The Problem With Rivet

Agree with you 100% shg and jt actually fix there issues. Rivet games, not so much compared to the others

 

This is on my purchase list.

 

I think it was said on the stream that dtg were going to do fife circle. But rivet asked if they could do it. (Bad move dtg)
Actually makes me think dtg should have done the route, may have looked better than what rivet gave us.

Rivet need a size ten right out the door.

 

Or they should form part of the TSW “budget” range…

 

Agree to that, However what you say next is this:

Without being offensive but for me these two statements of yours simply do not match to each other. are kind of contradictory.

First you say that Rivet does not meet costumer expectations for route quality, fixes and customer interaction and that people only can change that by voting with their wallets.

However, you decided to give them exactly what they want and kind of made the statement with it, that the route is absolutely okay for 30 pounds with it.

Of course it's up to your own opinion what you do and what you do not buy, but just saying these kind of statements are contradictory to me and if you really think Rivet does not meet quality standards, why did you decided to vote with your wallet then, so that they won't change anything?

I think this is exactly the problem by many members in the community, paying them still while complaining at the same time that nothing is changing.

IMHO, You can decide on which side of the argument you want to be but you can't and most of all shouldn't pretend to be on both.

 

Like most of us I've bought more than a couple of routes that, on reflection, I really should have passed on because I pretty much knew they were not going to meet my expectations and would lack replayability. But I bought them anyway.

It's difficult to explain this phenomenon. Maybe it because we're always looking for something new or we want a particular loco to drive on other routes, or it's a route we know well or live close to in real life and we don't care if it's not high quality. Or we may continue to believe, despite historical evidence to the contrary, that developers will revisit and improve these routes, something which happens only sporadically.


Then again " expectations " are very subjective and I suspect they are lower among the general player community than they are for forum members and so poorly built routes may sell in greater quantities than we anticipate. I think we make a mistake in believing that the forum is a microcosm of the general player base. It's not.

So we will continue to criticize routes, swear we will never buy them or only if they are heavily discounted, and then we cave and make the best of them. Or refund them if we can. Or just leave them on the shelf as I have done with Glossop and BCC.

We're all different in terms of expectations. Up until and including the Rush Hour routes, most every route met or exceeded my expectations and I was a happy camper. But that's changed in the past 2 years. The constant succession of bland commuter routes has been a disappointment. For example, most, if not all of the forum, thought Goblin was akin to their first beer or first loaf of sliced bread. So I bought it. But It didn't meet my expectations. So I refunded it. Go figure.

 

There's plenty of examples of companies that don't meet expectations but you still use them.
My local supermarket offers awful customer service but I still go there because it's in walking distance.
My football team hasn't had a successful season for years but I'm still making a 300 mile round trip to watch them on Monday.
I play TSW on console so it's my only choice for a train sim. Rivet made a British route and a British train that I can use on any route and I can afford it. I can turn a blind eye to the timetable, the landscapes and whatever else the community is unhappy with. I'm happy.
But I can appreciate many people are not happy and have not had their expectations met. It's not about taking sides, I can see both sides. It's called empathy and it's a quality which is sadly rare on these forums.

 

What amazes me is, that there is not a route Rivet have released so far, that doesn’t need fixing in someway and every route lacks the quality we all expect, especially in the route design compared with the real route.

Having lived on the WCL most of my life, it doesn’t resemble the Cornish route at all and that they should rename it to West Country Local. Since it’s release what have Rivet done to improve it. Nothing at all and it’s just the same with the rest of their routes. If you appoint a professional to do work in your home, who delivers a poor unacceptable standard, you would refuse to pay them. Yet Rivet continually issue sub standard releases with a lack quality and yet they get away with it and continue to carry on in the same manner. This should not be allowed! There is always apathy everytime Rivet releases a route among the TSW community, and it is about time Rivet should do something about it to make us all happy and pleased with their work. The only way to do that is to correct all the glaring errors from their previous offerings.

What l would say to Rivet, please do not release another route until you have fixed all the flaws in all of your previous offerings. If you cannot do that, then please don’t release another product for this wonderful game, which you spoil. Your substandard work has been totally unacceptable and it’s about time you corrected it. I am very surprised that DTG allow it to happen.

 

DTG and the rest of the devs know that we are emotional in this hobby.
Instead of going the route of quality, they can cut corners here and there because we will still want that loco or that route. We love trains.
It´s like a blow under the belt or after the round ends. A dirty approach to play with people´s emotions in a way that it produces you income no matter what you put out there.

 

What was the reason for you though to pay it for (almost - if preorder) full price right now, not waiting for a sale or Rivet's actual behavior in terms of upgrades when preorder and first week sales are weak?

I mean paying full price and on first day is a pretty strong argument to say yes to a product or even if I'm sitting on the fence of buying it despite all the critic points, don't you think letting your decision last and maybe save a few pounds would have been better for helping all of your placed arguments?

 

Because I can, and because of the Game Pass discount.
It might be improved next week, next month or never. It might be on sale on Xbox next month, next year or never.
The discount might be £2, £5 or £10.
But between now and then I'll enjoy playing it and will hopefully enjoy it more if and when it's improved.
Robert, I'm flattered by your interest in my decision making. It's clear it differs from yours and that's fine. Time to leave it there I think.

 

Was just curious about your mindset. Well, thanks for answering. Happy Eastern as well, Andrew and Jane.

 

I think the biggest problem is the interval and quantity new routes or trains (by first or third party) come out. Many people buy it regardless of the quality, just to have something new to play with. DTG and third party know this and therefore feel free to sell content of any kind of quality level. And if somebody complains, just go on and wait until the mob is over while watching the dollars drop into their wallets still.

The lack of quantity justifies the lack of quality for them and this business practice seems to work still. It's weird anyway that costumer paying prices in medium up to high class range for mediocracy and unfair to other game developers. I mean just go on Steam and look at the quantity and quality you can get games in the value of 30 bucks for.

30 bucks is almost like paying the base game plus all map DLCs for ETS2 or at least one Forza Horizon base game (when they are on sale) and now compare this to some DLCs offered by Dovetail Games. Building my own route in the Editor, I can see and understand the efforts in creating a route or loco of mediocre quality nonetheless. However, when comparing a TSW DLC to base game(s) or DLCs of other companies, I clearly fail to understand the reason in why products of theirs should be listed by a lower price tag than a product of obviously lower quality and less effort to build it.

It's a strange world with this franchise, apart of any industrial standards. But as a niche game, they and the majority of customers obviously seems to think that's okay. However, we all (devs as well as costumers) should at least be able set down the rosa tinted glasses for one single time.

I think the 2 biggest reasons why Goblin got so many positive and less negative critique in the last weeks, is simply 1. we are not used to the fact that DTG can actually be pretty good at creating scenery and 2. the comparison to Fife Circle which just came out a week later and make it look like a god's gift, despite having severe problems as well.

The biggest one is the length. And as many people already pointed at, yes of course, they can make a route with scenery of better quality but therefore the length was the price to pay for it. The doubt and concern is correct, that DTG probably will never make a route of that quality if it had a standard or longer than standard length.

The time to enhance the scenery of short section, was the time which would have been and will be used for the longer length for other projects. I personally don't see a longer route than 20 km of that level of scenery as on Goblin.

But apart of the scenery, it has it's downsides as well. But people forgot that in the last days because as I already said the issues on Fife Circle clearly made it look as a superior product.

Source?

 

Unfortunately very true. And what makes this situation unacceptable for me, its not that Rivet cant fix it. They just dont want..

Buy i guess they want my money for a next route. Yea forget about that...

Im the customer, Rivet didnt convince me at all. When steam has a 80% sale i might pick this up only because i can use the soundmods of itsya165. I might donate the 20 bucks him, because its not i dont want the route.
The empy depots tells everything about Rivets own vision to their own products...

 

Robert, you can search for them on TrainSimTV The channel is hosted by Tom Harrison and Mark Walker and can be found on Facebook, Twitch and You Tube. Tom puts a lot of effort using Google Maps etc., to get the scenery and trackside buildings like houses etc looking spot on. That’s why Blackpool Branches so good. Rivet can’t be bothered to get the scenery lookout spot on. They do two things, they put any old building in one that doesn’t match what’s in place or they put a load of trees in instead. That’s what you pay your money for. I have no doubt about spending my money on a Just Trains route before it hit the sales, but for Rivet, like the last poster said, wait until it’s 80% off. The comparison is Just Trains are just sublimed and Rivet are ridiculous on route building.

 

l totally agree. meridian#2659 Rivet just don’t want to!

They spend their time creating good locomotives, fantastic stations and replicating superbly the Forth Bridge, but when it comes to replicating the other features along the route, they just don’t do it. In one part their work is really professional and the other main part it is totally amateurish. It’s just like they don’t want to do it right!! What’s more is they are just not bothered as if they were, they would do something about it. They have shown they have got the skills but just don’t totally use them.

What I would want Rivet to do next, is work to bring up to standard all their previous routes starting with WCL, before they venture off into their next project. Make the community happy with improvements to their purchases, then we will have no reason to complain. Become something like Just Trains and show us that you can compete with the rest and on the same level and build up our trust and confidence for the future.

 

That is terribly harsh Steven, I won’t have that. I am a size nine that will do!!

 

According to steam reviews they just put portals on lochgelly for switching between the platforms on foot. Can somebody confirm this shortcut?

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lochgelly_railway_station

 

Lol

 

Can anyone point me to the snarky comments made by the Rivet team

 

Check the 'Enough is Enough: Rivet Games Edition' thread.

 

Whilst I am enjoying playing the Fife Circle Line, the scenery is far from finished and buildings and roads do not resemble the real life situation. I am happy with their efforts in Train Simulator Classic, as I feel that although there are still many errors, it isn’t that important to get the routes spot on, but in TSW there is more interaction with the scenery where you can walk about and their TSC standards are not acceptable in TSW4

l started to think of my top ten worst TSW products to date and Rivet have products in the bottom nine listed with the worst being West Cornwall local. I strongly feel that Rivet should not release another product and should concentrate on bringing all their products up to the standards that we would accept. I am not asking them to make them all to the standard of Brackpool Branches, but feel they need to bring in a top class designer who can improve and make the scenery look more realistic with the actual route.

How should Rivet remedy this situation and renew our trust and confidence first for the future. It’s really quite simple isn’t it!!! They should starting with West Cornwall, work to correct the glaring errors and then continue to improve their other routes. If they cannot do this then they should never produce another route as we all don’t want their shoddy shambolic workmanship in the game as it is totally spoiling TSW4 and their work is totally unacceptable.

The worst products in TSW to date are:

West Cornwall Local
Isle of Wight
Arosa Linie: Chur - Arosa
Island Line Ryde - Shanklin
Edinburgh - Glasgow
Fife Circle Line: Edinburgh - Markinch
Berninalinie: Tirano - Ospizio
Luzern - Sursee
RhB Anniversary Collection
Horseshoe Curve (Not Rivet)

Come on Rivet get your act together and start producing quality. You never know but you may start earning more money if you do!

 

While I'm all in for a critique of Rivet, I'd say the ranking is a bit too against them. DTG have also put out some top tier disasters, that could be fighting for a spot here. The UP Heritage pack probably being the worst DLC ever made.

 

The worst TSW products are Spirit of Steam/West Cornwall Railtour/Peak Forest and it's not even close.

 

I think with DTG it's more the case of unfulfilled potential, where they stopped short of what was needed for a top class route.
SoS - well we all know the history there.
PFR - should at least have run to Derby.
ECW - should have gone to Haywards Heath and Ore.
Oakville - Should have run from Toronto Union to Niagara and they should have lobbied harder with VIA Rail and GO to get a passenger layer in there.
Rapid Transit - Probably still the worst route and train in TSW.
The Class 700 - horribly underused on the Medway bus service and still with appalling sounds.
BCC - Well it's okay but we still have a Birmingham New St devoid of life, unfinished scenery and missing fencing along the canal section and the exclusion of Soho Depot.

 

^^^
BML could have gone to Horsham and West Croydon
ECML could have gone to York
Goblin should have came with NLL

 

Don't forget NY-Trenton. Even with the new timetable, there are so many issues with that route that it is a route I haven't touched in a while

 

Now i understand why DTG drops the steam topic into the trash. TSW wasnt the same either 6 years back and 6 locos in total.

 

That's excessively hard on Bernina, which is actually very good. Just half the oute, but aside from that very well done. Even the train physics for a change.

 

It’s a shame. I don’t mind the Edinburgh Glasgow route overall and I think they did a decent job with it, so they are capable.

 

solicitr, the route isn’t too bad but loses points as it doesn’t go further. Still flaws on the road’s layout and some of the buildings are totally incorrect but it was a better than their latest and better than most of theirs in the past.

 

Which is why I’ll probably wait until it’s eligible for a sale discount. 60% of the route, 40% off the selling price!

 

How appalling does this look. It’s an insult to the Cornish landscape and their people.

As apposed to the real life view of St. Ives!!!

Rivet think there work is acceptable which is the problem. They are unable to remotely get near to getting it right. TSW4 gamers deserve and demand better than this. Don’t we!!! Hotel on the rocks omitted as well as the harbour wall and lighthouse! The replication of St. Ives looks like a fantasy town! The trouble is, that Rivet think that this is totally acceptable and are proud of it!!!

 

Indeed. No one expects a one to one replica by if you’re doing a location as iconic as St Ives, then you need to set the heights a bit higher. Now as someone who freely admits I was totally baffled by the TSW route editor, it still beholdens me to say whoever does Rivet’s UK route building for them, just isn’t very good at it. Oh they get the infrastructure down well enough and obviously their 3D modeller produces the stations. But they just don’t seem to have an eye as to surrounding country and town should look, just slap down this 2002ish MSTS style world.

 

Jeez its not even close.

 

addry#6825. Neither is the whole WCL route. I could put down pictures of the whole route in comparison to their design and it is a mockery, a childish and total fantasy effort!! We should not accept or buy any of Rivets amateurish routes. Locomotives YES Routes NO.

 

This is Rivets view of the buildings on the approach to Burntisland Station.

And the actual buildings at Burntisland.

This is what we pay £29.99 for!!!

 

This is a house seen on Aberdour platform.
This is Rivet’s replication.
Is it so difficult to replicate the original, l am not a graphic designer but l have seen better than this!!!

l love TSW but Rivet do not enhance it.

 

I stupidly bought WCL when it first came out just cause I like the 150 I wish I never did now

 

Many of us have worn the sackcloth and ashes over that one!

 

Oakville Subdivision robbed

 

Indeed I haven't bought anything from Rivet since and refuse to unless they improve things but judging by there previous record that's unlikely to happen

 

Following reading all the reviews of FCL on here and other places I shan't be buying until it gets a decent discount or the 158 gets added properly and the timetable gets improved. I've been driving this route on TSC with RW Enhancer 2 installed and having a great time driving 170's, 158's and 68's. From what I have seen in many ways the Rivet route looks a downgrade to RW Enhancer 2 on the older game. No empty fields with 2d textures in that one. So I'm going to play the long game and refuse to reward Rivet with a full price purchase. Vote with my wallet.

 

Things that close to the track deserve to be decent renditions, I get that the detail can reduce as it gets further from the driving position, but that is unforgivable.

 

Thank you deeuu#6908 It’s good to know l am not the only one feeling that.

Hi Guys in the community, but l didn’t start this thread but have added my comments. I also commented on Rivets forum and received from them an email stating “You have received an infraction at Rivet Forums. Reason: Spam”

What a way to treat your customers. If their scenery replication was good l wouldn't be complaining. I am full of praise for their locomotives and their excellent forth bridge work, but in WCL they replicated the well know Pedn-olva hotel in the beautiful St. Ives



to look like this. Quite frankly l have seen better on a five year old’s school room wall.



To me this is totally unacceptable and Rivet have never done anything to improve their work, following on from any comment as they think it is alright and acceptable and we pay good money to receive their poor workmanship.

Rivet l won’t add further comments unless you don’t improve your work to an acceptable standard. Bring it up to the standards of Blackpool Branches and the London Overground and l won’t complain at all. Isn’t that what we all want from Rivet Games.

 

At least if we offer constructive criticism here, DTG allow it. But by taking such action against quite valid feedback Rivet basically seal their fate. As I’ve said before, whoever is in charge of third party contracts at DTG needs to grow a pair and tell them to raise their quality or risk being denied further access to the programme. Time for the stick not the carrot.

 

That’s absolutely disgraceful.

 

It's not the first time that Rivet has had quality problems or released inferior DLC. Let's take 'ScotRail Express: Edinburgh - Glasgow' as an example, which in my opinion has the same design problems as the current FCL. Then there was the terribly bad Class 385, whose sound was really bad and hasn't had an update to date (with the sound mod it's at least acceptable). The scenery has not been updated either, so we can really assume that FCL will no longer be touched to the same extent as Skyhook did with MML.

That sounds familiar to everyone, right:




Copy and paste...


So ugly...



It really looks like this everywhere...





These are just as bad 2D textures as in the FCL and everything looks like it did in MSTS times...


I just don't want to see something like that in a full-price DLC anymore and I'm not willing to spend money on something like that. There is another way, as several DLCs have now proven, most recently DTG itself with Vorarlberg or Goblin.

 

100% agree