The Ice 4 Should Be The Next Ice, Here's Why!

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Br425, Sep 13, 2022.

  1. Br425

    Br425 Well-Known Member

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    Imagine Kassel-Würzburg with not only two, but three different ICE types!

    The ICE 4 is about to become the most common ICE type in Germany as it replaces many ICE 1s and takes over the north to south services, which are exactly the ones that are mainly playable on Kassel-Würzburg. From all the ICEs that are not in the game yet, the ICE 4 is the most unique-looking (as the ICE 2 is similiar to the ICE 1 and the ICE T is similar to the ICE 3), so it would be really cool to have that one in the game as the next new ICE.

    Many of the ICE 1 services on the route Kassel-Würzburg are limited to 250 km/h anyway and dont go up to 280, even when the line speed allows it. That is because in reality, that service is driven by an ICE 4 which only can go 250 (they are being "upgraded" to 265 soon).
    So I think the ICE 4 would fit perfectly onto the route.

    ICE 4 1.jpeg
    ICE 4 2.jpg

    The most common ICE 4 has 12 coaches which are 28.7 m long, that means these are the longest middle coaches of all ICEs. In contrast to the ICE 1, it is an EMU so it does not have any locos, but instead a motor beneath many coaches (so-called "power cars"), giving it an incredible acceleration. Some ICE 4s are being built with 13 coaches, called "XXL ICE", these would be the longest German EMUs in TSW. They can also be seen on Kassel-Würzburg in reality.

    Furthermore, it could be layered onto most of the existing German routes in TSW because, as mentioned, it is currently completely taking over Germany :)

    Lastly, the ICE 4 would be the most modern German train in TSW as it was introduced to the rails in 2017. Since then, new units have been built and delivered every year and there are more to come. So a new very modern route would also make sense for the ICE 4 in TSW.

    I really hope it will be added soon, I would just love the great variety of ICEs.

    (Edited on 01/02/2023, removed false information and added further aspects from the discussion)
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2023
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  2. kjeld.dejager

    kjeld.dejager Active Member

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    an excellent idea but then it should be build to go 265 km/h instead of 250and the ICE 2 should also be build because it is the first ICE that can couple so it is a set of two and the ICE T is the only banking ICE and also the ICE TD should be build because it is a diesel ICE and who wouldnt that? but it is a nice idea any way.
     
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  3. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    Good idea, but I think the ICE 4 would deserve its own route. Since it doesn’t have the highest top speed, maybe something similar to Köln-Aachen (mainline between two big cities, all kinds of trains can travel on it). Kassel-Würzburg is already the only route with two types of ICE in the game, no need to add a third one.
     
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  4. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Excellent idea but they are more suited for Schnellfahrstrecke Rhein Main and Schnellfahrstrecke Stuttgart Ulm because Those lines have ICE 4 (DB Baureihe 412) in service.
     
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  5. Br425

    Br425 Well-Known Member

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    Hahaha yeeee just build every single one. But I don't find the ICE TD interesting as it isnt even in use anymore
     
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  6. Br425

    Br425 Well-Known Member

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    Kassel Würzburg is full of ICE 4, you can see that in TSW as well. Every ICE 1 that is limited to 250 is an ICE 4 in reality
     
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  7. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    Some people said, that SRM (Schnellfahrstrecke Rhein Main) is up planned next to TSW 3 but I don't want so say anything false, it just something some players told me on the Kassel-Würzburg Stream
     
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  8. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for telling me about it. For DTG they should have look at actual trains on Schnellfahrstrecke Hannover Kassel Würzburg since DB BR412 runs there. Furthermore DB BR412 ICE 4 does run on Rhein Ruhr Osten using my proposal Bochum/Dortmund/Witten-Hagen line using the 1988 built Bochum Langendreer Junction
     
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  9. kjeld.dejager

    kjeld.dejager Active Member

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    ICE 2 and ICE 3 on HRR
     
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  10. Xaineth

    Xaineth New Member

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    Huh? Where did these rumours come from?
     
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  11. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    I saw it on stream, some people talked about it bevor the stream startet
     
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  12. BN3140

    BN3140 Member

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    I want all the ICEs.
     
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  13. Br425

    Br425 Well-Known Member

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    I would think of that to be false, of course it is a highly requested route, but I don't see the reason to build it at the moment:

    -We just had a high speed route
    -It would be yet another use of the ICE 3
    -nobody said anything about the route at DTG, otherwise there would definitely be more threads about it. So it will probably only be a rumour because some players want it
     
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  14. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it could be a high speed route in the future, but there are more hints, that Gemünden-Würzburg could be an upcoming route
     
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  15. Br425

    Br425 Well-Known Member

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    Which would also make sense as the BR 440 would fit very well and has been requested for TSW many times
     
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  16. grdaniel48

    grdaniel48 Well-Known Member

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    Well... DB is working on very big investment, about the new ICE ... "L" made by Talgo!

    "Deutsche Bahn (DB) has announced that it will invest over 19 billion EUR (18.81bn USD) in new passenger and fleet locomotives and trains by 2030.

    This, its largest-ever fleet modernisation programme, was announced at InnoTrans 2022.

    Dr Richard Lutz, Deutsche Bahn CEO, said:
    “We’re now investing in the trains of the future. With this record sum, we’re creating the capacity for even higher demand.

    “Modern vehicles not only make the railways more climate friendly, but also more reliable and customer friendly.”

    DB is using InnoTrans 2022 to showcase its ‘fleet of the future’.

    When it comes to regional travel, it’s showcasing a converted double-decker car that will come with dedicated office cabins and spacious family compartments.

    In long-distance transport, DB is expanding its ICE fleet with the new ICE L and is expecting three new ICE trains every month in 2023. By 2030, this fleet will grow to roughly 450 trains".
     
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  17. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Well said and also how about the conventional line Gemünden to Fulda via Flieden where DB Baureihe 440 also runs and portion of the line is visible at Burgsinn. DB Baureihe 440 can then be made into DB Baureihe 1440 for Rhein Ruhr Osten Tharandter Rampe and Hauptstrecke Rhein Ruhr
     
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  18. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    But isn't the Br440 a completely different train than the Br1440? Because it looks different and sounds different
     
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  19. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    They are the same train key difference between a Br440 with 1440 is the driver's cab exterior. On the DB Br 1440 the front seems to have a Happy face to it but not the DB Br440
    DB Br 440
    [​IMG]
    DB Br1440
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2022
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  20. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The DB BR 440 must be a grumpy train then since it doesn't have a smile :)
     
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  21. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Good Point and for DB Baureihe 1440 it can be introduced together with ICE4 DB Baureihe 412 on Hauptstrecke Bochum/Dortmund-Hagen
     
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  22. Br425

    Br425 Well-Known Member

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    There would also be some liveries you could add, I think it would be cool if there was a small chance for these to spawn:

    Green livery:
    ice 4 green.jpg

    Germany livery:
    ice 4 germany.jpg
     
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  23. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Good choices how about Tz 9213 having a red stripe over the Coupler doors. Another route to introduce them is Hauptstrecke Bochum-Dortmund/Hagen the missing link between Hauptstrecke Rhein Ruhr (Bahnstrecke Witten/Dortmund-Oberhausen/Duisburg) Rhein Ruhr Osten (Bahnstrecke Elberfeld-Dortmund) Ruhr Sieg Nord (Bahnstrecke Hagen Finnentrop Siegen) that way you can alternate this with ICE1 from Schnellfahrstrecke Hannover Würzburg the full name of Kassel Wilhelmshöhe Würzburg route since every one has it
     
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  24. Ferrovipathe67

    Ferrovipathe67 Well-Known Member

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    The ice T is also unique and does not take over the base of an ICE 3 but yes I like this suggestion but for me I think that the next train will be come in the game is the Br 411/415 (ice)
     
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  25. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    I also really hope for the ICE T, but the ICE 4 is also a really nice train
     
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  26. Br425

    Br425 Well-Known Member

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    The ICE T would certainly be amazing and could also be used on other existing routes, such as Dresden-Riesa and also Kassel - Würzburg for some services.

    I would still prefer the ICE 4 though, to me it is more unique and has cool other features. For example, when it is dark outside, the ICE 4 will dim the passenger lights and turn them orange-ish. Have a look:
    WhatsApp Image 2023-01-29 at 13.27.49.jpeg
     
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  27. Matin_TSP

    Matin_TSP Well-Known Member

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    The ICE 4 is the most ugly ICE and is has barely noticible sound. I'd personally want to have the ICE-T :D
     
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  28. Br425

    Br425 Well-Known Member

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    When it was new, I did not like the ICE 4 much as well. But over the time, it has really become one of my favourites and I don't even know how.
     
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  29. Jonne1184

    Jonne1184 Well-Known Member

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    Finally someone has said it. My guess is the design criteria was: We already have the absolutely worst livery a train can carry in the whole world. We finally need to design a train that looks as bad as the livery it is going to wear. Absolute success on that part.

    So my comment: I am not going to buy a train that looks this stupid, is slower than its predecessor and also brings 0 chage to the game.
     
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  30. Matin_TSP

    Matin_TSP Well-Known Member

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    I mean that's okay. I don't like the ICE 4 in real life. But that's not a reason why i wouldn't buy it in TSW :D
     
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  31. Jonne1184

    Jonne1184 Well-Known Member

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    For me it really is. Same for the 187 and should it ever appear in the game, the SC-44.
     
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  32. Br425

    Br425 Well-Known Member

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    Oh wow, that is some hate. I think the ICE 4 would bring a big change to the game, it is the most common ICE in Germany and would be a great addition for more realism.

    Besides, the train does not need to be faster than 250, as it is used on routes where the top speed rarely exceeds 250. And the incredible acceleration of the ICE 4 can compensate those few parts.
     
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  33. Jonne1184

    Jonne1184 Well-Known Member

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    Please please please, put that big change into words and not just claim one. I don't see it and this is not because I don't like the ICE 4, but because I cannot find something that would change the player interaction when driving an ICE 4 against all other ICEs and the 101. A big change would be something like the 110 did, where the driving style is a complete different. Or the 612 with its unique safety system. And accelaration? No, the ICE 3 is better at that too, so again nothing unique here.
     
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  34. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Where is this done on the ICE 4? My guess is the same as ICE 3 the MFD
     
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  35. Br425

    Br425 Well-Known Member

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    - As I said, firstly the realism. Since the ICE 4 is now the most common ICE in Germany, that would increase realism by a lot. It could be layered on so many existing routes and also future routes.

    - Secondly, from all missing ICEs in TSW, the ICE 4 is the most unique looking.

    - The ICE 4 is a very modern train. It would be the newest and most modern German train in Train Sim World

    - The 13 car train (XXL-ICE) would be the longest German EMU in TSW.

    - Other smaller features, such as the orange passenger lights

    - The possibility to introduce ETCS to German trains if a respective route will be added with it (such as Wendlingen-Ulm)

    I watched a documentation about the ICE 4, where I learned that the ICE 4 has the strongest acceleration. I'll have a look if I can find it. Where did you get that information from?
     
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  36. Sparmi

    Sparmi Well-Known Member

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    For me the ICE4 is one of the prettiest ICE trains with a unique design. In addition, at 28.7 m, it has the longest middle cars ever built. Of course, with a maximum speed of 265km/h, it's not the fastest ICE, but it's the most modern. Would make sense to put it out with a new route. It would probably also be a marketing driving force, like the ICE1 was for TSW3. Soon, however, the Niddertalbahn will take things at a more leisurely pace, with a touch of nostalgia. Because there are already enough modern high-speed routes for the moment. ;)
     
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  37. SonicScott91

    SonicScott91 Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I'd like to see the ICE-T added next. Do a SEHS and extend the Riesa - Dresden route to Leipzig with the ICE-T featured as the new rolling stock, similar to what the did in TS Classic. With LZB included in that extension, DRA would become the German route with a little bit of everything in it.

    If they do add the ICE4 though, I certainly won't complain! :)
     
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  38. Oelix

    Oelix Active Member

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    That is why this train is called Mopsgesicht (Mops: pug, Gesicht: face). The front of the newer 1440 was changed in order to make it more crashworthy.
     
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  39. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Good point and why not bundle that with NEC Boston Providence With Acela Express and BML With Class 700 as the Rush hour adventure pack
     
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  40. Br425

    Br425 Well-Known Member

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    I could not agree more. And since Bremen Oldenburg and the Niddertalbahn are both set in the further past, a more modern route (with the ICE 4 :)) would make sense afterwards
     
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  41. Jonne1184

    Jonne1184 Well-Known Member

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    Apart from Kassel - Würzburg and maybe Dresden - Riesa, all routes in TSW are set before the introduction of the ICE 4, thus including the ICE 4 on that route would make it unrealstic. Apart from that, this does not add any significant change to the gameplay, so no big change here.

    Again no big change here, apart from that, its not really that far apart from the other.

    And yet be basically identical to operating the ICE 3. Again no change...

    Oh yes, one car more per train absolutely changes everything. This must be revoluationary. It would basically warrant calling it TSW 4.

    You call them smaller features yourself, so where is the big change?

    ETCS already exist in the game. In addition it would also be relevant for all other ICEs, so nothing new to see here.

    Just did quick math with traction effort (which is alot less on the ICE 4 than the ICE 3), power output and train weight. This information is available on Wikipedia. Looks like the documentation was wrong.

    So to conclude, as I already stated, there is no big change, all you listed were tiny details. And this is why I prefer development effort to be spent on real changes.
     
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  42. Br425

    Br425 Well-Known Member

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    My god you really do hate the ICE 4
    If your expectations for big changes in new trains are that high, there are not many trains left that will satisfy them.

    But just a few thoughts of mine again:
    That is exactly why I think we need more modern German routes for something new and a change, which would be perfect for the ICE 4.

    Besides, Rhein-Ruhr Osten, Hauptstrecke Rhein-Ruhr, Schnellfahrstrecke Köln, Hauptstrecke München Augsburg and Rapid Transit could have them as layers as well (in some cases only AI), I think that is quite much. And if you don't take it too seriously, Main-Spessart Bahn works too, at least for some Aschaffenburg AI.

    I think the looks of a train are an important aspect. But I do get that it is not your favourite design of all ICEs.

    You've got a point there, however, there are many trains that are similar in how you operate them. For example the BRs 422, 423, 425, 442 are almost the same. There only are a few different types of conducting a train.

    I understand your position, this isnt the biggest change. I still think it's cool.

    As I said, these are only smaller features. But many different features, even if small, can make up to a noticeable change.

    It doesn't exist in Germany, so that would be new.

    If your calculations are correct, then I have to give you that point. I tried to find the documentation, but I couldn't unfortunately.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2023
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  43. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    The ICE 4 (Br412) is an excellent train for TrainSimWorld because it is one of the most advanced and reliable high-speed trains in Germany. With its modern technology and realistic design, it offers an unparalleled driving experience. The ICE 4 also has a wide range of features, such as automatic schedule adjustments and a highly advanced information and entertainment system, making the ride even more enjoyable. In short, the ICE 4 (Br412) is a must-have for all TrainSimWorld fans.
     
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  44. Br425

    Br425 Well-Known Member

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    I think the new German Loco DLC might be the ICE 4. I know it is not exactly a multi current train, but I think it would still make sense. Maybe it is listed as multi current train because it also goes to other countries.

    However, the time this new loco will be set in is after 2011. The only German TSW 3 route which is set after 2011 is Kassel-Würzburg. Every other German TSW 3 route is set before that. I don't really think that DTG are developing a loco DLC for a TSW 2 route, so I believe it will be for Kassel-Würzburg. And since we already had a freight loco for that route, I think the ICE 4 is the most plausible option left.
     
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  45. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    As much as I love all ICE's and would also love to see the ICE 2, ICE T, ICE TD, ICE 3 Velaro D, ICE 3neo and the upcoming ICE L in game, I do agree that the ICE 4 should be the next one. The ICE 4 is the most unique from what we have, and is also usable in many future routes or upgrades of timetables of existing routes. In this regard the ICE 4 is followed shortly by the ICE T which is unique due to it's tilting ability and also would be usable on a lot of future routes and ones already in game. The 7-car variant of the ICE 4 (and ICE T) could also sub into services where an ICE 2 might normally be used, as the 7 car variant is replacing the ICE 2 services (where shorter trains are used, that operate coupled for trunk sections of the route, and then uncouple to go to different end locations). Great suggestion!

    Perhaps the ICE could also come along a Hamburg-Hannover route (which would of course also have ICE 1 layers :)), Stuttgart-Ulm or a route somewhere between Hamburg, Bremen and the Ruhr area. I think the lines between the big north German cities as well as those in Baden-Württemberg are still lacking in representation in game, and routes starting in Hamburg and Bremen have already layed the groundwork for layers, timetable research and station modelling. I think it will therefore be a matter of time before we see a route in one of those areas, and those all have quite a bit of ICE 4 representation. So perhaps the ICE 4 will be released as part of those routes, or as a loco DLC for them, hopefully not too long in the future.

    Building a EMU like the ICE 4 falls within the scope of a summer release, so perhaps then. :)
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2023
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  46. Br425

    Br425 Well-Known Member

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    Couldnt agree more with all of that. The ICE T would certainly be amazing as well.
    And as I mentioned in the post, the ICE 4 is completely taking over Germany so yeah, it would make sense for basically any route
     
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  47. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    4 and T are the most obvious candidates if the new DLC is an ICE. To be honest, I’d probably prefer the 4 simply because it’s from a completely different era and has an entirely different design than all the ICEs we have in TSW currently.
     
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  48. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Spot on and for ICE-T that should be paired up with Riesa-Dresden. ICE 4 DB BR412 KWG also HMA with SFS Stuttgart Ulm with Filstalbahn as the diversion route between Stuttgart and Ulm via Göppingen home to Marklin model railways. Marklin does make an ICE 4 as they did with KWG HMA SKA ICE3M ICE3 ICE1
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2023
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  49. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

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    I also agree, since ICEs are very important trains, and would always fit on a typical Hauptstrecke
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2023
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  50. grdaniel48

    grdaniel48 Well-Known Member

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    Frankly speaking, as the ICE 1 was the "star" of TSW3, to have a similar type one - of course much modern - so close to the launch of the 1, it does not have much sense.

    There are lot of more DB trains models - mainly Regional, and Suburban and modern ones- still pending in the game, which I believe it will have more sense to have them first.

    In case of ICE the "T" could be an option before the "4".
    Mainly considering they already have the tilting technology with the DB 612.
    But that is Diesel. An electric one with the panto graph could be a "visual" issue, to be perfectly in touch with the over wires.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2023
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