Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Jamie, May 28, 2021.
Very good answer! I saw the same video on YouTube some months ago.
About this route:
- Scenery looks really amazing, and unique for TSW2 routes.
- Locomotives it have some issues as you mentioned to be fixed or changed
- The uranium wagons seems not be on the route.
May be this is due to, they are not worthy to do it for DTG and / or Skyhook, as they will be used only for this route.
Finally it is clear if Skyhook makes just the route and DTG the trains, or working together on both things?
I believe the route is by Skyhook, and the locomotives and freight cars, -as their were already used on other routes- are by DTG (grain / oil / open hoppers)
As their are still working on it, and it is not announce the launch date, please let's give a chance to developers to complete / correct them all, or at least the majority of the issues with complains.
So look forward for the next information and pictures about this great route.
Even it is not so long as I will prefer, it seems to be very interesting, considering also the 12 scenarios and full day timetable!
But it could equally be the case that Skyhook have done the locos by modifying the existing DTG models.
Yes, that is another possible situation about it.
It will be good if DTG informs about it.
May be we will have to wait until their stream about this route.
For me, the scenery is enough for a must-have, but nice, working trains could be a nice addition.
Although I don't pretend to know, I would at least be surprised if DTG had their own people working on a 3rd-party DLC. Ordinarily it's the reverse: DTG subcontracting 3rd-party developers to help with DTG releases (and paying them to do so)
I mean, the cars themselves are also used in trash duty as well, actually saw one of them about a month ago with 4 Waste Management containers on it.
But it also falls under the category of realism vs gameplay.
-Do you develop the correct cars, but also need to develop a new way to load/unload the cars at their destinations?
-Or do you cheap out and use a system that is already in use on another route?
Or their own. The SD40 on their website could be easily modified. Adding the extra length and porches, UP trucks and livery and some cab variations could turn it into a Dash 2. They have plenty of experience modeling locomotives and rolling stock.
Sooner or later I think the game definitely needs a functional container loader, there are already big terminals in the game, but no system to work with. It definitely will be difficult (especially as the game will have to correctly recognise the position on a train), but can't be dodged forever.
A loco for TSW2 would require a new ground-up physics model built in Simugraph. The 3D model and skin are the least of it.
I’m guessing that they’re slightly modified versions of the SPG models to be prototypical for what Union Pacific owns. My only concern is that they might not change the sounds, which are a huge issue on SPG.
The beauty is short-lived, can you go to Salt Lake City? Will pass the soldier pinnacle line!
Yes what you mentioned is true.
But frankly speaking they are not common freight cars on the US, and probably they do not make another route using them.
Loading / unloading containers will be a great feature. But not seems to be easy to do it.
Mainly because in case of coal, - we already have it - you only see the coal falling, and the train is also moving slowly.
For containers, they must be - and see- them - parked one by one side of the track, and then a moving crane will have to pickup each of them, and place it on different double stack wagon, one over the other. So this will be really very complicated to simulate.
Furthermore please also notice DTG has already made a simplification with the new route Hamburg - Lubeck with the Dostos.
Not modifying them to the right platform height.
They mentioned. it was due to they have to rebuild all the model just for that, so it does not worth it.
Sam just stated on the roadmap stream that the route is in the middle of testing, so it's unlikely that there would be any significant changes to the content, from what is in the screenshots, at this point IMO.
Thats still a fairly small portion considering they have/had 1338 units total. It would have been much more interesting and realistic to use the numberboards mounted at the top of the cab.
Doing the math on that subtracting the AC4460CW convertibles leaves about 405 out of the 1338, so yes they are the minority vs the Ex-SP units (277) and the other UP orders (656)
yeah some of my initial enthusiasm is gone too
practically nothing new rolling stock wise...
the hopper cars arn't entirely copied, the graffiti is different and there's also a blank version (all the Penn. corridor cars are graffitied)
the SD40 was copied and then edited, you can see they arn't dirty enough and other than moving and adding a couple things they look exactly like their CSX counterparts which are in-game already. the cab screenshot shows that currently the cab of the new SD40 is the same as the old one.
All the covered hoppers are unmarked in the pictures but they are the same color as the CN and CSX ones, so I guess those aren't done either.
someone pointed out all the stuff wrong with the AC44, all I can say is in it's current form it feels wrong. I see these things ALL THE TIME, I live a few blocks from a railroad track which gets lots of stack trains with ES44ACs and AC4400s as power (there is literally never anything else) and when I first laid eyes on the TSW UP AC44, I said to my self, somethings very wrong here, I'm not really sure what it is. it was obviously copied from the CSX version as a starting point, which is logical I guess, but DTG would have covered it up before showing it off. Skyhook did not, so either they really don't care, or they're planning to fix it later and this was all so they could have something to show off.
Clearly none of this stuff is done yet and was rushed. it feels like they still have a LOT to fix, and that they released the pictures just to show us around where they were in the development process.
I mean if the soil is radioactive, perhaps we shouldn't stick it in an open-top hopper car and train it around at around 60 miles an hour while hoping it doesn't fly out the top and spread everywhere. feels like they took inspiration from the contaminated soil removal on Peninsula Corridor.
The soil isn't really "radioactive."
sorry that was my understanding of it. IDK it just didn't seem safe at all
The traces of Uranium is minor, but still enough to cause contamination of the nearby Colorado River, but the main source of pollution is ammonia.
Though they still use caution in transporting the materials, which include using "clean" and "dirty" trucks. Sealing the containers with a knife edge seal, as well as a radiological survey of the containers before transport to ensure the outsides are clean of contaminates.
Route itself still looks good, and nice to see that they are offsetting the lack of services with the increased amount of scenarios at least. With that said I still don't see my self grabbing it because of the stock selection. Mainly because they're engines that already exist, at least they actually operate on the line, but it's still the same stock from Sand Patch at large. If they upgrade the sounds and physic a lot then maybe I'll change my mind, but I'm not expecting their to be any meaningful differences besides that slight alterations that have already been made.
I feel like this has been overdue, considering this happens long before we even see an image of a route/loco add-on, but the stats for Cane Creek have finally entered the steamdb:
Release shouldn't be too far away now.
It's not much realism vs gameplay, it's more like the issue Sam brought up with HHL, is it better to develop a bad representation of reality hoping it's "close enough" and people won't care, or is better to not do the DLC at all? I'm more keen on the second option. Both this route and HHL were a mistake (IMO), both should have come out another time, maybe when there was already a container loading/unloading system developed for another DLC (it's going to happen sooner or later), just like HHL should have been made after a model of the high door DoStos was made and after the BR143 got some good, working sounds to copy/paste (again, chances are, it's going to happen sooner or later).
We saw this same exact problem (but reversed) for Arosa, if Rivet was not capable/did not have the time and resource to get a good scenery and a good timetable AS WELL as the good train we got, it would have been better if the DLC was not made at all (IMO).
Some DLCs got away with it, like the BR101 but that was so incredibly good, the cab car issue was ""forgiven"", is Cane Creek scenery going to salvage this route, like the sheer quality and amount if features of the BR101? I am not sure, but we will see.
This ethic might also relieve Adam's team a bit, which I'm sure will get a lot of pressure to add (for example) the high door DoStos to HHL whenever they are made, and as we know, with TSW nothing is as straightforward as it seems.
The model of the AC4400CW is not completed I gues, because the hydraulic dampers on the bogies are missing. I really hope the change the model into a normal UP version with the numbers placed on the cab instead of the nose.
Having read the Trains article on this route, containers are the norm on the dirt train both to contain the dirt as well to easy the transfer process at both ends. Will we see them, probably not, since they want to give us 'loading' and they are unable to load and unload them at this point. Good pictures in this article which show UP with varied length trains and motive power running the line.
So 2 other thoughts on this...
1. I really hope that flashing ditchlights are not on any of the locomotives that will come with the route. Union Pacific never ordered theirs with these features, and the only ones that do have them are the Ex-Southern Pacific units. (Which are not represented with the current models)
2. I also hope that each service will have their proper train symbols, like how SPG has the CSX symbols for their route. Unlike Peninsula Corridor, which didn't.
The Potash Local Should be LDG51 based on this chart: http://railroadfan.com/wiki/index.php/UP_Train_Symbols
I have no clue what the dirt train is.
Hopefully next Thursday the preview stream
We will get the Cathcart Circle release stream this week, so unfortunately we will need to wait a bit more. Next week if we are lucky.
Most probably preview stream at the end d of June and release of CCB in July. Explanation: Since SEH we got one route per month. So after Cathcart in June we will get CCB in July most probably.
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