Train Sim World 2: Hamburg – Lübeck - Creating Services

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Apr 23, 2021.

  1. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Producer Staff Member

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    Hamburg_Lubeck_Article_Images_1920x1080 (3).jpg
    Read the article here.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
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  2. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    Low dosto doors but its fine most important is that the route works :)
     
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  3. WonterRail

    WonterRail Well-Known Member

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    Particularly interested in this section:

    So the question I want to ask from this is, what are those 50 AI services?
     
  4. Joethefish

    Joethefish Staff Member

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    AI only moves that take the trains into and out of portals. They'd become playable at their first stop (most of which being Hamburg Hbf).
     
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  5. helderbrincolas

    helderbrincolas Well-Known Member

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    Loving the reused Dostos and reused freight vagons! It really makes this route different and unique for the players!
     
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  6. Trainiac

    Trainiac Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully, we’ll see those updated Dostos that Sam talked about soon
     
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  7. Trainiac

    Trainiac Well-Known Member

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    Didn't Sam say they updated the Dostos? maybe this article was made before they received feedback
     
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  8. mrcharliemiggins2.0

    mrcharliemiggins2.0 Well-Known Member

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    'we work together to deliver the best product we can.'
    If you were to create the best product possible, you would use the correct Dostos!
     
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  9. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    No. The only thing Sam said was that DTG heard our feedback loud and clear. He did not say anything about new DoStos.
     
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  10. Joethefish

    Joethefish Staff Member

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    Try using the whole quote.

    "All of us on the gameplay team want to do a good job, and we work together to deliver the best product we can."
     
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  11. helderbrincolas

    helderbrincolas Well-Known Member

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    The Dostos will be launched as shown in the photos. He gave that answer just to satisfy and say that he gave an answer on the subject, simple.
     
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  12. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    Low dosto doors? If they where much lower they be under the train.
     
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  13. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    Still has the Low-Entry Dostos I see, what a ridiculous mistake.
     
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  14. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    He didn't talk about them, he merely mentioned that our feedback has been passed on. He failed to mention that it was ignored beyond that point, but that's usual for DTG. We will get the wrong Dostos, and that's that.
     
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  15. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    It's not really the gameplay teams fault, they aren't high enough in the chain to make those decisions. Someone, somewhere, decided that the MSB Dostos were good enough and no-one else had any input.
    I think something like "[...] we work together to deliver the best product we can with the instructions we're given." would be more appropriate.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
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  16. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Not a suprise that the high dostos aren´t there. Maybe they should have asked him, why there are no high floor dostos. They ask devs somewhat easy questions but hey that is dtg for ya
     
  17. Dragonic

    Dragonic New Member

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    Well sadly in earlier Screenshots the Bridge that goes to the South for the S-Bahn in the direction of Hammerbrook and Harburg is incorrect. This bridge is pretty iconic. And it is sad to see that you didn't build it like the Real one. Also I really hope that you start expanding into longer routes. Not 50 km streches
     
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  18. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Lol I can feel the sarcasm
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
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  19. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    If they make longer routes we'll see a repeat of SEHS, barren areas and low quality Route Building.
     
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  20. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    ^This. Sam said he relayed the information and that it has been heard by those that make the decisions. He did not promise any change.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
  21. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Had he said that the feedback would not have been listened, that probably would cause a uproar with some. He also didn´t promise any changes would be made either so it´s really not suprising that no changes were made
     
  22. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    Of course it would've caused uproar, which is why he didn't say it. But I'm pretty confident that's what happened.
     
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  23. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I think Clinchfield would like to have a word with you lol. To be fair clinchfield had been on the roadmap since day 1
     
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  24. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Looks good. Can't wait. REDemption is coming \o/
     
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  25. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    Fair point, it's just a massive hit and miss with DTG.
     
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  26. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Yeh they really struggle with consistency. One day you´ll get a good route like HMA and then next you´ll get a crap hs1 section on sehs. Consistency needs improvements
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
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  27. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    I see there are two 112 791s out there, interesting
    [​IMG]
     
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  28. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Could be the case
     
  29. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Wrong Dostos and wrong Light on the 112 :mad:
    So we can see it’s not worked by Maik Goltz who Made the 101 absolute Perfect.

    Also there still wrong Loco numbers from the 143 on the 112 TrainSim-Matt DTG Natster so Lets reworked all the wrong stuff to make it like real life.
    Again that’s the Loco numbers 112 101–190
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
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  30. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    Are the dosto doors that some of you are referring to the ones that are directly above the passenger cars bogies,instead of where they currently are on the lower inside frame area.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
  31. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Maik is not responsible for 3D modeling in 101 or maybe even nowhere.
    You make theories unnecessarily.

    With this reflector of the wrong diameter, it will probably be completely unplayable - true.
     
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  32. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Nice choice of picture for this thread. DTG saying loud and clear “This is the Dosto you are getting, deal with it.” I like that.

    It’s not a mistake, it’s not a bug, it’s not broken. It’s the Dosto model they have. There’s no point still going on about it. Some things you just need to evaluate whether you are letting such trivial matters dictate your state of happiness and wellbeing.

    A story to warm the cockle of your heart...

    One morning a mother saw her son was crying and when she asked him what was wrong the son replied he was very upset because the doors on his toy train were in the wrong place. After drying his tears for him, she explained that they could have a chat about it when he got home from school later that day, and speaking of school he should really be getting on his way now because it wouldn’t set a good example to the children if the headmaster was late.
     
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  33. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Train Simulator used the Right Dostos for Hamburg, and even on Dresden to Riesa they used the correct livery without the Licensing names, with are unique to the Region Dresden.
     
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  34. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    I noticed that too. Twins.
     
  35. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    The wrong Dostos is inexcusable in my opinion. Whoever made that decision made the wrong one, it beggars belief really.
     
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  36. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    If the dosto doors are normal bogie mounted instead of frame mounted,on this route wouldn't all the station platforms have to be incorrectly modeled to compensate for the difference in height?
     
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  37. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    Yes, those would be the correct Dostos for this route. The ones they included are wrong.
     
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  38. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    I think the same, they already have a route where most of the stock can be reused, and then when the question "Should we at least make the correct Dostos?" popped up they went "Let's just reuse them, that's fine".
     
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  39. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    For all of you complaining about the dostos:

    This route is obviously not aimed at the hardcore German railfans, it’s aimed at those who don’t care about having the headlight 0.002mm thicker than irl and those who don’t know the different variations of German rail vehicles and where they prototypically run on, like me. I didn’t know that those dostos were the wrong ones, and I still don’t care, and there will be more people that will relate. I just want a route to have fun driving German freight trains and a boxy German loco to take a break from ICE and S bahn trains since I don’t own MSB, RSN, or RRO. It’s simple, if you can’t stand having the wrong dostos or a slightly thicker headlight on the 112, or if you simply don’t like the route, Don’t. Buy. It.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
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  40. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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  41. Richard CZE

    Richard CZE Well-Known Member

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    Platform height will not be a problem. I saw in the video how both types of Dostos wagons are included in the set.
     
  42. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Germans numbering 112s according to DTG: 112 391, 491,... 791... 791 again!

    Seriously if the route releases with 112 having this numbering, it will be truly embarrassing. Also, it now seems 101 will be the ONLY layer for this route... which would seriously hinder this route. I am a big fan of German trains and at this point seeing the problems and lack of content... I might go for SEHS during the next sale instead.

    Once again though let's raise some positives:
    -112s have PIS now (at least 491 and 791 twins :D)
    -MRCE Taurus looks pretty good
     
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  43. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    I envy you, you can just enjoy a route without being irritated about the stock being wrong. I on the other hand can't, and there are many others who can't either. And if they can't spend the time to make proper stock, then they shouldn't be allowed to call it a "super authentic" simulator.
     
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  44. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    No, Platform Height will be ok, Germany only has Low-Entry Dosto Cab-Cars anyway. It'll still be wrong which ruins the immersion for a number of people.
     
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  45. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    HERESY!!! :) RSN is the home for the most boxed loco ever made - the holy 155 \o/
     
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  46. SLBM

    SLBM Active Member

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    I'd say the decision is absolutely understandable and right one for DTG. I have a wee bit of a problem understanding why it creates such a lack of understanding within the community.

    I think most of the people will agree that the TSW2 models are really well made. They might be inaccurate here and there, but they are technically well made. They are extremely detailed, to the level, where the switchboards inside coaches will have all their labels (DB IC coaches being a very good example), there are warning stickers, paint scratches, seat fabric patterns and whatnot. They are beautiful to watch. It's a completely different league than old TS1 models. But that accuracy comes at a cost. Making such a model takes time and resources a.k.a. human labour. Making one coach for TSW surely takes way more time and effort than making one for TS1, where they only really had to worry about external looks, and interior was extremely rudimentary. This means, that a decision to make a new piece of rolling stock is surely not one taken lightly by project managers, and it's much more difficult to make "a bit different versions" than it was in the old sim.

    Then we go to the fundamental issue. DTG is a company. It's a for-profit organisation, and as every organisation of that kind must think in terms of revenues. All these talented people who deliver us these products, work not only for passion, but also to earn some money in return, for themselves, and for the company (and they want to keep that company running too). And in every company it is management's job to ensure that staff is doing something useful for the company.

    And here we come to the final consideration. There is a modelling team. They might make new Dostos. They might, on the other hand, do some completely different piece of rolling stock absolutely required for a new route, which will be sold separately, and thanks to that be ready sooner and bring revenue. Of course you might say that "hey, but that makes the Hamburg route less attractive". But does it really? Most importantly: how much more sales would the Hamburg-Luebeck route get from getting the Dosto model right? 5%? 3%? After all, they do not affect gameplay in any way. Yes, immersion is a bit lower, and it is just a wee bit less realistic, requires minor suspension of disbelief. But then again, there are many more things which do require the very same thing. Even with correct Dostos we would be missing most of the rolling stock which actually can be encountered at Hamburg Hbf, which is always going to be very empty compared to the real thing. And it's never going to be a perfect representation. Just having a more proper coach model would not change that very much, while it would require considerable investment of time and effort on DTG side without any promise of significant extra revenues.

    All in all, this decision to reuse old model seems extremely rational, and I'd be very surprised to see them doing another model. It's a simple cost of having these models so detailed.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2021
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  47. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't go for SEHS personally, route building is atrocious in some areas and the 395 isn't great either.
     
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  48. Cael

    Cael Well-Known Member

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    Creating Services. The title got me really interested.
    Unfortunately, I don't get the impression that Hamburg - Lübeck differs from the trend of static timetable without many special services, i.e. "RB1 leaves every hour at XX:34" and "Westbound freight leaves every two hours at XX:15" pattern.

    I recently went back to Ruhr Sieg Nord and realized how many special services there are. There are the power move services, some freight trains have intermediate stops with some shunting (Boele, Plettenberg), etc. with some freight wagons parked on the sidings. Even more with the 363 content added in.
    Main Spessart Bahn has a great variety of content as well, but routes since then are usually services operating in the same pattern every day with freight trains running solely A to B.

    Will Hamburg to Lübeck timetable contain some unusual services such as light loco runs, etc., given this time the freight locomotive is part of the addon and not an added layer? Is there a possibility of more varied timetables in future routes?
     
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  49. Aran

    Aran Well-Known Member

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    Then explain to me, if you will, how they can make 3 Locos and a set of Wagons for Sand Patch Grade, 1 Multiple Unit ,2 Locos and a set of Wagons and Coaches for each Loco, a Multiple Unit for RT but can't make a single new piece of stock for HBL? Every route up until now had something new, this one does not, the 112 is mostly reused, so is the 182. And the Dostos are literally just copied form MSB. They can evidently make a range of Rolling Stock for a new route, why now for this one?
     
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  50. SLBM

    SLBM Active Member

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    I wonder if those AI services mean we will get some extra trains departing straight from, let's say, Hamburg Hbf towards a nearby portal, just for the sake of making it less empty and show traffic in other directions. That's a feature I like about the East Coastway very much, it's minor, but makes it easier to imagine you are somewhere within a rail *network* and not just on an isolated line.
     
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