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Train Sim World 2 - Climb Aboard The Clinchfield

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Apr 8, 2021.

  1. Richard CZE

    Richard CZE Well-Known Member

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    Can you advise me? How we set up at F7 banking service. I have two SD40s in the back, but I can't get them up and running.
     
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  2. NW 1218

    NW 1218 Member

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    DTG,

    You guys nailed the F7. It looks great. The prime mover sounds are off by one notch ascending. So what you hear in N4 should actually be N3. The horn and bell rock. Physics seem pretty good. The goofy 24 air works like it should, far as I could tell. Not sure why you modeled a rearward horn cord when the engines only have one horn.

    The SD40...I like the new prime mover sounds. In the cab...a horn button? No. Should be a handle. This is the 1970s...not 2021. Here's the big let down. The horn. Really? With how well you did on the F7s, I'd have imagine these would've been great too considering you had to craft a whole new model. Clinchfield SD40s had Leslie S3Ls. It's modeled properly. The fact that the generic awful K5LA from all the Sandpatch engines was used really strikes a nerve. We're paying for this stuff, guys. Is it really that hard? This really needs to be addressed and a patch made. It pulls so much realism from the game for those of us who know what we're looking at and listening for. If i'm running Clinchfield SD40s through the Breaks, I don't want to hear that junk.

    Also, there's those of us who have reached out and extended the olive branch of help on US stuff. Quit ignoring us. It's getting old. This rushing stuff out to make a buck thing isn't working. The route isn't a let down by any means, but these details mentioned above being overlooked is ridiculous for the $30 you want to charge people for the route.
     
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  3. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Controls the horn on the other engine.
     
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  4. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    As Matt said in the stream, they have the raw sound file for the S3L, it's just a question of getting it mixed and they'll include it in a patch, sooner rather than later (all new routes seem to get a bug-fix patch within a week or two of release)
     
  5. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    MUCH NEEDED FIX FOR THE F7:

    Applies to many other locos across TSW, but driving Clinchfield it's especially aggravating. There has to be a serious, palpable detent in the brake lever between Service and Emergency (just like there is in real life). As it stands, it is waaaaaaay too easy to pull it into Emergency by accident, which not only means a full stop and PCS reset, but in many cases leaves you having to get started again on a steep upgrade with a massively heavy train.
     
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  6. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    They CANNOT use any audio sources from the community due to possible copyright issues, which was explained in the Arizona Divide stream.

    Explained at 1:16:40
     
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  7. Blackwolf

    Blackwolf Member

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    Yes Thank you. I have the same problem. Is probably something im doing wrong. So a chrcklist would be nice
     
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  8. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Oh, naughty, naughty Matt!

    SD40 tutorial- you actually have the driver leave the cab with no brakes set and the reverser not in neutral??????
     
  9. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    In the period modeled, these would be manned helpers, so don't know how to set up from the lead.
     
  10. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    If you want to do the full "three step" then the field switch should be set to off and the reverser handle out.
     
  11. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Correct. But leaving out those steps is less likely to get someone killed than leaving the brakes off and the engine in gear!
     
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  12. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    IN SPG it's modeled by having an interactable button on the radio which abstracts voice comms between front and rear. But that apparently isnt modeled in the F7, so I'm clueless here.
     
  13. vogelm10

    vogelm10 Well-Known Member

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    OSHA won't be happy lol. How is audio copyrighted? It's an engine sound or a horn, that isn't ip.
     
  14. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    That’s not strictly true. It would difficult to prove the ownership of copyright in a recording and verify the permission to use it but it doesn’t mean it is entirely out of the question, if all those things are in place. They just don’t want everyone bombarding them with unusable sounds or unrealistic offers of help.
     
  15. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    True enough- but how was the sound obtained? If the individual was trespassing on RR property, that's a problem-- and DTG can't prove he wasn't.
     
  16. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Maybe this is the right time to invest and buy some real stuff for taking recording - link
    These are for cars, down-scaled but look like a good start :D
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
  17. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Im pretty sure the FRA and NTSB wouldn't be happy either.
     
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  18. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone point to a website which explains CRR's signaling system?
     
  19. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    A theory. I wonder if Sam or Matt or some member of staff would comment? I have just an inkling that perhaps back when the decision was taken to make Clinchfield for TSW, one argument in favor was the availability of the restored F7 CRR 800 (owned by CSX, with whom DTG have very good relations) for close study and research, even sound recordings. But then COVID happened, and DTG had to come up with research workarounds. Not that they didn't build a magnificent model, anyway...
     
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  20. vogelm10

    vogelm10 Well-Known Member

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    Working on a guide for us as we speak! Just have to get a few more aspects captured so we can have everything!

    It should be done by this evening, they don't seem to have too many aspects.

    The only really peculiar thing I've noticed is the bracket signals on siding exits are very interesting how they are placed.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
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  21. nberneck99

    nberneck99 Well-Known Member

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    Except that three step didn’t come around till the 90s with conrail...so just try not to get squished?
     
  22. germano.ciavone

    germano.ciavone New Member

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    Fantastic route, finally something "old school".. I´ve tried different settings .. my favorite is driving at night in the snowstorm, dang what a good realism.
    And the F7... I just love the wonderful 24RL brake valve!
    These days I've read dozens of comments from people who believe the automatic brake valve of the F7 it doesn't work well ... and that's because they haven't figured out how to use it. Maybe it should be explained in the tutorial.

    However this is a really nice one.. But I have just a couple of points for Dovetail:
    The first point is that it would be nice to set the ending of the scenario not directly when the train stops on the track, but somewhere outside.. so you can leave to the player the freedom to shut off the train and park it before getting the report screen.
    The second point is really very serious and in my opinion it compromises the gameplay! It is not possible to derail .. I´ve lost control of my heavy train and I went down through those mountains at of 75 mph like a NASCAR race car... REALLY UNREALISTIC!!!!!
    If I exceed the speed and know that nothing is happening, I lose the credibility in the simulation!If nothing happens, then I can do what I want anyway?! Please fix this because it is like drown in an inch of water..

    Keep on the nice work!
    All the best.
     
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  23. vogelm10

    vogelm10 Well-Known Member

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    Oh you can derail. Go to settings and turn it off! It defaults to being on to prevent it.
     
  24. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    All right, here's a really, really, really nitpicky complaint: the classification lights on the F7. There's actually no need for them here at all, since CRR had been using centralized signal control for years. But on engines which had them installed, they had white, green and red aspects, not just On/Off.
     
  25. Blu

    Blu Member

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    Hey Vern, with regards your last paragraph regards the comings and goings at the tipples. I get you But from what I understand of the region, when you turn up at the remote tipplers the bunkers are already loaded to dump in the train. And the big ones connected by conveyor to the mine would have minimal staff compared to UK operations in the BR/NCB days. I will stand corrected if im wrong.
     
  26. Blu

    Blu Member

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    Probs the cost of removing them wasn't worth it.
     
  27. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That's correct- until the late '80s. It was then that the FRA started seriously enforcing a rule that every piece of equipment that was mounted on a locomotive had to be in working order. And so, because keeping those long-useless lights in repair was expensive, RR started removing them and plating over the holes.
     
  28. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    for sure you can derail, got a phone call while messing around at Nora... released rather than setting the brakes... nice ride for a few seconds..
     
  29. vogelm10

    vogelm10 Well-Known Member

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    My cat loves this map. I have the map pulled up following a train moving along and he keeps trying to catch it!
     
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  30. NW 1218

    NW 1218 Member

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    I barely have time to live during the day, much less sit around and watch live streams of video games. If it got said in the live stream, cool. I'm glad it's being addressed.
     
  31. NW 1218

    NW 1218 Member

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    That's all fine and dandy...but the material is my own material. Like...when the Clinchfield 800 lead the Santa Train in 2017. I have a lot of high quality audio from that day, especially of the M5 they equipped the engine with. If it's your own material that you collected on your own, there's no copyright issues.
     
  32. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    It only becomes a copyright issue when you use it for commercial use.
     
  33. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    But can you prove it's your own material that you collected on your own? Without a paper trail, DTG doesn't dare use it.
     
  34. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    FURTHER OBSERVATIONS

    Two days in, and I am liking this bonanza of a route more and more. Take a bow, DTG. Well done. Jolly well done indeed.

    HOWEVER-

    It's not perfect, and there are two aspects which are especially maddening, that really detract from the enjoyment of the route. Neither is unique to Clinchfield, but given the nature of the gameplay they loom much larger here than in most.

    1) "Go via" instruction followed by incorrectly-set manual points.
    This one is infuriating, and its especially exasperating in that it isn't a bug or a modeling mistake, but simply poorly thought out gameplay design. The Go Via instruction blocks the travel path so you cannot see the route beyond it, and in turn that means once you pass it a mad dash in map mode trying to get the points set in front of your moving train (which you cannot control in map mode- dealing with Clinchfield's nasty grades requires near-constant control). And second, all too often, seeing the final stop point hove into view and realizing you're on the wrong track, because you missed a switch in the aforementioned mad dash.

    This simply can't stand. Either eliminate the (unnecessary) Go Via, or automatically reset the points to the correct path.

    2) Popping the PCS valve on coupling.
    Also plagues Sand Patch and Peninsula Corridor. Coupling up to a longish rake of cars often, and randomly, causes the PCS valve to open, meaning an interminable wait to reset it and an even longer wait for the brake pipe to recharge. It is an accidental Simugraph consequence of abstracting the coupling procedure, specifically the manual attachment of the air hoses. In real life, the gladhands don't permit this to happen, but in-game the rush to fill the rake's empty brake pipe sends the flow rate past the PCS threshold and, pop! Time to go make a sandwich. I can't suggest a corrective, but one is desperately needed- especially for a route that features as much shunting as this one.

    Any other complaints are fairly minor. One I have mentioned and probably will continue to do so (maybe I should program a bot for the stream chats.....). The F7's brake handle, like that on several locomotives, really, really needs a positive detent between the Service and Emergency positions. Two, no manual at all (and no instructions, anywhere, on how to set up banking/distributed power). Three, the SD40's dynamic brake control. This is an artifact left over from the Dash-2 version, which has variable DB control. And so so does the CRR version- except it shouldn't. Since the DB are controlled by the throttle, which is notched, the DB should only have 8 discrete settings.
     
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  35. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I had wondered how the throttle lever suddenly became continuous when switching to DBs :D
     
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  36. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Just theory: PCS open during coupling never happens to me in TSW. I don't remember anyway **. The wagons in this game get an automatic application when standing alone as TSW does not simulate the handling of anglecocks. Usually, it is 'initial reduction' (ekhm) or 10 PSI (in my opinion EDIT or even a full application - so the difference is so drastic). CRR, due to the slope, can have a bigger braking value (ask Matt?). There is a difference at the time of coupling. And we have no influence on the fact that the valves open by themselves. Too high airflow leads to PCS open. I have such a habit, the last meters before coupling I do initial reduction to reduce the pressure difference. For CRR I am using full service during (not after!) coupling. BR o7

    ** CRR, The Setup scenario - I failed. PCS open :D

    PS

    hell yeah \o/
    ...
    Additional observations:
    1. Looking out the window you can now look both ways 180 degrees (SPG doesn't have that, but maybe it was introduced earlier, before CRR, and I didn't notice).
    2. SD 40 can be used in SPG service mode!
    3. SD 40 seems to have slightly different physics from SD 40-2 (SPG), but is it really so - initial reduction = 10 PSI? Dash 8 and F7 are 'revised' (6 PSI). It's not a great loss, but still. There was room for improvement, there was an opportunity. Very very tinny little meh. Still love Her <3! Dante yard switching - oh man. So good!
    ......
    I also did not notice any serious bugs preventing the smooth gameplay, which are mentioned so much in various places on the Internet. I hope these poor people will manage somehow and they will be able to enjoy the game. It's not ironic. But are you sure? :D Some annoying minor bugs are DTG's fault. Others: SLOTH! :D
    .........
    CRR is a difficult DLC. I think people will eventually get used to it once the initial frustration is over. It's worth it!
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
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  37. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    OK, this is inexcusable. Much as I love this route overall, now I'm angry

    Scenario Fremont Ascent. 700 yards from the end, after an hour of driving, THERE IS A MANUAL SWITCH SET INCORRECTLY, which drives you into a parked rake with instant derailment! NO. Bloody. WAY. This is unacceptable. (I should add that both the objective and the cars are around a bend, so you can't see either until it's too late to stop, even at full emergency).

    You simply CANNOT expect a player to anticipate the need to manually set points at the end of an hourlong drive! (Nor in RL would that switch be set incorrectly; the mine staff would have made sure of that. It's not like an engineer is going to stop a loaded coal train on a 1.6% incline so he can get out and move a switch!)
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
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  38. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    It's very good, you wrote about it because I'm going there soon! /o\
    PS 3x PCS open in The Setup scenario :| Anyway - epic!
    ...
    Although it is probably only decorative... :D
    ozdoba.png
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
  39. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Is there a users' manual yet? If so, please provide a link. Thanks!
     
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  40. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    One reason why a manual is a must!!!
     
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  41. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Did you check the 2D map which presumably shows the path to the objective? I frequently look to make sure all the switches are set correctly. Sorry, but that's a given in any service/scenario. If you didn't check the switches, anything goes wrong, it's on you, as the player.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
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  42. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    I'm really enjoying this route, even though I've only completed the tutorials and started driving one of the scenarios so far. Among many other features, I appreciate that all of the F7's cab windows can be opened; surprisingly, however, the only views available while in the driver's chair are the facing front and a close-up view of some of the controls. Is there a way to lean out of the window?
     
  43. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Use arrows. Perhaps You tried in a tunnel when it is impossible and act the way you described.
     
  44. vogelm10

    vogelm10 Well-Known Member

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    Working on it....yet I noticed a glaring issue last night on my rounds.

    So when the train comes to switch at Allen Siding it should get a restricting signal to go to diverging line, a restricting signal to back into the siding, the conditional stop board to leave siding, then restricting again to crossover to the main track, etc.

    Instead it gave an approach signal to take the siding, approach to back up the yard, conditional stop board, then it ran a red signal to crossover, then another approach.

    So the entire reason a diverging line has the ability to show a restricting aspect is so you can ride on sight when switching. I'll try again to catch it.
     
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  45. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I disagree. Changing switches from a moving train is not on. Especially since it is completely unrealistic.
     
  46. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    You tried to do it while some part of the train was in a tunnel. In that case, just like the external cameras, leaning out the window is disabled. When completely tunnel-free, you can hang your head out and loll your tongue in the wind all you like.

    Supposedly this is going to be fixed.
     
  47. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Mind you, Clinchfield's signals were supposedly weird and unlike any other railroad's. So what you take to be an "approach" may actually be a "restricting."
     
  48. vogelm10

    vogelm10 Well-Known Member

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    Nope. Clinchfield signals are actually pretty straight forward. A yellow on the main head above red on the bottom is always an approach. The reason the entrances of sidings have the second head below the main one is solely to show a restricting aspect. And the dwarf signal at that spot has 4 lights instead of 3, also to show restricting. I actually should have this made by tonight or tomorrow (also have all my UK and German signals ready to make guides for too), but this line gets priority since we all seem to be confused on it.
     
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  49. Blackwolf

    Blackwolf Member

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    Off course you can expect that. As a train crew one of your task is to check your path both automatic and manual points.
    Why i Said that, because I have working in the railroad for 20 years. Both Conductor and shunting cars.
     
  50. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Well, changing switches on a map is, in itself, totally unrealistic, but we all do it, just like we fly around peeking into the cabs of MU and DPU locos or couple/uncouple rolling stock. Maybe you're a purist and walk to all this stuff. Anyway, I usually set the switches when stationary, before advancing towards the next objective. I haven't played this scenario/service. Isn't there a place to stop the train before this particular maneuver? If not, I would have no qualms about changing or checking switches while on the move. It takes just a few seconds. I call it part of the game. Not trying to be argumentative, just my take.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
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