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Train Sim World 2 - Now All Summer Long

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Jul 21, 2021.

  1. Snek

    Snek Well-Known Member

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    The price is not too high, as I'm pretty sure nobody would have complained about it if it was like that from the start. The issue is just how this was communicated, together with removing the most interesting part of one of the routes.
     
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  2. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    It's sad how such decisions immediately make the community split into 'I love DTG no matter what they do' and 'I hate DTG no matter what they do'. Even though I'm very unhappy, I still don't think it should be that black and white, we're a community after all.
     
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  3. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    The old chestnut, " if you don't like it, don't buy it " mantra is really inappropriate. It's not as if you're in a supermarket with lots of choices for one product. There is only one Riesa- Dresden route offered for sale and , if you're one of the players who was really excited about this route, your disappointment would be palpable. If you don't buy it, you end up with nothing. If they had snipped 23 km from NEC, I'd be seriously upset.
    So, let's hear that empty phrase no more. I've been guilty myself in the past, but I will not use it again.
     
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  4. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    The price bothers me less (40 euros for three routes is still not a bad deal), but it does sound like I have to pay that before I can actually see the routes I'm buying. But what dissapoints me most is cutting the length of Riesa - Dresden, turning it into a boring route.

    The way it was communicated makes it all even worse...
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
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  5. UnlimitedMagic

    UnlimitedMagic Well-Known Member

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    Yes it’s like saying for example(Just an example)

    “BML is only to Gatwick”

    “You don’t like it don’t buy it”
     
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  6. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    I totally second that. I am not even really mad that things changed, that can happen (although some of the stuff was stated as "fixed"...). But this article, just beating around the bush, is a fist in the face. At least EXPLAIN why these things are changed now, why are routes cut short, the release spread out and the price increased (to be honest, I never really believed in the 3-routes-for-30€ deal, painful to be right there).
     
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  7. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    This question is easy to answer.

    Money!
     
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  8. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    DTG middle-finger right in our faces :)
     
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  9. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    I'm normally very moderate when it comes to this thing, I'm never really critical unless there is a glaring issue, but this has really ticked me off (to avoid warning for language), and this article was only around 2 hours ago.
     
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  10. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    I'm on the same page. Normally I can keep myself from swaying all the way to one side of a discussion, but this time I'm just plain unhappy about the decisions and the way they were announced.
     
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  11. Tahar_bej

    Tahar_bej Member

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    My main problem is that in the main article that was released today they didn’t mention that they reduced the length of the BRD. It is only mentioned in the updated FAQ and on the steam page. It gives me a feeling they wanted to hide it
     
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  12. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    That's actually a good point.
     
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  13. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Why DTG Members say always as Excuses if you don’t like it don’t Buy it? :D

    That’s not how the business work to make much money as they needed.

    I feel like they give the Customers the fault for critical the entire DLC how it was with the Great Western Legends or on Hamburg Lübeck with the wrong Dostos
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
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  14. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, they are definetely not being upfront about it. DTG has a lot to learn when it comes to trust apparently.
     
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  15. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Because it's the easy way out.
     
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  16. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Now that the routes are delayed, it does make me wonder if the quality suffers, considering DTG couldn't finish the job within the time they originally envisioned. It does explain the price increase, as delay means running out of budget...
     
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  17. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    A good Company should listen to the Feedback and to Criticism, and need to change the things Whats wrong and changing plans back how it was promised.
     
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  18. VictorHugoVS

    VictorHugoVS Member

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    If this becomes commonplace.
     
  19. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Community Manager Staff Member

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    The article was written to give you the information you need to know.

    There are many reasons as to why these decisions have been made, information that wouldn't be suitable in an article format. We have the forums and the stream to discuss these decisions further.

    The price update was reviewed after the we made the decision to introduce a season ticket (For anyone wondering this is not a subscription and we have no plans to remove the ability to purchase the season ticket)
    We do understand that the price has changed from what we originally stated, and many of you feel as though this is a broken promise. I can see where you are coming from however the price is still very good value for money. £34.99 for 3 routes is a fair price.

    We also discussed the staggering of the routes, this decision has been made to allow for that little bit of extra development time, we want to make sure we are delivering this update at a standard you can enjoy and are pleased with, the staggering of the routes gives us that little bit of extra time to focus on each individual route.

    Our aim to meet this standard has also impacted the Dresden route as you have noticed.
    This decision wasn't made lightly but it is why we have removed some of the branch lines. To avoid overreaching, and to avoid delivering a route that we felt would need to be rushed, we have revaluated what we are capable of delivering.

    For those of you asking "Does this mean we won't get Rush Hour in the Summer now?" You will still get the routes in the summer and you won't have to wait extraordinarily large gaps between releases. Again, this isn't what we originally said, and I can see why you are disappointed, particularly if you are looking forward to the content coming out last.

    At no point have we been trying to deceive you, but our plans did change. It's not unusual for plans to change during development, but I can understand why these changes have been met with so many comments.

    I can't overstate why it's so important that you keep letting us know how you feel. You are being heard.
     
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  20. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    It wasn't explicitly stated that Riesa - Dresden had been cut down in length. Without careful reading and a lot of knowledge before reading one wouldn't have known that, so that isn't important information to know?
     
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  21. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Community Manager Staff Member

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    It was written to make it clear what IS included, not to highlight what isn't. Although I do see why there could have been value in stating it more openly.
     
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  22. matjamca

    matjamca Well-Known Member

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    This bit…

    This decision wasn't made lightly but it is why we have removed some of the branch lines. To avoid overreaching, and to avoid delivering a route that we felt would need to be rushed, we have revaluated what we are capable of delivering.

    Who is rushing you? Not the community! The deadlines you have set are self-imposed by you.

    Deadlines can be extended (if you really wanted to do so, as you’ve just done anyway by splitting Rush Hour over three separate releases).

    DTG is effectively saying it’s happy to release a sub-par route to meet a deadline only it set. DTG knows the community were excited about those branch lines, or at least it should have been (if it reads our feedback), and yet it has still decided to release a poorer product by axing those branch lines. You are treating us with contempt.

    When routes cannot be interconnected, we stand no chance of ever seeing a decent length route. It’s getting tiresome.

    The answer is simple. The community has to show DTG this is not working and they have to vote with their wallets. Though I fear too few will do so.

    EDITED: Saying you’ve not take a decision lightly is no consolation whatsoever.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
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  23. MetrolinkF125#916

    MetrolinkF125#916 Well-Known Member

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    Ah Classic Dovetail Games, cut most of this and add a little bit of that, then charge more. I was planning on picking three routes up on release for the price of one, now I don't know what to do, purchase 2 routes for $60 or pay $40 for those two routes and one that is completely uninteresting to me and probably won't even touch.
     
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  24. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I really think that nearly all of the community would have preferred delays over considerably less content. The decision to cut Riesa - Dresden's length has made the entire route a lot les interesting. I really would prefer a delay, and I really hope that is still possible, though I fear the worst. Voting with my wallet by waiting until Christmas for a seal at least, or not purchasing at all at most will be what I'll be doing then.
     
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  25. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    Again the idea of rushing comes from the imposition of an artificial deadline that leads to trade-offs, put the Dresden route out last so people have 2 other things to play while you make the full shebang. It takes as long as it takes, it will be far better that way otherwise as stated above we will never progress beyond where we are now.
     
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  26. Tahar_bej

    Tahar_bej Member

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    But previously it was clearly stated that those branches will be included. So if somebody only reads the article and not the forums or the quetly updated FAQ he/she would still belive that the branches are still included. In my opinion if you state something that will be included and then you change the plans you should clearly state it in a article, not hide it.
     
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  27. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    But the Community don’t accept the Branches Cut, so you need to removed the Release Date, to make the branches to the route.
     
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  28. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Could you clarify whether you are working to Meteorological Summer, Astronomical Summer or Solar Summer?
    Also would that be Northern or Southern hemisphere summer?

    Don't like to take anything for granted and assume anything where DTG are concerned.
     
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  29. wombleway

    wombleway Well-Known Member

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    "I can afford to buy a new Xbox, but I can't afford a tenner to buy 3 routes..."

    If you're on Gamepass you can easily make up the difference for free using your Reward points! Even with the price increase, mine's going to cost me about £11 quid in total, which is bargain for three routes.
     
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  30. hypospray

    hypospray Member

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    Thats the exact reason why this whole communication from DTG upon Rush Hour smells.
    Promise first, adjusting later, backpaddle and confuse the community with weird explainations much later...

    I bet nobody would have been mad if it would just delayed a few weeks, month to deliver af full annouced Risa - Dresden route without cutting 2 branches out.
    Everytime we have been told that our feedback will be heard. This does not like that they do care at all about feedback.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
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  31. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I’ve read the small print now. How odd to drop such important things in there and link to it from a snazzy marketing article. The staggered releases and price increase aren’t the issue here, nor really is the fact that a route has been downgraded, it’s the way it’s communicated.

    A statement article about the changes first and then the new marketing. That’s how this should have been done. For some people it probably wouldn’t have made much difference but it makes a big difference in the general perception of DTG for some.

    Anyway, it looks like that has been acknowledged above by Nat. She’ll be happy to note I’ve put my popcorn away as this thread isn’t as entertaining when so many people are suitably and understandably unimpressed.
     
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  32. DeStijl

    DeStijl Well-Known Member

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    Only DTG would announce a delay, route shortening, and price increase in the same article ... and then respond to complaints about it by telling the community that they're being heard. :D
     
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  33. Train Sim 9723

    Train Sim 9723 Active Member

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    Question - is this the announcement that was meant to be un concerning to people who already have TSW2 or is that still to come?
     
  34. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Community Manager Staff Member

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    Yes - We still have more to share tomorrow.
     
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  35. jeremydunn8

    jeremydunn8 Well-Known Member

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    So I find it really easy to get mad at this but then I realized, if they’d announced rush hour this way from the beginning, most people wouldn’t complain. I’ll admit though, they really announced this like it was a good thing to charge $/£10 extra, delay the routes and remove some branches from the German one. Had they been more apologetic about it people might understand their reasoning.
     
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  36. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Though I agree with the rest of your comment, I would say that the downgrading of Riesa - Dresden by removing the two most important branches is actually a big issue for me. Though the communication made everything a lot worse than it could have been if DTG had been more upfront and would have supplied us with more insight into the decision making process.
     
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  37. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Will it be good news or bad news? Just to set expectations accordingly... ;)
     
  38. DeStijl

    DeStijl Well-Known Member

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    Tomorrow's announcement: another price increase (on top of the one announced today), Rush Hour is now only two routes, and the next gen versions are cancelled.
     
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  39. mrcharliemiggins2.0

    mrcharliemiggins2.0 Well-Known Member

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    So MORE development time and LESS route. That doesn't make sense.
     
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  40. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    That is how far out their original plans were...
     
  41. marcsharp2

    marcsharp2 Well-Known Member

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    I know what you mean, The way the 313 keeps being pushed back, I'm not expecting it until Christmas at the earliest... Even though it was announced last year.
     
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  42. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I'm a bit saddened by this announcment, I already have all trains that are going to be included in this pack, apart from the Class 387 and the MBTA F40PH (which I hope are different and improved compared to the CalTrain F40PH and Class 377 - which I own), and while 3 routes at 40€ is good, it's a bit disappointing seeing the price increase and the fact that Riesa-Dresden has less mileage. I'm all for a price increase if it results is better quality and better content, but buying the same trains over and over again is not better quality or better content, unless those "recycled" trains have been heavily modified to be up to date, it's still good value but I guess this purchase is not as guaranteed as it was a week ago, mainly for Riesa-Dresden...

    Also I think this isn't the announcement "not interesting for existing players" since the most affected people of a value/money drop are exactly people like me that already had all the ""new"" trains.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
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  43. hypospray

    hypospray Member

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    While this sounds rather funny, it would not surprise me that much :)
     
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  44. marcsharp2

    marcsharp2 Well-Known Member

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    Or all the extra AI services will only be included on Next Gen consoles.. And somehow that'll be revealed as a good thing.
     
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  45. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Yes it does. Developing the full route apparently took longer than expected, and since those developers do like to be paid for their jobs, it means developing the full route was considerably more expensive that anticipated. Cutting the route size decreases a part of increased the development costs and increasing the price tag is done to compensate for the other part of the increased development costs (due to postponing release).

    Trying to hide the bad news and publish some marketing story telling us how awesome everything is, is what upsets me most. I'd have preferred honesty.

    On the positive side, lets not forget Rush Hour originally didn't include the DB BR363, which is a nice little extra. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2021
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  46. thomastl59374

    thomastl59374 Active Member

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    As much as I understand,from DTGs point of view, that the bundle may turn out to be of greater value I was looking forward to rush hour and so, had put off buying any content in the recent Xbox sale in order to save money to get three routes for the price of one. I have to say since the announcement in the price increase it has put me off a tiny bit. I'm interested to hear the reasoning behind this late change and look forward to all the new updates that have been made. I think I'll still purchase the season pass for rush hour though.
     
  47. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    Yes I saved up for 7 months to get a series X.... but I'm not rich and it took me 3 months to save up enough for what I thought rush hour would be.

    We poor people have a thing called a budget? Where if you want something you have to save up for it so yeah 7 months of saving $30.00 off of a pay cheque for a Series X. And when you only make $800 a pay cheque there is not much flexibility. Considering rent is $1050 per month that really doesn't leave much for bills transportion, and groceries

    So before you knock what someone who you don't know spends his money on maybe you should consider they may be in a different situation than you.

    And it is not just a "tenner" its an extra $26.00 in Canada. So now I have to pay $65.00 instead of $39.00.

    So yeah I could pull that aside from another paycheck and not have dinner one night as a sacrifice if I really want to.

    But they had the price written down on the FAQ's and I thought they didn't announce anything that wasn't confirmed.

    As for reward points I only play TSW2 and I only play for maybe 4 hours a week. So not many reward points to be had. But that is a good thought.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
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  48. Agent Qracle RUS

    Agent Qracle RUS Well-Known Member

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    DTG is so desperate that they are already starting to stupidly raise prices in order to fill up on those fans who still believe in the future of TSW. Aphahah!
     
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  49. Dinger75

    Dinger75 Member

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    I want to congratulate DTG for being able to move the goalposts by about 23km... Yet still manage to score a belter of an own goal

    Now that takes some doing
     
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  50. frank351981

    frank351981 Member

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    shame the Riesa-Dresden route content is reduced. DTG had the chance to create a added value in comparison with their relative new TS-route. But so? Why should I buy it now? Because its TSW? No.
    Should be better DTG would announced their future projects at apoint where it finished/short before release. It will beware us and DTG for unexpected surprises and shitstorms
     
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