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Train Sim World 2: Raildriver Support

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Dec 17, 2020.

  1. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not going to do any defending. I know it's a beta. But they broke the alerter reset button months ago, it was working for most trains before they 'fixed' it. If you hover over the button in the advanced control it looks like it's only a spelling mistake, but it's been weeks. The map button has never worked on any train. So I'm getting a little impatient waiting for any updates. People keep asking for preserved collection to have support, but I'd really rather they fixed and improved the current support and got it to a better state. They were quick to ask for feed back but have neither acknowledged or done anything with it.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm pleased to have it even in it's current state. I just wish they'd start improving it.
     
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  2. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    No, you're quite entitled to vent your frustrations. I think we're all a little disappointed that progress is so slow in RD development, especially with the PC locos not coming on line yet. I have problems with some locos, e.g. the 395, and quite a few others are lacking one thing or another. And the map button? But I'm still optimistic that eventually it will all be put right. I personally will not buy any new loco that doesn't have compatibility with RD, although I don't think it will happen.
    We need to keep talking it up in the forum in a polite but insistent way to encourage DTG to prioritize RD development.
     
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  3. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    Got my RD today, let's go. Investment and trust ;-)
    Reading the last posts about the current flaws ... or beta state of the implementation my expectations are not sooo high.

    I hope the just printed labels and calibration tutorial from paul.pavlinovich help to get me started out less confused overall ...
     
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  4. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Even with the flaws its a game changer. The RD really adds to the immersion and fun.

    Paul
     
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  5. Cotax

    Cotax Active Member

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    Funny thing, i didn't like Class 08 BLU with keyboard. Shunting around got me annoyed. With RD, it's one of my favorite locos to drive. It's just so fast and easy to operate - im enjoying! Also 101 - just wow! If they put gears to automatic brake instead of range, it would be even better!

    Calibration is the key also - especially throttle and brakes. I always calibrate max throttle (or brakes) with a little "reserve" - so that notch 8 (or max throttle) works perfectly. I put it to the end, and then a little back. Also for IDLE - i don't put it in the "middle" section, instead i put it to the top (before the gap for middle section) and move it a little back. So that when i put the lever in the "middle" section, IDLE always works.

    TSW2 is the game that encouraged me to invest in RD and it's worth every penny (or € in my case) :D
     
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  6. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Definitely good ways to do it. Welcome to the RD club. It is a huge boost for immersion.

    Paul
     
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  7. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    I'm using electric and train brake more often independently with the 101 and RD, before, when pressing the keys it always moved both levers together.

    Regarding calibration: It's also important to what USB port you connect the device. My first try was horrible, even calibration. The game recognized inputs but I was not even touching the RD, totally wierd. I could only fix that by connecting to a different USB port. During recalibration I watched the "bars" and they were not "jumpy" anymore. Glad it was such an easy fix. You should have seen my face on my first try spawning in a loco and all the levers move up and down and the wipers go on and off and light bright and dim with me holding the hands up not touching the RD :D

    Since then, +100 immersion. The 101 has great sounds, the game runs perfectly smooth since the last ini changes and now I hope that more locos get the RD support :)
     
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  8. Sintbert

    Sintbert Well-Known Member

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    I have the weird problem that the three big handles have a wide break between stepping up and stepping down the control. And on some locos i cant get to all steps.

    Example the driving-handle on all the GP-Locos

    ¦¦ E-Brake range..
    --|| - Off
    --|| - Off
    || - down to step1
    || - down to step3
    || - down to step5
    ||
    ||
    || - up to step1
    || - up to step3
    || - up to step5
    || - up to step8
    --

    Sometimes it randomly changes over to even steps, then i cant get in to the uneven steps without going to off first.
    This is specially troubling when driving on grades, since most times i cant get into the optimal step.
    Anyone else having this issue?
     
  9. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    I've never encountered that before. I guess it could happen either with a bad connection to the port or maybe too new a port - the RD is USB 1.0 about as old as it gets!!

    Paul
     
  10. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    This is usually a calibration issue although hyperlord had an interesting observation about particular USB port causing an issue just above this one. When calibrating always wait a little while after moving before pressing the button to get the most accurate reading. The RailDriver is all analogue pots driving digital inputs and the digitisation of the analogue representation could be better. I get the impression that DoveTail are experimenting because different locomotives behave quite differently. Some have very food fidelity to the controls and others aren't so great.

    Note there should be a big break in the throttle action in the centre as its a dead spot for dynamic break setup.

    Have a look at my calibration video which you might find helpful.

    Paul
     
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  11. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    You know I never thought about that. I guess it was never updated. I'm sure mine is on a USB 3.0. Move it to a 2.0?
    Thanks for the video. I'll recalibrate, using those tips.
    And thanks again for the strips. They fit perfectly on the top edge of the RD.
     
  12. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    Mine works with USB 3 and behaves jumpy on USB 2.

    Did anyone dare to look into the raildriver.ini already?
     
  13. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I 've always wondered instead of DTG trying to do each Loco separately why not use PI's software so we can mod it ourselves. How does it work with TS1? I get the feeling DTG are trying to fob us off all the time and now are trying to 'forget' RD is a thing, I hope not as RD is brilliant when working, the class 101 is cool to drive with the RD.
     
  14. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    PI’s software is really sub-par, I use the Cobra One driver and it is pretty good, easy to customize and would be great to get that level of functionalist for RD into TSW2.
     
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  15. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    That one sounds good but even the PI software would be an improvement on what we got now no?
     
  16. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    Personally I’m happy for TSW2 to have native support. It’s always a pain in TS2021 to make sure you start the interface first.

    When DTG do add more function then the Cobra one interface is the one to aspire to. The configuration is very flexible. There are very few trains I cannot get to work. PI’s own interface is quite bad. I cannot get a lot of my trains to work with it. It used to be a lot better and you could write vb script for it, but they dumbed it down. I completely abandoned it.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
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  17. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Wasn’t impressed with the PI software to be honest.
     
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  18. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Ah right, so what is the Cobra One compatible with at the moment?
     
  19. jayzhead

    jayzhead Active Member

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    In TS classic? Anything, if you take the time to map the controls properly. However that is not relevant to TSW, and this is a TSW forum. There is plenty of documentation about using cobraone's tool for TS.

    No doubt, native is the way to go. If the old trainsim had a proper native interface plugin, there would be no need for cobraone's program, I'm sure he only made it because the support from the game itself was always quite basic and didn't work most of the time with custom-scripted locos, which over time became most locos. But because of the flexible plugin system supported by trainsim - (ahem, see "modding support") utilities like cobraone's could be created to interface between the sim and the raildriver. So at least the old TS had a way for the community to step in and fill the gaps. TSW, of course, being devoid of any modding support, has no such avenue. And IMO releasing a train simulator without controller support is akin to a flight simulator or driving simulator being released without controller support; which when you think about it, is not very sim-like. And now they seem to be getting to it, three years late and progressing slow as molasses ;) But you know... it is what it is
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2021
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  20. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    There is supposedly external controller functionality coming to TSW2 from what was said in the streams. RD is part of that delivery. I'd be guessing RD uses it as its speed display works for non RD locomotives.

    Paul
     
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  21. kosti.nuuja

    kosti.nuuja Well-Known Member

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    Does Hamburg - Lübeck add RD support for Dostos?
     
  22. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    They have said that all new routes will come with raildriver support.
     
  23. Sintbert

    Sintbert Well-Known Member

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    The M7 on LIRR now works, and its pretty good.. except:

    1. The ALERT button has a 1 second delay after pressing it on the Raildriver, bevor the alerter in the cab gets pushed. That is way to much. I have pressed it 2-3 times in panic that it didn't work bevor it starts to react. That's a perfect example on how not to do inputs.

    2. The button to charge the brakes gets released after 2-3 seconds without releasing the button on the raildriver. I then have to release the button and press it again. Its a simple button...
     
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  24. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    You mean "after usage" or during usage?
     
  25. Cotax

    Cotax Active Member

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    I move it to the side, along with mouse and mousepad. Need those two for camera changes + some buttons i still prefer to press on keyboard :)
     

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  26. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Here is my setup when not using the raildriver I can tuck out the way.

    upload_2021-5-12_7-55-10.png
     
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  27. Sintbert

    Sintbert Well-Known Member

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    I have just driven a first few rounds with the DB BR112 on Hamburg-Lübeck.

    Finally the alerter button works again for SIFA and PZB, that's great.
    Not so great is the throttle as cruise control. Its not precise enough, i have a hard time setting it to the exact speed. It always jumps around for 20-30km/h at a time, even with minimal movement. Anyone else having this problem or is my unit just ***?
     
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  28. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    Hi Sintbert
    I do observe a similar behaviour with the DB BR112 power throttle. but I only did 2 runs yesterday (failed both miserably because I overestimated the braking power all the time). It's a little bit like with the Clinchfield locos you mentioned earlier.
    As a workaround I found moving the throttle back to neutral (or where E-Brake would begin) and then again try to set the desired speed. I move the throttle then veeeeery gentle with just one finger. Most of the time this behaviour only happens on occasion for me...if the stepping is "off" again ... repeat.

    Maybe someone else has similar experiences?
     
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  29. Cotax

    Cotax Active Member

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    I have the exact problem. Its hard to set it to 40kmh, 100kmh.. Its just jumping around. I have to fiddle the throttle to get it right. It ruins the loco for me. :| AFB with brake lever is much more precise.
     
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  30. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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  31. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    Regarding the Throttle for the 112. I have the same thing. Jumps around all over the place. For me it always jumps from 10% to 40% and I have to try many times to get somewhere in between. It’s so bad I had to use keyboard to avoid speeding.

    Rivets implementation on Arosa had similar issues for me so maybe there is an issue here with throttles that require and rely on specific notches.
     
  32. Cotax

    Cotax Active Member

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    I think the main problem is Raildriver throttle, because it has very low range for throttle and the input is not so smooth. I've checked the axis in calibration and slowly moved throttle from idle do 100% throttle and the axis is "jumping".

    On 387 or 465 it's not a problem (because there are only 4 levels of throttle), on SD40 / Gp38 it becomes a little tricky to hit the notches, but on 112 it's just .. not OK.

    One possible "fix" would be, if they make points on the specific throttle axis movements, that represents the most casual speed limit on this route (10,20,40,60,80,100,120,140,160), maybe then it would be easier. But this is still not a great solution. I don't think there is solution at all to be honest. It's frustrating to drive right now, beacuse i become nervous on every speed change if i will hit the throttle right, and then i fiddle with it up and down with a grumpy face :D
     
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  33. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    I'm thinking about a "precision-slider"-setting so that the Wertebereich (range of values?) is more flexible and can be adjusted to the user's (or route's) specific needs. Like a "deadzone"-slider for Controllers. I think this could mitiage those precision-jumping effects.

    It's cool that I don't have to calibrate RD seperately for every loco but maybe changing that could also be a solution?

    It's EXACTLY the same with me :)
     
  34. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    I've used the DB BR182 MRCE 5 so far, and just gave the 112 a go now. Wow I see what you mean. It seems excessive - I think they need some control over the travel - they're using it like its linear and it isn't. No pot is linear. In the 182 they're using the up and down buttons next to the game pad controls.

    The other thing I notice in the 112 is my frame rate is abysmal. I normally sit on a steady (limited) 60fps but with this I get 43 when moving and 50 when stopped. There's something wrong there.

    ps. its hard to type here while SIFA is going off lol.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2021
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  35. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    I think it may be the way that TSW is reading it more than a problem with the Raildriver.

    On TS2021 (Cobra One interface). My levers are nice and smooth, with only occasional jumps. It’s only really TSW I have the issue with.
     
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  36. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    That is the software smoothing the POT. I've read the data directly from Raildriver its jumpy as and definitely not linear travel. Games seem to just cope with it. TSW2 isn't there yet but I'm hopeful it will be since Matt is a RD user so there is some push from the inside.

    Paul
     
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  37. blaze111csx

    blaze111csx Well-Known Member

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    alerter button works now. just takes a few seconds to respond.
     
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  38. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, is that in all locos or just the most recent updates blaze111csx ?
     
  39. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    Still getting used to using the Rail driver but, for me, a combination of it, mouse and keyboard have worked best.
     
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  40. paul.pavlinovich

    paul.pavlinovich Well-Known Member

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    Yes unfortunately you do still need the other devices as well. Hopefully that will change for all but the most unusual things.
     
  41. blaze111csx

    blaze111csx Well-Known Member

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    all raildriver supported locos I think. personally I discovered it on the GP38-2. I checked all the other locos on SPG and it works fine, just takes 1 second for it to recognize you did it. and it doesn't show that the control has been moved like the throttle and stuff does on the right hand side of the screen. IDK about anything British or German
     
  42. jayzhead

    jayzhead Active Member

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    That is equal to not working. A time-critical safety system "just taking a few seconds to respond" might as well be a year to respond. ATC on American trains might be somewhat forgiving, but PZB dumps you into emergency if you didn't press it the moment you passed the magnet. Also, how hard is it to make a button work the moment you press it? The horn doesn't have a 3 second delay, does it?
     
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  43. jayzhead

    jayzhead Active Member

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    I've been testing all the new raildriver stuff that was released. I'd really love to have a thread with the person/people who are responsible for mapping the RD to the various DLCs. I'd love to know what was going through their heads, for example, when they decided that for the Hamburg-Lubeck 112 and dostox cab car they will not map the PZB buttons to the ones that it was mapped onto on ALL OTHER GERMAN LOCOS that have RD support up to that point, but move it four buttons over. Because apparently it wasn't hard enough to find the acknowledge button when it was three from the edge, now it is 7 from the edge. And all my efforts in painting the third button on the bottom row bright red so that I can find it easily when PZB needs to be acknowledged went up in smoke. Also, now the alerter button, apart from being useless because it has a random few second delay, also triggers ALL safety buttons at once - both sifa and PZB in the case of german trains. Gee, thanks for that, DTG. Apparently, they decided we raildriver users are dumber than keyboard users, we need one button for everything, because we cannot figure out separate buttons for SIFA and PZB. So every time I clear SIFA I have to listen to the shrieking buzzer of the PZB, which is especially egregious in the cab car.
    The LIRR situation is even worse. On the one hand, it is AWESOME to finally have RD support for it at all - I now play LIRR again after abandoning it completely for months. But the "day 1 patch" they released to fix the stupid PIS screens completely broke the mapping on the M3, the alerter button now does completely nothing (also keyboard Q for some reason operates the deadman pedal instead of the acknowledge lever, so you can't shut it up even with the keyboard) and the top-row blue button that is labled "Alterter" in the settings does operate the correct lever - but also turns off the ATC and signaling master shutters, turning off all safety systems. WTF. It's like every "fix" they release is making things worse.

    I've officially given up on waiting for them to implement decent mapping for RD buttons, or to implement user mapping - who knows how many months or years that will take. I've ordered a four-button programmable usb keystrip from ebay, I'm just going to glue it to my raildriver and map it's buttons to q, delete, end and pgdn. That will at least give me reliable, consistent safety systems buttons that I can trust while playing. But seriously, DTG, how hard is it to make a button correspond to a function?! You know, like it does on the keyboard. And make it consistent. I'd love to know what the hang up is, that we cannot get a working AWS/SIFA/Alerter button for going on three months now. :mad:
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2021
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  44. raretrack

    raretrack Active Member

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    I'm glad it's not just me. That's been driving me up the wall!
     
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  45. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    I ranted on this mapping stuff, too. Since I have a RD I don't activate SiFa anymore, just PZB.
    Did you try to pass a 2000Hz magnet with BF40 already? Roleplay the rules (press and hold until next signal) ... you can't keep it pressed/toggled (like sand).
    Or the Bremschlüssel ... you can turn it on but not off anymore.

    I created an universal button legend template for all the German locos and could throw it away already. PZB ack is now the blank button between toggling lights.

    But ... BETA, okay okay I don't go totally bonkers and wait/hope for the ability to map it myself one day. The fun I have with the implementation already on the other hand makes the waiting time less painful ;-)
     
  46. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    How does the alerter button behave for UK Loco's and AWS?
     
  47. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    Just had that situation with the MRCE 182 and now I could press and hold PZB override
     
  48. jayzhead

    jayzhead Active Member

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    It triggers both the AWS button and DSD pedal, With a random delay that can be half a second or a couple of seconds in some cases. Because you know, the one time-critical function needs to have a random delay, just to make you piss your pants and bash the button five more times before it presses six times in succession. That's considered a feature by DTG apparently. Makes it more challenging :)
     
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  49. jayzhead

    jayzhead Active Member

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    Oh yeah, also yesterday after writing my post I had a run with the 182 and discovered that in that one they moved the PZB button trio to 6 from the left, rather than 7. So we actually have three different mappings for PZB on german locos, not two. Great. It wasn't confusing enough with two.
     
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  50. Cotax

    Cotax Active Member

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    Guys good news - the throttle on 112 is fixed. With today's update they moved it to independent brake lever - so you can set the throttle very smooth and precise to the wanted speed limit. Very happy. Thanks DTG for listening :)
     
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