between launches, outside of the new fancy release spike. Now looking at the above data , it can be plainly seen that Sundays are the most frequented days of the weak the the highest user peak on these days, makes sense really as people aren't at work/school/whatever.

    Now for CSX the new release spike ended around the 14th of May, and ended around Sunday 10th September. During this period the Lowest Sunday peak was 89 and the highest was 166. Repeating the same ignoring the release spikes for the other DLC it goes
    CSX 89-166
    GWE 167-251
    RT 228-305 *(note there was a sunday of 574 but a patch was released a few days before so it is a bit unfair to include this).
    NEC 155-207 *(this DLC one definitely did have a decrease)
    WSR 179-328 *(note another odd peak of 421, not sure why)
    RSN 227-359
    LIRR* 319-344 (*This isn't technically fair, as the 33 released a few days later and even then it is literally only 2 possible weeks due to the proximity of NTP's release)
    NTP No data

    With the exception of NEC which seemed to do more harm than good somehow, all DLCs have resulted in an increase of players. And compared with last year the player count of the normal players playing week in week out has close to tripled in number since the launch of CSX. Can I say which DLC's did well or not - nope, does it matter in the slightest - not really, is the game in a better state than it was last year - definitely, both in terms of player count, performance and DLC variety. The DLC gapping also seems to be keeping players up now which is good.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2018
    • Upvote Upvote x 3
    • Useful Useful x 3
  14. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2018
    Messages:
    312
    Likes Received:
    466
    DominusEdwardius interesting. Now I’m looking at the link you provided and under ‘players each day’ I’m selecting the one year graph. Looking at that I can’t get to

    ‘and compared with last year the count of player numbers has close to tripled in numbers’

    I think if I ran all the data through it would tell me

    A) over one year there are more users, although nothing like triple
    B) Q4 is the most robust period
    C) The median is around 300 users a day
    D) Again Q4 is probably above that median, but not by much. Overall even now usage seems pretty rangebound (a quick check on that is the few number of data points over 500 users in a day)

    What is promising is the idea of 50,000-100,000 users in terms of sales but I’m not sure how they calculate that. Does adding a new route add a user? That doesn’t include consoles either so as I say promising.

    What is less promising (other than for DTGs sales) is that suggests that if there are say (keeping the math easy) 60,000 purchasers and roughly there are 300 users every day on average each user plays once every 200 days. I know that’s a rather stretched stat, but it might suggest why the new routes don’t make much impact. Quite a lot of people bought TSW but not a lot of them use it?
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
  15. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2017
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    275
    Well the editor should change that. Imagine playing TS1 with no Workshop scenarios or editor, and the only thing you got was a barebones Quick Drive and the handful of scenarios that came along with the route. It would probably see the same numbers that you would see in TSW. No matter how detailed a route is, it gets stale after a while, especially since there are no service disruptions to change up the pace. Plus with scenarios featuring barebones AI as it is due to choice or because the game has a lack of appropriate rolling stock, there really is not much to do after you've driven the routes a few times. I suspect the number of daily players will increase significantly once custom scenarios are introduced alongside the editor and we'll experience the creative minds of creators.

    ___________________

    A lot of members might feel disillusioned with DTG releases and stop buying new ones altogether, and the statistics do not take into account refunds. Someone might have played the route for an hour or so, and decided it did not warrant the purchase and received a refund through Steam, and that still counts as a player who has played the game.
     
  16. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    1,162
    A totally uneducated guess here but I think people are getting less excited/bothered about new DLC releases and the pre-order discount hype isn’t as appetising as they once were.

    I think people are holding back despite the pre-order discount because of the known cycle of bugs and a general lack of QA once a new route has been released, so they are being more wary and wait for the reviews before buying.

    It seems to be near enough the same bugs everytime a route is released and DTG need to learn from these mistakes. It’s these things which put people off from buying new content. They aren’t ‘new’ to route building anymore and certainly some of the most obvious bugs should not keep occurring.

    Some of the most obvious bugs which keep reoccurring when a new route is released are:
    - Scenery errors/bugs
    - Rain through roofs
    - Issues with tunnel lighting
    - NPC’s spawning/walking in strange places/places they aren’t supposed to be (on the tracks for example)
     
  17. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    Well I think its worth giving credit where credit is due. The trans pennine route is visually very good, its really engaging and captures the feel of the north of England well. Most significantly for me, it is the first DLC that has me forgetting that its a computer game for brief periods. That suspension of disbelief or immersion factor is what brings people back because they can drive their own 'story' and get lost in the moment. Its the whole reason for picking up the game in the first place. Its here that I just get so very exasperated because just as Im getting lost in the moment and thinking what a wonderful time Im having, my eye is drawn to the shadows that are popping in just 200m or so in front of the train, or the flickering of some sleepers that distracts me, or the crazy bloom on the rail heads, or a bloody great tree trunk resting up against the track. It could be an epic experience in terms of forgetting where you are because the visuals can do that, but the oversights or lack of technical expertise or whatever, just brings you out of that moment just as you're getting into it. Once DTG can nail this aspect of the game, then its never going to be easy to criticise it again, because its what almost all the criticisms ultimately point towards.
    I reckon they'll do it eventually, but until they do I'm going to keep on filling in the report card with 'could do better'..
    Enjoy the holidays DTG folk. Come the New Year it would be amazing if you could nail it :)
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 4
  18. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    857
    Can’t say fairer than that!
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  19. JoeTransit

    JoeTransit Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2018
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    90
    Why is everyone exasperating their energy onto this petty matter? It succeeds or it doesn't! Let's enjoy TSW and TSxx as they are, whether with or without bugs. This is honestly a trivial thread because no one of us are oracles and we can't see into the future. The best we can do is to be optimistic about the future, rather than pessimistic because of the so-called precedents of FSW and Euro Fishing. This goes for all aspects of life as well. We can go through life wondering what comes next but enforcing that on other people is not a feasible way to go about life. I'm not trying to tell you what to do and what not to do because that's all up to you. Happy holidays to all!
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 5
  20. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    857
    Personally, it’s because i’ve spent well over £200 on TSW alone and it isn’t consistently living up to the marketing and hype that DTG put out, or to what I’ve come to expect. Those expectations are borne out of the progress DTG made with TS1, and the quality of some of the TSW DLC. To put it in perspective, that’s a similar amount of money to that I’ve paid for the last 5 GTA releases, at roughly £50 per game.

    I want TSW to be around for years to come and be the best it can be. It’s damn frustrating to see the same lack of attention to detail, and schoolboy errors that plague almost every release.

    I’m not a charity but I am a paying customer, as are we all. DTG aren’t giving us this stuff for free. I can’t think of a game developer that has been consistently cut this much slack, by so many people, for so long. I guess people post here in exasperation with it all, in the hope that somehow, the message might get through to the powers that be.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
    • Upvote Upvote x 5
  21. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    366
    Likes Received:
    753
    Well I don't know what you were expecting but it has pretty been what I thought it would be so far with a couple of minor annoyances but nothing is ever perfect. You talk about people "cutting them slack" but the people commenting on here are only a very small handful relatively compared to the silent majority who are presumably getting on and using it.

    It reminds me of another forum where the constant comments were "they don't listen to us" there were about ten regular "complainers" who moaned at everything DTG did, why would they listen. The main barometer of opinion DTG will be looking at are it's sales figures, so unless there is a groundswell of negative opinion running into the hundreds on social media I don't imagine they are taking too much notice of what is said here, especially as it is mainly nine pages of repetition!
     
    • Downvote Downvote x 4
    • Upvote Upvote x 2
  22. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    857
    All valid & perfectly reasonable points.

    Please understand that when I talk of ‘cutting them slack’, I’m referring to the well worn path of low quality/ buggy releases then onto the next one, with the previous content never getting fixed. DTGs output has for years, swung from being amongst the best, to the worst and back again. You never know what you’re going to get every time you buy from them. Even with all of that, we all keep coming back as there is no other option, and they know it.

    For example, there are still DLC being sold for TS1 with all kinds of problems, including broken scenarios, that have been that way for years.

    I’ve constantly said that DTG deserve credit where it’s due, and I’ve also said many times that there is a lot about TSW that is excellent. That excellence creates a precedent, and I don’t feel it’s unreasonable to expect that where things are good, new content will be of the same, or better, quality, and where things are bad they are improved upon. Surely that is what anyone should be striving for, and should most certainly be the case when your business is niche, expensive to the consumer and relies entirely on loyalty and repeat custom.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
    • Upvote Upvote x 7
    • Downvote Downvote x 1
  23. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    366
    Likes Received:
    753
    You do have an option - don't purchase it if you think it is going to be full of bugs no one is forcing you. If you purchased a car or a mobile phone riddled with problems, would you then purchase another from the same manufacture?

    And personally I don't think their releases are low quality, particularly in recent years so it is all subjective, I would say their routes in particular are nicely detailed.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 2
    • Downvote Downvote x 1
  24. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    I think youre missing the point. Its not an exercise in convincing people your position is correct, or about telling people how to behave. Its a discussion about exploring unfulfilled potential, company strategy etc. The key word here being 'discussion'. There's no need to close anyone down or force an opinion. Its a forum after all..
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 4
  25. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    857
    I’m not getting into a slanging match with you, we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

    I’ll just point you to Woodhead in Blue which was completely broken upon release, then Portsmouth Direct which is very good. Then the Virgin Pendolino, which was also completely broken on release, where the major bug was fixed (ie the train randomly split in two) but the promised fix for it murdering framerates that was made months ago hasn’t been forthcoming.

    We then have RSN for TSW which is excellent, to LIRR and NTP which could have been great but, for bugs and lack of attention to detail, are merely good.

    Lack of consistency is my point.

    I was going to downvote you too, but have resisted the urge because as Puffing Nora said, this is a forum for discussion, debate & opinion - with mine being just as valid as yours.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
    • Upvote Upvote x 5
  26. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    1,162
    At the end of the day we *all* want TSW to succeed and build upon itself, there’s no doubt about that.

    DTG *can* build some fantastic routes and trains, RSN being one example, but it’s the inconsistency of this which lets thing down.

    I was hoping we’d get the same quality of route building that RSN received for all future DLCs after its release, as there’s a marked contrast between that and earlier routes, but unfortunately that wasn’t true.

    I just don’t understand why, depending on which route is being built, the quality of it can vary so much. Maybe there are separate teams with different abilities working on separate routes? Maybe they aren’t as motivated as they were for something else? Who knows.

    I just want the quality of DLCs to stay at a high point or better increase with each release. Not fluctuate all over the place.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 5
  27. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    857
    This is the sort of thing I'm talking about. A simple service, resumed form a saved game. The same 'save' function that hasn't worked from day 1.

    I honestly can't be bothered to submit a ticket as I've submitted 3 for NTP already. If you're happy with this then fair enough, but much as I try to ignore it and give it the benefit of the doubt, I'm not.


    TSW_James_1545402821_00.jpg TSW_James_1545402840_00.jpg TSW_James_1545402889_00.jpg
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
    • Upvote Upvote x 5
  28. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    1,591
    Likes Received:
    1,750
    The quality of LIRR is definitely much better than NEC. It’s so much better.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 2
    • Downvote Downvote x 1
  29. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2018
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    857
    Indeed it is Anthony. I do enjoy NEC nonetheless, at least there is a bit of variety on the route.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2018
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  30. Gascan

    Gascan Active Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2018
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    233
    This has been one of the most respectful 9 page discussion threads I’ve ever seen with a delicate balance of opinion and fact woven together. I hope to see it continue.

    Neither side is going to “win” but that’s not the point otherwise the insults would have been free flowing from about page 4 when both sides realized the other was not going to change their mind.

    It’s true that complaining may not change anything but then again neither will cheerleading.

    So for those pontificating about the futility of negativity... the irony is excruciating.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 8
  31. JoeTransit

    JoeTransit Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2018
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    90
    I agree with Gascan.
     
  32. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    Just had an email drop into my junk folder about trainz which I haven't touched for years. I watched the youtube advert and I am intrigued. Could this be the competition that the market so clearly needs? Judge for yourself and Im curious to see what you think. 3 years in development apparently. Considered responses only please ;)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2018
    • Downvote Downvote x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
  33. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    1,087
    Likes Received:
    773
    I have been keeping my eye on this from the start, and it has my eye as they have made serious improvements over their previous product. From the videos I have seen from the early access have been very positive about the product. I am seriously thinking of getting this once it is available on steam.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  34. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    366
    Likes Received:
    753
    I tried to get into the last one as I liked the fact it has the ECML in BR blue with enough stock to run it. However it only came with three sessions IIRC (which were not enough to cover all the road and the variety of trains on it) and trying to make your own seemed so complicated compared to MSTS and TS that I gave up with it. I struggled to find much in the way of tutorials for making sessions and the whole process seemed very laborious. The new TSW tools seem to be just as powerful yet looking at the Twitch stream scenario creation looks infinitely more accessible! There are mixed reviews on the two British routes in this new release although the fact one is a GWR steam route and the other a BR blue route flies in the face of all the comments that only modern routes sell well.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  35. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    Thanks guys. Food for thought in your responses. I like the idea of interactive industry and a moving world but its got to be immersive and not arcady. TSW is getting better (the recent Pennines route has me thoroughly immersed at times albeit in short doses until the next big log resting against the track) so its very much wait and see. I thought it might be worth throwing it open for discussion though. Cheers.
     
  36. Railfan722

    Railfan722 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2018
    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    653
    Aren't the logs on the TransPennine route collectables? Could be why they're so close to the track. In terms of TRS 2019, you can see a few things from the trailer, though I only noticed them once they had been pointed out to me - firstly, there's no point lighting, so all ambient light comes from either the sun or the train - that's it. As well as that, switches (points) don't even have frogs! Just some food for thought.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  37. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    So if I stop and collect them theyll be gone? Just want to confirm before I come to a screeching halt.. excellent feedback on trainz too. Thanks.
    Edit- Im starting to think this thread could do with a rename.. its a good sharing of ideas and views from where Im sitting.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2018
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  38. Railfan722

    Railfan722 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2018
    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    653
    If you walk near them, then yes, they should turn into little piles of chopped wood. Check out pschlik's guide on Steam as to the location of collectibles, it's very useful.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  39. AlexNL

    AlexNL Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2017
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    253
    Yes, those logs are collectibles. I'm guessing they're placed that close to the track to trigger you to stop and find out... otherwise you'd drive right past them :)
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 2
  40. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2017
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    1,162
    Got to say the Trainz advert features some very nice looking scenery and detail, something which Train Sim World is missing a lot recently.
     
  41. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    Yes, I was intrigued by the involvement in the world, driving to actual industries etc, but as Railfan722 points out theres a couple of downsides too. Also I remember how it really only seemed to work in a fairly simple way in the sense that it became very hard to manage multiple consists (I suppose if you like dispatching there's a definite niche there to go toe to toe with run8). I think its definitely a different product that offers different things to TSW so I guess its just what fits your particular requirement. There's nothing stopping us from having them both of course- its doesnt have to be a case of I like trainz therefore I cannot like TSW.. one day I might feel like dispatching and organising a railway on a meta level, another day I might feel like thrashing through the Pennines. Its definitely interesting to get peoples thoughts and insights on it as I literally know only what is in that brief advert and from what I played with what must have been the original trainz it was so long ago..
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 2
  42. JoeTransit

    JoeTransit Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2018
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    90
    This conversation has turned into an analytics and logistics class. :| Lol
     
  43. Railfan722

    Railfan722 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2018
    Messages:
    383
    Likes Received:
    653
    Better to make logical arguments rather than just slinging opinions around, no? ;) At least the discussion is respectful and we all agree to (somewhat) get along. It's almost a Christmas miracle! :D
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 5
  44. JoeTransit

    JoeTransit Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2018
    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    90
  45. SimonM719

    SimonM719 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    30
    Just watched some trainz 2019 videos on YouTube and it's looks very bad graphics wise, not a patch on TSW, in fact looks about 10 years older, won't be buying that
     
    • Downvote Downvote x 2
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
  46. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    If good graphics are a high priority then that is understandable. Others seek immersion and engagement even if it comes at the expense of graphical fidelity. Personal choice I suppose.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 2
    • Downvote Downvote x 1
  47. SimonM719

    SimonM719 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    30
    Graphical fidelity lol, trainz looks no different to ts2018, so might as well keep playing ts2018, more of a sim than trainz and graphic realism Is needed to Simulate reality though, fact...
     
  48. Puffing Nora

    Puffing Nora Guest

    If you say so.
    Edit- It is clear that any attempt at a balanced view will be met with a hard assertion that yours is the only opinion that matters and that has validity. Faced with such an inflexible mindset a further exchange of ideas with you is pointless.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 27, 2018
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
    • Downvote Downvote x 1
  49. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2018
    Messages:
    312
    Likes Received:
    466
    The new version of Trainz, from the posted videos and screenshots, does look impressive. To me though it still has the look and feel of an electronic model railway. Even the Auran publicity has that feel, the emphasis of long sweeping shots of the scenery and multiple trains running. To me there’s far less emphasis on the in cab driving experience. There’s also the cost, both the base package and the add on DLCs aren’t cheap and the selection is rather haphazard.

    What is interesting are their ‘pass’ options they offer. The top ‘Gold Class’ offers for $15 a month access to the base package (and the older TANE), access to 5 DLCs each month from a predefined selection, discount at the store, early preview of new items etc. etc. While it’s not an ‘all you can eat’ program it is interesting.

    Something similar in the past has been suggested on this forum for TSW and there may be reasons it wouldn’t work for TSW. What is interesting is that Auran price the new game at $70. Compare that with the DTG pricing on Steam.

    On TSW pricing in Steam I was looking at the bundles offered and they didn’t seem to make sense when comparing them. If you look for example at the ‘Digital Deluxe Upgrade Edition’ it compares the normal selling price (other than one item) with the bundle sale package. The ‘Digital Deluxe Edition’ compares the sale prices to the bundle prices.

    And while I’m at it can somebody explain in what I’m missing between buying the ‘Deluxe’ edition and the ‘Deluxe Upgrade edition’? Isn’t the upgrade edition the same at twice the price (at least in my country version of Steam)?

    Just to give you an idea of how cheap TSW is (at least for me) I can get the ‘Digital Deluxe Edition’ which Is TSW, GP40-2, GWE, North East Corridor and Rapid Transit for COP 59,580 or $18. Not quite giving it away, but pretty close.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2018
    • Upvote Upvote x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  50. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    366
    Likes Received:
    753
    I think TSW has a new level of immersion which TS doesn't offer and is probably near to what Trainz offers. Yes TSW lacks some life and of course content but it is early days in that respect but it looks like it's scenario editor (when it is released) could be as powerful as Trainz certainly in terms of being able to shunt and run round and offers better graphics. Also service mode offers a lot of potential and when done fairly well as on GWE can be very immersive. I didn't think I was too bothered about graphics but looking out of Paddington on TSW out towards Westbourne Park you have to almost check it is not a photograph and looking at the Trainz screenshots it has certainly improved but is not as good graphically as TSW and I don't think it is any better than recent TS1 routes. Trainz functionality with TSW graphics would be a great combination.
     
    • Upvote Upvote x 4
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page