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Train Sim World 2 - Mass Mixed Traffic

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Apr 29, 2021.

  1. Cael

    Cael Well-Known Member

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    At this point, it's possible they are trying to determine whether the 25/30 price is enough or if they could raise it... After all, the diesel legends pack is 18€, DB BR 101 was initially released with 30€ price tag and then dropped down to the regular price...

    The route itself looks very nice, the route building team has done a great job on this one.
    But the rolling stock stands out as an odd choice, as was already discussed to death here, with reused assets, small tweaks, bugs, sound issues, uninspired freight services (bonus layer for 363 would help)

    Everyone should vote with their wallets - is this enough for you?
     
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  2. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Nothing will stop me from buying, but I would like to pay as little as possible :D
     
  3. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I will be paying as little as possible (in a sale further down the line). Mind you, that’s my plan for most DLC from now on because I’ve spent too much. My goal is to get as much content as possible for my monthly TSW budget. If routes look uninspiring and have little that’s new in them it makes it easier to leave them on the shelf for now. This route might get very dusty.
     
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  4. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    After purchasing, I will express my honest opinion. This can be hard to accept... by DTG. I hope not! :D

    PS The premiere is probably May 13 - I have a name day the day before. Normally, I probably wouldn't be so wasteful.
    I have already chosen such a gift for myself. There is no turning back!
     
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  5. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    I do it the same right now, SEHS, HMA and IOW were the last routes I purchased. If I don't get excited enough I will just pass them and pick them up at a decent discount. Many of us probably already have a good library of routes, so there is most likely always something that you want to play on.
    And the better if you can lateron pick up a route at around half the price, which you are interested in experiencing, but not enough to pay full price. Chances are even that there will be a fair amount of fixes or even additional content applied while you wait for the discount, and you really don't miss out on anything in that time.
     
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  6. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    :) Napoleon?

    There will likely be a 10% launch discount for those of us on PC. I'm impressed by the scenery, modeling and potential gameplay of the route, so I will also buy it on release. The problem with waiting for a sale is that new routes do not go on sale for many months after release and I don't have the patience to wait. E.g. I'm still waiting for the LGV route to go on sale. It's the only one I don't have.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2021
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  7. vogelm10

    vogelm10 Well-Known Member

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    Hahaha fixes......that makes me chuckle!
     
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  8. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    Chuckle as much as you want, by the time Arosa is at a 50% discount the chances are good that not only the AI trains dont bug, you don't get rando mderailments anymore and that yo ucan actually run to the timetable. They also explored the possibility of adding something with freight to it. Anyway, by the time I pick Arosa up at half the price point of the lot that bought into it at launch, my experience with it will be way better.
     
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  9. vogelm10

    vogelm10 Well-Known Member

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    Lol discounts don't exist for xbox save for a tiny one on launch day to save maybe 10%. And I can guarantee they won't fix things because we still are dealing with unplayable dlc from the og listings like LIRR, Oakville Sub, etc
     
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  10. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Or it could simply mean that he is not familiar with the standard answer to that question: " the usual price ". It wouldn't be a complete surprise to me if there were a price increase. It's somewhat overdue. But we should remember that DTG have said that any price increase will not affect the quality of the final product.

    I found that stream to be a little odd in general, or perhaps " flat" would be a better word to describe it. And, like the Railfan Fest stream a few weeks ago, a bit too PR-ish. But that's just me.
     
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  11. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    If I ever end up buying this route, it’ll most likely be in a sale when it is less than $15, because this route deserves no more than that, which probably might not happen for a whole year.
     
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  12. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    It's not just you :) Especially with the PR part...
     
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  13. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    JD is the wrong person for this Streams
    Come back to us DTG Protagonist :love:

    Matt lost some trust from the Community about his clarification about the wrong Dostos, he is the Senior Producer.
     
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  14. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Sam at least conveys the impression that he is there to address our concerns, sometimes even to relay them back to management. JD creates the impression he is just there to sell us.
     
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  15. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    So your saying we will still get the mostly same recycled and broken dlc we almost alway get plus we have to pay extra for it?I'm sorry but the frist words that pop into my mind over this thought,are words i can't bring myself to type here.(But i'm sure some of you can guess a few for yourself).
     
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  16. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    You got it a bit wrong. The more point is that the increase does not make sense, as DTG admits.

    I really want to believe it. While there is a theoretical variant, the one you mention - worse for more. It makes sense... probably... not...

    Or... :(
     
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  17. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    I got it 50% off in the last DOVETAIL STORE madness sale like 4 weeks ago
     
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  18. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    "some of Germany’s most iconic electric locomotives"

    Referring to the BR112? I know, the marketing. But this sounds really hilarious :D :D :D :D :D
     
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  19. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe they are iconic because they are very common? A bit like the E.464 here, you can see one whenever you are next to a station or a rail line, not too sure about how common the 112 is in Germany.

    Still a bit of a strange wording.
     
  20. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    Quite possibly
     
  21. Jo_Kim

    Jo_Kim Well-Known Member

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    Why do I feel like DTG is trying to fool us? Oh yeah, I know: Not doing anything for details or diversity but then talking massively about the importance of these things in a video:


    As I've commented under this video, this is my opinion:
    "DTG if you're talking about the importance of diversity and small details it might be useful if you would not only talk about these things but would actually do it. The upcoming Hamburg-Lübeck (HBL) route is just a mess, regarding the rolling stock. The Dostos are wrong because "it would be too much work and they wouldn't look different from the outside" whilst you can just take a picture of both versions and you would see a clear difference, the BR 112.1 is mostly copied from the BR 143 and the individual details that make the 112 special are then wrong (third headlight, brake lever) and the BR 182 has just a display moved. If diversity and details are really that important to you why is HBL recycle-o-mania. The community is pissed, the forums are burning and you're telling me that the smallest details matter. Sorry but I'm feeling like you're trying to fool me. In my opinion: Delay HBL (you haven't given us a release date so that shouldn't be much of a problem) and give us at least one new coach, waggon or loco. Otherwise, HBL will be a major flop which would be a pity especially for the route artist, because it seems that they did an amazing on this route."
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
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  22. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    I also do not digest this form of marketing \o/

     
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  23. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    It is the route that is deliberately wrong. They should have put the other direction of Hamburg, the main line going south in the direction of Luneburg, Celle, Hanover, Berlin. This route reminds me so much of the Oakville-Hamilton, wrong because since the project it excluded stops for passenger traffic. And in fact she was born and immediately died. Unfinished. There are dozens of locomotives that could dozens of different trains that, even in the future, they could have added along the Hamburg-Hanover. Haburg-Lubeck will end up very similar to "Oh Canada!". The E464? Personally I find it horrendous. One of the ugliest Italian locomotives (e so quello che dico). Here, the BR143/112 is like the E464, anonymous.


    Just to get an idea of how many German routes and locos they could have caught:
    https://store.steampowered.com/dlc/24010/Train_Simulator_2021/list/43439/

    Hamburg-Hanover pack: https://store.steampowered.com/bundle/3601/TS__Hamburg_Hanover_Collection/
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
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  24. Paulo_1997

    Paulo_1997 Active Member

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    You do know that this was a mistake?
     
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  25. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    Let's take the CRR vs HHL
    1st for CRR dtg had time to...
    Build the F7A(New)
    Build the F7B(New)
    Build the Caboose(New)
    Build or Rebuild a older F40(Loco)(At the very least New to Semi New)
    Build a new boxcar(New)
    Build a new refeer car(New)
    Plus build a longer route with alot of branch lines on top of all the new trains for the CRR.
    But for HHR
    Dtg didn't have any time at all to build or rebuild even a single new train of any kind for it.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
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  26. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    If the price is lower than usual I'll be happy to buy it, this way it would feel like buying the route but not the rolling stock and could be a cool opportunity to bypass Rapid Transit to get the 182 for people that don't own it yet.

    IoW got a small price reduction so it wouldn't be unprecedented, however I doubt that will be the case.
     
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  27. vogelm10

    vogelm10 Well-Known Member

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    Well hopefully they get the hint that we are getting very tired of the over priced subpar products being recycled here. Have we had anything that wasn't a remake? I'm thinking bakerloo line and maybe Cologne?

    Here is an idea, package the rolling stock in one bundle and routes in another. That way you can buy the rolling stock once and not keep paying for routes with repeating versions of the same thing.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
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  28. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Eat Snickers, vogelm10 :) It is not that bad!
     
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  29. vogelm10

    vogelm10 Well-Known Member

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    It's actually pretty awful when you have a game that has been around for years and still we have broken content from day one. Just saying the excuses are wearing thin.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
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  30. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    This worries me and is one of DTG's biggest weaknesses IMO. I'm sure budget/feasibility is a big factor, but they make some very strange choices with start/end points. Hamilton, like you said, and my personal annoyance NEC New York- why did they put Penn Station in the middle of the route considering the short overall lenghth??

    Mysterious!
     
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  31. bobbobberdd

    bobbobberdd Well-Known Member

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    I'm really curious where this all leads to. DTG is definitely used to negative comments when it comes to new publications. But this is a whole new level.
     
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  32. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    Well people here love new trains but if all you have to offer them is recycled locos and wagons and the incorrect coaches,plus not a single new train to discuss and talk about you shouldn't be surprised,That negativity what you will get.
     
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  33. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    With regards to stock being reused, I don’t think the issue is that we’re seeing duplicate stock, obviously we are going to, the question is should we really be seeing so much of it so early on? I don’t think we should.

    People are discussing the prices of content more and more, weather it is paying too much or wanting to pay more, but personally I think the days of more than 1 new train are long gone, now the price of a route with 2 new trains is £24.99, then a later £11.49 for unit #2.

    HBL takes this a step further though, offering no new stock, and the icing on that cake is that such little work has been done to even make appropriate changes to existing models for the DLC.
     
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  34. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    DTG has seen significant negativity before, but that doesn’t seem to make them want to change their approach. The community must be heard. Our feedback has to mean something to someone.
     
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  35. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    The reuse of existing rolling stock or locos or even a coach for this route wouldn't be a big deal is there was something new along with them.
     
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  36. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Why DTG give us not the ICE TD for this route as new Train?
    Dovetail made this train for Train Simulator for the same Route.
     
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  37. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I think that's the key point. With HMA nobody really objected to recycling the SKA ICE3 with a green stripe, because the route did include the new 423.
     
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  38. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    And importantly, the DB BR 423 is an excellent-produced piece of kit that offered a newer, more challenging driving experience (more difficult to control, great sounds, S-Bahn LZB) when compared to previous German EMUs. Contrast that to the DB BR 112 which seems to have done nothing to improve the quality of the DR Class 243 driving experience save for LZB integration.

    Cheers
     
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  39. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    The only down side for HKA was that it was next relased german route after SKA so 2 ICE trains on top of each other was probably not the best idea,in reality dtg should have released this route after having another german route in between them.
     
  40. Cyklisten

    Cyklisten Active Member

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    Reading all the post I'm thinking... They could at least give us an Eanos or something similar, it can't be that difficult. Dostos, well, I'm kind of bored by, these are everywhere. But they will stick to the "wrong" dostos anyway. So they could add some extras on the freight side instead. Just a little thing...
     
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  41. TheShotte

    TheShotte Well-Known Member

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    There's a trade off. Yes, you are right, that the vehicles were in fact developed for CRR, but that balanced out in the end because the actual route is 4 times more simple. What do you have, a handful of background houses (reused), a handful of mine tipples, 2 yards that both combined are smaller than Cumberland yard, and the rest is trees and mountains. Compare that to the amount of assets on the German route.
     
  42. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That's all well and good, but as said above, the route and the rolling stock are built by entirely different people. Simpler scenery doesn't mean you have freed up programmers to make locomotives.
     
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  43. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Two takes on what has been done for the locos in this route, one more accurate than the other. There are two new locos in this route, both of which have been made from existing locos with what looks like the minimum of work necessary, but it is important to make that distinction between completely reused, like the Dostos and freight wagons, and the things that are new but are not totally new, even if it is mainly a reskin. They have been rebuilt to some extent. The reason it is important is that while we would expect DTG to be factual and not stretch any truths, we need to do the same.

    The two quotes are only used as examples but lots of people have being saying the 112 is exactly the same as the 143 or things like ‘it’s just a 143’ and that just isn’t true. It’s the minimal amount of work leading to notable inaccuracies in the new models that is the issue here but they are new train models at the end if it.
     
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  44. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I would have been fine with reused stock as long as it's as good as the new releases (and I think we can all agree the 465, the 101 and the 363 for example have been better than older releases such as the 155 and the 182 - talking strictly about the actual quality of the train and cab).

    The biggest problem for me is that the BR182 is the exact same without the PIS box, not even a screen in place of the dials (like they did with the BR403 for HMA), and they didn't improve on the older models.

    That alone might have been a hard to swallow pill, but it becomes unacceptable when known bugs with the older models are not fixed for an upcoming release:
    • BR143 (112) bad sound mixing - almost completely silent if you drive with the window closed.
    • BR182 bad sound mixing, similar to the 143, and I suspect some very bad looping when cruising at higher speeds.
    • BR182 switched screens
    I already wrote it in an earlier reply, but this means the HHL trains are coming out in a worse state than their TSW2020 counterparts, as the aforementioned bugs are only present in the Pres.Co version of the TSW2020 content.

    And the Dostos, it was always not going to go down well with the german fans, but honestly if everything else was good I could have accepted it, same for the inaccurate 112 model (the front of the loco looks wrong).

    Every problem of this DLC would have been fine (for me) if it was just one (i.e. the 112 was as good as the 101 and the 182 received some bug fixes and improvements but we got the wrong dostos), but the combination of them is what kills this DLC.

    They saved time not doing the DoStos -> more time was spent making the 112 and 182 good, but this isn't the case obviously. So what did they do with the time saved not doing the DoStos? Cantcharth Circle? Oh wait... the stock for that is entering QA as part of the "Class 313 DLC" :D Maybe the UP AC4400CW? Oh wait that's already done. Maybe it's not Adam's team that lacks a train artist, but the whole company.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
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  45. TheShotte

    TheShotte Well-Known Member

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    That's a trend I have been noticing with TSW2 routes. The quality has been going down the hill, they're cutting more and more corners in the development. Plus like you said, we can accept certain quality cuts if it's just that one thing, but if the wagons/cars are cut, the locos are cut, and God knows what else, it just passes a certain "acceptability" threshold, and their attempt at saving money by cutting development costs will ultimately turn into a loss because not as many people will buy the route. It's simple, they make a great route, it doesn't matter if the person is a fan of this or that, a great route is a great route and it must be had, but if they make some mediocre route, only the true fanatics will make the purchase and the rest will refrain.
     
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  46. TheShotte

    TheShotte Well-Known Member

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    Furthermore, when TSW2 was just released, and there were 4 playable routes, when HMA came out, most people got it. Why? Not because it was an exceptional route, but because there was a lack of content. That lack of content is no more, as we now have the full preserved collection plus a few TSW2 routes released. We are no longer starving for content, and we can be picky. This is something they need to understand.
     
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  47. vogelm10

    vogelm10 Well-Known Member

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    And I keep going on about this, but seriously stop being so dang lazy with no improvements for designer or scenario planner. How long do we have to wait for these stupid preserved collection items to be able to paint? How long do we need to wait for them to allow access to yard tracks in scenario planner? How long do we need to wait until the og content is actually playable?

    I have figured out DTG's strategy I am pretty sure and it's as follows.

    Create a rushed route that is ported over from old games and recycled. Cut back the amount of playability on said route under the guise of freeing up more space for "better graphics". Release the unchecked and still buggy content as quickly as possible for as high a price as is obtainable. Then assume people will buy it and play it for a short amount of time assuming the bugs aren't so awful that the game is rendered unplayable from the start. Then instead of fixing the broken aspects make a post saying "hey guys we are working on it....but also look at the next line coming out!" And proceed to repeat the process assuming people keep buying the new lines and don't stay focused on the old broken ones.

    Listen to the people here! We want to give you our money but we surly won't if we keep being sent broken content. It's amazing that every time we have a new line announced we see these types of posts....if you would just listen to the customers maybe we wouldn't have so much disgust.
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2021
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  48. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

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    One other issue i have is that this route doesn't really offer anything new besides scenery, i have plenty of other german routes where i can get from a to b with the same dostos and the same freight cars. Gameplay wise it's a bit poor, but that's just imo, other people might enjoy some new scenery.
     
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  49. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Livery Designer compatibility for Pr Col routes is/was supposed to be done to each PC route as Adam's team turned to it. But, as you may have heard, Adam's artist was promoted to the core team, and only recently have they hired a replacement, so the routes they did in Feb-March didn't get that upgrade.

    Scenario Planner is not going to be improved until it's completely overhauled and SP 2.0 is released.
     
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  50. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    It's hard to say without knowing what they are working on, If I understood everything correctly they already started development on the new DLCs but they haven't put them on the roadmap to avoid them becoming "old news before they are even released" (which is ridiculous IMO but that's another discussion). At the end I was a bit cheeky, but I still want to be positive about the future of TSW and I hope HHL will be a one off, or a low-price offering (if they indeed charge a lower price). CRR was the most recent example of the heights they can reach, particularly in terms of rolling stock, and Adam's team is doing a fantastic job as well.

    I hope the absence of the "train building people" for the next releases is because they are involved in something else which might be nearing the light of day (steam, tilting trains, whatever). But if those things are not on the roadmap, means they are not working on it, so they must be all sitting there admiring their work on the F7 and BR101 :)
     
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