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Too Many Discounts?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Timmiej93, Mar 10, 2019.

?
  1. It's fine as it is.

    55.1%
  2. Lower the base price, and reduce the discount and frequency of sales

    38.8%
  3. Lower the base price and get rid of sales completely.

    6.1%
  1. Timmiej93

    Timmiej93 Member

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    I don't complain about discounts often, but lately it's really getting out of control for TSW (and TS). At the time of writing this post, every single item except for Main Spessart Bahn is on sale. Now maybe it only feels this way, but it seems like almost all older DLCs are on sale for about 75% of the time. Great for gamers on a budget, but not very supportive of those who buy DLCs as they come out, or pre-order them. Sure, pre-ordering gets you a discount as well, but the sale discounts are often more than the 20% you get off for a pre-order.
    If DLCs can be on sale so often, and for so long, why can't they just be a bit cheaper to begin with, and have smaller or less frequent discounts? With the way it currently is, I feel like players are encouraged to hold off with buying a DLC, since it'll be on a massive sale in a few months anyway. At least, that's the feeling I'm getting every time I see a new tweet about a sale.

    As a side effect, these sales also work into the hands of key re-sellers. Buy on a 60% off sale (like the base game is now), then when the sale is over, sell them for something like 30% off. That's just something that's going to happen when prices fluctuate heavily.
     
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  2. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    DTG skirt pretty close to the law with some of their 'sales'. UK law requires that a product is at the full price for 'meaningful period of time' between sales, 28 days is usually the standard period, though it can depend on the sector. This is to stop companies from making it seem as if consumers are getting a bargain, when actually the 'sale' price is the true price.

    Take LIRR for example. On the Steam Store alone, on the 18/01/19 it was put on sale for 3 days, then again 05/02/19 for 7 days, and again 07/03/18 for 11 days. I expect it's been on sale on DTG's store as well. So we have a gap between sales on Steam alone of much less than 28 days, so that's a bit dubious in terms of consumer law.

    In the last three months we've had the 'Advent Sale', 'Steam Winter Sale', 'DTG Winter Encore Sale', 'DTG Publisher Weekend Sale', 'UK Festival Sale', 'Luna Sale' and the 'March Madness Sale.' With 7 sales in 3 months there is just no way that the products are going to be full price for a 'meaningful period of time' and so DTG are on thin legal ice.

    The pricing also seems arbitrary. Why are all the routes (bar WSR) £24.99 regardless of length, rollingstock and features? It doesn't make sense. Each DLC should have a price determined by the cost to develop, the content provided and the expected sales. Why are LIRR, RT and NTP all £24.99 when the routes are about the same length but one has three trains and the other two have only one? The price for each DLC should be tailored to yield maximum sales; It's basic business. Look at Just Trains' pricing for the routes they publish, it reflects the content of the product with prices from £7.99 to £39.99: https://www.justtrains.net/category/add-ons/routes/

    Why would people buy NTP for the full price of £24.99 when they can preorder for 20% off, or less than 3 months later buy it for 30% off, or just 6 months later buy it for 50% off. If the product was good value for money and selling really well there's no reason it couldn't be sold full price indefinitely, so what does that tell you about the quality and value of DTG's products?
     
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  3. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Active Member

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    This pattern has existed since Railworks was put on Steam, so this is nothing new. It also doesn't help that DTG does their Twitch streams AFTER the routes release on the Steam store, which prevents consumers from purchasing the route at a discounted price before seeing Matt play through it once. Had I known LIRR would have shipped with barren AI traffic, I probably would have held off from pre-ordering and would have been content purchasing it a few months later from a Steam seasonal sale.

    The current system is great because it allows the faithful and streamers to take advantage of a nice 20% off for pre-orders to essentially advertise whether the route is acceptable for purchase to more patient buyers who don't want to pay full price for the route and are willing to wait for 33% or whatever the discounted price is the next Steam sale cycle. Also allows DTG to correct any disastrous mistakes or even blatant false advertising such as the CSX freight services in NEC NY.
     
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  4. Louwe

    Louwe Member

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    I know how you feel, I wrote it earlyer|: The short time between new(100% full price) and sale is to short for me. I find myself stupid to buy everything for paying the 100% price and to see that everything is on sale a few wheeks later. But, I WANT IT direct when it's out :)
     
  5. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    I really cann’t comprehend people complaining about too many discounts. Proves people will complain about anything.
     
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  6. Louwe

    Louwe Member

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    Complaining is quite normal for humans, I even think you sometimes do it? Here in the Netherlands we always complain about the weather, it is never good, to hot, to cold, etc. But that is not bad, is it? As long as it does not get out of hand. There was someone who complained about my bad English, but hey, I'm a Dutchman, I'm doing my best. Now I get help from Google Translate. :)
     
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  7. AlexNL

    AlexNL Active Member

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    Discounts are a good way of getting some more sales for a product, and there's nothing wrong with the concept of a discount.

    However, if you put your products on sale very often then people who have paid full price will feel ripped-off, and are less likely to buy the next DLC at full price again ("why buy now, a sale will come soon anyway").
     
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  8. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Quite agree, some people are just determined to find something to complain about. Makes me wonder why?
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
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  9. zero909

    zero909 Member

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    To get a better picture of people's opinions there should be an option "leave prices unchanged, no sales".

    Also I don't view this from a "complaining about sales" perspective but more from a "it lowers the felt value of DLCs which leads to less revenue for DTG and less time that can be spent on developing a DLC" point of view.
     
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  10. Timmiej93

    Timmiej93 Member

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    It proves that people will complain about anything? Or do you prove that some people have a hard time seeing the other side of things?
    Let's look at it this way. You've just pre-ordered yourself a new car, let's say a $50k one. You get a 5k discount for pre-ordering. Not bad. A month after you pick it up, the dealership starts a 50% off sale. How do you feel? Happy that there's a discount? Ripped off? As if your car suddenly isn't worth 50k anymore?
    Now, if this dealership does this once, that's just bad luck. But what if you pre-order every new car from them, and they do this every time? It's not a one-off situation with DTG, it's a pattern. And sure, we can wait a month or so, wait for it to go on sale, but that's like telling a kid that he can only have a candy in 7 days, even though it's right there in front of him.

    Like I said, I'm not upset about what I paid for my DLCs or the base game. I'm not upset that DTG puts their products on sale, not at all. I'm just of the opinion that there are too many sales, resulting in people feeling ripped off, especially those who follow DTG closely. If you only check their store or steam whenever you want to buy a DLC, you'll be happy, since there's always a sale going on. But if you follow them on twitter for example, and see a tweet about a new sale every week, even bigger than the last one, you start feeling as if you payed too much. It's really simple. If you can't understand that, I can't help you.

    Also, I'd rather discus the topic of this thread, instead of people complaining that people complain too much. I'm sure you see the irony in this too.


    I didn't add that option because I didn't expect anyone to go for that option, since there is no logic at all to it. The current three options have a logical reasoning behind them, and for "leave prices unchanged, no sales", I simply can't find a reason for anybody to prefer that over the other three options.
     
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  11. TrainSim-Dmitri

    TrainSim-Dmitri Staff Member

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    I would prefer not to go into the discussion about sales, but just to point out - the example with a car with a 50% discount after 1 month is not entirely correct. All of our new DLC's come at a full price at launch, the only exclusions are some TS1 routes that sometimes go with a 20% discount. TSW routes for PC usually do come with a 10% pre-order discount. But they are not discounted by 50% in a month. Take NTP, for example. The first time it went on a sale was 2 months after release, and it was a 20% discount linked to the Lunar Sale which is one of the biggest sales on Steam. It was also on sale a few days later with a 25% discount. And only recently was featured on another sale with a 30% discount. So no 50% discounts so far, 3 months after release.
     
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  12. Sintbert

    Sintbert Active Member

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    Check some AAA-Titles that have come out in the last year on steam and you will see that a sale with 20-30% after just 2 months is quite normal. Also 50% after just 3-4 months. They just want to grab as many copy's sold as possible while the effects from marketing are still around.
     
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  13. zero909

    zero909 Member

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    First of all, shouldn’t that be for the participants to decide, if really no one would go for it you had confirmation. Now you’re only assuming. I’m not suggesting many people would go for it but it still should be an option. Ultimately it’s a question about the value of the DLCs. You are offering only choices that suggest that dlcs have a low value because people can either vote for „keep the high rate of sales“ or two versions of „lower base prices“. While it might be nice from a clients perspective i find it also short-sighted. I am also not a fan of the concept that everything should get only cheaper. vR has a very solid business with almost no sales and higher prices than DTG. Their sale for the relaunch of the store was the first I can remember in years.

    I laid out my rationale in my original comment. Lower prices through too many sales will lead to many people buying only for reduced prices. It’s always only some weeks to the next one. That leads to lower revenues for DTG and ultimately to lower quality. You could even argue that we already see that. If prices wouldn’t always (almost) reduced and they would sell for 35 instead of (often) 23, maybe routes would be 90 km long of 60 km. I’m no insider to this and of course there is more to a business model than this but again I just wanted to explain why I think it might also be in the customers interest to have stable revenues for DTG.

    Update to Sintbert ... with all respect towards TSW and DTG. It’s not a AAA title, train sims are a niche market and while it might work for some AAA title to attract some extra clients through marketing, I don’t see an extra 20% of new customers miraculously appear and buy TSW or a DLC. Instead dtg sells for 20% less and hence less revenue.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
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  14. StratPlayer62

    StratPlayer62 Well-Known Member

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    I think you are splitting hairs, the point being made was more about how the person who paid full price would feel if the same product went on sale shortly after purchace at any substantial discount, anything 20% or more is substantial to me.

    DTG seems to employ a business model of get as much cash as possible from your new product as quick as you can, then move on to the next product with little to no regard for a satisfied customer or customer retention. And I have no problem whatsoever with this, DTG is entitled to run their business however they want. Perhaps this is not their intent, but the way they operate sure gives that impression to the customer, it certainly has impacted how much I have spent on their products over the last few years.
     
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  15. TrainSim-Dmitri

    TrainSim-Dmitri Staff Member

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    I completely understand where you are coming from, we do have quite a lot of sales, but similarly, we have quite a lot of products that need visibility.

    But having a 20% sale 2 months after release is not the same as 50% discount 1 month after release. I do not know if you play any other games, but sales are sort of industry standard at the moment with most if not all games on Steam going on sale after some time. You will see examples across all genres and titles, be it Assassin's Creed, Battlefield or The Long Dark. There are multiple massive Steam sales happening several times a year which have a lot of games sold with significant discounts. Exceptions are the fresh games that just came out recently, and even those receive discounts. Two months (as seen with the example of NTP) is a pretty long period for new releases.

    This is not to say that I do not see where you are coming from. We do have a lot of sales and I am genuinely sorry if it makes you feel unappreciated as a customer.
     
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  16. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget you're upsetting a lot of console players too. PC players get discounts every two or three weeks, where as console players rarely get them. Hardly seems fair. Console players are already buying product which isn't as good as the PC version (fewer AI trains/services for example) and yet they are expected to pay the same price, so imagine how they feel seeing the DLC they own much cheaper in the frequent PC sales.

    Just becasue Assassin's Creed and Battlefield do something, doesn't mean that DTG should do it with TSW. Assassin's Creed and Battlefield have microtransactions, does that mean we can expect DTG to bring them to TSW too?

    'Drive 100,000 miles or pay £1.99 and you'll receive a loot box which might contain a new livery!!!' What DTG don't tell you is that 99/100 loot boxes just contain a Santa hat for your character.
     
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  17. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Or else they'll just wait for the well-established deeper discounts -- until the first time those reductions do not appear, of course. There are risks in both marketing policies. In an inversion of the old canard, "Ya makes yer choice and ya pays yer money".
     
  18. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like standard marketing practice for every product from hairpins to Harley's. It's called "commerce 101", I rather think, and its thoroughly accepted by the purchasing public.
     
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  19. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    More like "run your business into the ground 101." Yes, it's thoroughly accepted by the purchasing public, but that's not a good thing.

    Sales events with this level of frequency are terrible. It becomes a symbiotic relationship of destruction. The shareholders and marketing guys love the spike in sales and the customer loves the discounts, everyone's a winner right!? Wrong! Too many sales events and you end up training the customer not to make a purchase unless the product is in a sale. You're literally wiping out the value of your product as well as damaging the perceived value of your brand as a whole.

    The smart way to get a spike in sales is to temporarily add value to your product, rather than taking value away. So instead of discounting the product by 20% for a week, say 'for this week only the Northern Transpennine DLC is coming with 2 extra spring themed scenarios to celebrate the arrival of Spring' and then do the same at Christmas 'for this week only the Northern Transpennine DLC is coming with 2 extra Christmas themed scenarios to celebrate Santa's arrival'. You'll get the spike in sales you want and maintain the price of your product. The shareholders and marketing guys love the spike in sales, the customer loves the extra scenarios they got and you've protected your product's value, everyone's a winner!

    Sure, there's a lot more nuance to it, but you get the principle.
     
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  20. bobsr

    bobsr Member

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    And then, there's the customer that just have to be the first one on the block to purchase the product. And, they do this, knowing that at some point, there will be sales at an discount. And then later, start complaining, because, some of us will wait until the merchandise is discounted, before purchasing.
     
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  21. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    It is odd how some people seem to think they are an expert at marketing and that DTG are getting it wrong!
     
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  22. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Who is complaining?!
     
  23. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    I'm not an expert, but I've brought several software products to market and worked with experts in the field of marketing during that process. I enjoy learning, so when working with people in a particular field, I take onboard as much infomation as can from the people who know what they're talking about. So I have a pretty decent grasp of most of the principles of business.

    Why would you assume that DTG know better? DTG agreed to purchase the rights to FSX for an extortionate sum of money so they could use the technology from it to create Flight Sim World. They then had to cancel Flight Sim World before they'd even finshed paying the installments for the FSX rights. Perhaps they're not so good at business after all.
     
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  24. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    People have been predicting the demise of RSC/DTG for several years and they are still here! Maybe you want to believe your own hype. I don’t know much about the FSW situation so can’t comment. Some people clearly want to see DTG fail for some reason.
     
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  25. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    Why not explain which part of my post on marketing you think is incorrect and then we can actually have a discussion? Or perhaps explain why DTG's marketing method is superior to the method I outlined above?

    As for DTG failing, they are..

    DTG are only still here because they have received over £1 million in tax relief from the UK government and they have borrowed large amounts of money to keep the company alive. Their debt ratio is 150%, so for every £1 worth of assets they have £1.50 of debt. From an investment point of view a debt ratio of below 40% is low risk, 60%+ is high risk. The average debt ratio in the software industry was less then 8% in 2018. If you deduct their debt from their assets you get a number of -£1,940,000, so if they sold all their assets tomorrow, they'd still have nearly £2 million of debt. I should mention this is all publically available info.

    TSW is the last roll of the dice for DTG, and if they screw it up like they did Flight Sim World, it's curtains.

    I don't want to see DTG fail, the opposite is true. I don't just criticise DTG, I provide them with ideas and solutions too, which yes, they probably ignore, but I at least I try.
     
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  26. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    People have been telling them they are doing it wrong for years and they are still here. I am not obsessed enough to go scrutinising their accounts. Why not apply for a job there rather than patronising them on a forum?

    I do wonder why you seem obsessed with their financial position as it appears you can’t stand the sim or have a problem with DTG!
     
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  27. PlatChap

    PlatChap Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I find the numbers provided by Digital Draftsman to be thought provoking at the very least. I believe he has, as do many of us here, a vested interest in this company and the products they sell; therefore, I don't believe taking an active interest in the company's finances is egregious. I see no difference between this and following stock market trends of publicly shared companies.
     
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  28. killakanzGaming

    killakanzGaming Active Member

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    They would be if, like DD, you only focused on the negatives.
    However there's a rather interesting report here: https://www.duedil.com/company/gb/06751125/railsimulator-com-limited/financials
    Which shows:
    - DTG's turnover last year was £13.76M
    - Their post tax profit/loss improved by 92.55% over 2017
    - Their employee count has risen 17.46%
    We also know that Dovetail recently moved it's HQ into a brand new office which had been undergoing renovations for quite some time (hence the loans and high assets, which basically included a 2nd HQ building that wasn't being used for most of the year).

    Now...
    these kinds of figures seem quite normal for a company that is expanding it's operations, and I'm not seeing anything that's particularly troubling.

    Of course though, it's all lies, DTG's failing and it's all a coverup, yadda yadda...
     
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  29. PlatChap

    PlatChap Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the link Luke. I certainly don't share the sentiment that DTG is in immediate financial crisis. I prefer to approach issues in an objective and unbiased manner myself, looking at both positives and negatives.

    Appreciate you taking the time to offer another perspective and additional context.
     
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  30. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    The post tax profit/loss improved because of the £1,000,000+ of tax relief that DTG received from the UK government.

    If you bought an office worth £500,000 and borrowed the whole £500,000, you'd still only have an asset to debt ratio of 100%. You borrow £100,000 and spend it renovating an office, you add £100,000 to the asset value of the office, still a debt ratio of 100%. This is assuming that DTG doesn't have any other assets. If you say the TS DLC back catalogue is worth £250,000, then the debt ratio with the £500,000 loan is 50%.

    If there were no financial issues they wouldn't have cancelled Flight Sim World before it had even covered its development costs.
     
  31. AlexNL

    AlexNL Active Member

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    Those numbers are a year old. A lot has happened since then (end of FSW, launch of TSW on consoles, more TSW DLC) and DTG is still here.

    New data will probably be available in a couple of weeks, so let's reserve judgment until then.
     
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  32. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    Usually the figures appear in November, unless they're especially prompt in their accounting this year.

    The company will still likely be in rough shape. They'd have to go from making a loss to making about £9,000,000 profit in a year to bring the company back into a healthy financial position. Just making a profit would be a good start, but it's a long road ahead. Also, with Brexit looming, it's unknown what's going to happen regarding the tax relief as well as trade tariff's, so it's a really bad time to be in poor financial shape.

    But you're right, as you say, we won't know until we get the figures. That, or TSW gets an announcement like FSW did.
     
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  33. Remko

    Remko Well-Known Member

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    Complaining about too much sales??? :o
    They should realy see a doctor, or better yet a psychiatrist ;)
    And then trying to make their point with false info ...

    There can never be too much sales!
    If you're feeling ripped off for paying full price, you've brought that on to yourself.
    Everybody knows there are sales quite frequently and that new dlc get their first small discount after about 2 or 3 month.
    So if you want to pay less, just wait a bit before buying.
    Don't go complaining about something you did your wallet yourself.
     
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  34. zero909

    zero909 Member

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    Yes, there can be too much sales. In Germany a large chain of DIY hardware stores ("Praktiker") went out of business as they advertised almost all the time with 20% discounts on everything but pet food - the firm was too dependent on offering rebates all the time. I'm not saying that DTG is in that position. Just saying there can be too much sales.

    https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article117956191/20-Prozent-auf-alles-brach-Praktiker-das-Genick.html
    (Article in German)

    EDIT: Thats even an example in an English economics book: https://books.google.de/books?id=S6...g=PA37#v=onepage&q=praktiker bankrupt&f=false
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
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  35. StratPlayer62

    StratPlayer62 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for taking the time to reply to my post, I appreciate good communication. To be honest I haven't felt to happy with DTG for a while now, and this is only part of the reason. Not trying to take this thread too off topic but I think it is worth mentioning so you can hopefully understand where I'm coming from.

    I would rather see more value for the price by providing a better product, less bugs, more quality control. I would be happy to pay full price or even a higher price if I felt the product was worth it. I just honestly feel DTG is really lacking in quality control.

    My game recently stopped working on my main and highest end PC, it took several weeks of back and forth with a not very helpful person in your tech department. It finally came down to 2 routes of DLC that I purchased a few years back, and that had been installed and working fine, that when downloaded and installed would cause the game to crash on startup. So now I can't enjoy those 2 routes that I bought unless I play them on a slow PC. Maybe there is something wrong with my PC causing the problem, just seems odd that I can run many other DLCs in the game with no problems.

    And I know this has been beat do death, but the ratio of bug fixes to content coming out, it just does not make the customer who paid for the product, full price or sale price, continue to see problems with it that don't get attention while you churn out new product.

    I can honestly say I'm not trying to complain here, I'm just hoping that you will listen and hopefully improve things.
     
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  36. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    Yet again, straight from the Steam sale event into a DTG store event. Now it's the 'More Madness Sale' from the 18th - 25th March. We're not even three months into the year yet and we're on the sixth sale event. It comes across as though the DLC isn't selling well and DTG are desperate to make sales.

    Let's be realistic, if people didn't buy the DLC in the sale that's been going on on Steam for the last two weeks, are they really going to buy it in the latest DTG sale? What's the purpose of running this many sales? It is madness...
     
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  37. PlatChap

    PlatChap Well-Known Member

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    It is getting rather fatiguing if I am to be totally honest. I like deals just as much as the next guy but I'd like to open my email to development updates, blog posts and news rather just an endless stream of promotions for whatever sale they are running that particular week. Things have been stale since the announcement of the 182 almost a month ago.
     
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  38. AyrtonS8

    AyrtonS8 Well-Known Member

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    Its getting to a point were there is no where to hide from DTG advertising products to get people to buy them, especially when its a sale. Now just to make it clear, I am not against DTG or other companys advertising products. That's how companys try to get people to see what they are offering. But DTG seem to use everything they can get there hands on to make as much money as possible. Advertising on Website Pages, Facebook, Discord, Youtube, in-game and many other places, and telling people to buy literally everything. Maybe putting on sales all the time gives them more of a reason to advertise.

    Most of the time I just ignore it but some of the ways they advertise it and encouraging people to buy the stuff really bugs me. Not too long ago on Discord when they mentioned TSW Main - Spessart Bahn is out for PC, they use the phrase "Grab your credit cards and order it today!". I DO NOT appreciate getting told to get my bank card and buy DTGs new DLC. If that doesn't show DTG is after more money, I don't know what is.
     
  39. TrainSim-Dmitri

    TrainSim-Dmitri Staff Member

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    DTG would never say such things, and we do not post anything about our games on Discord, it's a community-led channel.
     
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  40. Shukal

    Shukal Well-Known Member

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    Yeah it's not an official discord. While there are DTG staff on the discord channel, mods are not DTG employees.
    News is not posted in any official capacity on discord. News posts on discord are posted by mods and link to official channels like Facebook, Twitter and Dovetail Live, but the discord posts are not official posts by DTG. What you are referring to was not posted by a DTG employee and was meant in a joking manner.
     
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  41. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    Dmitri, what you say about Discord is not true. Employees of DTG talk about important things on Discord, such as bug fixes and DLC features. There have been many occasions where this has happened, it's not a secret.
     
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  42. Link-Skywalker

    Link-Skywalker Member

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    1st part of the quote: What difference does it make, if by any means what you say is true? All corporations have profit as for their first objective, it's the definition of it.
    2nd part of the quote: Not only it's not targeted to specifically you or actually saying "it's an order otherwise you'll die", what if they say it? What is your problem? As for what I know, nothing prohibits them to do that. Moreover, it's a marketing technique like any other, you sure would be blind to think that only DTG uses that kind of sentence. Any corporation could do the same.

    No. I am in this discord for about a year now, the only thing you may not know about is the answer to someone's question that gets answered by a developer. For all things, as date of release, upcoming DLCs and other bug fixes etc, we absolutely have no idea about what will come out. Any news is posted in the #news channel after the social medias release. Yes maybe once we had the saying that the PZB fix wasn't a plan for the DB BR 182 DLC, but it wasn't a secret for long, and wasn't meant to be one. But yeah maybe I lie as well. If I do, please show me your proof.
     
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  43. AlexNL

    AlexNL Active Member

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    That does not make it an official place.

    Or, going by your logic, the local Wetherspoons pub would also become an 'official channel' if a TS(W) player talks to someone from DTG there and is told that something is a known bug. ;)
     
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  44. Shukal

    Shukal Well-Known Member

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    This happens on Matt's stream too. Doesn't make it an official channel either though.
     
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  45. TrainSim-Dmitri

    TrainSim-Dmitri Staff Member

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    What I meant is that we do not use it as a platform for announcements. We have a presence there, I myself just usually chat about casual things and Matt sometimes talks about some bits of development (nothing secretive though), but that's because the platform allows for fast communication. Just join and have a look yourself.
     
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  46. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    Just recently there was a bug with MSB where the incorrect locomotive was appearing in the service mode on RSN, I believe this was addressed by DTG staff on Discord before it was addressed here. That is my issue, why not address that issue here as this is the official channel?

    I've lost count of the number of times someone has said "TrainSim-Bloggs said on Discord that DTG know about this and are creating a fix."
     
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  47. pdxmark77

    pdxmark77 Active Member

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    They = me. I was the one who wrote that. I am not affiliated with Dovetail in any shape or form. I’m just another fan of Train Simulators. That post you are referring to was posted in the news section of the site, I wrote that with some humor in it like I do for some of the other articles I post.

    The news section is ran by the moderators of the community who are not affiliated with Dovetail. We generally just share what was posted on Dovetail's offical Twitter account.


    In the future though, I can see how that could rub people the wrong way and will make sure that I’m a bit more careful!

    Yes, we do have Dovetail employees in Discord but they are there as they love the community. They do not control Discord nor do they tell us what to do, this is 100% a fan site ran and built by fans of the game.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
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  48. TrainSim-Dmitri

    TrainSim-Dmitri Staff Member

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    Presumably, that is because the issue was initially raised on Discord rather than on the forums. If it's a small issue like this, don't see much sense going to the forums, creating a thread (?) to 'address' it here. With regard to major things, we always try and talk on the forums first.

    Regardless, don't see any point in changing things. We still went ahead with other suggestions, changed processes internally to be able to post update notes ahead of release, but something tells me you would rather have the last word in an argument than recognise any improvements.
     
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  49. Gascan

    Gascan Active Member

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    Aaaaaaaaaaand this is when the fight started...
     
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  50. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you're quite right. Please don't improve TSW or I won't have anything to complain about!

    Just ignore all the times I've recommended RSN to people as it's an excellent DLC, I must have accidentally typed those messages with my nose when I fell asleep face down on my keyboard waiting for something else to complain about.

    In all seriousness, I criticise DTG when I believe it's justified and when a product is decent, like RSN, I recommend it to people and encourage them to buy it. I don't see what's wrong with that.
     
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