Thoughts On Train Simulator Classic's Current State

^ This.

 

tl:dr It would be nice if DTG could put out a periodic roadmap for TSC in the same way they do for TSW. Fixes and core updates, any forthcoming confirmed third party DLC. There was a flurry of activity a few months back when someone on the TSC side asked what could be improved but since then not much at all.

Although I probably spend the lions share of my time in TSW these days, TSC does get fired up from time to time. Bought a few items in the last sale which I’ve hardly touched and just yesterday evening had a blast on WCML North and over Shap with the 86 and 87. Though I think the 86 needs the AP sound pack, roll on the next sale!

What TSC needs is a bit of an interface overhaul. Simplify the menu screen to prevent the endless scrolling through lists. Make it easier to resume the last saved run again without having to trawl through the lists and try to remember the scenario name. Certainly optimise loading times, even changing from the career to standard tabs can take 30 seconds and then there’s the constant popping up to tell you loading Workshop scenarios. Do it once on start up, not every time you finish a scenario or change screens. Beyond that, well we are getting into territory that DTG are unlikely to entertain as it would cut into TSW too much, like extended comprehensive timetables.

 

It would be nice to know what DTG's plans are for TSC. Clearly they expect it to be on sale for a few years as they are investing resources in developing it. So far these seem to be around code efficiency and compatibility with current versions of utilities and plug-ins. This is welcomed by me, but I'd like to know if any new functionality is planned, or improvements to existing. Shadow draw distance, user controllable, comes to mind.

 

I think in particular what elements from the beta stream have been decreed a success and will be incorporated (and when) into the stable retail build.

 

One utility I would like to see is a “clean up” tool, to deal with route and asset removal particularly stuff obtained outside of Steam.

Decided to do a complete spring clean of TSC, loads of content which I’ve never really played or had for testing but just deleting the route folders doesn’t clear out the assets. It’s also in my main Steam folder on the C Drive which is not the best place to have 250Gb plus of game. So uninstall, delete the folder and reinstall on the E or F drive and in addition to leaving off the unwanted content also select the installed DLC more carefully, omit the routes I’m unlikely to play, ideally get the install down to < 150Gb.

While I know Steam offers a utility to move game installs to another drive, neither it, TSC or even RW Tools offer an intelligent content and asset manager which removes no longer needed assets without borking other content that might need it.

 

Sounds like it would be best to wipe everything and add only the content you want. TSC will then run a little faster

 

That’s the plan. Untick most of the DLC apart from the essentials before installing then take it a bit at a time. As discussed in a thread over in the TSW forum that also speeds up Steam’s initial verification of installed files.

 

It is better than the TSW4 rubbish, which has not been on my pc. From two weeks after i purchased it on release.
I run TSC all the time, never even think about the other game. Apart from how much money i wasted on it from TSW1 onwards.
I would like to see more stability in TSC, but other than that. An AI drive function that works without hacks, allowing players to ride the cushions, as per Trainz and OR.

 

I tried most TSW versions (From TSW to TSW3) I still prefer TS Classics. Personally I find TSW bit unrealistic in terms of simulation and train handling - Yes visuals are better in TSW but miles away in terms of physics and sounds. Plus route availability and stocks choice are more in TSC then TSW (For me at least). I don't even have TSW installed on my drive anymore.

 

You have a lovely p*ssy, Vern.

 

Actually not ours. It's one of George, the station cat at Stourbridge Junction which popped up on Facebook!

 

My short answer: TS is the best it's ever been in terms of stability. And development goes on

 

Wow spooky Vern, my indoor kitty is called George. Nearly 6 yrs old now, piccie from when he was about 3 months.

 

There is something for everyone in this game. Keeping as many options for content keeps this game alive. Everyone has an opinion on content, quality and price. Value lies within the individual. Your opinion is your truth.

 

In its current state I have no problems with it. Visually it's a bit outdated but a lot more immersive than tsw. The quality of some routes can be argued but with a editor and no cooked content, I'm free to make corrections.

 

Stability remains a problem for me with frequent crashes and memory errors. Once I make it into a scenario or quickdrive it’s fine, but the main menu and scenario list freeze up quite a bit. I’m trying to prune unused DLC but other than that, any suggestions?

 

It's down to corrupt assets, I suspect you're a long time player with a large collection. There's bad files hidden in freeware - sometimes even in payware.

Use Logmate.exe, it will tell you what it has problems with. A lot of invalid blueprints out there...

 

Only since the pandemic, but I certainly made up for lost time. I’ll give this a try, thanks.

 

Yeah...but we used to call that "good PC file and folder management"... it's got nowt to do with DTG if what you've installed from elsewhere buggers things up

 

So how can you say it's rubbish?

 

I'm not sure if you mean that the game freezes when playing it or in the menus. If it's the latter it's just what happens with TS, you need to give it a moment to think when clicking Drive.

 

Who said anything about buggering things up? The point being if I install a freeware route that brings in a dozen or more different dependent asset authors, some of which I might already have and need for other routes, some of which apply only to the route in question there's no easy way of clearing out the trash when you decide to remove the route. Could be months later and yes you could use RW Tools to trawl through maybe 100's of dependencies but that is Chinese torture quite frankly. The route file itself is generally small change as regards HD footprint as opposed to kicking out scores of assets you no longer need. Which is why I resorted to the nuclear option of uninstalling the game, deleting its folder and starting again from scratch.

I've been playing around with PC's since first buying an Amiga 600 in 1992, so fairly savvy when it comes to "file and folder management".

 

If there's no issues with freeware assets I'm keeping them all. It doesn't slow your game down, game launch time only depends on number of scenarios installed.

The good thing is, for each freeware route I'm now downloading I've already got most assets needed. Removing some just to discover I need them for another route is not what I want, so if they're not corrupt, I'm glad to have a growing library allowing me to enjoy even more routes.

Will swap my 1TB RailWorks M.2 for a 2TB (ought to be enough for everybody) as I'm close to its limit already....

... 38911 BASIC BYTES FREE

 

In the brief history of computing, only a handful of applications have been perfect right from the start. These applications had everything necessary, and despite minor flaws, they didn't need a succesor, they simply needed to evolve over time. In my view, Train Simulator is one of these exceptional cases!

 

Quite easily.........it's rubbish........... there you go.

 

With ts I think it's more about the hardware. I've got a fairly decent setup and it's trouble free for me. Most of the problems for me went away when I got decent ram.

 

I still wonder if DTG is ever going to produce in-house content (routes and trains) for Train Sim Classic again. RSSLO just does not cut it for me on the German side of things and the last couple of German routes by DTG (Karlsruhe, Leipzig, Dresden, Pegnitz) were very good.
After over a year of core updating, I still don´t notice any huge difference in me game experience. Sometimes I wish, they just kept producing DLC.

 

I know I’m going to open up a festering wound here. I have recently been acquiring ATS scenarios and using their loader. From what I have seen so far it is an interesting application which keeps a real time list of all ATS routes and scenarios (paid content only). I personally have been impressed. I recognize that this will not be to everyone’s approval. At least ATS is trying to provide content.
Respectfully

 

You must be one of those who have not had problems with that stupid ATS Installer.
Lots of problems reported on Facebook with it.

I don't understand why they don't use the normal exe files.
Even Just Trains products purchased thru ATS have to be installed via the ATS Installer

I wonder what would happen if a Just Trains product was purchased thru ATS and if the person wished to reinstall the product if their subscription had expired?

 

Valid point. Your best option is to install to dummy folders (rename RailWorks folder to something else and make a new empty RailWorks folder temporarily, and then make a zip of installed content. Back that up.

 

There are 2 versions of the ATS product. The Launcher and the Installer. The Launcher is the newer product which only has ATS product displayed and will provide easy install and give latest version info. The Installer is the old software which requires a drop zone and is painful. I am guessing not many people actually buy the ATS only DLC (ChatMoss, Overhead Lines, 745, 185, ATS purchased scenarios). These are the only ones controlled by the new ATS Launcher. This method for me was interesting and seemed like a move in the right direction. It seems like ATS is positioning themselves to provide more UK scenarios and DLC using this new mechanism.
Respectfully

 

Not true - I have most of my Just Trains products through ATS and they all use a Just Trains installer( though I’ve also had problems with these).

Agree though the new ATS installer is not a good thing. It had a lot of bugs in the early days and even though it works fine for me now, I don’t like it.

Whenever I get something new, I install it, back it up and then remove the installer again.

Aside from it being unnecessary, I also don’t like the user interface. Lots of unnecessary option and in my opinion poor design.

Whike I don’t like it. Can’t fault ATS’s handling of my issues. They’ve always had me up and running within 24 hours.

 

Just want to correct some misperceptions in this post - not trying to pick a fight, simply in the interests of accuracy. For the record, I have an ATS subscription and own a number of their products, and I have uploaded some of my own freeware scenarios to the site. The Launcher had a rocky start, but I've had no issues personally with the last few versions. I have no strong opinions about it to be honest.

If you buy a JT product from the site, the download is the usual .exe installer. These are supplied by JT to ATS. I checked my account before posting this, and when I go to the JT Sheffield to Derby route that I bought from there, I can download the .exe installer, same as ever. The ATS Launcher only includes products made by ATS and WTT Scenarios (who sell their wares via the ATS website).

You do not need a paid subscription to buy and download payware or freeware from the ATS site, nor is it needed if you want to upload and share your own work. Download speeds for non-subscribers are not throttled. I don't think this has ever been explained very well though, and there seems to be a lot of misinformation around about what a subscription does or does not do. The paid subscription grants access to a small number of subware routes and scenarios, and gives a discount on payware products. That's it. If my sub expired tomorrow, I could still download and update all my purchases, and access all the freeware on the site.

 

How is all this ATS stuff relevant to the state of TSC?
Sure, there is always a connection, just how it's possible to exemplify Milepost or Searchlight in the context of Feather River.
I understand that these forums are a melting pot for all 3rd party discussions, and maybe it is expected for all topics to evolve to eventually mention them. Considering at this moment it's the only source of TSC content.
But I can't help but feel the same way on these forums as traveling next to a businessman. "Oh, by the way, did you know that there is this fantastic solution to your problem, this product, I happen to be affiliated, so anyway, it is what you need, it..."

 

There appears to be a general desire for DTG to publish their own TSC content. This currently seems to be elusive due to the observed redo of the TS core and the developer focus on TSW. The next logical step is to be aware of current TSC content being developed by 3rd parties. In my opinion TSW does not fulfill my needs hence the outreach to see what other opportunities are available. ATS is one of these which appears to be sustaining the effort. JT appears to be focused more on TSW.
Respectfully

 

This thread https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/tsgs-konstanz-villingen-route-in-tsw.81024/ asserts that a “bespoke” German route is not profitable in TSC and that scares off third party devs. I actually do like RSSLO’s stuff - since I care more about the track than the scenery - but can see how it might not work for the high end consumer.

 

Then why are RSSLO, Bahnjahn, ATS and some others still doing payware routes in TSC?

They are okay and I´m happy we have them. I do enjoy Passau-Regensburg and think it´s well made. The Highspeed Line Nürnbürg-München was a real let down though.
DTG brought some old TSC routes over to TSW in the past (Hagen-Siegen, Dresden-Riesa). I know, they can´t convert and need to build from scratch... but I guess they can reuse the 3D models? I would love to see DTG do some TSW routes (Kassel-Würzburg, Bochum-Duisburg, Wuppertal-Hagen) in TSC! That would be great.

 

I would love to see the Cathcart Circle in TSC

 

RSSLO - speed route builders reusing a restricted library of assets. Horrible signalling. All routes look and feel the same.
Bahnjan - passion projects. Can take his time to develop for some reasons. Delivers first class addons.
ATS - mostly reworking stuff and a profitable subscription model

So I think stuff like Münster-Bremen or Hausach-Konstanz are of a size that's unlikely to happen again - only as freeware projects. Glad all these things have been done

For TSW, things are different. Development is slow and costly. And routes will be revisited and reworked by the look of things, no signs of expansion to other countries.

 

That hasn’t been my experience. The signals, speed boards, etc all seem to work pretty well. Can’t argue with the routes looking the same, though.

 

Don't forget Railworks Austria with their generally very good Eastern main line payware.

 

You'll see when trying to make your own scenarios there...

 

There is a “hack” to circumvent some of their slow signalling. Or rather, i found the cause of it, and take it into account when building scenarios.

 

Could you please explain or point me to where I can find out more about this? I'm trying to create some Railjet scenarios on the Südbahn and there's one or two signals not clearing when they should, and seemingly not responding to a tab (could be an error on my part too, it's my first go at making a scenario outside the UK).

 

Unfortunately that’s the worst of the lot. I often think this is the route people are really having in mind when speaking of bad rsslo signaling. It’s like the signal scripts are simply broken on this one. Such a shame because i really like the route otherwise.

 

Darn it, there's so many good scenarios could be made on that route, especially the merged version. The only community route upgrade I could find used RWA's very expensive Nordbahn so I guess I'm going to have to give up on this which is a pity.

 

"RWA's very expensive Nordbahn". Huh?

 

RailWorksAustria. Who was first? Right, you. They entered in 2012.

 

Does not matter who was first. More confusion is more fun !

PS: Of course the American RWA is the original, bigger and better

 

I don't mind RSSLO Signals as I can at least see them when driving
The Signals on Frankfurt - Koblenz are difficult to read - which is strange as they appear to be the same as other DB Signals.