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Train Sim World 2 - A Snowy Spectacle

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Mar 25, 2021.

  1. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Community Manager Staff Member

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    TSW2_ArosaLinie_Social_Assets_Out_Now_ENG_1920x1080.jpg
    Read the article here.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
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  2. doomedcookie

    doomedcookie New Member

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    Great like but there is a few teething problems. Not a few but a lot of teething problems to me it's mostly the brakes.
    They're rather on or off not when you're going downhill.
     
  3. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    I find the brakes are one of the things that do work. I recommend the driving guide they posted on the Rivet Youtube channel.

    Try to bring most of your acceleration down with vacuum brake, normally around 40%-50% does it and then fine tune it with the dynamic brake, you rarely have to go over 30% on the dynamics.

    It does take quite a bit of dexterity and concentration to provide a smooth ride as you will notice your coaches jostle the engine all over the place if you adjust your brakes too quickly. But therein lies the fun.
     
  4. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The problem with that approach is not that it doesn't work in the game, but (according to real drivers) in RL it's dead wrong.
     
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  5. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    dynamic brakes are broken but it is a problem they will be working on to fix
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
  6. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    It’s a very nice route and I’m pleased with my purchase. RIVET should be proud of it.

    The scenery is very nice and there is clearly a massive amount of effort invested. I think the distant scenery is acceptable and the quality of the locomotive is enough to distract from areas of particular low quality.

    I hope the patch comes as quickly as possible however as there are several major issues that shouldn’t have really slipped through:

    -Random Derailments on some scenarios and timetable service.

    -Random derailments on southbound custom scenarios

    - When travelling northbound in timetable mode the game thinks the train is reversing. This means the gradient on the HUD and the pantograph position is wrong and the cars do not stop for the approaching train and drive right through in Chur.

    -Power and horn randomly cut-out becoming completely ineffective and silent in timetable mode.

    -Despite what the article says the livery designer does not work- can’t place decals on locomotive bodyside.

    -No freight to play with in timetable mode

    - A transparent mountain at Chur

    - No trains ever have taillights or any end-of-train marker (maybe this is prototypical I don’t know)


    Non-essential improvements I’d want would be:

    - More Passengers

    -More Scenario Planner options or unlock the points so we can do our own shunting.

    - Of course we’d never say no to some more ground foliage or distant trees
     
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  7. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    Would you mind sharing a link to where they say this so we can learn to do it properly?
     
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  8. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    So-called balanced braking is about using a possible minimal amount of air brake and using dynamic brake to control the speed.
    For now, dynamic brakes are partially broken so you need to use vacuum one only (other than IRL).
     
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  9. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/proper-train-handling-for-north-american-diesels.36398/

    Best practice is to use dynamics all the time, friction brakes only at intervals to adjust speed. Keeping friction brakes on as a 'drag' all the time will lead (in real life) to failure through overheat... and even if they don't fail, the maintainers will curse your name for making them replace the burned-out shoes.
     
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  10. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    If the dynamic brakes applied to the whole train then of course, but they only apply the locomotive brakes and the heat has to be dissipated by the apparatus on the roof. This means you wouldn’t want to be heavily applying the dynamics as the coaches behind would be pushing into each other and the engine whilst the heat exchanger overheats.

    I don’t know enough about it to say either way but if there’s a link to a Swiss Driver explaining how they use their brakes instead of heavy North American freight then I’m happy to admit I’m wrong.
     
  11. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Believe me, you don't want to overload your airbrakes. This can also lead to the loss of the brakes altogether. I just wrote to you about how it should work :) (in general)

    PS There are tons of IRL videos on YT where you'll hear exactly the same \o/ common knowledge
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
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  12. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    I haven’t found any on the RHB, do you mind sharing any you have?

    It would be nice to use the brakes properly.
     
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  13. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Not really. Sure, the coupler slack will bunch, but that can be dealt with by not slamming them on (only an issue in electric locos, in diesels they necessarily come on gradually)-- also, five coaches ain't a lot of coupler slack, nor consist weight. Overheat? Not if the system is properly designed and the loco isn't overburdened with too heavy a consist- and these Arosa trains weigh nothing, and the GE 4/4 II is equipped with an absolutely massive heat exchanger for this very reason.
     
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  14. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Physics don't work any differently in Switzerland than they do in the rest of the world.
     
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  15. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    use google for this my friend - hard to find specific CSX, RHB, DB... look for some general materials
    excactly
     
  16. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    a.paice - this one is very good in general - this guy from Searchlight is a real train driver (or conductor)



    and maybe this one (conductor on duty)

     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
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  17. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your help
     
  18. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    Yeh your right it does make sense.

    It’s a little annoying Rivet have made a video about how to drive which seems to be just fiction.

    I’d be interested to know where they got their info and if they can back it up.
     
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  19. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Euro train, specific for this route, could be a little different, but (today's stream) - it should be done this way.
    More important - just enjoy the ride \o/
    PS Still, this is very fascinating!
    EDIT Besides, Switzerland certainly cares about ecology!



    ... In the case of traction vehicles, unlike in America (there is only heat in the chimney), some energy can be recovered.
    And if that works for Arosa - ask Jamie! :D
    ...... My little request for the future, DTG - it would be a very informative statistic (energy used) and an interesting task for Simugraph. It works for the competition, Matt \o/
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
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  20. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    Physics are the same, but the situation isn't. Here we are facing bigger inclines then your average US train. More things come into play, or so I would think. Model trains can exhibit similar behaviour, and so do trucks when they jackknife. While a general rule might be a good starting point, the extreme inclines sure deserve special attention.
     
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  21. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, but Arosa trains are '100' times lighter than US freight trains, on 3%+ grades... using dynamics :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
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  22. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what to tell you. I also was expecting to use the dynamic brake only, but if they say so there must be a reason. Hopefully it's a reason other than "TSW physics can't deal with it otherwise"
     
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  23. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    It was not a complaint from my side. During today's broadcast, the gentlemen mentioned that this is a technical problem for the game and that they will fix it! PS I'm sure it will happen. This may work fine now, but it leads to derail at times :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
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  24. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    As breblimator mentioned, the gradient is slightly bigger, but the trains weigh A LOT LESS. We're talking 100t compared to sometimes over 10000t in the US. And even those are kept going downhill purely by the dynamic brake. The point is the cars don't bounce up and down all the time, they stack on the couplers and stay relatively "calm". You don't have any massive force there, the only force is the dynamic braking just strong enough to keep the speed constant.
     
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  25. thomastl59374

    thomastl59374 Active Member

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    I love this route, it's a nice change from sitting in cab doing 200km/h plus and hitting acknowledge every so often, keeping you on your toes all the time. I really like some of the details that are in this route, including opening passenger windows, the pantograph spark and the traffic in Chur. I would really like to see the request stop working on the AI trains and fingers crossed for services with freight in timetable mode. I would recommend this route, it may be slow in reality but it feels fast pace and one wrong move and you're off the rails. Great job by Rivet can't wait to see what they do next
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2021
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  26. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I found only about 20% on the vacuum brakes is required, but that means using ~80/82% on the dynamic brakes, although it would be very difficult to use the air brakes at intervals.

    Jasper said using 0.5 power while releasing the brakes was realistic according to some documentation they had, so let's see if they say something about this using that information.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2021
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  27. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    I've run all the way down on 50% dynamics and 31% vacuum brakes on the 6% sections. Not at all realistic but it works. I agree with all the posters who say that running in vacuum brakes is bogus. I don't care what your gradient is, doing it with friction brakes all the way is going to fail. You wouldn't make it down one trip let alone a day's worth.

    Normal train running requires you to use dynamics as much as possible when you've got them. You use the friction brake to slow down lots and when on steep gradients you would apply and get as much as you can out of each application (i.e. almost coming to a stop) then release and let the train speed up then apply again. Keep doing that. Regardless of air or friction you need to make sure your source is keeping up with your usage.

    Paul
     
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  28. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

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    Dynamic brakes are either regenerative or rheostatic (or both). The RhB GE 4/4 ii has thyristor drive so the traction motors are DC and as such the dynamic brakes will almost surely be rheostatic (regenerative braking for thyristor locomotives is very uncommon due to afaik interference effects and low efficiency although someone may correct me if I'm wrong).

    Rheostatic brakes simply convert the kinetic energy during braking into heat that is cooled in radiators. This means that the maximum braking power is whatever the radiators can handle.

    Since radiators work by convection (on heatsinks) and airbrakes are cooled (mostly) by conduction (at 30km/h any convection is low) you can brake with more force and for longer durations using rheostatic brakes compared to using air brakes. Think running a computer with either a cpu cooler or without and only having a room fan blowing at it lol.

    Lastly, I don't know what the max dynamic braking force for the GE 4/4 is but at the speeds used on the Arosa line the braking power will be less than 600 kW (30 km/h * 106 t * 6% * g) for even 6% grade so the locomotive will probably be able to handle that continuously.
     
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  29. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    It is rheostatic. The loco has a rather big heatsink between the pantographs.
     
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  30. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    another coal lovers - I'm disappointed :D
     
  31. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    I think they're probably more of hydro lovers in Switzerland :D
     
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  32. vogelm10

    vogelm10 Well-Known Member

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    Can't paint the sides of the ge 4/4
     
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  33. appledates#4945

    appledates#4945 Well-Known Member

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    The third scenario “Timber log delivery” really surprised me with how challenging it was, especially in particular towards the end. I hope I wasn’t the only one to have some nail biting moments with this one!
     
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  34. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest

    Yes, impossible to add layers on the side of the loco.
    but it does not matter I do with ...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  35. appledates#4945

    appledates#4945 Well-Known Member

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    Holy mountain goat, those are beautiful pictures!
     
  36. appledates#4945

    appledates#4945 Well-Known Member

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    I recommend trying a Chur-Arosa service with the blizzard settings and at night, . The way the ice and snow encompass the cab, and the trees blowing around and the city lights, it’s a fun experience. This route is also a great route for showing how in service mode the rain will turn to snow as your climbing in altitude and the temperature decreases. I’ll maybe practice a little more before trying to tackle Arosa-Chur in this situation but I highly recommend people try it out!
     
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  37. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest

    White day ...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Well; after playing on the road for a long time i think i like it a lot.
    I liked the WSR to relax but I admit that the Arosa is much better after all.

    I highly recommend it, the driving is really very nice.
     
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  38. sophieclarke1983

    sophieclarke1983 Well-Known Member

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    For people whinging about the brakes drive the class 101 then you’ll see what bad brakes are
     
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  39. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    I would encourage you to make a post with screen shots or video illustrating your issue in the technical forum to be sure its seen.

    Paul
     
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  40. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    I found it the same. Very challenging and interesting. It took me a little while to figure out what they wanted me to do :). I really enjoyed playing it. The only criticism I have is the unrealistic passenger operation that you end up delaying. When you arrive into the station you're going to drop the logs, there is no way a railway would leave a passenger train sitting out at the signal while you shunted a freight. They would bring it in alongside then send it on its way delaying you to shunt. I would have also expected to arrive into the opposite platform which has the siding which would make the shunting easier given the manual points are in that road. At the end of the shunt I thought it had broken when the signal stayed red until I realised it was waiting for the train that went on down the hill to clear the section.

    Paul
     
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  41. appledates#4945

    appledates#4945 Well-Known Member

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    After spending some more time with Arosa, I can say I absolutely am glad to be in Switzerland driving this route. Stopping at stations through out Chur is a welcome new experience that I really enjoy, and has me hoping we receive a Frankfurt tram route some day in TSW2 as driving with and throughout traffic as they pass in front and beside you is well, great! The mountain portion of the route being at a steady 6% grade mixed with how well the locomotive itself is represented this really has been a fun, challenging, new experience and I couldn’t ask for more from a new route. I have been enjoying my time with this route!
     
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  42. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    I too love a bit of tram action. If you've got TS2021 there is an Interurban route Sacramento Northern which is pretty close to trams and has some street running.

    Paul
     
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  43. focalpro1

    focalpro1 New Member

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    Why there's (I mean whole game) no snow layer on winter? Terrain color changes, but nothing is covered in snow. In winter I should see only rails.
     
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