Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Apr 15, 2021.
Yeah. I actually like the new livery on the Taurus. That's it.
They had missed the BR 648 Lint like on TS
I don't think the comparison of 143 and 112 in terms of being "the same" is that fair, considering 112 gets higher speeds, at least looks slightly different and has a different brake. Like that is more different than 146 and 185 are to each other and there everyone is fine with it. And they came within the same route. Or like british classes 377 and 375.
Sure if you don't like it that is alright, but I see enough difference in it to call it a new locomotive.
There is a huge gap in detailing (particularly the cab) between new and old DLCs
Compare those to the cab of the BR101
A similar comparison can be made between the Class 377 and 465.
For me, the difference is huge, and I would expect that the new 182 and the 112 to be more similar to the 101 than their older twins... (at least the 112)
The train exterior models might be similar but the cab details and functionality will be the most important factor.
Well, it seems to follow some kind of pattern, like GWE with unfinished OHLE, MSB with the old ramp, right now Hamburg-Bad Oldesloe is rebuild/converted to a new S-Bahn-route, so, in about some months later to the release-date, the route will look completely different
They had missed the RE4 to Stettin with the BR 623 Lint (this post may have some kind of sarcasm)
This route goes from Hamburg to Lübeck, there is no RB86 on this route. DTG missed nothing in this case.
but it’s available on Hamburg-Lübeck as Dlc in Train Simulator also.
So it’s missing like the 218 Loco and the S-Bahn, even the High Entry Dostos are in TS.
Well, at this same stage the preview shots of Clinchfield showed an SD40 that still had SD40-2 handrails and other details, and they were fixed by the release.
TSW routes are never going to come with as many locos as those in TS. It's way cheaper and less time-consuming to develop locomotives and trainsets for TS classic. To the best of my knowledge, no TSW route has ever come with more than three, and those are the oldest ones. Two are more usual. Although I must say, HBL coming with what amounts to 2 reskins is pretty skimpy.
To not be completely negative I do have to admit - Hamburg Hbf does look like Hamburg Hbf, job well done there, from the screenshot it seems to have the right feeling to it - a lot of ads, glassed shops, semi-dark track section. I know the station well and I instantly got its vibe from the screenshots. The absence of hundreds of people is more of a core thing.
That being said... one great station does not have the power to save this if it releases in the way it is presented here.
-weirdly made 112 with a wrong-sized headlight and non-existent number (hopefully only one)
-no new freight car (any car for that matter)
-basically just reskinned 182 without PIS
The content is really pushing the borders of what is acceptable in the realms of rolling stock. This route better be a masterpiece of layers and variety, because that is probably the last thing able to save it now.
I agree on that front. I also know Hamburg Hbf quite well as I‘ve been there a lot over the years and it does look good from the screenshots thus far.
To be honest, the scenery on this route is definitely not the most picturesque (with a few exceptions) and we all know the problems with the rolling stock. But one aspect that makes the route more interesting is the fact that in irl there are 4 points where trains from Hamburg turn around and go back into the city again (Ahrensburg, Bargteheide, Bad Oldesloe and Lübeck). This creates a more diverse set of services to play with and also causes the route to be quite busy between Hamburg and Ahrensburg. In the Hamburg area which has stations quite closely packed together it almost creates an S-Bahn like feeling. So if the services in game are going to be based on the irl ones, we could expect a timetable that is quite different to what we usually get (in my opinion at least)
The million dollar question: If DTG was able to make a new version of the SD40 for CRR then why can’t they make slightly different Dostos?
Hopefully we will get the first stream soon to see what they did with the actual route itself.
Who knows, maybe we will even get a new surprise feature like Ebula screens with it. I am not betting on it but somehow I have a feeling that there might be more to this release.
Because under CRR was working better team, and under HHL was working worstest team -_0
...made a little comparison between the BR112 seen in the screenshots and in real life. First of all very well built, although it is actually a slightly modified BR143. As others have already noticed, the top light is a bit too beefy, the lamp frame just needs to be made a little narrower. Otherwise it looks very good. The train destination indicator of the BR112 will certainly still work.
On the other hand Hamburg Hbf looks very convincing, I was there some years ago and everything fits. For Germans the billboards contain some funny sayings, but also look almost like the real ones.
The "Dauerlutscher" killed me
Let's lighten up the mood here a little.
I really hope this does not affect future German routes and HBL was just built this way by a team who didn’t get enough sleep last night
I always imagine the community managers (Sam earlier, now JD and Nathalie) going to the responsible teams, just asking the simple questions "on the forums there is alot going on about a missing cab car/wrong catenary/wrong dosto wagons/missing HS fences/no new rolling stock for diesel legends pack, is that true?“
"yes we chose not to bother with that for this release."
Followed by awkward stares around to look for that person who made the decision back then
They all have neurosis there because of us
PS Get out of bed every morning knowing that something has already gone wrong, but I don't know about it yet...
Well if high dostos are added, then maybe they can be layered into older routes
Because copy/pasting is not realistic. Sure they may be similar but that doesn´t mean they are exactly the same. When dtg says they make ¨Authentically replicated Locos and Routes" then that´s the expectation some have.
DTG is such are lazy Company and want make only Profit, if they don’t fixed this to make the right train, they lost the trust from us
Well, not knowing too much about German railways ( I'm afraid I don't know one double deck car from another), I will judge this route on modeling and gameplay. The fact that it is a mixture of passenger and freight traffic is a plus. If I think it's fun and interesting to drive, I'll be tempted. I won't be quibbling about the size of the headlight.
The BR112 and 143 are not tremendously different, a bit like the SD-40 and SD40-2 they have a common origin, in fact the BR112 is a faster BR143.
Following German reunification, the rail routes to Berlin were rebuilt with a maximum speed of more than 120 km/h (75 mph). The Deutsche Reichsbahn had no locomotives capable of this speed so it had to acquire new faster locomotives. However, the Class 212 locomotives had originally been designed with a maximum speed of 160 km/h (99 mph). After four prototype locomotives (numbered 212 002 to 212 005, the number 212 001 had originally been used for 143 001 and was not reused) a series of 35 locomotives (212 006 to 212 040) was delivered.
The copy pasting is fine, if they modify the details that need to be modified, like the headlights, and I am confident, that like the SD40 handrail the headlight and the numbering will be fixed for release. And hopeful that the cab will be reworked and will be better than the 143's.
The way they get to the end result is up to them, whether it is copy/pasting or putting a H0 model of a 112 in a 3d scanner, what matters is the end result.
A very good example of how to not copy-paste: SD 40-2 has an improper initial reduction value (10 PSI). There was a chance to improve, but SD 40 is broken too (in this matter). BR 143 (preserved one) isn't a good loco model at all. Let's hope, 112 is MUCH better
The fact that DTG are staying quiet about this shows that nothing will be done to resolve this issue. Not that it was going to be resolved in the first place, mind you.
This is the issue with them showcasing DLC when it is too late to change anything.
Maybe they could showcase dlc´s early in development so the community could give feedback so that it can be improved over time
It´s not surprising that they haven´t responded. But hey if people don´t like what they see, don´t get it.
That's the point, the issue is not the copy/paste itself, but what matters is how well it's done
I wonder, will there be any restrictions for consoles? I do not want DLC HMA to be repeated without layers.
Wow I'm really shocked no one from DTG has commented about the Dostos issue since it seems to be a pretty hot topic.
What has happened they used to comment on issues that seem to get traction on the forums. But this time nothing but crickets.
I hope this isn't a sign they are going back to their old ways. Even in the streams they seem to ignore any tough questions nowadays too.
It's not going to affect whether I buy the route as I know I am. Low floors won't be an immersion breaker me. I just think its odd not to hear a reply when there have been so many asking. Like they gave an answer to BR 101 not having a cab car why not answer this?
I am afraid it is unlikely console will get layers for this dlc
What answer could they possibly give?
The facts are pretty clear, there isn't really anything to be said. A few people won't buy the route because of it, but there is also a sizable group who buy everything no matter what. It's pretty clear which group is the target market for DTG.
Whilst you are correct , dtg don’t really have a target audience . They let players buy whichever dlc they like , the routes and locos that you want to play
My point is that DTG has obviously done the math and determined that its more profitable to reuse the old Dosto and lose maybe 2% of their sales, than to spend the hours modelling the appropriate Dosto and gain an additional 2% in sales.
It's not that they don't know it's wrong, it's that they just don't care, because even most of the frequent complainers on this forum buy the route on launch day anyway.
Go through the post launch threads related to HBL and I guarantee that you'll see most of the people who said that they wouldn't buy the route, giving their feedback and posting their screenshots, etc.
To be fair, they rarely gave elaborated answers to these things on the forums, but they usually always got to it on either a preview or roadmap stream.
Not that I expect rolling stock to change shortly before release, or after release for that matter
It's true in some ways, but I prefer to speak for myself and I do still have trust in them. Maybe a bit scattered, but it's there.
Pray tell... who is “US” .....
I personally haven't lost trust at all either. I've been quite happy with most that is put out.
I myself have not lost trust in DTG, for the most part I have been satisfied with what we have so far. It can only get better from here.
But it’s for sure, the Performance is the worst since 4 years like low Draw Distance and Objekt loading behind the Train
It's a shame that there's no layer coming for BR101 for HBL, although it fits perfectly for this route.
In my opinion, all of this You mentioned is better. TSW 2020 was unplayable for me (low-end laptop). TSW 2 is a step forward. BR o7
Does this route also add livery designer compatibility for DB BR 182 and MSB dostos?
I hope not. In HMA it was because there are almost (I think) 300 SBahn services and, according to Matt, over 3000 signals in the Munich area alone and in HHL there are only RE and Fright services, as far as we know
when did they say that?
I have similar (kosti's) concerns - there is probably no 101 on promo pictures for HHL, and the ones in the 101 article only show HRR.
But for sure? Some '101 on HHL' picture?
If promotional pics with layers are published, it will most likely not be the first pics. Let's wait until we get more information, that was just the promo pictures from the Railfest
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