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Train Sim World 2 – Get A Grip!

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by TrainSim-James, Jul 21, 2020.

  1. TrainSim-James

    TrainSim-James Staff Member

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    [​IMG]

    Feel the slip and slide of wheels with adhesion...

    READ MORE
     
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  2. kylel2036

    kylel2036 Well-Known Member

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    oooo sparks go flyyy
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2020
  3. LiquidShadows

    LiquidShadows Active Member

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    Definitely looking forward to playing Train Sim World 2 and experiencing the games new ad-HEE-shun (NOT uh-DEE-shun) physics.
     
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  4. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Active Member

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    wa very good tsw2 Get A Grip
     
  5. CaptHart

    CaptHart New Member

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    British accents mate. Cheerio!!
     
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  6. Wooki74

    Wooki74 Member

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    The wheel flange is still on the wrong side.just saying. I will still buy day 1. Can't wait.
     
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  7. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Active Member

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    yes Can't wait tws2
     
  8. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    The wheel flange is not, and has never been, on the wrong side. Zoom in on the photo above and you can clearly see it where it belongs and has always been on this model.
     
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  9. Tay95

    Tay95 Well-Known Member

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    Looking forward to seeing sparks fly!
     
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  10. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    One if my favorite things about TSW2.
     
  11. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    That might be all I get to see. Sparks fly as I wear out another set of expensive ICE 3M wheels (I assume they don’t come cheap).
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2020
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  12. Tay95

    Tay95 Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure im going to be awful trying to get the right balance in every condition
     
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  13. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Yep - that is how I have always seen it - they have always been the right way around. The clue is that there is a dish-like recess in the wheel on the outside. On the inside side (the flange side), the wheel is usually flat (relatively).
     
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  14. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Active Member

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    yes i see
     
  15. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    Definitely the addition of adhesion physics was the highlight for me from the TSW2 reveal. To me it’s a very important part of railroad simulation and I’m glad to see DTG implementing it in TSW2. I’m already a big fan of driving heavy freight and this is going to add so much to the gameplay and challenge of driving in TSW2.
     
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  16. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    While I'm no expert, the flanges are clearly on both sides of the wheel, which strikes me as sensible at very high speeds.
     
  17. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Nope. They are only on the correct side.
     
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  18. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I suspect that LastTrainToClarksville was just joking.....

    I hope so anyway.... ;-O
     
  19. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    This seems like it could make a huge gameplay difference- weather having more than a cosmetic effect makes replaying services much more appealing IMO.
     
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  20. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Yep - it's massive. Potentially. But it could flop, because you need some other ingredients:

    1. Immersion - the wheelslip or slide must be communicated to the player properly - with sound, with gauges/dials, with lights, with sparks, with visual clues, etc... - and this could actually be quite tricky to pull off.

    2. Skill development - the actual process of learning to drive in different conditions, and improving your skill must be apparent to the player.

    3. Comparison - you must be able to tell the difference between two identical services played out in different conditions, and reflect on it.... so, some sort of detailed permanent/saved log of your performances would be needed - preferably something offline.....
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2020
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  21. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    Generally agree on all of this.

    I will say regarding your first point that the one time i experienced wheelslip in TSW2020 (CL37), it was quite apparent SOMETHING was happening- there was a sound, in-cab light, and HUD indicator. Being a veteran of tran-sims, i quickly figured it out, but it's never explained "in-game" via tutorials, etc.

    This leads into your second point- if a player repeatedly can't get their train up a steep incline, or keeps sliding through a downhill red signal, but there's no explanation in the game, or in documentation for WHY it's happening, that could really put less experienced players off the whole game. In more recent TSW2020 DLC's, I've noticed the addition of "emergency stop recovery procedures" to the tutorials, which had been a point of confusion for many people. Hope they do a similar thing for adhesion.

    Would also be a great time to start including gradient information in the manual, and even in-game text, such as in the service instructions, e.g., "be aware of 1.5% downhill grade beginning at MP17"
     
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  22. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Disintegration7 Sam specifically mentioned in the TSW 2 livestream regarding will there be tutorials to help players learn signalling, safety systems and other things, however, as you might have guessed already, DTG are not providing this information to new players (at the moment). Matt said he did want to provide it in the future, however there’s nothing concrete as to whether this will happen.

    So there’s no change there for TSW 2 unfortunately.
     
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  23. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info! Just to clarify- so there will be tutorials for these things eventually, but not at launch?
     
  24. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    That's what they hope to do in the future, however don't bet on anything, as we've seen this all too often with them saying we want to do x, y & z in the future, which never came into fruition.

    If it isn't there at launch, then don't expect it (to come anytime soon) is what the advice from DTG is now, to avoid disappointment. You're also, supposedly, supposed to keep your expectations low.

    This all sounds bad, however this is what it has come to following their failures in the past to deliver.
     
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  25. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    If it is the same discussion I saw - the impression that I got was that it was WIBNI territory - related to do PZB. I think it is a "critical must do" feature to have proper tutorials and documentation, in-game. YouTube videos are great, but they are no substitute to carefully crafted (and coded) tutorials.

    The lack of tutorials and manuals must have a big effect on knocking out potential users.... making retention difficult. The worst DLC by far (that I have seen) is RSN.... a total shocker. First introduction locks you out inappropriately, and then the first three Scenarios cannot be completed unless you already know the loco braking and power systems intimately (and beyond what the Intro tries to teach) - as you have to ignore the instructions.... The fourth Scenario tells you about a speed restriction that is only applied in the fiftth Scenario. It is as if the person recording the instructions really rushed it from some scrappy notes from a tele-conference meeting, and they made a complete hash of it. It still serves a purpose I guess - it is a good demonstration example of the worst possible way to make a tutorial for TSW.
     
  26. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Active Member

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    have video?
     
  27. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    From minute 26 for introduction to safety systems. From minute 27 for discussion about training and tutorials for safety systems (and generally on tutorials).
     
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  28. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Active Member

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    thank you
     
  29. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Not at all! A flange is the part of a wheel that extends beyond the top surface of a rail. correct? Just look carefully at the image!

    ICE wheel flanges.jpg
     
  30. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    There is one flange.
     
  31. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Active Member

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    no
     
  32. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    This is clearly a graphical and/or model error/bug as the wheel is definitely not supposed to look or react like that. It’s an intermittent issue which has been around since release of TSW iirc.

    The outer bit of the wheel is never supposed to go under the running rail, as seen here:
    upload_2020-7-23_16-40-7.jpeg
     
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  33. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    The wheel is just sunk into the rail a bit which makes it look like a flange on the outside. I was driving the Class 20 on WSR and it was doing the same there. It’s not a flange, its just a bad wheel/rail interaction in the graphics, the actual wheel model is fine.
     
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  34. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Yes - but only on the inside of a rail. It's often not part of the wheel - as it is often an interference fit "tyre".... or flanged ring...

    The image that you are looking at is giving you an optical illusion that the outside of the wheel is below the top surface of the rail. But it isn't. What you are seeing is a very narrow strip on the top of the curved surface of the rail that is worn and shiny - but the rail is much wider at the top than it appears in this picture, because most of the upper surface of the rail is dark (unworn) and in shadow, and some of it is rounded at the sides.

    If you had flanges on both sides of the wheel, then the train would not be able to go around a curve, especlally if there was any significant cant or super-elevation (a raised outer rail). It would also be unable to traverse any cross-overs or points (switches).

    Anyway - TSW2 is still in the very early stages of development, and nobody knows what will be included until they announce it is finished - so maybe they will include an ICE that has wheels with the flanges on both sides - it's all up in the air at the moment.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2020
  35. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Community Manager Staff Member

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    For clarity : we are more than aware that we don't teach players how to use some pretty complex systems in the game. This is something we want to address. It is likely that this will be done with video, rather than in-game (we recognise that in-game is superior, but it is a significant amount of work). There is no timeline for these videos being started. This is the kind of thing that, when work starts, will be added to the roadmap.
     
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  36. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Member

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    I am sure that this game is like any application you use day in day out. You use what you know, and the rest you don't. Until someone points an easy thing out and then wow there is whole new world.

    I just wish the master switches were bright red/orange so every time you jumped in a new cab, you didn't spend 5 minutes hunting around for the blasted thing making you late again :)
     
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  37. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Would you consider that realistic? In my experience, tutorials cover the location of master switches quite clearly. That doesn't mean that I always remember where to find them in an engine I haven't driven for a while, but "hunting around" for 5 minutes strikes me as a gross exaggeration.
     
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  38. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Member

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    It was said with my tongue firmly located in my cheek. But I do spend what seems like 5 minutes hunting for it. Or the other break thingy on the BR205 which I always forget to engage and cant work out why I am not going anywhere.

    It must be said of course having it bright orange is not realistic. But it would help me find it :)

    D
     
  39. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Active Member

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    TSW2020 CLASS 66 WHEEL SLIP
     
  40. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Active Member

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    TSW2020 CLASS 47 WHEEL SLIP
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2020
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