Train Sim World 2 - Bringing Steam To Tsw2

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Jan 12, 2021.

  1. Stephen Crofts

    Stephen Crofts Well-Known Member

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    I remember reading in the first rush hour blurb an intention to move away from large yearly updates to smaller more regular updates of the core, so you may be on to something there.
    However given how rush hour release has gone, I too would be surprised if anything happens too quickly.

    It is however intriguing and enjoyable to get these more detailed snippets of dev news from time to time. Prefer that to articles to be honest.
     
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  2. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    However, that implies something like a heritage railway set today, since vintage routes require a lot more work, at least at the research end. One can't just use a camera and Google Earth for them.
     
  3. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    I believe there have been comments from DTG suggesting they want to offer proper period running off the bat rather than a preservation setting, that was some months ago though, I believe.
     
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  4. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    They might just stick a steam loco on WSR.
     
  5. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Not necessarily. I think this was meant more to say that steam locos are not that much harder to do once the core work for them is done. Considering that the next steam article was supposed to be about researching routes set in the past, I highly doubt any sort of preserved/heritage line will be the first steam DLC.
     
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  6. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I'd put a couple bucks on that horse. I don't think they would necessarily create a whole new route for steam initially.
     
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  7. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    I reckon the first steam route will be quite short , as it’s something new that dtg haven’t done before . It’ll probably also be a British route , something like the bluebell railway or the IOW steam railway
     
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  8. Javelin

    Javelin Member

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    As the steam release has a title 'Spirit of Steam' i would assume that it would be a 3 route bundle same as tsw2 and rush hour was, could be wrong though.
     
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  9. Rail Runner

    Rail Runner Well-Known Member

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    My guess is that steam will only be available for next gen, and also be either a loco for WSR, or it will be another steam route like IOW or KESR. My guess is that it will also be a very demanding add on for FPS… but hopefully I will get my hands on a PS5 by then :)
     
  10. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    Just a thought. Although I like steam trains in real life, I’m not that interested in steam in TSW2. I think it will be too complicated to enjoy, particularly if you have to do the fireman’s job as well. However, I might very well be interested in the routes released with the package. If steam trains only were included, I would be restricted to using scenario planner to drive the route. I’m wondering if there would be scope to include a separate timetable for one or more non-steam locos, either through layering or including a new or existing loco with the package.

    For example, a UK Heritage route could include a classic DMU such as the 101, which would be appropriate to the route. Alternatively, if mainline routes were set in the last days of steam (say, mid to late 60s in the UK), steam and diesel traction could co-exist.

    Does anyone else feel the same?
     
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  11. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Couple of things. There's no reason why steam and diesel can't coexist on the same route. Indeed TS has several routes that run both, both as player trains and AI.

    When I was playing TS, I initially shied away from steam traction because, like you, I thought it was too complicated. I would run out of water or coal and had difficulty with climbing hills, and other issues. But, the more I played, the better I became at driving those beasts and the more fun I had with steam. Like anything else in train simming, it's a learning curve that adds variety to the hobby.
     
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  12. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    It can also coexist with electric traction I think. If I remember correctly, the Woodhead line in TS had both types of traction.

    Releasing the steam loco together with another non steam loco is a smart move: people who don't like steam engines will buy it for the other loco and may end up trying and liking steam, thus buying future steam content. I'm sure DTG thought of that.
     
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  13. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. For Germany, a line set in the (late) 50s, 60s, or 70s could even have steam, diesel, and electrics all running on the same route.
     
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  14. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    The Great Eastern Main Line would be a good candidate for that. The Britannia Class locomotives would have been running the Expresses back then whilst Class 306 EMUs were running the Shenfield Shuttle, the Woodhead 76s were also running the line back then for a brief period. Interestingly of the 3 of those, the Britannias are the newest.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2021
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  15. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    The maerdy branch with its colliery and passenger & freight services would be a nice start for steam. Time period in the 1960s before the beeching cut.

    Screenshot_20211026-060623_Chrome.jpg Screenshot_20211026-061320_Chrome.jpg

    Optional also a route version in the 80s

    Screenshot_20211026-061125_Chrome.jpg Screenshot_20211026-061125_Chrome.jpg Screenshot_20211026-061037_Chrome.jpg Screenshot_20211026-061010_Chrome.jpg
     
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  16. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    Loved that route in TS
     
  17. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    IOW seems like a good place to consider as it already been hinted at on the IOW line.By having the area of switch around track and a station shown.Plus there several excellent vintage UK steam locos to select from,at least 1 or 2 of then could make nice fun edition to the game and the 2 and 4 axle passenger carriage options are also very nice as well.It's only 5.5 miles and only has a limited number of stations,so it wouldn't need a lot of building time,so more time could be spent fine tuning the steam locos.(Yea yea i know wish full thinking on this part of it).
     
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  18. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    meridian#2659 that bottom pic reminds me of that bloke that stood in front of that tank in China, LOL.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2021
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  19. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    The transition era is one of the more, if not most popular era people base their model railroads on here in the US, so a DTG route on TSW2 set in that era with both a 1st generation diesel and steam could be a good sell once DTG figures out the basics of steam.

    The hard part would be picking which railroad to set it on.
     
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  20. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I think Norfolk and Western were one of the last steam holdouts, so a southern coal route might be good. Of course, HSC would have been ideal too, but steam would not mix with an EC44AC.:D The TS version has a nice K4 to go with its older diesels.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2021
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  21. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The thing with a US route is that steam disappeared so early. The F7 is the only US loco in TSW which co-existed with steam on any Class 1's; none of the others currently in game yet existed when the last steamers vanished from the mainline. So DTG would have to go back to the 50s or earlier for American steam, unless they do a heritage railway.
     
  22. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to see the first steam engines to be done as a way of an introduction to steam and then maybe a triple route later, one for each region. But if the Mallard does not make an appearance it would be a great shame.
     
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  23. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Technically the GP9RM would count, even though it is a chopped nose rebuild of the original High hood GP9s from the 50s.

    And with big US steam most likely not coming till after steam is firmly established, there is room for an early diesel loco to come with another route or as a loco DLC between now and then.
     
  24. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I'm still holding out tenuous hope for a high-nose GP7 as a Clinchfield DLC.

    The GP9RMs are so heavily modded as to be practically different engines, including 645 power assemblies, Dash-2 electrics and the cabs turned around (the original CN GP9s were long-hood-forward), and Type 26 brakes. Darn near GP38-2s.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2021
  25. Schuppenheizer

    Schuppenheizer New Member

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    Hopefully we'll get a dynamic whistle like in Railroads online, not just a few loops like in the train simulator. Own music on bridges.:love:
     
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  26. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking about this the other day and thought something like the old Fairford Branch would be good. It was a UK railway modelling cliche in the 70’s but it has a lot going for it. Well documented and a decent length run all the way into Oxford. Plenty of scope for freight. Only downside is weight restrictions on the branch led to tank locos or lightweight tender locos only. The GWR railcars also put in an appearance, there’s a nice DLC straightaway.

    http://www.fairfordbranch.co.uk/

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Branch-Lin...W,B07NX6B53P,B0768TZ47P,B00JYB3MCE,B07N24WQPN
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2021
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  27. steamfan#1309

    steamfan#1309 Active Member

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    The Norfolk and Western, from what I know, never went above 100 mph. So theareticly they could have that route done before spring 2022.
     
  28. steamfan#1309

    steamfan#1309 Active Member

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    They should work with them to get the pixels down
     
  29. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    Derail Valley also has a dynamic whistle.
     
  30. khalidaliishmail

    khalidaliishmail Member

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    I would hope to see at least some period steam routes eventually in TSW just to have the full steam experience (1950s to early 1960s for the UK, late 1940s for USA). Although modern heritage lines are interesting too, I feel like it would be a missed opportunity to put all this work into getting steam locos in the sim only for them to be restricted to the relatively light loads and slow speeds on a typical UK heritage route. That might be ok for a small 0-4-0T or 0-6-0T, but for anything bigger it's going to be frustrating not to be able open the loco up and utilise it to the fullest extent.
     
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  31. steamfan#1309

    steamfan#1309 Active Member

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    Short lines around the 60s should float everyone's boat as most of them are still around or are synic railroads/hearatige railways
     
  32. ady.hewitt

    ady.hewitt Member

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    The easiest and least costly route to add any steam trains to for testing and release must surely be the west Somerset.

    Gradients a plenty and simple runs to get used to all the new things that are needed to get these things running.
     
  33. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I know next to nothing about steam trains. The steam in TSW is going to be my education on the subject. I’m expecting Spirit of Steam to be a bundle. There’s no point limping in with your head down for this, DTG will want the launch to be a big affair, an extravaganza, as a lot of people have been waiting for this for a long time. I’m not sure a small tank engine on a heritage route is that. There’s no reason, if they have the tech working, that they can’t go straight in with the big and famous locos. That’s my take on it.
     
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  34. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    I disagree stujoy
    The first dlc or bundle will be something smaller like a tank loco, because the main selling point will be steam itself. Famous locos will come later, because people will for sure buy the Mallard DLC, but might not be interested in a smaller tank engine. If you link the less appealing product with the introduction of the steam physics, you get better sales. Having said that, I kinda prefer tank engines :)
     
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  35. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I would say the Wallingford - Cholsey would be the easiest as it is single track and only a few miles long, lovely countryside though.

    If I had my wish DTG would release something like the Rocket on the first Inter City Railway, Liverpool - Manchester. And there were quickly added more Engine's, Arrow, Planet, Phoenix, Northumbrian ETC and loads I have missed. This would be great as an introduction to steam and then it can move on to the more well known Steam Engines but this will not happen as I fear WTG probably won't be doing any 'new' routes but using modern lines which kind of puts me off a little.
     
  36. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Im sure dtg was at that point too when they decided what to bring first, so we maybe get both. I agree with stujoy that this "special" needs to have an impact on the customer base.

    So my guess would be a route in the transition era with both steam and diesel layers. And for steam we get something like a standard 4mt or 8F, and a 3f jinty or pannier tank as small shunter.

    My personal favourite Project to me personal would be a network based route like "waredale & teesdale network", so there is plenty of coillery, mines and passenger to do.

    8.jpg

    3.jpg
     
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  37. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I find myself sort of between you two. I do think that DTG will want to make a big fuss about it to get as many people as possible into steam. The more people buy the first route/bundle, the more potential customers are there for future steam DLCs if the first one was good enough to hook them (not counting those people waiting on a specific loco/line). At the same time, something big and famous like the Big Boy or <put famous UK engine here - excuse my lack of familiarity with UK steam locos> will probably backfire. Too much potential for things to go wrong with the first steam locos to immediately try the most advanced and complicated steam locos out there. Expectations for steam are high enough as is, using a famous loco (or class of loco) will just increase expectations to a probably unrealistic level. It would draw in lots of sales though.
     
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  38. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    You seriously haven't heard of the Rocket, Flying Scotsman or the fastest of them all the Mallard? lol. I think I'm more inclined to agree with fabristunt. Going for the big and greatest straight off the bat will no doubt create an impact but if they get it wrong it might create the wrong sort of impact. Look at Rush Hour, Engine update etc bold moves but have big problems at the same time.

    Surely it would be better to start off with a small Engine to gain confidence going forward, as I said before putting Steam Engines on Modern routes might be an immersion killer for some.
     
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  39. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    The added benefit of making famous locos later is that by then they'll have worked out most of the issues.
     
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  40. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I have heard of them. Since I'm not as familiar with UK railroads as I am with US and German railroads, I have no idea which of these would be the go-to loco to get a big name in the game. There's no shame in admitting that other people are more knowledgeable than me to my mind.
     
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  41. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    No of course not, I didn't mean to sound arrogant, I'm the same with the US and German trains TBH so no shame at all.
     
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  42. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    Just outside Chemnitz there is a railway museum which looks like they run steam trains occasionally for rail tours.

    If they have this built in the upcoming Dresden Chemnitz route, with the 2 turntables, you can be sure that will be a steam loco DLC in the future for it.
     
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  43. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I'm expecting a " Rush Hour " type of release featuring 3 steam locos, one from each of the major markets. I don't know much about German steam and which route it could use, but US and UK steamers are well-known to most of us, and just about any current TSW route ran steam alone or transition steam/ early diesel. Or, we might be surprised with new routes, who knows?

    However, I see no room for timidity from DTG. I expect main line steamers like Challenger ( maybe for SH ) or a GS-4 (with an SP route ) or even a K4 (for HSC ). On the UK side of the pond, I'd be looking for a Castle or King class for a Riviera route or even, God bless it, a Coronation for the Settle-Carlisle route.

    DTG should " go long or not at all " or to quote Daniel Burnham, " Make no little plans. They have no magic in them to stir men's blood. ":love:
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2021
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  44. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    You show a lot of confidence in DTG, I hope it isn't misplaced.
     
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  45. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I'd be disappointed if the first steamer was a 57xx pannier or a little J94 or something similar.
     
  46. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    It likely will be as DTG have already said their first steamer will not be anything that grand or iconic like a Big Boy or a Mallard, however I imagine that they will be making those as soon as they're able so as to reap a good return on their investment.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2021
  47. zefreak

    zefreak Active Member

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  48. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Hmm. Must have missed that. Did they explain why they were starting small? Can't see them selling many Hunslets or small tanks outside of the UK.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2021
  49. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    They said it's a matter of getting their footing in accurately modelling basic steam behaviour before trying anything more complex (i.e., avoiding a poor recreation of something iconic by being too hasty).

    Cheers
     
  50. Wolfovizer

    Wolfovizer Well-Known Member

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    Matt said that they have got steam trains running over 100mph but to not take that as any sort of a clue (it's just future proofing), nothing was said about starting small or big. Something I did notice is that Matt says "locomotives" whether that's multiple on one route or talking about different loco's on different routes I'm not sure, but interesting anyway :)

    This is where they start talking about steam, 1:37:17 if the link doesn't work.

    This is where they talk about speed/loco's 1:41:28.

    Where Matt talks about over 100mph not being a hint, 1:42:41 if the link doesn't work.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2021

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