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This Is The Worst Game Ever. I Need A Refund

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by GlastonburyGabriel, Oct 28, 2020.

  1. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    The only downside is the combined throttle/brake lever. Don't get too used to this, as quite a few trains have a seperate brake lever. :P
     
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  2. Class395

    Class395 Active Member

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    Yep but that's just the Locomotive hauled services, if I'm not mistaken all electric multiple units have combined traction/brake controllers (the Talent 2 has a separate brake lever which is only used for stabling the train) ;)
     
  3. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Yeah :) I miss a hotkey in TSW that would reset the position of the throttle / other levers.
     
  4. federicodiliberto2001

    federicodiliberto2001 Well-Known Member

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    Either that https://live.dovetailgames.com/live/train-sim-world/articles/article/tsw-help or one of the first results of [Train/Route Name Here] TSW Manual on google... it's not that crazy or illogical is it?
     
  5. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Most modern European EMUs have a combined throttle/brake lever indeed. However, most DMUs, locomotives and American trains do not. It easier to familiarize yourself with driving with a seperate throttle/brake levers, and then operate combined throttle/brake levers, than vice versa.

    For Train Simulator I always recommend new players to get started with an British passenger train with a seperate throttle/brake lever, and practise some stopping on platforms. Passenger trains are forgiving to play because the can brake considerably faster than freight trains, familiarizing yourself with a seperate throttle/brake lever means you can pretty much operate any train, and the British signalling system if by far the easiest one to understand.
     
  6. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    Actually I would be super down to just make short clips for YouTube with each loco showing how to get them operational. I just don't have a video editing program but might just experiment a little. I am sure you can fit them easily into a maximum of 5 min
     
  7. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Hi Michael. I have a bit of spare time today so will record the setup of those and show you how to do it.

    To be fair, I should have added the Caveat to my point being that the US locos can be more complicated. If you search for the CSX HH manual there is actually quite a bit of info in there that might help. Once I’ve recorded, edited, uploaded and waited for YouTube to process the video I’ll link it on this thread.
     
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  8. 59321747

    59321747 Active Member

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    I think ts2021 is suitable for you. Why not give it a try
     
  9. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    wait till we get 1st and 2nd generation BR EMUs ;)
     
  10. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    From the "pro-tips" cycle for beginners: in most cases, it will not be possible to start unless the train is fully* un-braked - all levers in the released position and the correct pressure in the Brake Pipe (BP) & Brake Cylinder (BC). In simple words: that red quadrant on the HUD must be white before we move the throttle. If we rush too much - slide the throttle to idle (reset), make sure once again, the brakes have released, then start adding power.

    throotle.locked.png

    * sometimes it takes a while
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2020
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  11. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    The lack of manual is odd, with every TS1 piece of DLC you get one so not sure why there isn't with TSW products.
    The 313 might not be far away.

    I have the AP one in TS1 and as usual I didn't read the manual and couldn't get it to move despite several attempts. I read the manual and discovered why, there were quite a few extra steps compared to a usual TS1 offering.
     
  12. Maxboy444

    Maxboy444 Member

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    Ikr its not that hard
     
  13. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    That's because AP are trying to put that realism in.
    With most DTG efforts there's no master key, no power or brake locking, only the AWS alerter etc (I think PDL and the 45x units are the only ones which have the E key as DSD cancel)
     
  14. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I realise that, I was just demonstrating that not reading the manual, which I am regularly guilty of can leave you stuck!
     
  15. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. Luckily DTG are actually making them for TSW now
     
  16. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    I hope they will do it not only by route but also by issues, such as PZB Manual.
     
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  17. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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  18. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully you're not the only person reading this post, so what people are saying is then helpful, if not exactly what you require
     
  19. federicodiliberto2001

    federicodiliberto2001 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry for being rude but I mean not only every now and again people come asking for manuals in this same forum, not only they can be found on Train Sim World 2 website, they would pop up if you spent 25 seconds on google and still people complain about the fact they are unfindable and I was kind of fed up.

    So, I'm sorry, this is my last post on this thread which IMO is not going nowhere and I don't want to help some mod to close it because it's starting to become a war. I'm sure nobody will miss me
     
  20. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    PS Cause they need more time just to make things right... yhyhyhyhy :D
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2020
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  21. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    I love TS20xx too. And for the exact reason you say, it can be made as easy and hard as you want. TSW you can't do that (as far as I know). So if you want to play a relaxed game, play TS. I'm not saying TSW2 can't be relaxing, but it requires a more effort than just releasing the brakes and applying some throttle.

    This is my last word on this, I don't want this turning into a huge argument..
     
  22. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Of course you don't even have to drive in TSW. It is quite relaxing walking the track bed of say the IOW and getting on a train at the next station and going for a ride. Of course I realise that isn't everyones cup of tea!
     
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  23. KyleL

    KyleL Well-Known Member

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    Alright so I decided to do some investigating it seems like the thread creator is Gabriel a known forum troll :D
    Sam had deleted the Message but I found this quote. The message was from Luke the community manager before Dmitri came. & if you look at the thread creators name it also includes the name Gabriel. That's all I had to say really I just needed a reason to have my tin foil hat on :D
    So I'll tell you something if you want to feed the green troll under the bridge by responding to this thread then do so I advise you not to really Screenshot 2020-10-29 at 10.41.15 AM.jpg Screenshot 2020-10-29 at 10.40.57 AM.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2020
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  24. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    And I thought only Sam and Victoria had their little secrets ...
     
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  25. Class395

    Class395 Active Member

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    We all got played
     
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  26. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    In this whole thread the OP only posted the OP and then it devolved from there amongst existing users/players. so if it is a troll then fair play, they are better at trolling than driving an ICE3M.
     
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  27. michael hooley

    michael hooley Active Member

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    Troll (whatever that is) or not I have learned a hell of a lot more from this topic than any other, the forum has never been more active.

    Mike
     
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  28. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    Right Michael, here we go!

    Health warning....I'm not a train driver but do have experience in operating complex machines that move people from A to B and this is the way I simulate driving these trains. I don't claim that it's entirely correct but to the best of my knowledge it is. A couple of things to also note regarding locos rather than EMU/DMU's:

    - Locos tend to have at least 2, often 3 types of brakes available to them. There is the Independent/Loco brake which is the brake for the unit you're in. There is the automatic/train brake which, you guessed it, provides braking along the whole consist. Finally, there is the dynamic brake, which uses the locomotives engine to provide a counter-force to slow down. The locos in SPG have all 3, the Class 37 (as an example) only has the first 2.
    - TSW simulates these brakes and as far as the US locos go, they will often be disabled when you start a scenario or service. You are required to 'cut-in' the brakes (read 'activate' them) and you are also required to set your loco into the correct mode. These things are mentioned in the CSX tutorials (albeit briefly), which are streets ahead of any other tutorials in the game.
    - Finally, these are long and heavy trains. When you release the automatic brake the air vents along, potentially, a mile long consist to release the brakes. That takes time (as you'll see in the GP38 demo). Once the brakes are released and you apply power remember that you only initially apply enough to pull the couplers tight (remember, heavy long consists). Once they are taking the load then you can add power, bit by bit until you get going.

    I hope that makes sense, and no doubt someone will be along shortly to tell me I'm talking a load of old horlicks. Anyway, here are the two services you mentioned. I really hope this helps you and prevents you from throwing your PC out of the window!

    Cheers.

    This is a quick video to demonstrate 2 specific loco/service combinations. If anyone is interested I might consider doing some tutorial videos myself, explaining TSW's locos and signalling systems to a decent enough level for your average player. Let me know if that's the case.

     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2020
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  29. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    This is at best, partially true. There are manuals for some TSW2020 trains, but that's not what people take issue with. The concern is for the numerous routes and train that there are none for. So yes, there are SOME manuals for SOME TSW2 content. But there are still numerous ones missing, mostly since the switch to TSW2.
     
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  30. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    A troll is a term for someone on internet chats and forums who makes controversial/rude/upsetting/etc. comments for the purpose of watching people get upset and angry. They take joy in "stirring the pot" so to speak because they know that certain comments will cause arguments, etc. They like to watch the world burn. It's even been turned into a verb, "to troll" and you can talk about someone, "trolling".

    An example might be someone who goes to a Trainz forum and starts a topic about why Trainz sucks and TSW2 is so much better. They're not looking for an actual discussion, they're just looking to get a reaction out of people for the fun of it. Or perhaps someone who posts a pro-Trump photo or meme on a heavily liberal forum.

    You'll often read or hear the expression of, "don't feed the troll" which is a call to others to ignore the person making the controversial or upsetting comment because by trying to reason with or argue with them, you're giving them what they want. Trolls die when they are ignored.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2020
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  31. federicodiliberto2001

    federicodiliberto2001 Well-Known Member

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    I agree, the manuals are mostly bad and not in depth, but the discussion was not about are the manuals good/bad but they are easy to find. Even if you type "Koln Aachen TSW Manual" it will direct you to DTG's manual page with all the links...
     
  32. michael hooley

    michael hooley Active Member

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    Thank You Hightower, I will print that off and learn it, you have already been a great help, thanks too from my computer Lol.

    Mike
     
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  33. michael hooley

    michael hooley Active Member

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    Thanks Matt, I can now impress my son Lol.

    Mike
     
  34. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    Whether the intention or not, the OP started a good conversation, so if it was a troll it was also a fail.
     
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  35. paulgregs

    paulgregs Active Member

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    I really miss reading printed manuals on the toilet....

    God.... Those were the days....
     
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  36. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Ooh who is Victoria?
     
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  37. Class395

    Class395 Active Member

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    Victoria's Secret lol
     
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  38. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Of of course lol. I wondered if it was some dalliance Sam was having!
     
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  39. michael hooley

    michael hooley Active Member

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    Come on guy's don't ruin a great thread by going off topic.

    Mike
     
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  40. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Too late lol
    Been through three or four topics already
     
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  41. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Actually, forget it. I just tried two of the locos on Sand Patch Grade, and I couldn't get them to move. Well, I guess I got one to move at 0.6mph in notch 3, but a train with 2 locos on the front and 2 locos on the rear should definately not have such a struggle to get out of Cumberland Yard (which is pretty flat). It looked like somewhere in the train the brakes were still on, but I've checked all four locomotives and the independant brake was off in each of them. Haven't been able to find the handbrake on all the wagons and locos though.

    So, even with my 2400+ hours of experience in Train Simulator, 700 hours of experience in TSW2020, and 55 hours in TSW2, I don't know what's wrong. I also have no clue who at the DTG office considered it'd be a smart idea to include such a complicated DLC in the base package of TSW2 to confront new players with. This is by far the worst experience I've had in TSW2. All other routes I've played (and I do have a fair amount of DLC) are considerably easier to get into, and have far better tutorials. If it were up to me, I'd immediately throw out Sand Patch Grade and swap it for something like Peninsula Corridor.

    I'll see if I can get a video up with the GP38-2 from Peninsula Corridor. I remember that loco being considerably less complicated to set up. I don't dare to make any promises though. Sand Patch Grade was actually doable in TSW2020, but something during the "upgrade" to TSW2 changed things, and not for the better. I guess I'm gonna find out if the GP38-2 from Peninsula Corridor is still the same good old loco from TSW2020. :P
     
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  42. michael hooley

    michael hooley Active Member

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    And I thought it was an age thing Lol. thanks Purno I really appreciate you trying.

    Mike
     
  43. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    For trains with helper locos at the back, turn on Banking Comm in the lead (front) loco (it’s a black box with yellow buttons), in addition to setting up that loco as usual. It’s that simple, but it’s not in any in-game instructions or any manual.
     
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  44. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    There are numerous threads and posts on this subject. We need a proper search function so members can easily find them.
     
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  45. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    No, we need proper tutorials and have proper services were trains are set up or proper instructions are given, so people don't have to rely on a forum to find the info they need to get one of the base games locomotives moving.
     
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  46. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    SPG has the best manual and the best tutorials in the game. Using those I (with zero prior knowledge of trains) and plenty of others have figured it out.

    I’d wager you’re falling foul of the same issue Michael had. It’s all about the brakes. Read my post, watch the video (it’s 5 minutes max) & I’ll bet you will be just fine.

    Don’t rant at DTG for actually simulating something correctly!
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
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  47. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    They can have the loco set up correctly, or give proper instructions, without messing up the simulation. A loco with the buttons and switches in the correct position is still a well simulated locomotive.
     
  48. hightower

    hightower Well-Known Member

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    It is, but there are a lot of people who want cold & dark setups and who dislike every service starting with the thing already running and setup, me included.

    It is literally one or two steps you’re missing out, trust me.
     
  49. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I know there's a demand for cold & dark with accurate start up procedures. There's also a demand for ready to roll locomotives. The thing is there's no consistency in the approach DTG takes, and whatever option DTG has chosen, cannot be overruled by a users own preference.
    Additionally, with SPG having the most complex start up procedures, one could wonder if that's the thing you'd want in your base game package. Good old Train Simulator had a "pro range" series of DLC for those kind of things, were users were warned that these trains were more complex than the average 'ready to roll' locomotives from most DLC.

    Now it would be helpful if the start up procedures that need to be followed were actually written out step-by-step in a manual, which can be consulted during the game. You know, just like good old Train Simulator has.

    TSW is a game for people with different skill levels and different preferences. I'm sure DTG can make things more accessible without making them less realistic, and considering all safety systems are optional, I don't see why they don't do the same with start up procedures. They could have a simple "cold start" toggle option before one starts a service. They could also have an ingame checklist for each service, so that whenever you run into problems, the game can automatically check for you if you've got everything set up correctly. I believe these kind of checklists are pretty common in accessible flight simulators.
     
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  50. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    It's a simple enough thing to do, and AP do it very well in their manuals

    Have a "Cold and dark" section which details exactly what operations to undertake in what order to get the unit powered up and ready to actually put into operation
    Then have a "getting it moving" section which is the normal procedure to get from "just walking into the cab of a started machine to getting it moving"

    So for most cases, read only the second bit, for C&D read the first and then the second

    But it starts with having a manual in the first place
     
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