I didn't mean there was negativity specifically about WCML North. I meant that the sentiment towards the game in general is still negative, despite the great routes we've been getting. And I didn't "conveniently ignore" WCML South. Believe it or not I actually really like the route, warts and all. It'll only improve after the update. I'm never going to use an "ignore" feature. Burying my head in the sand and to shut myself off from other's opinions isn't constructive. Everyone is acting like the game is the worst it's ever been, and I simply think that isn't true. I'm not claiming it's perfect, I'd still like to see steam make a comeback. However the game is the best it's ever been.
Fair. but that is how I see it. I would still like to have it one day to add to the railscene on the San Bernadino line. I meant that more as I have less interest towards american stuff and it didn't look like something special to me, I might have worded that badly I see now. I'm not making threads to beg DTG to make something else that I enjoy instead of that loco though. I have said numerous times over the last year that american content should get a boost as it is being left behind. Next to TSW I am enjoying Railroader a lot so who knows, maybe I'll get to understand and enjoy american railroading more because of it.
These forums have been generally negative since I joined them. I think generally those who are unhappy tend to be vocal and most who enjoy the sim tend to stay quiet. I am sure the majority of posters want TSW to be a success some show different ways of expressing it. There are some posters who are relentlessly negative, ones where you see a negative thread and you know who will post in it. Those are the ones I have trouble believing even use the sim. This sim isn't perfect and some decisions by developers I find baffling but for me TSW5 is the best TSW has been. I am looking forward to the new countries which are coming. I do feel there isn't enough variety in DLC, particularly for UK DLC but also for US DLC. Routes like Shap are likely to be once a year and whilst I love driving a whole variety of trains even I am getting a little bit tired of modern EMU routes. Dropping steam has been the most egregious decision from my perspective.
Personally I can understand that one DLC is not going to save people's opinion on the game, then the negativity towards the game has several reasons than the DLCs (for example: some decisions of DTG, the prices...). And I think that critical is not a bad thing as long as it is not threats and too extreme if it is constructive at least a little (no need to write a block of text either, just give your opinion) , if there is too much criticism and it makes the forum "negative" I think the problem is not just the community.
I totally agree with this statement as there are a number of people on here who will crucify content without even playing it or seeing the final version of it; a prime example being Fife Circle which, admittedly, looked hideous in the previews BUT by release had lost a considerable amount of it's hideousness, to the point that I (and a number of others) actually really like it as a route. However, I still see people blindly criticizing it and saying "have you seen that horrible grey cube at Burnt Island?" or "there's a horrible pink blocky monstrosity before you get to Markinch". I guess the point is that people who feel annoyed, ripped off or sold short will always complain loudly (and rightly so!), those that get what they expected will generally be content and will only raise their voces if they feel that their contentment could be escalated to elation given one or two changes/ updates..... which then triggers the annoyed people again.....
While I am disappointed that the route doesn't include Clapham Junction or Richmond and will probably be quiet at Stratfprd, at least until we get DLC that can offer layers, I recognize that this route is being made by one third-party developer for his first route in a hard-to-learn editor. Instead of criticising the developer, maybe we should be happy that DTG released the editor publically, and as a result, we got more third-party developers.
Reminds me of the Edinburgh/Glasgow thread recently where Matt asked for the actual bugs which was followed by radio silence before someone said some of the lights didn't work in the cab and the blind had to be pulled down from an incorrect location. It is a difficult line to balance between constructive criticism and "moaning" whinging. I have no interest in Shap in the 80's. None at all, trains are LOVE, 20 odd miles inbetween stations, only part of Shap is actually interesting to look at, a lot of the route is quite bland. If I had made this point over, over, over, over and over again for the 6 months it was announced then would people be accusing me of "constructive" criticism. I doubt it. I remember when Glossip was announced and the feedback thread was derailed constantly by folk going on about how it needed to have been set in the 60's, should have gone to Woodhead should have been steam etc. It gets tiring as someone who just wants updates on a route that interests me. It is a game and therefore has limitations. Everyone wants it to be better and without negative/constructive opinions it won't be and as I said it is a very fine line between that and moaning for moaning sake, which there is still a fair bit of.
Perhaps a thread listing all the many, many bugs and errors in the game would be useful to stop claims like this...
Here is the first post from "Friendly reminder Edinburgh Glasgow remains very Broken" Dear Rivet, please fix this dog's dinner of a route and train. It's on your doorstep for your Stirling studio so it really deserves better. Is that constructive criticism/feedback? I'm not a fan of the route, and judging by the replies not many are but all this did was encourage another Rivet pile on.
This community is great overall, most games don't have discussion forums at all anymore or any kind of interaction. But one of the biggest issues a lot of people have is expecting that EVERY announcement, EVERY train, and EVERY route should be exactly what THEY want. And thinking what they want is exactly what everyone else wants. Ignoring that thousands of people probably play this game and devs are catering to a lot of people that want to focus on different things. Just because something is not exactly what you want, we don't need a 3 page essay about that, don't buy the stuff you aren't interested in and wait for something you're interested in. Its pretty clear the type of cycle that DTG operates under.
I kind of get where your coming from, as I do see specific posts of people demanding specific locomotive and routes when new content is released. And it irritates me because of the entitlement of it... But, I would argue, where do you you draw a distinction? For example with the most recent announcement of The partial NLL, players (me included) argued that it shouldn't be released as a partial routes. We wasn't sulking or asking for another route or locomotive. But we were asking why it would be a logical conclusion to release a partial part of a very small line. And I would argue, the reason players were kicking up a stink more so, was because it is a very popular and much requested line, and people wanted to enjoy the benefits of it, rather then a partial section. The solo developer thing has been debated to death so I'm not after that... The criticism from that to me was very important feedback and message to DTG that very short routes need to have either end to end running where possible, or logical start and end points. And also if it's something you do want to buy, but you get a partial section of it, it's a valid criticism because there's a fear that line won't be revisited or extended. So I would like to draw a distinction between criticism and some of the self entitled bratty attitudes. I don't them to be mixed together and classified as the same thing, because they are not and it's important to make that distinction clear and understand the difference.
My opinion, the critic should never be personal, thats a nogo. But lets be honest, if you pay 40 bucks as a customer, and realize you just gave the money for being a beta tester. On top maybe some excuses from devs, or devs not comming back to fix bugs, then i understand the frustration of players who dont reply every feedback in a polite "constructive" way, but instead just say when things are not right. For me thats ok as long its not getting personal.
Complaints are fine and very justified. Just depends on how you phrase your complaint. And a good debate about things from different peoples views is not a bad thing, or to have a disagreement about a subject is fine as well. It not always bickering. However I do think there are some pretty over critical, closed minded, toxic users on here now, nowhere close to being anything near a majority or a serious issue on these forums. And yes therer are more than there was a few years ago, but so has the player base increased. I may give a response to someone if I have a different opinion, or believe with confidence I know an answer to a question. I never mean to offend someone and I hope I haven't. I just try to treat it like a radio/TV station if I don't like someones reply or comments i just move on to the next and really not try to engage. And its not an issue. I've had alot of questions answered by others on these forums, and had my opinion changed by people as well. So I am grateful we have this community.
