Time To Speculate On The New Uk Route

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by chieflongshin, Dec 30, 2021.

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  1. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    35 to 40 minutes tends to be my average session, particularly driving fast as otherwise it’s too much close focus on the screen.

    As the save bug at least in part seems due to service density and signal complexity, I would hope Settle to Carlisle would be slightly more robust than some of the other routes. I agree about the Trainz version, getting to Skipton was the right idea but driving trains in Trainz is a huge chore not knowing if you have to set the route yourself. Despite building routes in the game I still can’t fathom how you set up a timetable run for the player, with the AI setting the route but that’s for another topic!
     
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  2. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Settle & Carlisle; a scenic and famous route, yes. Is it really that interesting though? Not really in my opinion. I would prefer other routes to it than development time spent on an 80+ mile route, so in my mind a shorter segment like Appleby to Settle (the more major stations on the route, of which rail tours typically stop at) would be the best segment to represent this route. Although I doubt they'd release a route called Settle and Carlisle if it doesn't go between the places suggested.
     
  3. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Although it’s long closed, if you want Northern England moorland scenery something like the Stainmore line is probably better than the S&C, at least from what I’ve seen in pictures.
     
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  4. kenobi#1878

    kenobi#1878 Well-Known Member

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    I personally think something around 60-70 miles, diesel multiple units, loco hauled trains.
    Something like the modern day chiltern mainline London to Banbury
    Tbh I want this route a lot. Or any route with a turbostar, they operate on much of the UK rail network yet aren’t in TSW yet.

    It won’t be the ECML or WCML because you would need a quite a lot of new rolling stock along with many licenses.
    Now, I know what your thinking, “you said it would be more rolling stock but you would need that for the chiltern line” which is true, however Class 165s are very similar to 166s, class 168s are similar(ish) to elctrostars as they are the older diesel variant and 68s would be whole new trains but their rolling stock would be nearly the same as the mk3s on GWE and the DVT would also be new.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2022
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  5. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Not Spirit Of Steam ready, though.
     
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  6. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    No reason to think that any routes in the immediate future will have any special support though, after all, Spirit of Steam's not happening until after Harlem at the very least, probably in the summer at this rate.
     
  7. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    You may be right Mich, as whatever is coming out now probably had the foundations laid last summer.
     
  8. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I would love to see the Stainmore line a very scenic and varied route. I have the TS1 version which is a very nice representation of it.
     
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  9. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I mean to get that some time but keep getting my "pocket money" diverted to TSW! I'd buy it in a flash for TSW though, either early BR diesel or SOS.
     
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  10. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to see 'slip-coaches'. When I first came across them I though, 'surely not' but yes they did! It would be huge fun to do. I love steam but not really bothered about driving Steam Loco's but a slip-coach? Hell Yeah!

     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2022
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  11. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    This 1 hour driving thing should absolutly not affect the lenght of a route. This way we get those routes, which i call "half baked", because their service end points might be nonsense.

    Everybody who likes a short travel can always take over a london to brighton service at gatwick for example.

    Its dtgs job to balance the score system this way around or fix the save system. Clearly not sticking with short routes because "customer xyz" will never get his gold medal on a 2.5 hour service because he likes just driving for 1 hour.

    Its just another point why extensions are nessecary. There are people who like the short services and there are people like also long trips. (Eastbourn, when driving a brighton - ore service)
     
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  12. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    If I am reading the tea-leaves correctly, the next-but-one UK route will release in late summer/early fall, and will be a vintage steam route. I conclude this because
    (1) DTG route releases come roughly every 60 days;
    (2) they seem to rotate US-Germany-UK, and the last two announced have been Sherman and Chemnitz, with Matt's "mystery UK route" next up, in ~March, making the next UK release ~6 months later, or September;
    (3) I anticipate Spirit of Steam will be this summer's "bundle" release, following on from TSW2 and Rush Hour; and
    (4) We have been told, right from the top, that the SoS releases will be full vintage routes, not heritage railways or railtours on modern routes.
     
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  13. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    If steam is coming this year then it will almost certainly do so as part of the annual re-imagining of the game. Bye bye Rush Hour branding, hello TSW2 - Spirit of Steam.

    No way will they miss the marketing opportunity that that presents, and on past evidence it will come as 1 of 3 included routes, doubtless built specifically for that release, and specifically for steam. Who knows, maybe all 3 routes could be built around steam?
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2022
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  14. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Yeah initially I was guessing (or maybe hoping) that SoS would be released before summer, but with no new articles and delays being mentioned on stream, I would indeed guess summer next year. That will most definetely include one full era appropriate UK route going by the info we've gotten so far. Hopefully it also includes a US and German period route (like the Moselstrecke in 1970 perhaps? :)). Either way I'm excited for SoS, but I think there's one more UK release (probably modern) before that.
     
  15. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It wouldn't be a stretch to forecast that the late-summer British route will be set in the 1960s or so, because it would allow them to supplement the steam with existing BR diesel stock.
     
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  16. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    A mixed late BR steam / diesel route would be great for gameplay variety too - you could even (with some forethought) have them substitute for each other on services. A service played with a Class 52 Western would be a totally different experience if it was substituted by a Castle-class steam locomotive instead. Even the shunters could be varied - 57xx pannier tank or Class 08? You decide, or spawn on foot and let the game decide for you.
     
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  17. JetWash

    JetWash Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. My guess would be;

    Next - Modern, probably DMU
    Big Summer Name change - SoS
    Third - Exactly as solicitr says
     
  18. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Seems likely, but something with overhead electrification would also jot surprise me. Perhaps part of the LNER ECML, as the DfT is said to be a nice licensing partner. Doesn't takeaway that modern DMUs are a likely candidate aswell.
     
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  19. Wivenswold

    Wivenswold Well-Known Member

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    I'll strike Settle - Carlisle then. I agree that starting at Settle just doesn't seem right. If you're simulating what a train driver does then a route should have start and finish points that make operational sense including driver change-over points.

    I've always had a dislike of scenarios in TS1 that don't seem like actual driving duties, for example; South Eastern drives on the London - Gatwick route.

    The surprise UK route will be; York to Newcastle Intercity era with new Class 91 and an HST in IC Swallow livery. A vintage Deltic to follow separately.
    Steam era route; Crewe to Shrewsbury (via Nantwich).
    Just Trains 1st route; Liverpool Metro using adapted PEP.

    Nice mix there.
     
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  20. JealousSheep768

    JealousSheep768 Well-Known Member

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    A 91 and the deltics never operated alongside each other
     
  21. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if we’ll get a summer bundle of routes, I don’t believe we will get three countries, 3 steam trains after Rush Hour release challenges
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2022
  22. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    They did when the Preserved Deltics returned to the mainline, at one point D9000 was working VSOE (Orient Express) and 55019 was on Railcruise duties so they were seen all over the ECML although not daily but often enough.
     
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  23. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    D9000 also worked some Virgin Cross Country services as well at one point iirc, although that wouldn't have been on the ECML I don't think as I think it was working services to Kent..
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2022
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  24. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    They could always package the summer release using newer and popular existing routes like with Train Simulator. The base routes should be refreshed too, Bakerloo isn't exactly the best example of TSW capabilities.
     
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  25. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Maybe a refreshed and refurbished WCL and Class 150 rebuilt from scratch.
    Hang on, a pink pig just flew past the back window!
     
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  26. Redbus

    Redbus Well-Known Member

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    Lol. The 150/2 looks fine, it probably just needs a SimuGraph(c) transplant!
     
  27. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    This is the one argument in favour of historical routes that I've NEVER been able to understand, even when taking into account nostalgia. How is is that the wide range of locos, EMUs and DMUs we have in operation today, with their array of colourful and unique liveries is "samey", yet all the routes with just the same handful of Diesel locos, and DMUs, in the exact same plain blue livery is "varied and beautiful".

    I see people saying we've had enough of Electrostars, but I feel the urge to point out that the Class 101 is now in four different routes, one of which as far as I can make out it shouldn't even be in.
     
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  28. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps liveries are an important element of trains for you, but for many of us, the differences between the various EMU's are merely cosmetic. Of course this applies to all modern locos too, the German trains all look basically the same to me and who can tell an ES44AC from an AC 4400CW from the exterior view.

    Many of us just think the older diesels like a Class 20 or a Deltic or an F7 have a bit more character and individuality even with a rather boring paint job.

    And I like the Class 101 because of the mechanical gear box, pure and simple. It's unique in the game.

    Still, horses for courses.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2022
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  29. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Under British Rail There were around 28 different classes of first generation DMU, there were at least ten classes of 25kv overhead electric EMU's given tops classifications, there were more than ten classes of 750v DC third rail EMU's given tops classifications. And I haven't even included the second generation 1970's and 1980's builds to add variety.

    There were two types of electro diesels plus the class 71's. There were 11 types of AC 25kv electric loco's and I can't be bothered to count up the many numerous classes of diesel locomotives. You had many different types of carriages, two types of mark 1's, one being the suburban variety, mark 2 in pressure vented and air conditioned form, then the mark 3 and mark 4. You still had unfitted freight with brake vans alongside the unit freight operations introduced in the 1960's.

    There wasn't just plain blue, the sixties started off with steam along side green diesels, green gave way to blue, granted the 70's could be considered a bit dull under the corporate blue period. Then the 80's came with livery modifications like large logo blue and the Railfreight grey and then sectorisation came with NSE, Intercity, Railfreight Sectors, Scotrail, Civil Engineers etc and Provincial and PTE liveried second generation DMU's. The late 80's were a very varied and colourful time period livery wise. So were 90's and the Regional Railways branding arrived.

    I agree about the class 101, I have been one of the most vocal complainers about it appearing everywhere. DTG are likely to leave it as the only first generation DMU in the sim so it will turn up everywhere which is totally unrepresentative of what the railways looked like. In fact there were few allocated to any of the Manchester depots in 1983, the class 108 would have been a much better choice for the NTP DMU. But the class 101 seems to be the best known and DTG probably feel they have ticked the "we have made a first generation DMU box" and feel they need not make another one.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2022
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  30. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    I won't disagree with the German trains looking the same, it's part of why I can never really get into the German content.

    I don't think the difference between EMUs is cosmetic, or at least it isn't to me. A Class 700 feels very different to an Electrostar, for example. To me they are about as different as say a Class 47 is to a Peak or 37 (if that makes sense), so I don't get why EMUs should be criticised for being too similar. To me a 47 feels just as similar to drive as a 37 so to me they don't have any more or less character than multiple units.
     
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  31. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Which is why this era definetely needs another good route made for it. TVL and WCL are arguably already in this era, I admit, but something more mainline-ish with some InterCity Executive or Swallow liveries is definetely a thing I'd like to see. Combine it with a route that also sees NSE or some other more local livery variation (ScotRail, etc.) and you have some great livery variation, aswell as some great rolling stock variety, something to please both those that want visual variety and those who want technical variety! :)
     
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  32. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    It's just that DTG always seem to choose the same trains for every historical route they make. When WCL was announced I was really hoping to see at least a Class 47+ Mk2 consist in Intercity Swallow livery, but they just gave the exact same stuff yet again. I'd have much rather waited another couple of months for them to put in something different, and I get the feeling many would agree.

    I'll always have a preference for modern routes, but there is still plenty of historical content I want to see. I'd love to see some BR Green stuff, and I'd really like to see 90s routes with Intercity Swallow, NSE and Regional Railways trains. But between NTP, Tees Valley, GWE Legends and WCL, everything currently in the game blurs together for me and it's left me feeling tired of it.
     
  33. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes I agree, a late 80's mainline route would be great. TVL would be improved by have a Provincial liveried class 143 available as DLC as the class 101's were all but gone from the area in 1989, particularly in 3 car form.
     
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  34. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    All i've ever known for UK rail is stuff that's ran into the modern era. When I look at Modern Stuff there are some families I view as very "samey", the Electrostars being a good example.

    However things like Turbostars, Sprinters (I know they were mostly BR-Built), Desiros and all that stuff, I look at and (ignoring whatever livery it's wearing) I could typically tell it apart from the next class.

    As for BR Stuff, well, my only experience of it is TS/TSW, and I do enjoy having a go over the Pennines or along the Cornish Lines, however I've never known that. It's not nostalgic or "a blast to the past" for me. It's just an older train that has historical meaning.

    I can hardly most first gens apart, or the old Diesel Locos, however I still recognise they aren't all the same.

    I think there's very much inherent bias against the era your not a big fan of, as you'll always prefer that the newer route be in your era of choice, however modern routes are without a doubt more colourful, with all the TOC liveries.

    But that's my two pence, anyway.
     
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  35. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Don't get me wrong, I like the modern routes too but not nearly as much. I do like the different liveries.

    The reason I didn't purchase West Cornwall was because of the stupid layers they have added, I would rather just see the class 150 and 37 than a class 45 with a totally unrealistic rake of carriages behind it appearing next to a regional railways class 150. I would like to drive the class 101 on the St. Ives branch though. An intercity HST or indeed a class 47's and airconditioned mark 2's would I am sure be a very popular piece of DLC and it would get me purchasing the route.

    Layering for layerings sake seems to be against the spirit of trying to create as realistic as possible simulator.
     
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  36. bob123

    bob123 Member

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    i would love that
     
  37. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    I think that's what it all amounts to. Routes like NTP I respect more than enjoy. I really liked NTP at first as I really enjoyed the feeling of thrashing a 47 up the steep gradients, but the novelty quickly wore off.

    Routes like London Commuter and GWE are my favourites because they're routes I'm familiar with, in a time I'm familiar with, in a train I'm familiar with, which means I can much easier immerse myself in the experience. I'm sure this is why many prefer BR content.

    Trying to steer the topic to something a bit more relevant to the thread, growing up in the 2000s I've always hoped for a route set in the early to mid 2000s, when privatisation was beginning to take effect (I know the railways were privatised around the mid 90s but it took a while for the liveries to start appearing). As an example I would love say the WCML Over Shap in around 2004, during the transitional period between old and new. The Class 87s (and maybe 86s and 90s) in their twilight years alongside the brand new and shiny Pendolinos and Voyagers. I think that would be a great compromise for fans of both modern and historic traction.

    Or at least give us an HST in FGW Barbie livery. I know most despise that livery but I love it. Brings back memories of being five years old trainspotting at Cardiff with my Dad.
     
  38. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    I agree on NTP - I bought it in probably about March maybe April, just because I felt like taking on the challenge again (I say again because I had it on 2020, but on Xbox Game Pass).

    However the novelty wore off - and it's why the only two UK routes I don't own are Tees Valley Line and West Somerset, although I continue to consider the latter.

    I personally find myself enjoying German content - which is something I've not even got a remote connection to, having never been to Germany - having started with Dresden-Riesa, then going back and buying HRR (which I thoroughly enjoy), and hoping that I'll enjoy Chemnitz whenever I pick it up.

    Even though there is a sense of "it's all the same" - not helped by most units being in DB Red (even though I like the livery), at the same time there is a slight feeling of "Nothing's the same."

    LGV was similar - thanks to having family from there, I feel connected to France, unlike Germany, having also visited it. - that was my first Day-One purchase since the game itself, and - even though the scenery is dodgy at best outside Marseille/Aix - the route was very enjoyable. And I felt like it was truly France (the area I have visited being not too far from the area itself.)

    Whilst I've went on a massive tangent, I feel like it was worth pointing out, at least.
     
  39. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    With the Mark One coaches there came a fair bit of variety. The original build had wooden interior panelling, tungsten lighting and well cushioned seats and ran on 90 MPH B1 bogies. Later builds made more use of plastic panelling in the interior, had strip lighting (very noisy IIRC) and ran on 100 MPH Commonwealth or B4 bogies.

    DMU’s as mentioned were a huge variety. Even when fitted with the same engine type, they could sound different. For example, the Class 101 Met Cams, Cravens Class 105 and Swindon Class 120 Cross Country units all had AEC engines originally but all sounded quite different.
     
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  40. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Me personally, I understand the differences between Class x and Class y, I can find information in that with relative ease. However without knowing the stock, I couldn't recognise that difference.

    It's why all my suggestions are modern day - not only because I have a preference towards it, however also because I understand the rolling stock more and can decide what fits the route best.

    As before it's a matter of preference, however being able to tell a train by it's sound depends on if you recognise it, or don't.
     
  41. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Whilst scenically pretty I never took to the Ts version of the Settle route, but the Woodhead was great fun.
    Wouldn’t mind seeing that again.
     
  42. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    The only two German routes I've spent more than an hour on are SKA and HMA, simply because I like high speed. I keep having phases with those two routes where I'll be really into them for a couple of days and then I'll abruptly drop them for something more familiar.

    I've always loved Marseille to Avignon, it's probably my third or 4th favourite route and easily my favourite non UK route. Not only because I love high speed but simply because I've always been fascinated by TGVs and Eurostars since I was a kid. I'm still super disappointed they chose St Pancras to Faversham instead of St Pancras to Folkestone and Dover via Ashford, as it better showcases HS1. I still really like SEHS though.
     
  43. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    Many of the German trains indeed look the same at first glance, can’t deny that haha. In fact, it has stopped me from buying Hamburg-Lübeck because the only included passenger loco (BR 146 I think?) is basically 100% identical to the BR 143, which layers onto like a billion routes. Many of the cabs also look and work the same, especially the S-Bahn EMUs. Looking forward to the BR 612, which will introduce a completely new category of German passenger trains/locos for the first time since the ICE 3 was added in mid-2020.
    But looking at the real life outside of the game, we’ve got to admit that this similarity between trains, locos etc. is truly an amazing feat. It makes repair works, timetable substitutions, employee training, train recognition and so many more things SO much easier to achieve.

    Getting back to the main topic, I’m not sure if they can pull of a big steam-only update and route bundle this summer, similar to Rush Hour. I think we’re in our own little bubble here in the forums and really overestimate how much casual gamers would care about complicated steam locos. Would be a big financial risk to basically exclude a huge majority of players from the group of potential buyers for the summer update. They would have to either bundle one steam route with modern routes, or make multiple steam-transition routes which also include diesel locos and/or DMUs.
     
  44. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    I always wanted to see Crewe to Liverpool in the 80s feature as it was possibly suggested in a poll for railworks initial content, then never came out (Although a freeware route has been done since). I think we are all missing out on some unique early AC electrics and EMUs which had challenges to drive and a lot of unique noises. The howl of a Class 81 has to be heard to be believed, driving one at 100mph with a set of rattly mk1s on a Summer night is something now that only simulation could achieve but as yet we havent had anything UK AC loco wise for TSW2. An electrostar can be rode on every day out there now and if you able to get through the process jobs are available driving them with good pay!!
     
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  45. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    Not just casual gamers- I'm a die hard railway enthusiast and I have little to no interest in driving steam locos. I absolutely adore seeing steam trains in real life but I don't really care for all the intricacies of driving them. I couldn't get into steam in TS Classic for this reason, and the process will likely be even more involved in TSW2.
     
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  46. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I think a lot of the boredom many people experience with modern units is that the controls are basically one lever, often notched, that you move one way for faster and the other way for slower and the reactions are almost instantaneous. You could probably train a chimp* to drive an Electrostar (the unions wouldn’t like it) but driving the older trains takes more attention, skill, anticipation and feel which is a much more satisfying experience for humans and probably beyond the capabilities of lesser primates.

    Controlling the speed of the train is only a small part of driving a service of course but it is one part that is more satisfying to do with older technology. The sounds and smells (imaginary in the sim) of older diesel and steam trains are also much more of a pull than the different coloured corporate swooshes of near identical modern branded EMUs. The ease of control and era don’t always go hand in hand but one of the biggest issues TOCs have these days is keeping their drivers awake and alert because the controls are so simple. Nobody ever fell asleep on the footplate of The Flying Scotsman. So it is understandable that people prefer the old stuff.

    *[As an aside both chimps and train drivers are powered by PG Tips so they do have a lot in common]
     
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  47. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Nobody who drove the Scotsman did so without years of experience of operating or working with trains... I doubt many people want to spend that long in-sim just to get the thing to move
     
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  48. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    In the F7's heyday, they came in a kaleidoscope of liveries, since back then there were 40-odd Class I RR in the US (all running passenger services as well as freight, there was no Amtrak).
     
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  49. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I suspect SOS will come with a great many aids for the casual simmer, automatic fireman being the main one I would hope.
    Once you've mastered the concept of the reverser/cut-off in conjunction with the regulator, you're good to go the main challenge being not thrashing the fire through the chimney or outpacing the steam production for too long. That's where the skill comes in, if the pressure drops too much you lose the vacuum and on comes the brakes. Time to stop for a blow up (ooh er missus). Happened to me on classic TS on Port Road, level section between Dumfries and Gretna believe it or not!
     
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  50. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    I think that might be another reason why I prefer modern traction. I personally like to play TSW2 as a relaxing game to unwind. I like to just switch off and immerse myself in the route and enjoy the route passing by. I don't like having to worry about several things at once. If I want to play something that has me focussing in such a way I probably won't be playing TSW2.
     
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