Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by TrainSim-James, Jul 21, 2020.
Feel the slip and slide of wheels with adhesion...
oooo sparks go flyyy
Definitely looking forward to playing Train Sim World 2 and experiencing the games new ad-HEE-shun (NOT uh-DEE-shun) physics.
wa very good tsw2 Get A Grip
British accents mate. Cheerio!!
The wheel flange is still on the wrong side.just saying. I will still buy day 1. Can't wait.
yes Can't wait tws2
The wheel flange is not, and has never been, on the wrong side. Zoom in on the photo above and you can clearly see it where it belongs and has always been on this model.
Looking forward to seeing sparks fly!
One if my favorite things about TSW2.
That might be all I get to see. Sparks fly as I wear out another set of expensive ICE 3M wheels (I assume they don’t come cheap).
I'm pretty sure im going to be awful trying to get the right balance in every condition
Yep - that is how I have always seen it - they have always been the right way around. The clue is that there is a dish-like recess in the wheel on the outside. On the inside side (the flange side), the wheel is usually flat (relatively).
yes i see
Definitely the addition of adhesion physics was the highlight for me from the TSW2 reveal. To me it’s a very important part of railroad simulation and I’m glad to see DTG implementing it in TSW2. I’m already a big fan of driving heavy freight and this is going to add so much to the gameplay and challenge of driving in TSW2.
While I'm no expert, the flanges are clearly on both sides of the wheel, which strikes me as sensible at very high speeds.
Nope. They are only on the correct side.
I suspect that LastTrainToClarksville was just joking.....
I hope so anyway.... ;-O
This seems like it could make a huge gameplay difference- weather having more than a cosmetic effect makes replaying services much more appealing IMO.
Yep - it's massive. Potentially. But it could flop, because you need some other ingredients:
1. Immersion - the wheelslip or slide must be communicated to the player properly - with sound, with gauges/dials, with lights, with sparks, with visual clues, etc... - and this could actually be quite tricky to pull off.
2. Skill development - the actual process of learning to drive in different conditions, and improving your skill must be apparent to the player.
3. Comparison - you must be able to tell the difference between two identical services played out in different conditions, and reflect on it.... so, some sort of detailed permanent/saved log of your performances would be needed - preferably something offline.....
Generally agree on all of this.
I will say regarding your first point that the one time i experienced wheelslip in TSW2020 (CL37), it was quite apparent SOMETHING was happening- there was a sound, in-cab light, and HUD indicator. Being a veteran of tran-sims, i quickly figured it out, but it's never explained "in-game" via tutorials, etc.
This leads into your second point- if a player repeatedly can't get their train up a steep incline, or keeps sliding through a downhill red signal, but there's no explanation in the game, or in documentation for WHY it's happening, that could really put less experienced players off the whole game. In more recent TSW2020 DLC's, I've noticed the addition of "emergency stop recovery procedures" to the tutorials, which had been a point of confusion for many people. Hope they do a similar thing for adhesion.
Would also be a great time to start including gradient information in the manual, and even in-game text, such as in the service instructions, e.g., "be aware of 1.5% downhill grade beginning at MP17"
Disintegration7 Sam specifically mentioned in the TSW 2 livestream regarding will there be tutorials to help players learn signalling, safety systems and other things, however, as you might have guessed already, DTG are not providing this information to new players (at the moment). Matt said he did want to provide it in the future, however there’s nothing concrete as to whether this will happen.
So there’s no change there for TSW 2 unfortunately.
Thanks for the info! Just to clarify- so there will be tutorials for these things eventually, but not at launch?
That's what they hope to do in the future, however don't bet on anything, as we've seen this all too often with them saying we want to do x, y & z in the future, which never came into fruition.
If it isn't there at launch, then don't expect it (to come anytime soon) is what the advice from DTG is now, to avoid disappointment. You're also, supposedly, supposed to keep your expectations low.
This all sounds bad, however this is what it has come to following their failures in the past to deliver.
If it is the same discussion I saw - the impression that I got was that it was WIBNI territory - related to do PZB. I think it is a "critical must do" feature to have proper tutorials and documentation, in-game. YouTube videos are great, but they are no substitute to carefully crafted (and coded) tutorials.
The lack of tutorials and manuals must have a big effect on knocking out potential users.... making retention difficult. The worst DLC by far (that I have seen) is RSN.... a total shocker. First introduction locks you out inappropriately, and then the first three Scenarios cannot be completed unless you already know the loco braking and power systems intimately (and beyond what the Intro tries to teach) - as you have to ignore the instructions.... The fourth Scenario tells you about a speed restriction that is only applied in the fiftth Scenario. It is as if the person recording the instructions really rushed it from some scrappy notes from a tele-conference meeting, and they made a complete hash of it. It still serves a purpose I guess - it is a good demonstration example of the worst possible way to make a tutorial for TSW.
From minute 26 for introduction to safety systems. From minute 27 for discussion about training and tutorials for safety systems (and generally on tutorials).
Not at all! A flange is the part of a wheel that extends beyond the top surface of a rail. correct? Just look carefully at the image!
There is one flange.
This is clearly a graphical and/or model error/bug as the wheel is definitely not supposed to look or react like that. It’s an intermittent issue which has been around since release of TSW iirc.
The outer bit of the wheel is never supposed to go under the running rail, as seen here:
The wheel is just sunk into the rail a bit which makes it look like a flange on the outside. I was driving the Class 20 on WSR and it was doing the same there. It’s not a flange, its just a bad wheel/rail interaction in the graphics, the actual wheel model is fine.
Yes - but only on the inside of a rail. It's often not part of the wheel - as it is often an interference fit "tyre".... or flanged ring...
The image that you are looking at is giving you an optical illusion that the outside of the wheel is below the top surface of the rail. But it isn't. What you are seeing is a very narrow strip on the top of the curved surface of the rail that is worn and shiny - but the rail is much wider at the top than it appears in this picture, because most of the upper surface of the rail is dark (unworn) and in shadow, and some of it is rounded at the sides.
If you had flanges on both sides of the wheel, then the train would not be able to go around a curve, especlally if there was any significant cant or super-elevation (a raised outer rail). It would also be unable to traverse any cross-overs or points (switches).
Anyway - TSW2 is still in the very early stages of development, and nobody knows what will be included until they announce it is finished - so maybe they will include an ICE that has wheels with the flanges on both sides - it's all up in the air at the moment.
For clarity : we are more than aware that we don't teach players how to use some pretty complex systems in the game. This is something we want to address. It is likely that this will be done with video, rather than in-game (we recognise that in-game is superior, but it is a significant amount of work). There is no timeline for these videos being started. This is the kind of thing that, when work starts, will be added to the roadmap.
I am sure that this game is like any application you use day in day out. You use what you know, and the rest you don't. Until someone points an easy thing out and then wow there is whole new world.
I just wish the master switches were bright red/orange so every time you jumped in a new cab, you didn't spend 5 minutes hunting around for the blasted thing making you late again
Would you consider that realistic? In my experience, tutorials cover the location of master switches quite clearly. That doesn't mean that I always remember where to find them in an engine I haven't driven for a while, but "hunting around" for 5 minutes strikes me as a gross exaggeration.
It was said with my tongue firmly located in my cheek. But I do spend what seems like 5 minutes hunting for it. Or the other break thingy on the BR205 which I always forget to engage and cant work out why I am not going anywhere.
It must be said of course having it bright orange is not realistic. But it would help me find it
TSW2020 CLASS 66 WHEEL SLIP
TSW2020 CLASS 47 WHEEL SLIP
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